FOF2k4: Rookie Holdouts

Castlerock · 12-10-2003, 08:05 PM

I just finished a rookie draft. I had one pick in each round (1-7). The ONLY player that is not holding out on me is my 5th round pick. I love the holdout feature but damn... Almost my entire draft class won't sign?

Is this common? I offered mostly short-term, short-money and a couple longer-term, short money.

FBPro · 12-10-2003, 08:23 PM

No, really seems to vary from year to year. Most years the most I have is 1 and often none.

Ben E Lou · 12-10-2003, 08:38 PM

I have gotten the impression that if your 1st-round draft choice holds out, it increases the likelihood that your others will hold out.

FBPro · 12-10-2003, 08:40 PM

I haven't noticed that but I haven't really been looking either.

nfgrawker22 · 12-10-2003, 09:18 PM

never had a rookie holdout all year...yet I always let the scout deal with rookies...

Peregrine · 12-10-2003, 09:56 PM

I have had two rookies, both first round picks, in consecutive years, hold out all year. This was with me offering the maximum option, they just wouldn't take it.

SackAttack · 12-10-2003, 10:36 PM

I've gotten to the point where I start with the 7th round picks, and sign my way upwards. don't know if it actually makes a difference as far as holdouts go, but it SEEMS to.

GabeRivers · 12-10-2003, 11:20 PM

Gotta agree with SackAttack, and out of frustration, I ran a save/re-load test on this. It definitely helps to start at the bottom and work up. There can still be holdouts, but there are less.

DolphinFan1 · 12-10-2003, 11:53 PM

Did you know that if you click on a player's agent he has a rating on negotiations? That will help on which offer to use in signing rookies.

Coffee Warlord · 12-10-2003, 11:57 PM

I haven't seen that (the agent rating) make like ANY difference in rookie contracts, personally.

Aside from the first time I've ever played, I've never had a 1st round pick accept the long term deal. Ever.

Maybe I'll run a few tests on draft signees.

Darkiller · 12-11-2003, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SackAttack
I've gotten to the point where I start with the 7th round picks, and sign my way upwards. don't know if it actually makes a difference as far as holdouts go, but it SEEMS to.

I do that too.
All is want is the rookies to be in training camp ready to learn and progress. So the more players I have in camp right away, the better.
That's why I begin my the "easiest" ones (late rounders) and then making my way upward.

Honolulu Blue · 12-11-2003, 05:44 AM

In my career I've had over 100 draft picks. I think there was ONE that I didn't get signed before training camp - and he signed immediately after. There was one I never did sign because he had busted so horribly, and one I wish I didn't sign for the same reason.

Anyway, here's how I've done it:

1) I let the assistants handle signings through late free agency. They usually do a good job but leave one or two left.

2) Then I switch the button to let me take over the signings.

3) 1st and 2nd rounders usually are offered the short years, high money offer on the far right. Other picks are offered the biggest money offer on the board (2nd from the left?).

It's a pain to have to switch that button every year, but I think the results are worth it. Draft picks are very important to me and it's important to get them as much development time as possible to maximize their value.

Peregrine · 12-11-2003, 06:46 AM

One thing that was funny to see was my one first rounder that held out the entire year, was drafted in the first round again the next year, and turned out to be a complete bust!

I'm going to try to working from the bottom thing though.

Castlerock · 12-11-2003, 08:58 AM

I managed to get all but my 1st rounder signed by the start of pre-season. He signed part-way through. For the short-years, big-money option.

I only did that because last years number one pick held out all year.

cthomer5000 · 12-11-2003, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coffee Warlord
I haven't seen that (the agent rating) make like ANY difference

I find this to be the exact opposite of my experiences. I can look at the agent rating, and predict with 90% accuracy which deal the rookie will take on the first try.

Plus, you get two cracks at it before training camp, so it's not that bad.

And I do start at the 7th round and work my way up.

I've probably had only 3 players go to training camp without a contract in 23 years. And all of those have signed in the first week of the preseason.

When in doubt, offer option 4.

DolphinFan1 · 12-11-2003, 10:19 AM

I agree with CThomer,

I offer option 4 when I have a stubborn negotiator for an agent. I have only had one holdout but signed him after training camp.

Wasabiak · 12-11-2003, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
I have gotten the impression that if your 1st-round draft choice holds out, it increases the likelihood that your others will hold out.

I do what cthomer does, and start with the last round pick and work my way up. I have never seen the late round guys not sign.

MrBug708 · 12-11-2003, 10:41 AM

If you offer the bottom contract offer, he'll almost always sign

JonInMiddleGA · 12-11-2003, 10:45 AM

Like a lot of others here, I think there's definitely:

a) a hit & miss element of this. I've had 6 of 7 holdout one year & then several years with 1 holdout or 0 holdouts.

and

b) Agent negotiation ratings seem to be a pretty good predictor of reaction to offers. That said, I wonder if anyone has drawn any conclusions about the effect of your history with a particular agent as well as what impact him having multiple players on your team already actually has.

As an aside, am I the only person who actively avoids a particular agent when drafting? Early in my career I ran across one agent who seemed to give me fits (like a 97 negotiation). Holdouts, $$$ deals, the whole bit. When I see his name on a rookie, I just keep right on clicking through, I won't even touch 'em.

SegRat · 12-11-2003, 11:47 AM

I always try to look at the guys signed before and after my picks. I see what the other guys signed for, then based on that I look at the options to sign him. To me it is like a slotted system. This has worked very well for me. I have only had one hold out. The reason for that was because the guys before and after him had not signed their contracts.

Erithtotl · 12-11-2003, 12:14 PM

I also find that the agent rating makes NO difference on 1st round picks. I once had a guy with a SIX rating in negotiations, and I offered the 1st rounder the long term, higher paying contract and he refused. I have NEVER seen a first rounder in the top 15 picks accpet ANYTHING but the short term, high paying contract.

After the 2nd round I find you can have some wiggle room, but the 1st rounders will only accept the most favorable short-term deal in my expeirence, reguardless of agent, and I've played about 35 seasons in two seperate leagues.

OldGiants · 12-11-2003, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Erithtotl
I also find that the agent rating makes NO difference on 1st round picks. I once had a guy with a SIX rating in negotiations, and I offered the 1st rounder the long term, higher paying contract and he refused. I have NEVER seen a first rounder in the top 15 picks accpet ANYTHING but the short term, high paying contract.

After the 2nd round I find you can have some wiggle room, but the 1st rounders will only accept the most favorable short-term deal in my expeirence, reguardless of agent, and I've played about 35 seasons in two seperate leagues.

this is what I've found, too. I've run save and reload tests, and they always take the short, high pay option. I don't even bother with anything else until the 3rd round.

I also start out with 7th round, a habit from earlier versions of FOF.

12-10-2003, 08:23 PM	#2
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	No, really seems to vary from year to year. Most years the most I have is 1 and often none. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025 Last edited by FBPro : 12-10-2003 at 08:24 PM.

12-10-2003, 08:38 PM	#3
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	I have gotten the impression that if your 1st-round draft choice holds out, it increases the likelihood that your others will hold out. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

12-10-2003, 08:40 PM	#4
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	I haven't noticed that but I haven't really been looking either. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

12-10-2003, 09:18 PM	#5
nfgrawker22 n00b Join Date: Dec 2002	never had a rookie holdout all year...yet I always let the scout deal with rookies... __________________ Tampa bay buccaneers of the DHMFL

12-10-2003, 11:53 PM	#9
DolphinFan1 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Connecticut	Did you know that if you click on a player's agent he has a rating on negotiations? That will help on which offer to use in signing rookies. __________________ GM of the Milwaukee Muscle Men of the ZFL. The 1st team in ZFL history to have a perfect losing season. I am on a quest to show that the Dolphins can win the Super Bowl. Or should I say Front Office Bowl, with FOF2K7. The revival of an old favorite, FOFC Wrestling Dynasty

12-10-2003, 09:56 PM	#6
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	I have had two rookies, both first round picks, in consecutive years, hold out all year. This was with me offering the maximum option, they just wouldn't take it.

12-10-2003, 10:36 PM	#7
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	I've gotten to the point where I start with the 7th round picks, and sign my way upwards. don't know if it actually makes a difference as far as holdouts go, but it SEEMS to.

12-10-2003, 11:20 PM	#8
GabeRivers n00b Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Texas, USA	Gotta agree with SackAttack, and out of frustration, I ran a save/re-load test on this. It definitely helps to start at the bottom and work up. There can still be holdouts, but there are less.

12-10-2003, 11:57 PM	#10
Coffee Warlord Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	I haven't seen that (the agent rating) make like ANY difference in rookie contracts, personally. Aside from the first time I've ever played, I've never had a 1st round pick accept the long term deal. Ever. Maybe I'll run a few tests on draft signees.

12-11-2003, 05:44 AM	#12
Honolulu Blue Dynasty Boy Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Michigan	In my career I've had over 100 draft picks. I think there was ONE that I didn't get signed before training camp - and he signed immediately after. There was one I never did sign because he had busted so horribly, and one I wish I didn't sign for the same reason. Anyway, here's how I've done it: 1) I let the assistants handle signings through late free agency. They usually do a good job but leave one or two left. 2) Then I switch the button to let me take over the signings. 3) 1st and 2nd rounders usually are offered the short years, high money offer on the far right. Other picks are offered the biggest money offer on the board (2nd from the left?). It's a pain to have to switch that button every year, but I think the results are worth it. Draft picks are very important to me and it's important to get them as much development time as possible to maximize their value. Last edited by Honolulu Blue : 12-11-2003 at 09:43 AM.

12-11-2003, 06:46 AM	#13
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	One thing that was funny to see was my one first rounder that held out the entire year, was drafted in the first round again the next year, and turned out to be a complete bust! I'm going to try to working from the bottom thing though.

12-11-2003, 08:58 AM	#14
Castlerock High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, Ma	I managed to get all but my 1st rounder signed by the start of pre-season. He signed part-way through. For the short-years, big-money option. I only did that because last years number one pick held out all year.

12-11-2003, 10:19 AM	#16
DolphinFan1 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Connecticut	I agree with CThomer, I offer option 4 when I have a stubborn negotiator for an agent. I have only had one holdout but signed him after training camp. __________________ GM of the Milwaukee Muscle Men of the ZFL. The 1st team in ZFL history to have a perfect losing season. I am on a quest to show that the Dolphins can win the Super Bowl. Or should I say Front Office Bowl, with FOF2K7. The revival of an old favorite, FOFC Wrestling Dynasty

12-11-2003, 10:41 AM	#18
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	If you offer the bottom contract offer, he'll almost always sign

12-11-2003, 10:45 AM	#19
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Like a lot of others here, I think there's definitely: a) a hit & miss element of this. I've had 6 of 7 holdout one year & then several years with 1 holdout or 0 holdouts. and b) Agent negotiation ratings seem to be a pretty good predictor of reaction to offers. That said, I wonder if anyone has drawn any conclusions about the effect of your history with a particular agent as well as what impact him having multiple players on your team already actually has. As an aside, am I the only person who actively avoids a particular agent when drafting? Early in my career I ran across one agent who seemed to give me fits (like a 97 negotiation). Holdouts, $$$ deals, the whole bit. When I see his name on a rookie, I just keep right on clicking through, I won't even touch 'em. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

12-11-2003, 11:47 AM	#20
SegRat High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Oshkosh, WI	I always try to look at the guys signed before and after my picks. I see what the other guys signed for, then based on that I look at the options to sign him. To me it is like a slotted system. This has worked very well for me. I have only had one hold out. The reason for that was because the guys before and after him had not signed their contracts. __________________ USFL: Charlotte Fightn' Squirrels

12-11-2003, 12:14 PM	#21
Erithtotl n00b Join Date: Oct 2002	I also find that the agent rating makes NO difference on 1st round picks. I once had a guy with a SIX rating in negotiations, and I offered the 1st rounder the long term, higher paying contract and he refused. I have NEVER seen a first rounder in the top 15 picks accpet ANYTHING but the short term, high paying contract. After the 2nd round I find you can have some wiggle room, but the 1st rounders will only accept the most favorable short-term deal in my expeirence, reguardless of agent, and I've played about 35 seasons in two seperate leagues.

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