Korea 85

Fritz · 10-18-2003, 02:33 PM

Another Modern Campaigns game from HPS/Tiller.

The game is set in an a hypothetical korean conflict circa 1985.

1985 is a good point because the technology advantage of the allied forces was just starting to deploy, so there are a few strong unit types but mostly the types are ballanced.

I have just started this one, so I don't have much to report yet.

sachmo71 · 10-19-2003, 09:09 AM

I'd love to hear more! Can you post a link to the game?

Fritz · 10-19-2003, 07:12 PM

Official Site http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/product...5/korea85.html

Unoffical Site (not much here now)
http://members.shaw.ca/gcsaunders/korea.html

--------
I started playing the "full game", but the units go down to company level, which is just too vast for me to ever finish. When I was doing PBEM as game like this would take a year to complete.

I am attempting a 12 turn scenario which can be followed in the dynasty section. This should only take me a few days of casual gaming.

HornedFrog Purple · 10-19-2003, 08:07 PM

Fritz and Sachmo,

How is the AI in HPS games? I play Hearts of Iron which for a while had some AI issues as far as production and some other things plus I thought airpower was a bit too strong for the time period it was emulating. A lot of that got corrected in some patches.

Thanks.

Fritz · 10-19-2003, 08:34 PM

Tubby - First, understand that the games are utterly different in scope and scale.

HOI is like risk on steroids. A game like Korea shares nothing with that other than the military theme.

The AI in the HPS/Tiller games is okay, but it goes downhill with the longer scenarios. The best way to get a great game is to PBEM, which would fit your lifestyle well.

HornedFrog Purple · 10-19-2003, 08:48 PM

Thanks Fritz.. as a matter of fact I just bought a laptop Friday which will let me do that kind of thing in whatever hotel room I have to stay at if I volunteer for firefighting reserve. (yeah I got it for FOF multi... I admit it)

I play PBEM chess which is cool because its laid back and you're not pressured as much as waiting for someone in real time.

I see what you're saying now. This is more like Meier's Gettysburg which I liked.

Thanks a lot I'll look into it.

Fritz · 10-19-2003, 08:49 PM

if you want to get into this sort of thing let me know. There are several titles now, and some of them are better than other. Some of them have more players than others as well.

The guy who runs the second link above is on the development team and is very easy to access. he provides spectacular interface between the lead developer and the end user.

sachmo71 · 10-20-2003, 01:12 PM

Fritz, what is their best WWII title? Maybe I could buy a copy and we could get a game going.

Fritz · 10-20-2003, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sachmo71
Fritz, what is their best WWII title? Maybe I could buy a copy and we could get a game going.

That depends on they style of play. Some are more open, others are slugfests. I have a west front bias.

If you buy before Nov1, the new Market Garden is the way to go ($10 discount).

Tell me what type of battles you would like to play and I can suggest a title.

sachmo71 · 10-20-2003, 04:12 PM

North Africa is fun. I also enjoy games that focus on Normandy and Operation Cobra.

Fritz · 10-21-2003, 08:36 AM

I do not like the Tobruk game at all. I think the scale does not fit the abstraction engine at all.

Normandy is a better game, but the full campaign is a bit weak.

A good game for a newb is Bulge. It isa battle many know, it has some good operational movement, bot other places where it slogs. One side is dominant for part of the game and then another, which is nice for replay. Some of the scenario's are top notch and few make excellent use of optional supply rules.

Sicily is my favorite of the WW2 titles.

That said, pick any and I will play. I only have about 12 games PBEM, so I am no expert.

Tubby - If you get on board as well we can start a FOFC Wargamer's club.

Fritz · 10-23-2003, 07:03 AM

I just ordered the Market Garden game.

Calis · 10-23-2003, 11:19 AM

Fritz- Do you have any of the Squad Battle games?

I seem to enjoy games on the smaller scale, wondering how good those were...I'm a complete newb when it comes to HPS games though, and a rather poor wargamer overall, but I do enjoy playing them.

HPS doesn't release any sort of demo or anything for their games do they?

I'm just not sure if I still have any hex-based wargaming left in me. Oddly enough I think I've become less patient with "old school" style games as I get older, whereas I thought I'd be more patient.

Anyway, curious as to what your thoughts were on the Squad Battle games.

Oh another thing, these games come with good tutorials and such? It's been years since I've done any sort of hex based, and even the ones I played then where much more simplistic than these, so I need all the help I can get. I know I've heard that Korsun Pocket has excellent tutorials, would I be better off starting with that one?

Fritz · 10-24-2003, 02:24 PM

Calis, no to the squad series of games. I played a bunch of ASL back in the table top days and no computer captures that for me. It might just be nostalaga though.

HPS does not have any demos

The panzer campaigns series has a mostly shared manual, which is fairly good. Many of the titles have a short tutorial scenario, but it isn't anything like the step by step types have become so popular. There is some good stuff on the web in terms of game info.

I have not played Korsun, but enjoyed it's sibling "The Aredennes Offensive." TAO is free now, so that may be a good route to go.

TAO was a slightly larger scale than the PzC series and the maps are not as true. the UI was nicer to look at

Quote:

Originally posted by Calis
Fritz- Do you have any of the Squad Battle games?

I seem to enjoy games on the smaller scale, wondering how good those were...I'm a complete newb when it comes to HPS games though, and a rather poor wargamer overall, but I do enjoy playing them.

HPS doesn't release any sort of demo or anything for their games do they?

I'm just not sure if I still have any hex-based wargaming left in me. Oddly enough I think I've become less patient with "old school" style games as I get older, whereas I thought I'd be more patient.

Anyway, curious as to what your thoughts were on the Squad Battle games.

Oh another thing, these games come with good tutorials and such? It's been years since I've done any sort of hex based, and even the ones I played then where much more simplistic than these, so I need all the help I can get. I know I've heard that Korsun Pocket has excellent tutorials, would I be better off starting with that one?

Calis · 10-27-2003, 09:33 PM

Cool, thanks Fritz.

I actually went ahead and bought Rzhev '42 and just got it in today. I've started going through the tutorial a little bit.

Won't have a lot of time to go through it until this weekend probably, so we'll see then if I have the patience to learn a complicated game anymore. I hope so.

This is my first foray into Operational level gaming, so I'm sure it'll take me a while to get used to.

You know, something else I've been looking at, and I think might actually be more up my alley because it's a bit more "gamey" is the East Front and West Front games from the Talonsoft days.

I just like the idea of the campaigns, probably blasphemy for real wargamers, but I really dig the unit carry over through the campaigns, the RPG aspects.

Not sure though, did you like those games? I really haven't heard much bad about them, and I think it can still be purchased from Talonsoft's site, and I can't seem to find it anywhere else. That's a crapload of game for 30-40 bucks it would appear.

The Operational Art of War looks pretty interesting as well though, any particular favorite between those two? I think I'll order one or the other sometime soon.

Fritz · 10-28-2003, 11:33 AM

East Front/West Front and the PzC games are from the same developer. Not my tastes though and the PzC games are more mature.

I have Rzhev, and it is still in the wrap. Let me know if you want to PBEM a small scen.

Opart is a very good game.

Godzilla Blitz · 10-28-2003, 02:22 PM

Calis: Have you tried Panzer General, Panzer General II, Allied General, Pacific General, or Fantasy General? They are more "beer and pretzels" but the AI puts up a decent fight, you have core units that carry over from mission to mission, and there are linked campaigns where the outcome in one battle determines what scenario you get to fight next. Panzer General might be a good one to start with. It's an older game but well worth taking a look.

I've been thinking about doing a dynasty with Panzer General when I get done with my XCOM one. People could sign up to represent the different core units available.

Calis · 10-28-2003, 04:07 PM

Yep, the General series and Steel Panthers are really the only wargame experience I have. So I'd definitely say I'm more of a wargamer-lite.

Think that's a pretty sweet idea for a Dynasty as well, I call dibs on a Tiger!

I loved Panzer General and Fantasy General, no so much for the other ones.

Have you played the East Front/West Front games? I kinda understood those to be more akin to the Panzer General series, but wasn't sure. If they are, I'd buy it in a second. Hmm, I might look into trying to find the Panzer General games again, I have no clue where my old copies are. Probably not too easy to find now huh?

Fritz- Well, I actually took a bit of time at lunch today to play through the "tutorial" a bit more, and realized I need all sorts of help. I wish it had a bit more of a strategic level tutorial, instead of just strict mechanics. Wish I could find a game that gave you a good walkthrough of what to do, and explained why. I think I heard Korsun Pocket's tutorials went into this, but I haven't confirmed this. I'm just trying to find a way to get my feet wet, and not having to just dive straight in, I lose patience fast.

If I figure this stuff out, I'd love to play a small PBEM game. I'm afraid right now though, I'd be a much worse opponent than the A.I., I need some training first.

Fritz · 10-28-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calis
If I figure this stuff out, I'd love to play a small PBEM game. I'm afraid right now though, I'd be a much worse opponent than the A.I., I need some training first.

http://members.shaw.ca/gcsaunders/articles.html

10-19-2003, 07:12 PM	#3
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Official Site http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/product...5/korea85.html Unoffical Site (not much here now) http://members.shaw.ca/gcsaunders/korea.html -------- I started playing the "full game", but the units go down to company level, which is just too vast for me to ever finish. When I was doing PBEM as game like this would take a year to complete. I am attempting a 12 turn scenario which can be followed in the dynasty section. This should only take me a few days of casual gaming. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-19-2003, 08:34 PM	#5
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	Tubby - First, understand that the games are utterly different in scope and scale. HOI is like risk on steroids. A game like Korea shares nothing with that other than the military theme. The AI in the HPS/Tiller games is okay, but it goes downhill with the longer scenarios. The best way to get a great game is to PBEM, which would fit your lifestyle well. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-19-2003, 08:49 PM	#7
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	if you want to get into this sort of thing let me know. There are several titles now, and some of them are better than other. Some of them have more players than others as well. The guy who runs the second link above is on the development team and is very easy to access. he provides spectacular interface between the lead developer and the end user. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster Last edited by Fritz : 10-19-2003 at 09:25 PM.

10-21-2003, 08:36 AM	#11
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I do not like the Tobruk game at all. I think the scale does not fit the abstraction engine at all. Normandy is a better game, but the full campaign is a bit weak. A good game for a newb is Bulge. It isa battle many know, it has some good operational movement, bot other places where it slogs. One side is dominant for part of the game and then another, which is nice for replay. Some of the scenario's are top notch and few make excellent use of optional supply rules. Sicily is my favorite of the WW2 titles. That said, pick any and I will play. I only have about 12 games PBEM, so I am no expert. Tubby - If you get on board as well we can start a FOFC Wargamer's club. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-23-2003, 07:03 AM	#12
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I just ordered the Market Garden game. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-19-2003, 09:09 AM	#2
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	I'd love to hear more! Can you post a link to the game?

10-19-2003, 08:07 PM	#4
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	Fritz and Sachmo, How is the AI in HPS games? I play Hearts of Iron which for a while had some AI issues as far as production and some other things plus I thought airpower was a bit too strong for the time period it was emulating. A lot of that got corrected in some patches. Thanks.

10-19-2003, 08:48 PM	#6
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	Thanks Fritz.. as a matter of fact I just bought a laptop Friday which will let me do that kind of thing in whatever hotel room I have to stay at if I volunteer for firefighting reserve. (yeah I got it for FOF multi... I admit it) I play PBEM chess which is cool because its laid back and you're not pressured as much as waiting for someone in real time. I see what you're saying now. This is more like Meier's Gettysburg which I liked. Thanks a lot I'll look into it.

10-20-2003, 01:12 PM	#8
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Fritz, what is their best WWII title? Maybe I could buy a copy and we could get a game going.

10-20-2003, 04:12 PM	#10
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	North Africa is fun. I also enjoy games that focus on Normandy and Operation Cobra.

10-23-2003, 11:19 AM	#13
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	Fritz- Do you have any of the Squad Battle games? I seem to enjoy games on the smaller scale, wondering how good those were...I'm a complete newb when it comes to HPS games though, and a rather poor wargamer overall, but I do enjoy playing them. HPS doesn't release any sort of demo or anything for their games do they? I'm just not sure if I still have any hex-based wargaming left in me. Oddly enough I think I've become less patient with "old school" style games as I get older, whereas I thought I'd be more patient. Anyway, curious as to what your thoughts were on the Squad Battle games. Oh another thing, these games come with good tutorials and such? It's been years since I've done any sort of hex based, and even the ones I played then where much more simplistic than these, so I need all the help I can get. I know I've heard that Korsun Pocket has excellent tutorials, would I be better off starting with that one?

10-27-2003, 09:33 PM	#15
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	Cool, thanks Fritz. I actually went ahead and bought Rzhev '42 and just got it in today. I've started going through the tutorial a little bit. Won't have a lot of time to go through it until this weekend probably, so we'll see then if I have the patience to learn a complicated game anymore. I hope so. This is my first foray into Operational level gaming, so I'm sure it'll take me a while to get used to. You know, something else I've been looking at, and I think might actually be more up my alley because it's a bit more "gamey" is the East Front and West Front games from the Talonsoft days. I just like the idea of the campaigns, probably blasphemy for real wargamers, but I really dig the unit carry over through the campaigns, the RPG aspects. Not sure though, did you like those games? I really haven't heard much bad about them, and I think it can still be purchased from Talonsoft's site, and I can't seem to find it anywhere else. That's a crapload of game for 30-40 bucks it would appear. The Operational Art of War looks pretty interesting as well though, any particular favorite between those two? I think I'll order one or the other sometime soon.

10-28-2003, 11:33 AM	#16
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	East Front/West Front and the PzC games are from the same developer. Not my tastes though and the PzC games are more mature. I have Rzhev, and it is still in the wrap. Let me know if you want to PBEM a small scen. Opart is a very good game. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

10-28-2003, 02:22 PM	#17
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Calis: Have you tried Panzer General, Panzer General II, Allied General, Pacific General, or Fantasy General? They are more "beer and pretzels" but the AI puts up a decent fight, you have core units that carry over from mission to mission, and there are linked campaigns where the outcome in one battle determines what scenario you get to fight next. Panzer General might be a good one to start with. It's an older game but well worth taking a look. I've been thinking about doing a dynasty with Panzer General when I get done with my XCOM one. People could sign up to represent the different core units available. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

10-28-2003, 04:07 PM	#18
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	Yep, the General series and Steel Panthers are really the only wargame experience I have. So I'd definitely say I'm more of a wargamer-lite. Think that's a pretty sweet idea for a Dynasty as well, I call dibs on a Tiger! I loved Panzer General and Fantasy General, no so much for the other ones. Have you played the East Front/West Front games? I kinda understood those to be more akin to the Panzer General series, but wasn't sure. If they are, I'd buy it in a second. Hmm, I might look into trying to find the Panzer General games again, I have no clue where my old copies are. Probably not too easy to find now huh? Fritz- Well, I actually took a bit of time at lunch today to play through the "tutorial" a bit more, and realized I need all sorts of help. I wish it had a bit more of a strategic level tutorial, instead of just strict mechanics. Wish I could find a game that gave you a good walkthrough of what to do, and explained why. I think I heard Korsun Pocket's tutorials went into this, but I haven't confirmed this. I'm just trying to find a way to get my feet wet, and not having to just dive straight in, I lose patience fast. If I figure this stuff out, I'd love to play a small PBEM game. I'm afraid right now though, I'd be a much worse opponent than the A.I., I need some training first.

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