"Human Sheild" in Iraq faces fine or prison

The_herd · 08-11-2003, 12:32 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._shield_fine_1

U.S. Fines Woman for Being 'Human Shield'
Mon Aug 11, 9:42 AM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!

SARASOTA, Fla. - A retired schoolteacher who went to Iraq (news - web sites) to serve as a "human shield" against the U.S. invasion is facing thousands of dollars in U.S. government fines, which she is refusing to pay.

The U.S. Department of the Treasury said in a March letter to Faith Fippinger that she broke the law by crossing the Iraqi border before the war. Her travel to Iraq violated U.S. sanctions that prohibited American citizens from engaging in "virtually all direct or indirect commercial, financial or trade transactions with Iraq."

She and others from 30 countries spread out through Iraq to prevent the war. She spent about three months there. Only about 20 of nearly 300 "human shields" were Americans, she said.

Fippinger, who returned home May 4, is being fined at least $10,000, but she has refused to pay. She could face up to 12 years in prison.

In her response to the charges, she wrote the government that "if it comes to fines or imprisonment, "please be aware that I will not contribute money to the United States government to continue the buildup of its arsenal of weapons." Since she won't pay, she said, "perhaps the alternative should be considered."

The government also has asked Fippinger, 62, to detail her travels to Iraq and any financial transactions she made. In her response, Fippinger wrote that the only money she spent was on food and emergency supplies.

If Fippinger does not pay, the fine may increase, and the money will be drawn from her retirement paycheck, her Social Security (news - web sites) check or any of her assets, officials said.

"She was (in Iraq) in violation of U.S. sanctions," said Taylor Griffin, a Treasury Department (news - web sites) spokesman. "That's what happens."

Shortly before the U.S. invasion in March, Fippinger was one of several dozen human shields scattered around a refinery in Baghdad.

"We are planning to stay here in the refinery if war breaks out," Fippinger said at the time. "We are staying here because we think this war is unjust."

Ben E Lou · 08-11-2003, 01:31 PM

Fair enough. Whether you agree or disagree with her actions, if she doesn't pay the fine, she should go to prison.

damnMikeBrown · 08-11-2003, 01:38 PM

I'm going to disagree here. A retired schoolteacher, putting her life on the line as a form of political protest. She did not give aid & comfort, she did not actively oppose her government. She merely protested.

If it comes to light she did more than that, then sure. If she donated funds to something other than medical supplies. If she assisted with Iraqi troops or in any way contributed intelligence, in short, if she aided the Iraqis, then yeah, go ahead & punish her.

Bee · 08-11-2003, 01:46 PM

I may not agree with her actions, but I don't think she needs to go to prison for 12 years. With all the criminals we have in our society that end up getting probation, I don't feel too threatened by this 62 year old retired school teacher in comparison.

I can see them fining her and if she refuses to pay taking that money out of her Social Security or whatever, but a $10,000 fine seems a little much considering how much she probably spent in Iraq. If it comes out that she was making contributions directly to the Iraqi government, that's different but it sounds like she was just buying food.

Swaggs · 08-11-2003, 01:50 PM

I think she deserves the fine and/or imprisonment.

Even though I was/am strongly against the war, I think the idea of American "human shields" facing our young men and women over there is deplorable. There are enough factors working against them while they are there--they do not need variables like the one posed by this lady.

sterlingice · 08-11-2003, 01:58 PM

Darn, I was hoping Sean Penn was heading to jail

SI

Noble_Platypus · 08-11-2003, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by damnMikeBrown
I'm going to disagree here. A retired schoolteacher, putting her life on the line as a form of political protest. She did not give aid & comfort, she did not actively oppose her government. She merely protested.

If it comes to light she did more than that, then sure. If she donated funds to something other than medical supplies. If she assisted with Iraqi troops or in any way contributed intelligence, in short, if she aided the Iraqis, then yeah, go ahead & punish her.

If she would have protested in the US she wouldnt be going to jail. If the law was that no Americans could travel to Iraq while the war was going on and she went anyway, she is no longer a protester, she is a law breaker. That being said if you break the law and there is a fine of some sort I think she should pay or go to jail. She knew it was illegal to go and there would be consequences. I drive over the speed limit all the time, if I get a ticket I know I have to pay up or face the music. Same deal here. Whether or not you agree with the war or the law, its still a law.You break it you pay.

sabotai · 08-11-2003, 03:48 PM

Her giving aid & comfort is not the issue. She broke the law by going there. No one's political opinions are above the law. I don't think she should go to jail. They're crowded enough. Just take the fine from her.

JonInMiddleGA · 08-11-2003, 03:52 PM

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Abe Sargent · 08-11-2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by damnMikeBrown
I'm going to disagree here. A retired schoolteacher, putting her life on the line as a form of political protest. She did not give aid & comfort, she did not actively oppose her government. She merely protested.

If it comes to light she did more than that, then sure. If she donated funds to something other than medical supplies. If she assisted with Iraqi troops or in any way contributed intelligence, in short, if she aided the Iraqis, then yeah, go ahead & punish her.

Thoreau went to prison for refusing to pay his taxes because he would not support America during the Mexican-American War. He thought it was just. He claimed that the injust was people who tried not to paid their taxes but then also tried to avoid the consequences. Civil disobediance, he claimed, should always result in punishment. And it is incumbant upon the person to accept their punishment.

Someone breaks a law that they disagreee with, and refuses to pay a fine, and she goes to jail willingly, then that person is respectable. Someone you can look up to.

But let's not dodge the consequences. A known consequence of Thoreau not paying his taxes was that he would go to jail. A known consequence of not paying a fine for entering a sanctioned country is jail time. There is no difference, and a just legal system would not treat someone who did not pay fines/taxes for ethical reasons differently than someone who was trying to cheat the system.

-Anxiety

Franklinnoble · 08-11-2003, 04:38 PM

Bah. Some bleeting-heart liberal millionaire will pay the fine for her.

sabotai · 08-11-2003, 05:33 PM

Franklin, dunno if that's actually legal...

Killebrew · 08-11-2003, 05:35 PM

If you don't do the time don't pay the crime and if the dunce cap fits you must acquit.

Fritz · 08-11-2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Killebrew
If you don't do the time don't pay the crime and if the dunce cap fits you must acquit.

you need to stop staying up for those all night Twin Peaks marathons.

Franklinnoble · 08-11-2003, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sabotai
Franklin, dunno if that's actually legal...

Maybe... maybe not... I don't think there's anything keeping some rich dude from giving this woman a bunch of cash so she can pay her fine.

Killebrew · 08-11-2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fritz
you need to stop staying up for those all night Twin Peaks marathons.

You need to stop waking me up to watch those stupid Twin Peaks marathons.

CAsterling · 08-11-2003, 07:37 PM

Ah America, Land of the Free......

Lets see, a goverment attempts to jail or fine one of its citizens because they chose to freely travel somewhere else.

Is it me or is there something wrong with this picture......were I this person I would take this if to an International court and sue the crap of of the US goverment. I think that you could make a good case that no country can punish its citizens for freedom of travel outside its own borders, it can only advise as travel outside of its country that will pose a danger or is inadvisable.

Whilst I don't agree with what she did, I don't believe you can punish her for something like this.....and I would willingly cause the US goverment as much trouble as possible if it were me.

sterlingice · 08-11-2003, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Killebrew

That's a great icon

SI

08-11-2003, 01:31 PM	#2
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Fair enough. Whether you agree or disagree with her actions, if she doesn't pay the fine, she should go to prison. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

08-11-2003, 01:50 PM	#5
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I think she deserves the fine and/or imprisonment. Even though I was/am strongly against the war, I think the idea of American "human shields" facing our young men and women over there is deplorable. There are enough factors working against them while they are there--they do not need variables like the one posed by this lady. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

08-11-2003, 01:58 PM	#6
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Darn, I was hoping Sean Penn was heading to jail SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

08-11-2003, 03:52 PM	#9
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

08-11-2003, 07:37 PM	#17
CAsterling High School JV Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Herndon, Va	Ah America, Land of the Free...... Lets see, a goverment attempts to jail or fine one of its citizens because they chose to freely travel somewhere else. Is it me or is there something wrong with this picture......were I this person I would take this if to an International court and sue the crap of of the US goverment. I think that you could make a good case that no country can punish its citizens for freedom of travel outside its own borders, it can only advise as travel outside of its country that will pose a danger or is inadvisable. Whilst I don't agree with what she did, I don't believe you can punish her for something like this.....and I would willingly cause the US goverment as much trouble as possible if it were me. __________________ The funniest comedy duo I have ever seen - www.magaga.com/

08-11-2003, 01:38 PM	#3
damnMikeBrown College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Cincinnati, OH	I'm going to disagree here. A retired schoolteacher, putting her life on the line as a form of political protest. She did not give aid & comfort, she did not actively oppose her government. She merely protested. If it comes to light she did more than that, then sure. If she donated funds to something other than medical supplies. If she assisted with Iraqi troops or in any way contributed intelligence, in short, if she aided the Iraqis, then yeah, go ahead & punish her.

08-11-2003, 01:46 PM	#4
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I may not agree with her actions, but I don't think she needs to go to prison for 12 years. With all the criminals we have in our society that end up getting probation, I don't feel too threatened by this 62 year old retired school teacher in comparison. I can see them fining her and if she refuses to pay taking that money out of her Social Security or whatever, but a $10,000 fine seems a little much considering how much she probably spent in Iraq. If it comes out that she was making contributions directly to the Iraqi government, that's different but it sounds like she was just buying food.

08-11-2003, 03:48 PM	#8
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Her giving aid & comfort is not the issue. She broke the law by going there. No one's political opinions are above the law. I don't think she should go to jail. They're crowded enough. Just take the fine from her.

08-11-2003, 04:38 PM	#11
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Bah. Some bleeting-heart liberal millionaire will pay the fine for her.

08-11-2003, 05:33 PM	#12
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Franklin, dunno if that's actually legal...

08-11-2003, 05:35 PM	#13
Killebrew H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Feb 2003	If you don't do the time don't pay the crime and if the dunce cap fits you must acquit.

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