(Hold Em) Help me sleep.. did I play this right?

[SirFozzie]

Transcript for game #203299378 requested by
SirFozzie([email protected])
*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #203299378: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) -
2003/12/09 - 05:36:52 (ET)
Table 'Glaukos' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: SirFozzie ($22.90 in chips)
Seat 2: No-Limit Lee ($8.60 in chips)
Seat 4: jcreck ($28.80 in chips)
Seat 5: GILLY93 ($35.80 in chips)
Seat 8: Master Kong ($14.65 in chips)
Seat 9: billbinlv ($32.45 in chips)
SirFozzie: posts small blind $0.10
No-Limit Lee: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SirFozzie [Qs Ks]
jcreck: calls $0.25
GILLY93: calls $0.25
Master Kong: calls $0.25
billbinlv: raises $1 to $1.25
SirFozzie: calls $1.15
No-Limit Lee: calls $1
jcreck: folds
GILLY93: calls $1
Master Kong: folds
*** FLOP *** [5d 5s 3s]
SirFozzie: bets $1.25
No-Limit Lee: folds
GILLY93: calls $1.25
billbinlv: calls $1.25
*** TURN *** [5d 5s 3s] [7s]
SirFozzie: bets $5
GILLY93: raises $5 to $10
billbinlv: folds
SirFozzie: raises $10.40 to $20.40 and is all-in
GILLY93: calls $10.40
*** RIVER *** [5d 5s 3s 7s] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SirFozzie: shows [Qs Ks] (a flush, King high)
GILLY93: shows [5h Ts] (a full house, Fives full of Tens)
GILLY93 collected $47.60 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $50.05 | Rake $2.45
Board [5d 5s 3s 7s Th]
Seat 1: SirFozzie (small blind) showed [Qs Ks] and lost with a flush,
King high
Seat 2: No-Limit Lee (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: jcreck folded before Flop
Seat 5: GILLY93 showed [5h Ts] and won ($47.60) with a full house,
Fives full of Tens
Seat 8: Master Kong folded before Flop
Seat 9: billbinlv (button) folded on the Turn

[Chappy]

That's just a case of some bad luck. He was trying to give his money away. Calling with trip when he had to know you had a flush. Guess that's why the call it gambling.

[QuikSand]

Tough beat. On the raise, I was much more worried that you'd hit the ace than a boat.

[MJ4H]

What speaks to me about the hand is not whether you played correctly or incorrectly but that your opponent misplayed his hand horribly. I think I would have been a bit less aggressive than you were after your flush was made since the board was paired. I don't think I hate the way you played it though. I might have done it the same way. Nice river for the chump, just gotta move on, I guess.

EDIT - forgot to mention:
You can console yourself with knowing you had the best hand when the chips went in.

[AnalBumCover]

Yeah... bad beat. If the blind limits were higher, GILLY93 would likely have folded 5To on the pre-flop.

[Bee]

Originally posted by AnalBumCover
Yeah... bad beat. If the blind limits were higher, GILLY93 would likely have folded 5To on the pre-flop.

I doubt it, the guy freaking called a raise pre-flop with 5To.

[primelord]

Originally posted by AnalBumCover
Yeah... bad beat. If the blind limits were higher, GILLY93 would likely have folded 5To on the pre-flop.

I can't believe he called a pre-flop raise with that crap hand. That is a real tough beat because up until the river that was exactly what you want to have happen. A guy playing hand he should never been in hits a flop that he can't get away from and you get paid.

I don't know if the guy played his hand THAT poorly after the flop. It's very common for people at the lower limits to play the hand very strongly if they made the second pair otehr than what was paired on the board, so he may have thought just the trips were good enough to win and he had 11 outs to making a boat or four of a kind. The call was certainly bad, but not nearly as bad as just playing the hand pre-flop in the first place.

SirFozzie just make sure you remember his name and look for him next time you play. A guy that plays 5-10o is a guy you want sitting at your table.

[Bee]

Originally posted by primelord
SirFozzie just make sure you remember his name and look for him next time you play. A guy that plays 5-10o is a guy you want sitting at your table.

Definitely. And you can give us his name too if you want to be a good board member.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Bee
Definitely. And you can give us his name too if you want to be a good board member.

GILLY93, right there in the transcript. I'll be sure to "sit down" If I stumble across him.

[MJ4H]

Hehehe all very true. You can even think of that pot as a loan that he will eventually pay back

[Bee]

Originally posted by MattJones4Heisman
Hehehe all very true. You can even think of that pot as a loan that he will eventually pay back

with interest...

[QuikSand]

But this is what you get with maniacs/action junkies... you will lose some hands that you shouldn't, because they play unpredictable hands and occasionally get saved by pure dumb luck (like here). Much more often than not, though, he won't catch his ten on the river, and you'll get all his money. C'est la guerre.

[Bonegavel]

I'm noticing an interesting dynamic with all the talk about hold 'em and players.

You get the hardcore "I know how to play" people pissed at the "I'll call every flop because it is only .25" because it throws the game "out of whack." While I understand this (i play dealer's choice poker on a regular basis and at .05, .10, .25, some retards go all the way with a pair of 2s) it should just be looked at as another aspect of play.

I'm not chastising anyone, but I think it is interesting to see the hardcore players get upset when somebody doesn't play the way they think they should play. After all, if the nut that rarely folds wins a lot, then maybe others should think about switching their style. Otherwise, they will just "all-in" themselves out of contention early and won't be an issue later on.

Just my blind .02

[Bonegavel]

dola,

don't get me wrong, I understand that there is a cerrtain "etiquette and protocol" that is "the way to play" by the people that play hold 'em for a living and make lots of money by doing it this way, but, at the same time, it is interesting to me to see what happens when monkey-wrenches are thrown into closed systems and how the participants react.

[Bonegavel]

with that said, you made the right move and he got lucky.

[Bee]

It has nothing to do with "etiquette or protocol", it has to do with odds of winning. The majority of the time someone playing like GILLY93 did will lose. I don't think anyone is upset about people playing this style, but when someone hits a really long shot it's normal to be annoyed when it goes against you.

[Malificent]

I don't think the professionals get pissed - they'll win more money over the long haul off people like this. They have a vested interest in staying calm and keeping them at the table. It's the "semi-professionals" that get pissed. The decent players who play on an irregular basis.

I think Sklansky in his tournament book likens the all-in most of the time to a boxing match where you're the clear underdog. You won't last 15 rounds with your opponent, so you basically have to go for the knockout. I don't think this sort of strategy can be sustained for a long time, but you could probably do ok with it for a while, especially if you're playing against good, more conservative players who aren't going to risk large stacks on close gambles.

[MJ4H]

Poker is a strange game because in the short term, the worst plays possible can be rewarded very heavily. It's possible to do exactly the wrong thing on every turn and still win an enormous pot. It's sort of the "why must I lose to this idiot" thing. He did everything wrong and won the pot. The thing about poker is that its not measured in the short-term. But in the heat of the moment, thats the easiest thing to see. And I think all my opponents should definitely start playing like GILLY so I liked that part of your advice

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
dola,

don't get me wrong, I understand that there is a cerrtain "etiquette and protocol" that is "the way to play" by the people that play hold 'em for a living and make lots of money by doing it this way, but, at the same time, it is interesting to me to see what happens when monkey-wrenches are thrown into closed systems and how the participants react.

I think you misread everyones reaction here.

While SirFozzie is pissed he lost the hand, poker players as a whole rejoice at hands like the one described above.

The guy was like a 8% chance to beat him, yet made the (wrong) decision to go all-in. SirFozzie loses in the short-term, but all above-average players gain in the long run.

[Bonegavel]

Understood. Like I said, I wasn't calling anyone out, or making "fucking elists" comments.

I love watching the WSOP on ESPN and it would be nice if they would devote an entire channel to it.

[Bonegavel]

Well, I guess I just was curious because he obviously made the right choice, but needed clarification to sleep.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
Well, I guess I just was curious because he obviously made the right choice, but needed clarification to sleep.

Well, he didn't necessarily know that he had made the right decision until the guy showed his cards. He could have been up against AXs (Ace of spades, any other spade) and been beat already. In fact looking back, thats what I would have expected to see.

In turns out Fozzie lucked out/read the guy correctly as not having the Ace-high flush, but then just got an incredibly bad bit of luck on the river. Only 4 out of 46 possible cards would have helped out his opponent, and 1 of them came.

Knowing the cards we know he made the right play though, he'd win that hand 9 out of 10 times.

[sabotai]

Bone, I see what you described a lot at the tables. Everytime something happens to really annoy me, like losing the kind of hand Fozzie had, I just go "nh" and wait for the next hand to be dealt.

But a lot, I'll see "How do you play that hand?" "OMG" "***ing river!" "Lucky ***hole"

Yes, all of that from the same guy after a hand he lost. Get over it. It's going to happen. It's ok to be annoyed or mad when it does, but don't act like it was the worst thing ever. It's going to happen every now and then. If you can't handle it when it does, don't play.

[Bee]

I've seen some of the professionals get upset as well. Maybe not to the extreme of some of the good amateur players, but I've seen them walk away without shaking hands, making "questionable" comments after the hand, etc.

[Bonegavel]

I guess what kind of prompted my participation in this thread is from my own experience. At family picnics we always get a dealer's choice game going. In recent years, a few of my sisters have become involved and the old crotchety members of the family that "understand" poker get very upset when they lose a hand they *should* have won to them because they stayed in to the very end with nothing and got lucky. Or, they had a great hand and didn't bet the way that the old crotches thought they should have bet with that hand.

While I get annoyed at my sisters when they constantly ask, "What beats what?" again and again, and it would be nice to be able to play within a closed system (meaning, when uncle bob does this, it could mean x, y, z and not a,f,zz, f1). It does add wrinkles to the thought process to have to deal with the wild cards (meaning the inexperienced players) but not everyone can be an expert.

[JAG]

Originally posted by MattJones4Heisman
It's sort of the "why must I lose to this idiot" thing.

Couldn't resist the Nimzo quote, eh?

[MJ4H]

Originally posted by JAG
Couldn't resist the Nimzo quote, eh?

You know me

Was wondering if anyone knew that. Of course YOU would

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Bee
I've seen some of the professionals get upset as well. Maybe not to the extreme of some of the good amateur players, but I've seen them walk away without shaking hands, making "questionable" comments after the hand, etc.

Did you see any of Phil Helmuth from the world series of poker? He's the ultimate crybaby.

[Bee]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Did you see any of Phil Helmuth from the world series of poker? He's the ultimate crybaby.

Yep, he's bad. There's a couple others as well that don't like losing especially when they get knocked out after going all-in and losing to an amazing draw.

[SirFozzie]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
Well, he didn't necessarily know that he had made the right decision until the guy showed his cards. He could have been up against AXs (Ace of spades, any other spade) and been beat already. In fact looking back, thats what I would have expected to see.

In turns out Fozzie lucked out/read the guy correctly as not having the Ace-high flush, but then just got an incredibly bad bit of luck on the river. Only 4 out of 46 possible cards would have helped out his opponent, and 1 of them came.

Knowing the cards we know he made the right play though, he'd win that hand 9 out of 10 times.

well, I posted that, still in shock from the whole event. I had thought I had Gilly read pretty well. In cases like the above, if he was Ax of spades, he would have raised me on the Flop, since he would have had 4 to a nut flush, and I figured him (rightly, as it turned out) for trip 5's.

I mean, in the space of 5 seconds, I was so proud of myself for having made the right read, and on a 4 outer, to utter despair. It was like a pit had opened up beneath me.