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Old 08-08-2003, 08:37 PM   #1
RendeR
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
ok, I know I'm lame

But I'm having a seriously hard time really enjoying FOF4. The look and feel of the game is clunky. I understand that some people like the expanded player positions, I don't, its annoying as hell. If you have injuries you aren't going to look for the best inside ISLB on the market, yer just going to find the best LB on the market. I'm sure every team uses DE's on both sides of the line and moves them around at whim...why then must I keep specifically labeled players on my roster to fill the spots? I just want to carry 4 DE's, not 2 right and 2 left or some other combination!!!!!!

I like some of the changes, the expanded player ratings, the better AI in free agency, the better prices on backup players, lots of things... but I'm just not confortable with the flow of it all.....

so here's my dilemma, I want to go back to playing the 2001 version (yeah I know, I suck) but I really want to use the 2003 roster set and would LOVE to have the historical draft files able to be used in a modern game setting.....

someone please help me find FOF bliss....

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Old 08-08-2003, 08:48 PM   #2
Ksyrup
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I'm having the same issues you are. In fact, I just picked the game up tonight for the first time in months, and 10 games into my first season, I got the exact injury/player replacement issues you describe. Every time I try to get into the game, I have the same dilemma - I have to cut 10 guys a year just to find specific position replacements for injured players. It's just not that much fun.
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Old 08-08-2003, 08:51 PM   #3
FBPro
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True, but I have more issues w/ TCY (read recruit-a-thon).

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Old 08-08-2003, 09:00 PM   #4
Fritz
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing
I dont understand the injury issue. You can free substitute L/R types

3 QB
3 RB
2 FB
2 TE
4 FL/SE
3 LT/RT
3 LG/RG
2 C
3 LDE/RDE
3 LDT/RDT/NT
3 SLB/WLB
2 or 3 SILB/WILB/MLB
4 LCB/RCB
3 SS/FS
1 K
1 P

more or less Just like FOF2001
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:02 PM   #5
Fritz
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dola, if the L/R names throw you, just swap the graphics with the stuff on Senator's site.
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:28 PM   #6
RendeR
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
its not just the L/R issue, for example the linebackers:

you must have at least 3 inside and 3 outside LB on your roster, please return to the roster screen and add or adjust players before continuing....


this is rediculous. if I have 5 linebackers and I'm playing a 4-3 defense, I want my best 3 guys out there, even if that means they're not in their favorite spot.

its just annoying, its a change that really has dropped my interest in fof4


maybe I'm just being picky, I dunno...and frankly, the graphic are the WORST problem, this game is UGLY, good god man......No offense to Jim or his graphic artist, they went with the old old look, I'm assuming because it was easiest. But man its nasty to look at.
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:38 PM   #7
Ksyrup
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Location: In Absentia
Well first, I recognize that the player can switch from left to right. I have two issues with the new specific positions:

(1) If the L/R distinctions doesn't really matter, why have them at all? It looks extremely cluttered the way it is now. Simply put, I prefer it the old way.

(2) I will admit that I still don't quite understand the distinction between LB types. Too many S, W, I, and M's for me to make sense of who falls under which type. Or, I should say, I understand the groupings, but I don't think about those particular groupings when I'm drafting or reviewing free agents. And from my tests, most of these guys can switch between the two LB groupings with minimal ability loss (96/97% retained). If the difference is that miniscule, why not allow them to switch between the positions like the L/R positions are permitted?

Aside from those issues, the injury issue still bugs me. I thinnk I know what it is, though. In FOF4, there are now 1 or 2 week injuries where the guy is out. Before, severity of injury was tied to length of time out. So, if a guy was out 1-2 weeks, he was usually probable and could stay on the roster and perhaps even start. Now, there's a chance that the guy will be out for 1 or 2 weeks, meaning I've got to possibly cut a guy if the injured guy just happens to take me below the minimum position threshold. And those injuries are in addition to the 8 week or season-enders, where the guy is definitly out.

I recognize that those injuries are more realistic, but it makes the game less fun for me when I have to cut 10%+ of my team every year just to be able to sim games. I think that's really at the heart of my issues with the game. I spend most of my time putting together my team during the off-season - I don't enjoy de-contructing my team simply because my 4th CB is out for 1 week, and I've got to have a 4th CB for that 1 week.
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:41 PM   #8
RendeR
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excellent point as well there Kyrup
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Old 08-08-2003, 09:52 PM   #9
Ksyrup
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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On the injury issue, I understand why there is no "practice squad," since in real life, those guys are not really tied to any particular team and can be signed by any team, just like a free agent. However, what would work for me as a compromise, would be to get rid of the "due to past injustices, X player is unwilling to sign" feature, except, say, if a team signs a guy to a 5 year deal and dumps him after 2-3 years (just an example of where there might be actual animosity).

Essentially, do away with that feature for the scrubs I have to cut just to sign someone else for next week's game. That way, when my good player is recovered from his 1 or 2 week injury, I can dump the guy I had to pick up to replace him and resign the guy I originally had to dump, with no consequences. I mean, we're talking guys who are fortunate to even have a job - do you think someone like that would complain in real life if his old team came calling a few weeks after cutting him? Hell no, he'd be grateful for the opportunity.

I think that would take care of the issue for me.
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Old 08-08-2003, 10:00 PM   #10
Fritz
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According to the game notes the L/R do have some impact on how well a player perfroms in a slot. That said, if you have a few good SLB it is probably worth it to slot them as starters at WLB or MLB.


edit

RenerR - you are not lame for not getting into a game.
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Last edited by Fritz : 08-08-2003 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 08-08-2003, 10:07 PM   #11
Ksyrup
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That's what I thought, but it's been a while since I read the notes. So the game is designed to make you stick with the L/R distinctions. Meaning, if you've got a great RT but shit at LT, you should look to sign a free agent LT, not just the best available T, right?

I guess it boils down to the fact that I prefer a bit more simplicity in the game, at least with this particular feature, then the game provides. The previous games didn't suffer for lack of L/R distinctions. This isn't like Baseball Mogul, which completely ignored (still ignores?) the fact that Lefty/Righty matchups are integral to baseball. I don't see these positions as being quite that necessary. What FOF4 makes up for in realism, it loses in playability, IMO.
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Old 08-08-2003, 10:37 PM   #12
Buccaneer
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
Haven't we gone through all of this countless times? It is not designed as a game but as an accurate on-field simulation. You have to play to its strength of the roster and gameplan details, nothing else can really hold you for a length of time, imo.

It has been two years since I have played TCY and I am thinking of starting it up again. 90% of the game is a Recruiting Simulation and because of that, I still wonder how long that can hold an interest without becoming repetitive.
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Old 08-08-2003, 10:40 PM   #13
Ksyrup
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
Leave me alone. I had to get my quota of participating in at least one FOF-related thread during this calendar year, and this was it.

We'll talk in 10 months.
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Old 08-08-2003, 11:28 PM   #14
RendeR
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by Buccaneer
Haven't we gone through all of this countless times? It is not designed as a game but as an accurate on-field simulation. You have to play to its strength of the roster and gameplan details, nothing else can really hold you for a length of time, imo.

It has been two years since I have played TCY and I am thinking of starting it up again. 90% of the game is a Recruiting Simulation and because of that, I still wonder how long that can hold an interest without becoming repetitive.


but this is just the point, it IS NOT accurate to the on field play.

If I need a DE or a LB to fill in for an injured player, or I just happen to sign 5 middle linebackers to my roster because they are the people with the talent, I should be able to play them in ANY LB position. look at WR, players aren't labeled as flankers or Split ends in the NFL any more, they simply play the spot on the field. Any reciever can line up as flanker 1 or flanker 2 or split end 1 on any given play.

If its trying to be accurate to reality, its failing badly.

as for TCY, I can stomach about 3 seasons and I won't touch teh game again for months...its FAR too repetitive with all the micro managing it requires.



BUT!!!

This thread is getting off my point, or better stated, my question:

Are there updated rosters for FOF 2001/2002? Can the historical draft files be edited/updated to be usable after starting a game with the 2002/2003 rosters?


all debates about the quality of the product aside, I still love one version of it and want to be able to enjoy it further. Any positive help appreciated!
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Old 08-08-2003, 11:57 PM   #15
QuikSand
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Quote:
Originally posted by RendeR
If I need a DE or a LB to fill in for an injured player, or I just happen to sign 5 middle linebackers to my roster because they are the people with the talent, I should be able to play them in ANY LB position. look at WR, players aren't labeled as flankers or Split ends in the NFL any more, they simply play the spot on the field. Any reciever can line up as flanker 1 or flanker 2 or split end 1 on any given play.


What from your paragraph above does FOF4 fail to handle appropriately?

-You want to be able to play any LB at any LB position. Check.
-You want to be able to play any WR anywhere on the WR depth chart. Check.

What's the problem?

I happen to think your statement is also factually incorrect - I don't think every team's WRs will routinely line up at every position on the field - quite a lot of teams still have specific roles for wideouts, whether SE/FL or X/Y/Z or whatever. LB, on most teams, is even more specialized - on many teams the S/W split is a toss-up, but playing MLB (or ILB) and OLB are rather different things, in most schemes. Most teams have different reserves prepared to go at MLB and OLB.

But how the NFL works is secondary, since your gripe is about how FOF works. And I fail to see any material problem in the way FOF works in this regard. (The weakness, if any, seems to be in the positional requirements, but that's not what you're touching on) Or are we just talking about trivial issues - like the letters or colors that appear beside the player's name, and that sort of thing?
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Old 08-09-2003, 01:23 PM   #16
RendeR
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
Its mostly the positional requirements, Why should I be required to carry 2 pathetic excuses for outside linebackers for example, when there are two much more qualified inside linebackers that I can play in any position?


but besides my own personal disagreement with how it handles things, or how unnecessary the extra micro management is. I just want to go back to the game I am much more comfortable playing because it ISn't so overly picky about player positions and requirements.

Still hoping someone has info on player files for the older versions...
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Old 08-09-2003, 02:02 PM   #17
illinifan999
Pro Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: VA
My only problem with the game is that I on average for a season have 6 or 7 guys go down with season ending injuries. 4 or 5 guys with 8+ weeks of injury. And at least every player on my team gets hurt for at least 2 weeks in the game. Even with the time spent in the training room drastically increased.
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Old 08-09-2003, 06:24 PM   #18
QuikSand
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Quote:
Originally posted by RendeR
Still hoping someone has info on player files for the older versions...


I think the reason for the absence of response here is that there don't exist any files like what you're discussing. FOF 2001 was an EA product all the way, and they didn't even support a fucking patch, much less any ongoing effort from the author.

I think the only "update" to that game was the weird morph EA put out under the name FOF 2002, which was just updated rosters and schedule, with (apparently) a few new bugs tossed in for good measure.


Good luck, in any event, finding something you enjoy.
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