Coding/program writing

[maximus]

I will not go into very much detail but I have had the "urge" to learn how to write in C++. I do NOT know how to program or write code. I am inspired, however, by all of the utility making for football sims.

The current programs that I have for leanrning/writing purposes are, MSVisual 3.0 Tools, MSVisualC++ 4.0 std, MSVisualC++ 6.0 std, and MSVisualbasic.net. These are what I have. Is there one any better than these (among the opnes I have stated or one that I have not stated)? Any one that is easrier to learn by/from? Thanks in advance guys.

[VPI97]

Start by reading a book on programming concepts.

Then look at books regarding the different languages...then go with whichever one you feel most comfortable with.

[CraigSca]

C was probably the hardest language for me to learn, but only because I grew up with BASIC and Pascal.

For ease of learning, it's definitely Visual Basic. For functionality, it's C.

I'd be interested in hearing what you pick, especially if it's C. Anyone out there learn C as a first language? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts...

[Draft Dodger]

MSVisualC++ 6.0 std, and MSVisualbasic.net

two good starting points. I like VB, although it wont be long before someone posts and says it's too slow.

There's a lot of good reference books out there, and a few not so good ones.

C++ for Dummies is not a bad starting point
the SAMS "Teach yourself VB.NET in 21 Days" is a VB book I like a lot, although that's not a series I normally like much.

[Primal]

I don't like VB but I think you should start with VB.NET.

.NET is the way MS is going (you did list all MS IDE's) and VB would be the easest to learn.

If you chose the .NET platform http://www.windowsforms.net/ and http://www.asp.net are two sites with Tutorials, examples, etc.

[mckerney]

VB is probably a good place to start learning programming if you're going to go with C++.

[Daimyo]

I think C++ is what you should learn from. VB is extremely easy, but it also lets you get by writing pretty sloppy code. Start with C++ and you can alwayc pick up VB anytime.

If you just want to write utilities for other games, probably VB is the way to go since you'd easily get the quickest return on your time investment, but if you have higher aspirations i think I'd take the time to learn C++. Whichever one you pick definately go with .NET.

[maximus]

Wow. Thanks for the tips. I bought VB.net about a year or so ago and is is the STD version as well, so I hope that will be good enough. I tried once before but I didn't have the time to put into because of the time constraints (I worked 12 night shifts at the time). I will most certainly pick up some books, thats a given if I want to learn...I would think. I will check out the sites as well that Primal suggested. Thanks again.

[The Afoci]

I was a computer science major in college and learned C++ first. It was very odd, but proved to be very helpful when we went into Java and Visual. I am thinking of breaking out my old books getting back into it.

[FargoFreez aka fof playa]

Originally posted by The Afoci
I am thinking of breaking out my old porn collection and getting back into it.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by The Afoci
I was a computer science major in college and learned C++ first. It was very odd, but proved to be very helpful when we went into Java and Visual. I am thinking of breaking out my old books getting back into it.

we learned C first, then moved on to Java or VB or whatever. Honestly, I really like this approach. I like VB. I like VB even more having a nice programming foundation (C) to go by.

[Vince]

I learned C++ first in High School, and it was very easy and a great way to get into coding. I wish I had stuck with it (dropped my Computer Science major sophomore year, three years ago), as now I'd love to just putz around a little.

[Calis]

VB is definitely an easier language to follow, but I agree with the fact you'll be better off in the long run learning C++ first.

If you had it, I would suggest C# to start out with, it's a little kinder to a beginner than C++, but still along the same lines.

I am working as a programmer right now, and doing everything in my power to get out doing it.

We learned with Ada first, which is actually a great language to learn with imo, but probably near useless to be familiar with.

[The Afoci]

Originally posted by Calis
VB is definitely an easier language to follow, but I agree with the fact you'll be better off in the long run learning C++ first.

If you had it, I would suggest C# to start out with, it's a little kinder to a beginner than C++, but still along the same lines.

I am working as a programmer right now, and doing everything in my power to get out doing it.

We learned with Ada first, which is actually a great language to learn with imo, but probably near useless to be familiar with.

I got my major, started an internship and was told I would get to program, save/load functions, sorting function and such forever. I ended up getting kicked out of school for not paying tutition and I got a job in sales and haven't looked back. That would have been horrible to do.

[gstelmack]

For someone starting from scratch, I'd actually recommend getting a copy of C#.NET STD and picking up Charles Petzold's new learning book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846). You'll learn OO and some good solid techniques without a lot of the complexity of C++.

[Killebrew]

If your immediate goal is creating utilities then I'd suggest VB, as it is far easier than C++ and you don't need the power of C++ for those kinds of tasks. The danger of going for the most elite language (C++) as a 1st language is that it is an arduous climb and if you are not uber dedicated it might drive you away from programming altogether - I suspect that happens quite often actually. With VB you'll be able to advance and complete projects much quicker, and it's not as if it's a completely easy language to learn either.

[Easy Mac]

Go to a college and pick up visualstudio.net for $100. It has C++, vb, .asp, .net and a lot of tutorials (so I've been told). I've been meaning to pick it up when I can round up 100.

They're supposed to ask for your ID, but they probably won't... My dad bought the new Office XP Pro from my school for $150, and he said they didn't ask him anything.

[WheelsVT]

I just graduated from VT in 02 with a CS degree. Taught myself Basic on the commodore way before HS cuz I wanted to make simulation games (in fact my first was a cool NFL sim). I digress...

I'd almost recommend Basic to start, but why go through all the trouble to learn one language, and then move onto the one you really want to know. True, all concepts transend the language, but I'd say cut your teeth on the language you want to learn.

I'd say that has to be the latest C++ or C#.net (or whatever it is). I think the .net release would be the latest and greatest.

As far as books... I learned best from examples. C++ for Dummies is awful if you're looking for the how's, but great when it comes to the higher level of programming (objects and such). For the basics (the "hello world" approach) check out "Programming and Problem Solving with C++" or even better go for university's CS class websites (like
Viginia Tech's ) and check out the notes section starting with the 1000 level. I'd print those out, as they're free, and have loads of condensed info.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by WheelsVT

I'd say that has to be the latest C++ or C#.net (or whatever it is). I think the .net release would be the latest and greatest.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't recommend Java to a beginner. For one thing, the language is relatively small (though the development kit is admittedly huge) and straightforward. And, more importantly, you can acquire all of the tools you need free of charge thanks to a strong open source community.

Java is more than appropriate for anything except action games and, perhaps, mission-critical systems. As a bonus, your application- if coded correctly- will run on windows, unix, and macintosh. It's unfortunate that text simulation market is largely unaware of java.

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by wbonnell
I can't imagine why you wouldn't recommend Java to a beginner. For one thing, the language is relatively small (though the development kit is admittedly huge) and straightforward. And, more importantly, you can acquire all of the tools you need free of charge thanks to a strong open source community.

Java is more than appropriate for anything except action games and, perhaps, mission-critical systems. As a bonus, your application- if coded correctly- will run on windows, unix, and macintosh. It's unfortunate that text simulation market is largely unaware of java.

Java has a few pitfalls, tho. One, it can be overwhelming to teach yourself OOP when you've never coded before. That level of abstration alone may make learning Basic or Pascal easier from the start. That said, I started with Basic and Pascal and when I had to learn C++ it was a bit of culture shock.

The best and worst attributes of Java is that it does everything for you. You can find a class for anything in Java- it's the most flexible, elegant language. By this same token, however, you'll never learn about stuff like memory management or making your own data structures from the ground up. Why build a linked list when there's already one provided for you?

Finally, Java's slow. That's why Java hasn't caught on in a lot of areas (the aforementioned text sims and their number crunching). You pay for the robustness of Java in overhead.

As for a language to learn, I would think that without someone to hold your hand, jumping straight into OOP is no easy task. It's one thing if you have a friend who programs or take a class, but I would think getting used to classes and inherentance when you've never programmed before would be a bit of a task.

SI

[Marc Vaughan]

A lot depends on why you're 'learning' programming really, if its as a hobby then I'd recommend starting with VB - if its to try and get a job then I'd recommend either C++ or Java.

VB is very easy to pick up and get results quickly with (frustrations at lack of initial progress is the most common reason for people giving up initial attempts to learn programming).

C++/Java are harder to pick up and learn, but much more powerful once you've got to grasp with them.

Examples of programs written in languages:
VB - EHM was written using this as are several other text sims.
C++ - CM has been written in C/C++ as has I believe FOF and TCY.

[Marc Vaughan]

Ps. If you want any advice when you start learning feel free to email me and ask (although bear in mind that my C/C++ is much better than my very rusty VB ).

[Poli]

Interesting, I've been thinking along the same lines. Unfortunately, I have no background at all in such things. I do have an extensive background in electronics; not that it matters much in the programming world.

[Castlerock]

My background is with Microsoft implementations of all the below languages and strictly Windows.

VB is easy to learn (but you can get into some very bad habits so be carefull). You will get lots of people telling you that VB is not a "real" language. That's baloney. I use VB all the time. Sure there are some things that you simply cannot do with VB but as a beginner, they are not likely to matter. GUI development is a strong point.

C++ is much trickier. But also more powerful. GUI development is a weak point but you get multi-threading.

C# (.Net) is great. I have been a C++/COM developer for several years and C# rocks. It is very powerful, has a huge library of pre-written code and no more memory leaks, ref counts, etc. It also has the GUI features that C++ was missing. This is my language of choice these days.

VB.Net is a more powerful VB. But if you have a choice of VB.Net and C#, then I'd recomend C#.

But a lot of this depends on how deep you are going to go. If it's just to write a couple of utilities then I'd recomend VB. If your goal is to be a professional developer, then take classes and learn to do it right (but I'd start with Java or C#).

One approach might be to write a couple simple apps in VB just to get the hang of it and some confidence. Then move on to an object-oriented language.

[Fido]

Originally posted by maximus
I will not go into very much detail but I have had the "urge" to learn how to write in C++. I do NOT know how to program or write code. I am inspired, however, by all of the utility making for football sims.

The current programs that I have for leanrning/writing purposes are, MSVisual 3.0 Tools, MSVisualC++ 4.0 std, MSVisualC++ 6.0 std, and MSVisualbasic.net. These are what I have. Is there one any better than these (among the opnes I have stated or one that I have not stated)? Any one that is easrier to learn by/from? Thanks in advance guys.

One thing to keep in mind is that the whole "which is the best programming language" debate is a tough one, because every language has fanatics who will praise its capabilities while tearing down the other options.

Since you stated up front that you have the urge to learn C++, so I would discard VB as an option. Not because its a bad language - it definately has is uses, but because it won't help you learn C++. I would steer clear of C# for similar reasons - it is a derrivative of C++, but brings in a lot of additional "features" that will not be available to you in C++.

Now, as for the software that you have - you can pretty much throw aray the 3.0 and 4.0 - they're basically crap. 6.0 isn't all that much better, but it will work for you. I'd pick up some beginning C++ books. Go to a bookstore and read through them. Make sure that it is something that you can follow, understand, and not fall asleap during - and don't discount the For Dummies books they're quite good for beginners.

If you are serious about learning this, you might want to look into getting a copy of VC++.net (7.0), since its a much more compliant compiler. I'd also recomend getting a copy of Visual Assist (link) which is available for VC.Net and 6.0 and is a great enhancement of Intellisense.

[Fido]

Originally posted by Castlerock
C++ is much trickier. But also more powerful. GUI development is a weak point but you get multi-threading.

Dola
This would be an example of language bashing. Would you say that Word, Excel, FOF, TPF, Halflife, or 90% of the modern applications that are available have weak GUIs? Most of them are in C++.

The thing to keep in mind is that there is nothing that can be done in one (high level) language that cannot be done in another. The only issue and question is how easy it is to accomplish the tasks you want to accomplish.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Castlerock

C# (.Net) is great. I have been a C++/COM developer for several years and C# rocks. It is very powerful, has a huge library of pre-written code and no more memory leaks, ref counts, etc. It also has the GUI features that C++ was missing. This is my language of choice these days.

sounds like somebody missed the java bandwagon.

[Castlerock]

Originally posted by Fido
Dola
This would be an example of language bashing. Would you say that Word, Excel, FOF, TPF, Halflife, or 90% of the modern applications that are available have weak GUIs? Most of them are in C++.

The thing to keep in mind is that there is nothing that can be done in one (high level) language that cannot be done in another. The only issue and question is how easy it is to accomplish the tasks you want to accomplish.

My post was not language bashing. The vast majority of the code I have written in my life is C++. I never said you couldn't write GUI apps in C++ and I never said that applications written in C++ have weak GUIs. In fact, I didn't say anything about any applications.

I did say that one advantage to writing a GUI in VB is that VB makes it easy to write GUIs. One disadvantage to writing a GUI in C++ is that it's harder than VB. You either need to write it in MFC or straight to the windows API or some other method.

My guess is that the GUI is going to be a big part of any FOF utility maximus writes.

[Castlerock]

Originally posted by wbonnell
sounds like somebody missed the java bandwagon.

Man, I'm just getting bashed left and right.

I didn't write about Java because I don't have a lot of experience with it (I had a paragraph about it but deleted it). So yea, I guess I did miss that bandwagon. Nothing against Java just not familiar enough with it to recommend it.

[Fido]

Originally posted by Castlerock
My post was not language bashing.

Whether it was your intention or not, you did bash it by your use of the word "weak". Maybe "more involved", "less straightforward", or "more difficult" would have better conveyed what you were trying to say - but that's just semantics. Combine your use of "weak" with listing multithreading as the only perk of c++ and its a bash. No mention of Code Reusability, polymorphism, data abstraction, or templates (STL et al)?

Originally posted by Castlerock
I did say that one advantage to writing a GUI in VB is that VB makes it easy to write GUIs. One disadvantage to writing a GUI in C++ is that it's harder than VB. You either need to write it in MFC or straight to the windows API or some other method.

But you can't just make that statement either. It depends on the complexity of the UI you want to write. If you want simple forms/dialogs with stock controls then yeah, VB is much easier. But if you want to extend/subclass those controls, then C++/MFC is the easier approach.

I was just using your post to demonstrate that developers tend to be very adamant when it comes to language. I for one think that C++ is the way to go. A VB developer will sing the praises of VB and say that C++ is overly complex. A Java programmer will complain about VC++'s lack of platofrm independance and garbage collection. You could extend the discussion to FORTRAN, COBOL, PERL, or MUMPS, and be able to find people that would argue for them.

My point was that maximus said he/she wanted to learn C++ and people were steering him towards C#, VB and Java. That's not going to help.

[Fidatelo]

I'm a big fan of .NET, and the fact that you can write to the framework in any one of a handful of different languages only makes it more appealing.

[Castlerock]

Originally posted by Fido
Whether it was your intention or not, you did bash it by your use of the word "weak". Maybe "more involved", "less straightforward", or "more difficult" would have better conveyed what you were trying to say - but that's just semantics. Combine your use of "weak" with listing multithreading as the only perk of c++ and its a bash. No mention of Code Reusability, polymorphism, data abstraction, or templates (STL et al)?

Ok, I'll give you the multi-threading point. That should not have been included. But I still don't think weak/strong is a bash.

Originally posted by Fido
But you can't just make that statement either. It depends on the complexity of the UI you want to write. If you want simple forms/dialogs with stock controls then yeah, VB is much easier. But if you want to extend/subclass those controls, then C++/MFC is the easier approach.
[/b]

I stand by my point. I don't think that maximus is going to be extending/subclassing controls.

Originally posted by Fido
I was just using your post to demonstrate that developers tend to be very adamant when it comes to language. I for one think that C++ is the way to go. A VB developer will sing the praises of VB and say that C++ is overly complex. A Java programmer will complain about VC++'s lack of platofrm independance and garbage collection. You could extend the discussion to FORTRAN, COBOL, PERL, or MUMPS, and be able to find people that would argue for them.
[/b]

Here we agree. Languages/Operating Systems/etc often become a religious debate. I don't get involved in those debates and I didn't think I did here. I know several languages and will pick the language best suited (IMO) for the task at hand.

Wow, I just re-read you post and saw MUMPS. Do you know MUMPS? I didn't think anyone (else) knew that one.

Originally posted by Fido
My point was that maximus said he/she wanted to learn C++ and people were steering him towards C#, VB and Java. That's not going to help. [/b]

If the original intent was "what is the best way to learn C++?", then my post(s) and most others are off-topic. But I did state in my first post that I didn't know what maximus wanted to do with this coding knowledge. And I still suspect that the use of C++ was an initial leaning and not a requirement.

[primelord]

I myself will be writing all my future utilities in Fortran. As long as you have an AS/400 you will find the useful.

[Fido]

Originally posted by Castlerock
Wow, I just re-read you post and saw MUMPS. Do you know MUMPS? I didn't think anyone (else) knew that one.

I know enough of it to know that I hate it. Any languare where the statement (1+1>1+2) returns 3 is f'd up in my book

[Castlerock]

Originally posted by Fido
I know enough of it to know that I hate it. Any languare where the statement (1+1>1+2) returns 3 is f'd up in my book

I don't actually know MUMPS but I know MAGIC which is one generation more advanced. I used to be able to write a whole mini-app in about 3 lines. Crazy. The most instructions-per-character of any language EVER.

[sabotai]

Originally posted by primelord
I myself will be writing all my future utilities in Fortran. As long as you have an AS/400 you will find the useful.

How can you choose FOTRAN over COBOL? Geez, you people and your FORTRAN. COBOL is the best language, period!

[sabotai]

dola,

And if you want to check out some C++ tutorials...ahem... (sig)

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Castlerock
Ok, I'll give you the multi-threading point. That should not have been included. But I still don't think weak/strong is a bash.

I'll fall on this side- Castlerock, you are right. And, no Fido, This is not a religious language thing at all. In fact, I've spent a lot more time coding in C++ than any other language, but both VB and Java (via Swing) provide a GUI-in-a-can. Coding a GUI in those two languages is *much* easier to pick up. More powerful- that's certainly debatable, but if you're just starting out VB or Java are going to be much simpler to learn a GUI in. For the purposes of someone just starting out, that makes it weak.

SI

[Fido]

Originally posted by sterlingice
I'll fall on this side- Castlerock, you are right. And, no Fido, This is not a religious language thing at all. In fact, I've spent a lot more time coding in C++ than any other language, but both VB and Java (via Swing) provide a GUI-in-a-can. Coding a GUI in those two languages is *much* easier to pick up. More powerful- that's certainly debatable, but if you're just starting out VB or Java are going to be much simpler to learn a GUI in. For the purposes of someone just starting out, that makes it weak.

SI

Let me first appologize for apparently misspeaking. It was not my intention to accuse anyone of religious zealousy. I was simply stating the fact that that people suggested VB, Java or C# after maximus stated "I will not go into very much detail but I have had the "urge" to learn how to write in C++. " was strange. If he had asked about learning to play baseball would people have suggested he try softball? True softball would teach some of the basics, but you'd have to relearn things to reach your final goal of playing baseball.

Now, that being said, you cannot tout Java over C++ in terms of GUI creation, because neither language supports it. They provide GUI capabilities through libraries (MFC, Swing), but the language itself does not directly support it. If you want to bash MFC for its lack of ease of use, then that's a completely different thing and something that I will not argue with you over.

Jave does have its strong points (Garbage Collection, platform independance, automatic varriable initialization, etc), but it also has many shortcomings that, in my mind, make C++ a much better choice to learn (templates, operator overloading, multiple inheritance, scoping, etc). For a beginning programmer, I would still suggest C++. While garbage collection and varriable initiialization are nice - they teach laziness - learning without it forces the student to learn how to keep track of their resources - something that will not harm them if they move on to Java.

[Bonegavel]

IMHO, c++ is the place to start. If you learn to code with c++, other languages will be much easier to use.

This topic is often brought up and, as mentioned, you must choose the right tool for the job. Why use COBOL to code a FOF untility when VB will more than suffice?

Fido, I think what CastleRock was trying to get at was the point you made about "GUI is more difficult." Anything done in VB can be done in c++, it would just be a lot more work, or you will have to pay a 3rd party for their widgets.

I started with c++ and am glad I did. Sure it was a steeper climb up that mountain, but I feel that c++ gave me more of a "programmers" mentality. People I know that learned VB first, seem to be worse off than somebody that never touched a language when it came to attempting c++.

[Castlerock]

Fido, no offense taken...

It's still not clear to me what maximus's final goal is.
a) Is it to write a FOF utilility?
b) Is it to learn the basics of programming?
c) Is it to become a professional developer?

Learning C++ is simply a step to accomplish one of the above goals. If the goal is (a) then I don't think C++ is the right step.

If it's (b) or (c) then I see your points. C++ is a valid route (among several).

[Draft Dodger]

Originally posted by Fido
Let me first appologize for apparently misspeaking. It was not my intention to accuse anyone of religious zealousy. I was simply stating the fact that that people suggested VB, Java or C# after maximus stated "I will not go into very much detail but I have had the "urge" to learn how to write in C++. " was strange. If he had asked about learning to play baseball would people have suggested he try softball? True softball would teach some of the basics, but you'd have to relearn things to reach your final goal of playing baseball.

sorry Dave, but I don't agree. I think learning how to play softball would be a GREAT first step to learning baseball. it gets you familiar with what the game is all about. down the road, you'll have a nice foundation to learn baseball with, even though there are many differences between the two.

it's absolutely the basics that he needs to learn (he has NO programming experience at all). I personally don't think it really matters that much what language he starts with. what he's learning (the PROCESS of creating a program) is pretty similar in all of them at this stage of the game.

[sabotai]

I think learning how to play softball would be a GREAT first step to learning baseball.

Not if you were the pitcher.

[Primal]

I say machine code

[sterlingice]

Originally posted by Fido
Jave does have its strong points (Garbage Collection, platform independance, automatic varriable initialization, etc), but it also has many shortcomings that, in my mind, make C++ a much better choice to learn (templates, operator overloading, multiple inheritance, scoping, etc). For a beginning programmer, I would still suggest C++. While garbage collection and varriable initiialization are nice - they teach laziness - learning without it forces the student to learn how to keep track of their resources - something that will not harm them if they move on to Java.

That I'll agree with 100%. I really like to code in Java- it's more elegant and simple than C++ for my buck because there's a class for practically everything so you don't have to brute force stuff as much. But therein lies the rub- you don't actually learn through doing as much.

Our curriculum here at KU switched from C++ to Java back to C++ now from the intro language and the people that started in Java get lost when you ask them to program in C++ whereas the transition from C++ to Java is much, much smoother.

Then again, I learned QBasic on my own and has Pascal in school. Learning C++ was a bit of culture shock, at first.

Originally posted by Primal
I say machine code

Damn straight! Start at bit twiddling and work your way up! Wait... that would pain incarnate.

SI

[Fido]

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
sorry Dave, but I don't agree. I think learning how to play softball would be a GREAT first step to learning baseball. it gets you familiar with what the game is all about. down the road, you'll have a nice foundation to learn baseball with, even though there are many differences between the two.

Point taken Dave, but my point would be why not just start learning with baseball. You'll learn the same skills, and when all is said and done you'll be able to play the game. The learning curve may be steeper, but you'll only have one curve. If he were to start with VB then he would have to learn hoe OOP really works and unlearn the way VB does things.

Originally posted by Draft Dodger
it's absolutely the basics that he needs to learn (he has NO programming experience at all). I personally don't think it really matters that much what language he starts with. what he's learning (the PROCESS of creating a program) is pretty similar in all of them at this stage of the game.

Oh but it does matter. Moving from a procedural language background to an OOP background is a tough transition. The techniques you use I, say C are completely valid in C++ but your C++ code will still be C code. You won't make full use of the feature set of C++. From experience, people making that transition tend to not make use of data encapsulation and their object heirarchy is usually less than ideal.

If you want to get technical about it, he really shoudl start with logic problems. Working through the logic of solving a given problem, looking at it from different angles and learning that the best approach is not always the most direct one. THAT is what programming is all about. And is why I would hire someone like Quick without any programming experience before I would hire someone with experience but without his logic.

[Fido]

Originally posted by Castlerock
Fido, no offense taken...

It's still not clear to me what maximus's final goal is.
a) Is it to write a FOF utilility?
b) Is it to learn the basics of programming?
c) Is it to become a professional developer?

But we do. He stated right off that he wanted to learn C++. He made no mention of FOF utilities, but people here seem to want more people to write utilities (I guess the ones that are making them aren't doing a good enough job)

Originally posted by Castlerock
Learning C++ is simply a step to accomplish one of the above goals. If the goal is (a) then I don't think C++ is the right step.

If it's (b) or (c) then I see your points. C++ is a valid route (among several).

There is no right path to take. I cut my teeth by teaching myself BASIC on a TRS-80 (yes I am old). In college we went from Pascal to C to Fortran and Assembly. I had to make the transition to C++ myself, so I know firsthand how difficult the transition from procedural to object oriented can be. But if you have the desire you can do it.

[tucker342]

I tried learning C++ in a class last year. Lets just say I'm not very good......

[maximus]

Fido is correct, I do want to make utilities for football sims. TPF namely. From what I have read, VB is the way to go and thats OK since I already have it. Since I mostly work with graphics (on the side, nothing pro) I want to get some ideas up and running for TPF2 (assuming that there will be another version).

Believe me Fido, you and a few of you others here are the reason why I am even intersted. The utilities you guys create are awsome. I want to be able to put *my* ideas to work and create some things because I believe some of my ideas would work really well. You guys on this forum are more of an inspiration.....OK, Im getting mushy now.


If I do get the "hang" of it down the road then sure, I would love to do it on a more professional level. But, that is down the road. My thinking is this, you only live once....you might as well do what you want (within boundries-for you sick people) while you are still alive.

[maximus]

Fido, here is a reason why I want to learn


http://fidosutils.shorturl.com/fofreporter/sample/players/1001.htm


Is it the only reason, right now....yes. Your work is that good to me.