Detroit is Championship City Once Again!!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Congrats to the Shock! Congrats to Bill Lambeer!

Well done, ladies!!!

[Schmidty]

I'm not ashamed to say that I've been following the Shock closely since they hired Bill last year as the coach.

This year has been magical for the team and league, and I am very hopeful that the WNBA will continue to grow and flourish.

What a game. What a season. I don't care what anybody says, those women can play. I'm proud to be a Shock fan.

[WussGawd]

Yawn...

And they could still get schooled by any Division I's Men's teams, and a good chunk of the better boy's high school teams.

Frankly, I find women's basketball unwatchable. I can happily watch women's tennis, women's soccer, and women's volleyball (as well as the usual women's track and field events...but women's basketball? Not a chance.

[Marmel]

Originally posted by Schmidty
I'm not ashamed to say that I've been following the Shock closely since they hired Bill last year as the coach.

This year has been magical for the team and league, and I am very hopeful that the WNBA will continue to grow and flourish.

What a game. What a season. I don't care what anybody says, those women can play. I'm proud to be a Shock fan.

Figures.

[EagleFan]

Is that league still around? The WUSA was a much better league and it had to fold because it wasn't leaching off the NBA as it's only means to stay afloat.

[vex]

It's around because even though it losses money EVERY season, the NBA keeps funding it.

[Bing]

Has downtown been extinguished yet? Or are the celebratory riots in the D still going full force?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by WussGawd
Yawn...

And they could still get schooled by any Division I's Men's teams, and a good chunk of the better boy's high school teams.

Frankly, I find women's basketball unwatchable. I can happily watch women's tennis, women's soccer, and women's volleyball (as well as the usual women's track and field events...but women's basketball? Not a chance.

Awww, come on now, WG! No need for sour grapes and all that. Just because there will be no ticker-tape parade and victory party out in Arizona there is no reason not to feel the love of the WNBA!!! It's in the game! It's fantastic! The coolest game on earth! It's... I have no idea what the NBA tagline is, if it even has one.

Anyway, enough with all that... We are the champions, we are the champions, there's no time for losers, for we are the champions.... of the world!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by Bing
Has downtown been extinguished yet? Or are the celebratory riots in the D still going full force?

Do you happen to write for a column for any of the Denver newspapers? There haven't been post-championship riots in Detroit since the 1984 World Series. Unlike, say, in Denver. Or other so called "respectable" places. like Waukesha.

The last three (yes, count 'em THREE) Stanley Cup Championship celebrations have been remarkably incident free. No fires. No louting. No arrests. It's all about the love.

Additionally, there were no riots when the Michigan Panthers were crowned USFL champions.

Or disturbances when the Detroit Drive won any of their multiple Arena Bowl championships.

Nary a cigarette was lit after the Detroit Vipers brought home the coveted Turner Cup of the IHL.

There may have been one or two incidents back in the Bad Boys day, but come on, our team was the Bad Boys, it'd look silly not to do /something/.

Now, if the Lions ever won the Superbowl, I cannot promise great restraint. Though the fact that there were no riots during the blackout is quite encouraging. That and it'll be January or February in Detroit. A rather chilly time to riot properly.

[TroyF]

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

I watched parts of the series and enjoyed the games. (I missed the game last night)

I'm amazed that people would rather watch a crap show like Playmakers or Survivor than an actual well played basketball game. I hope the WNBA continues to exist and eventually breaks even.

TroyF

[vex]

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
The coolest game on earth! It's... I have no idea what the NBA tagline is, if it even has one.

Wouldn't that be the NHL?

[ice4277]

Even though its nice they won the title, I have heard this being discussed around town for maybe 30 seconds. Nobody really cares here, and its very likely the Shock are going to be gone by the end of next season at the latest. For what its worth I would much rather have watched a WUSA game than WNBA.

[TredWel]

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
Now, if the Lions ever won the Superbowl, I cannot promise great restraint. Though the fact that there were no riots during the blackout is quite encouraging. That and it'll be January or February in Detroit. A rather chilly time to riot properly.

Well, the fact that hell would have just frozen over will also help keep fires in check.

[Ksyrup]

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
No louting.

That's right - no louting, no looting. Heck, I don't even think there was a de-lousing.

[DeToxRox]

for any people bashing the WNBA (And I am just glad to see Laimbeer win basically), that game last night had almost as many people as the Cardinals home opener.

people in arizona do not deserve any sports.

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
Congrats to the Shock! Congrats to Bill Lambeer!

Well done, ladies!!!

I heard Laimbeer on Kornheiser this morning. I had no clue it had just happened.

What would happen if they held a Championship, and no one knew about it?

I guess Detroit would win.

[Lazy Eye]

for any people bashing the WNBA (And I am just glad to see Laimbeer win basically), that game last night had almost as many people as the Cardinals home opener.

Wow. I never realized the lesbian contingent was that high in that city.

[WussGawd]

Originally posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle
for any people bashing the WNBA (And I am just glad to see Laimbeer win basically), that game last night had almost as many people as the Cardinals home opener.

people in arizona do not deserve to suffer the Bidwills.

I fixed this for you.

[Schmidty]

Wow.

I don't consider myself to be a liberal, but even I can't believe how putridly sexist some of you guys are. Probably a case of having small penises (Marmel) or domineering mothers/wives. Your masculinity feels threatened by women in positions of power or competition. Pathetic.

I assistant coach the 7th grade girls basketball team in Kentwood, and although the girls don't have the physical tools that boys have, they have just as much desire and love for the game. They play the game the right way, because they listen to coaching and have no macho need to show off.

I am a basketball junkie, and I will tell you this: The women's game is the purist form of basketball left.

Anyone who truly watched any of the WNBA Finals without prejudice cannot deny that the games were competitive, intense, and truly enjoyable to watch. There was no stupid showboating, selfishness, or sleezy machismo. There was simply pure, unfiltered competitive team basketball on display.

I feel sorry for people who can't get over their own prejudice, macho issues, or inability to think outside the box, because they are missing out on something worthwhile.

[MJ4H]

You aren't automatically sexist because you don't like the WNBA.

For example, I like women's soccer MORE than men's.
I like women's tennis MORE than men's.
I like women's college basketball (but not more than men's).
I can't watch the WNBA.

I'm not sexist, just sexy.

[TLK]

Well, folks...... business just picked up..........

[Ksyrup]

Bah...I don't find most women's sports in the least bit interesting. Tennis and volleyball I like, other than that, it's just not exciting. I'm sure it's competitive, but the physical skills just don't compete with the men.

That said, if they want to have a league, I'm all for it. I think it's an integral part of the learning process of young girls/women growing up, and if they can make a living at it, I say go for it. Especially since I have a 4 year old daughter who's 46.5 inches tall (b-ball scholarship, here we come!). Just don't try to sell it to me as the equal of the men's game, because I don't buy it.

[TroyF]

Originally posted by Ksyrup
Bah...I don't find most women's sports in the least bit interesting. Tennis and volleyball I like, other than that, it's just not exciting. I'm sure it's competitive, but the physical skills just don't compete with the men.

That said, if they want to have a league, I'm all for it. I think it's an integral part of the learning process of young girls/women growing up, and if they can make a living at it, I say go for it. Especially since I have a 4 year old daughter who's 46.5 inches tall (b-ball scholarship, here we come!). Just don't try to sell it to me as the equal of the men's game, because I don't buy it.

I don't think anybody ever has. The two are different games. I'll agree with what was posted above. From a basketball purists perspective, women's basketball is as close as you are going to come to the original intent.

That doesn't mean the men and women's games are equal. The men are more athletic, there isn't any debate about that.

I wish the men played the game the way the women are playing it. I wish "thug ball" wasn't taking the world by storm. Basketball on the men's side has become a game of strength instead of one of position.

I like the women's game because it is played the way I feel the game was meant to be played.

TroyF

[daedalus]

So based on some of these assinine comments . . .

And they could still get schooled by any Division I's Men's teams, and a good chunk of the better boy's high school teams.

Wow. I never realized the lesbian contingent was that high in that city.

1) All women who play sport are lesbians.
2) All women who follow sports are lesbians.
3) If there are no sweaty men for me to watch, it ain't worth watching.

Awesome.

Who gives one flying flip if these women aren't men, don't play like men or don't have the physical skills to match men? One is one game, the other is another. Nobody has sat there and tried to convinced you to like the women's game, tried to convince you it's a better game or tried to convince you that they can beat the men. If your masculinity is that threatened by the fact that these women got out of the fucking kitchen and dared to put on shoes, then just don't watch the game and stay away from the thread that features them. It can't be THAT damn hard.

[EagleFan]

What we take exception to is getting it jammed down our throat like it's something special. It's a league that can't survive on the money it makes and like any other league that can't make it financially it should not be artifically propped up.

The WUSA was a more watchable product but couldn't make money to survive and ended, like any other business venture that can't support itself.

What's worse is that the WNBA actually even had a strike, if I remember correctly. No league just starting out should allow their players to have such power, that's just insanely stupid. If the league wasn't being backed by the cash flow of the NBA it would have died right then and there. That shows that the players and league management are complete morons (Example: You work for a new struggling company and you go on strike, there's a very good chance that you just lost your job because the company ends up going under because of your actions).

[WussGawd]

Originally posted by daedalus
So based on some of these assinine comments . . .1) All women who play sport are lesbians.
2) All women who follow sports are lesbians.
3) If there are no sweaty men for me to watch, it ain't worth watching.

Awesome.

Who gives one flying flip if these women aren't men, don't play like men or don't have the physical skills to match men? One is one game, the other is another. Nobody has sat there and tried to convinced you to like the women's game, tried to convince you it's a better game or tried to convince you that they can beat the men. If your masculinity is that threatened by the fact that these women got out of the fucking kitchen and dared to put on shoes, then just don't watch the game and stay away from the thread that features them. It can't be THAT damn hard.

OK, first of all, I strenuously object to my statement being taken out of context. As stated, I DO NOT have a problem with women's sports in general (and indeed find some of them at least as entertaining as men's sports...see tennis, volleyball, track and field, soccer). As for your statement about my comment (conveniently robbed of its much needed context) being asinine, I'd suggest a visit to alt.pot.kettle.black. Particularly since you then lump it with statements about lesbian fans I did NOT and would not make. I could care less whether WNBA fans are gay/lesbian/transgender/hetero/or prefer sex with sheep, I simply don't find it entertaining.

What I do have a problem with is that women in the WNBA can't shoot or pass as well as men. OK, obviously, dunking isn't going to be as big a part of the game, but frankly, the couple of times I've tried to watch a WNBA game, it was like watching a game between a couple of bad high school teams...turnovers galore, bad outside shooting, little dribble penetration, bad defense.

And for those of you who romanticize this as being a purer form of the game as Naismith intended, I encourage you to take a good look at the stats of late 50's, early 60's NBA teams...none of them could shoot or pass either. It led to such things as Bob Cousy making the hall of fame despite never shooting 45% from the field for a season, and a few other gems.

And I'll save my thoughts on the current state of the NBA for another post.

[WussGawd]

dola.

It occurs to me that at least one thing I have stated earlier in this thread is a bit screwed up.

Congratulations to Detroit. I don't care for the WNBA, but clearly they worked hard and deserved their title. It *is* an achievement.

[WussGawd]

Originally posted by EagleFan
What we take exception to is getting it jammed down our throat like it's something special. It's a league that can't survive on the money it makes and like any other league that can't make it financially it should not be artifically propped up.

The WUSA was a more watchable product but couldn't make money to survive and ended, like any other business venture that can't support itself.

What's worse is that the WNBA actually even had a strike, if I remember correctly. No league just starting out should allow their players to have such power, that's just insanely stupid. If the league wasn't being backed by the cash flow of the NBA it would have died right then and there. That shows that the players and league management are complete morons (Example: You work for a new struggling company and you go on strike, there's a very good chance that you just lost your job because the company ends up going under because of your actions).

Right. I consider the WNBA to be a classic case of political correctness gone horribly wrong, and I say this as someone who votes, and believes left of center on most issues.

Consider that all of the following professional women's leagues have came (and gone) without so much as a blip on the radar screen:

WUSA (Women's soccer, a much more watchable game, and a game that generally is indistinguishable from the men's game in terms of quality of play)
A Fast Pitch Softball league (can't remember the acronym)
A Women's Baseball League
ABL (You WNBA fans do remember there used to be TWO women's professional basketball leagues, right?)
An attempt at reviving World Team Tennis

It bothers me that people aren't more up in arms about the WUSA's passing, particularly in a country that seems to be warming up a bit to soccer at the moment, and particularly in light of the timing with the '99 and '03 Women's World Cups.

The facts are that the NBA created its own monster with the WNBA. The league, by all accounts I've read, is not profitable. I strongly suspect that if reason hadn't prevailed at the 11th hour on the labor issue, we would be referring to the WNBA only in the past tense by now.

In any case, if they aren't able to grow the game beyond its current niche audience, it wouldn't shock me if the NBA owners quietly decide to cut the purse strings and disassociate itself from the league to avoid the clear political dangers of just folding the league's tent in the night.

Personally, if this happened, it would be unfortunate, as a lot of young women who play college basketball would see their aspirations to go pro dimmed, and I think it's tough to deny anyone a shot at their their dreams.

But none of this goes any length toward telling me that I should be interested in a product that I basically consider unwatchable. Heck, I don't even consider the NBA to be all that enjoyable at the present time. For me, the basketball season ends with March Madness...that's pretty much been true since MJ left the league, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. I don't even get all that fired up about the Suns anymore, and I grew up with them.

[Glengoyne]

Originally posted by TroyF
From a basketball purists perspective, women's basketball is as close as you are going to come to the original intent. .....I like the women's game because it is played the way I feel the game was meant to be played.

TroyF

Bah!

If you wanna see a bunch of Nancys run around and play below the rim, just watch the Ivy League. They play the game as it was intended, and are atheletic while doing it.

That said. I actually agree with you that womens basketball is interesting to watch if you pay attention to what they are doing strategically. It lacks the flash of the mens game, and while I enjoy basketball strategy, I also like some flash. I essentially use what you stated above regarding the womens game to explain why I favor College basketball over the NBA.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by EagleFan
What we take exception to is getting it jammed down our throat like it's something special. It's a league that can't survive on the money it makes and like any other league that can't make it financially it should not be artifically propped up.

The WUSA was a more watchable product but couldn't make money to survive and ended, like any other business venture that can't support itself.

What's worse is that the WNBA actually even had a strike, if I remember correctly. No league just starting out should allow their players to have such power, that's just insanely stupid. If the league wasn't being backed by the cash flow of the NBA it would have died right then and there. That shows that the players and league management are complete morons (Example: You work for a new struggling company and you go on strike, there's a very good chance that you just lost your job because the company ends up going under because of your actions).

Who is jamming this down your throat and how? HB started a thread to cheer for a Detroit sports team. How is this being "jammed down" your throat?

I'm with you in the preference for WUSA games to WNBA games. I also agree that their silly "strike" was retarded. (As was the bitter comment afterward from some of the people. DUH! The NBA is carrying you, if they feel they can't spend MORE money, deal with it.)

I don't have any problem with anyone who didn't like or care for either league. If it ain't your cup of tea, it ain't. I just have a problem with assholes who feel they must jump into a thread anytime female athletes are mentioned and interject that 1) she is or they are obviously gay and 2) they can't compete with their male counterpart. Who gives a crap?

[daedalus]

Originally posted by WussGawd
OK, first of all, I strenuously object to my statement being taken out of context. As stated, I DO NOT have a problem with women's sports in general (and indeed find some of them at least as entertaining as men's sports...see tennis, volleyball, track and field, soccer). As for your statement about my comment (conveniently robbed of its much needed context) being asinine, I'd suggest a visit to alt.pot.kettle.black. Particularly since you then lump it with statements about lesbian fans I did NOT and would not make. I could care less whether WNBA fans are gay/lesbian/transgender/hetero/or prefer sex with sheep, I simply don't find it entertaining.

What I do have a problem with is that women in the WNBA can't shoot or pass as well as men. OK, obviously, dunking isn't going to be as big a part of the game, but frankly, the couple of times I've tried to watch a WNBA game, it was like watching a game between a couple of bad high school teams...turnovers galore, bad outside shooting, little dribble penetration, bad defense.

And for those of you who romanticize this as being a purer form of the game as Naismith intended, I encourage you to take a good look at the stats of late 50's, early 60's NBA teams...none of them could shoot or pass either. It led to such things as Bob Cousy making the hall of fame despite never shooting 45% from the field for a season, and a few other gems.

And I'll save my thoughts on the current state of the NBA for another post.

I don't have a single problem with you liking or not liking them. As I said in my previous post, if it isn't your cup of tea then it isn't. What I do have a problem with is the assertion that it's crappy "because they aren't as good as the men". Who cares? It isn't the same product. Enjoy or don't enjoy it for what it is, not because you want to compare an apple with an orange and say that the apple sucks because it wasn't orange-y tasting enough.

I'm aware that you didn't make the comment regarding the "lesbians". That's why I didn't put the name with the quote. Re-reading it, however, it does look bad and looked like I lumped your comment with his and I do apologize.

[WussGawd]

Originally posted by daedalus
I don't have a single problem with you liking or not liking them. As I said in my previous post, if it isn't your cup of tea then it isn't. What I do have a problem with is the assertion that it's crappy "because they aren't as good as the men". Who cares? It isn't the same product. Enjoy or don't enjoy it for what it is, not because you want to compare an apple with an orange and say that the apple sucks because it wasn't orange-y tasting enough.

I'm aware that you didn't make the comment regarding the "lesbians". That's why I didn't put the name with the quote. Re-reading it, however, it does look bad and looked like I lumped your comment with his and I do apologize.

Re. your first paragraph, point taken. Then again, posting a WNBA topic in as testosterone-laden a forum as this one is almost asking for such a reply.

Actually, the problem I have with the WNBA probably doesn't even have as much to do with the women vs. the men thing as much as it does that the David Stern/Disney marketing machine has hyped this league as something bigger than it is from day one. It's great that women have a place to play professional basketball (I'm not interested, but somebody probably is), but the WNBA (and women's professional basketball), in the grand scheme of things, is no more important than MLS, no more important than the male Indoor Lacrosse League, no more important to the average sports fan than the Arena Football League, and certainly no more important than the WUSA was...yet it gets ten times the press of any other women's sports venture outside of perhaps women's college basketball and women's tennis.

I'm sure I'll get similar comments when I post about the Women's World Cup later this weekend, as soccer is a women's sport I do enjoy watching.

Apology accepted.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by WussGawd
Re. your first paragraph, point taken. Then again, posting a WNBA topic in as testosterone-laden a forum as this one is almost asking for such a reply.

Possibly. But, then, this is supposed to be a message board with slightly more intelligence.

Actually, the problem I have with the WNBA probably doesn't even have as much to do with the women vs. the men thing as much as it does that the David Stern/Disney marketing machine has hyped this league as something bigger than it is from day one. It's great that women have a place to play professional basketball (I'm not interested, but somebody probably is), but the WNBA (and women's professional basketball), in the grand scheme of things, is no more important than MLS, no more important than the male Indoor Lacrosse League, no more important to the average sports fan than the Arena Football League, and certainly no more important than the WUSA was...yet it gets ten times the press of any other women's sports venture outside of perhaps women's college basketball and women's tennis.

Hey, now, show some lurve for Lacrosse! Or Josh Chub'll come back to ban you!

Heh. Seriously, though, of COURSE Stern/NBA are going to hype WNBA and get them press. It's their pet/sub-project. If another league had a sub-league in the same setup, you would expect THEM to as well (unless, of course, it was baseball because expecting competencies or intelligence from Selig/MLB would be silly). Sadly, I don't think MLS has enough clout to try to help WUSA yet. If you were sponsoring someone at work, would you NOT be trying to help them in whatever way you can?

[EagleFan]

Originally posted by daedalus
Heh. Seriously, though, of COURSE Stern/NBA are going to hype WNBA and get them press.

That's what I meant by jammed down our throat, not this thread.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by EagleFan
That's what I meant by jammed down our throat, not this thread.

Oh. Yeah, definitely.

But, then, if you made an investment venture into something, you'd try to support it any way you can, too.

[ice4277]

Originally posted by WussGawd
David Stern/Disney marketing machine has hyped this league as something bigger than it is from day one.

Of course, they've been doing this with the NBA for years as well. Turn on any SportsCenter during the season and you would think everybody and their brother is watching the NBA. Then look at all the empty seats in arenas and tell me if this is the case.

[cuervo72]

Ok, here's why I don't watch the WNBA:

1) Basketball is not one of my favorite sports, and besides watching some ACC (and some other NCAA) games, the NCAA tournament, and maybe a handful of NBA games, basketball is off of the radar screen for me.

2) I am a bit of a sports traditionalist, and have a hard time getting involved in new sports or leagues that have little history, or that I haven't been involved in since I was a kid (i.e., I haven't been following them for 20-25 years)

3) The WNBA plays from May through September....RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MLB BASEBALL SEASON!

[Marmel]

Originally posted by Schmidty
Wow.

I don't consider myself to be a liberal, but even I can't believe how putridly sexist some of you guys are. Probably a case of having small penises (Marmel) or domineering mothers/wives. Your masculinity feels threatened by women in positions of power or competition. Pathetic.

I assistant coach the 7th grade girls basketball team in Kentwood, and although the girls don't have the physical tools that boys have, they have just as much desire and love for the game. They play the game the right way, because they listen to coaching and have no macho need to show off.

I am a basketball junkie, and I will tell you this: The women's game is the purist form of basketball left.

Anyone who truly watched any of the WNBA Finals without prejudice cannot deny that the games were competitive, intense, and truly enjoyable to watch. There was no stupid showboating, selfishness, or sleezy machismo. There was simply pure, unfiltered competitive team basketball on display.

I feel sorry for people who can't get over their own prejudice, macho issues, or inability to think outside the box, because they are missing out on something worthwhile.

I now feel that much more gay just for knowing you. Thanks a lot Schmidty.