Miami accepts? Hampton Roads Paper says so.

[digamma]

I find it a bit strange that a Hampton Roads, VA paper breaks the story, but apparently Miami has accepted the ACC offer.

Read all about it here.

[cthomer5000]

ESPN is also saying unconfirmed University sources say it will be yes.

The question now becomes who is (or is there) a 3rd invitee?

[albionmoonlight]

I think (not that it matters what I think) that there will be a third team in place by the time the new TV contract rolls around.

Does anyone know if these two extra schools will allow the ACC to expand over the vetos of Duke, NC, and a third school?

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
Does anyone know if these two extra schools will allow the ACC to expand over the vetos of Duke, NC, and a third school?

That's what's strange. Maybe they can't expand to 12 right now... but won't Miami and Va Tech have a vote in things next year?

Even without it, I would think now that Virginia Tech is in, Virginia can say yes to any 12th team. Therefore they should be able to come up with a 7-2 vote for a 12th team.

Or they can just wait for a 9-2 vote next year.

[ScottVib]

Associated Press says Miami has officially accepted the bid to the ACC (according to ACC sources)

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/colleges/6199858.htm

[Wolfpack]

I don't think there will be a third invitee just yet. With all the rumor-mongering that the NCAA is considering lowering the limit for championship games to ten teams, it may not be necessary, though it still means the ACC is an ungainly 11 rather than a neat 12.

I think the ACC will still go to 12, simply because only a CCG in football could justify sacrificing home-and-homes in one season in basketball and two seasons in football. To go to 11 and stop gets none of the added benefits of 12 and kills a lot of the benefits of 9 or 10.

The question then becomes whether they will look for a twelfth sometime over the summer (unlikely after all that's happened and they still need to get the Big East case dismissed, which shouldn't be too hard), by next spring (somewhat likely, though Miami and VT won't be members and have their voices heard on who they would want...they might "advise"), or by next fall at the latest (with Miami and VT in the fold officially and able to vote), since the ACC's TV deal for football comes due in 2005, and they would want the twelfth in place and ready to go by fall 2005 (perhaps a year delay for the football program, joining in all other sports, like FSU did in 1991) to have the leverage for the negotiations.

[ScottVib]

dola,

I've heard ND is the first plan, when the ACC is turned down by ND, then Louisville may be the backup unless the ECU alums are successful in getting the NC Government to try and stump for ECU for the 12th spot.

[Wolfpack]

ACC by-laws require 75 percent or greater approval on expansion. With 11 teams, nine votes are needed.

There is a complicating wrinkle. Say Duke continues to be stubborn mules and refuses to vote for a twelfth, even if they already expanded to 11 over Duke's objections. Remember how VT used the state legislature to bully their way into the ACC? Already the fans and supporters of East Carolina are beginning to lobby their legislators to intervene to get the Pirates into the ACC. I've noted elsewhere that the NC legislature is not above meddling in things like this. (Several eastern NC legislators, including some of the most powerful members in the legislature, "persuaded" UNC and State to play ECU in football or face some threats to their funding)

Now, if they threaten State and UNC by witholding funding if they don't support an ECU candidacy to the ACC, then if the schools caved like they did on the football game scheduling, you'd have three votes to kill any expansion candidate besides ECU (again assuming Duke remains head-up-ass on this). However, none of the none-NC schools really wants another NC school in the league as they perceive the league as too-NC centric as it is. As a result, you'd have 2-7 (or 2-9 after VT and Miami join) votes for ECU and 6-3 (or 8-3) votes for any other candidates. Impasse. They may have to change the by-laws to two-thirds in approval to circumvent this issue next time. (I just know that the ECU fans will get some headway on this. They're incredibly obnoxious about their football team, yet nowhere to be seen during basketball season, unless you see them wearing Duke or UNC colors.)

[albionmoonlight]

If the ACC presidents/ADs are smart and discuss all of the contingencies among themselves before going public, they may be able to avoid the mess that they had this time.

[Anrhydeddu]

SU should have played hardball all along. Now for its wussy efforts, they get stuck in a really bad conference, unless the Big 10+ is in the plans. Fuck the Big East.

[WSUCougar]

I have read that Penn State is disenchanted with the Big 10, and may be open to returning to the Big East. If they could pull in Louisville or Cincinnati (or obviously Notre Dame), I think they could still be a viable conference. Perhaps a longshot, but it's a possibility at least.

[tucker342]

I hate it how the politicans try to push schools in to the conference, like Virginia being forced to vote for Virginia Tech, and maybe NC schools having to vote in ECU... I think that's really lame...

[tucker342]

dola-

Miami scheduled a 4:00 ET news conference to offically announce that they are leaving the big east...

[Swaggs]

I am just glad this is all over.

Hopefully Va Tech and Miami will both make the BCS this year with all the cash going to the Big East.

[Butter]

At least the Big East won't have those 47 team conference basketball tournaments any more.

Hopefully Miami, VA Tech and another ACC school all make the BCS in 2005.

[Butter]

Dola

And Miami will win it all when their offense grabs and pulls each and every defender to the ground on the final play of the game.

[mckerney]

Miami would never get bullshit calls their way like that. Who do you think they are, Ohio State?

[MylesKnight]

Let the Shakedown Begin!!

Who's Next? Big East? Big Ten? C-USA? Mountain West? WAC? Sun Belt? MAC? Who knows, SEC or Big 12 even?

Please just get UCF into an ALL-SPORTS CONFERENCE at the end of all of this.. Preferably in the Big East or CUSA! Thank You!

[Radii]

My guess is that the Big East moves pretty quickly to solidify themselves again, we've already heard about Louisville, I bet the grab Cincinnati as well, and then the big question will be do they remain an 8 team football conference with a lot of basketball only schools or do they go through a major shakedown and increase the number of football schools and drop some basketball only schools? Or perhaps they add 4 schools to become a 10 team football conference + 16 team basketball conference... it'll be interesting.

My main prediction: When all the dust has settled, Conference USA is the conference that truly gets screwed.

[Wolfpack]

I think the team with the strong position is Notre Dame at this point. The Big East, ACC, and Big 10 will all come calling for them. They can see if any of those three have anything to offer. The Big 10 and ACC aren't likely to be accomodating to any strenuous demands by ND (i.e. keeping of TV revenues, less-than-full conference schedules, etc). However, the Big East at this point may do so. The ND admins realize the Big East is over the barrel, I'm sure. The Big East would be pretty much willing to give ND what they want just so long as the Big East could claim that ND was a football member, allowing them to keep a spot in the BCS in the process. ND will still likely stay independent, though, as long as NBC is willing to cozy up to them for TV rights.

[Anrhydeddu]

I bet the grab Cincinnati as well

Why would they do something stupid like this???

[Easy Mac]

b/c the Bengals are outmatched in the NFL, and it'd be another Rutgers for the Big Least

[Radii]

Actually I remembered their name coming up a lot somewhere, it was the page MylesKnight had posted awhile ago listing tons of conference shakedown scenarios by school...

http://clearstage.com/collegesportsinfo/grid/

Of the teams listed in potential big east expansion Louisville and Cincinnati seem to be the most promising to me. I don't think ECU has that much to offer, and does Marshall even have a basketball team? Of course they could also go with one of the Florida teams as well.

[Fritz]

The Daily Press is a poor paper.

[ScottVib]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
Why would they do something stupid like this???

Cincy's been to a few bowl games recently, is a decent market and Huggins and the basketball team are a nice bonus. Three straight bowl games for Cincy and have 6 winning seasons the last 8 years, they are the defending Conference USA co-champs.

There just isn't much out there to choose from if your the Big East football conference now... and Cincy is one of the best of a bad lot.

[Marmel]

Cinci and Louisville would be good pickups for the Big East, but beyond those two teams, there really are no other schools worth pursuing.

I have seen Army/Navy (for the tradition and the strong fan base)and a few Florida Directional Schools (to keep Florida open for recruiting and the markets) mentioned but none of those schools are really going to help.

Also, after seeing what has already transprired, I would be quite surprised if the Big East did move fast on this. We (we being various college messageboards I read) have speculated on these recent events for at least two years now. If we saw it coming how did the Big East not see it and not do anything to prevent it (at least try to prevent it)? The Big East has shown they are not willing to move quickly on anything....maybe they have learned their lesson? In addition, some of these schools might now be hesistant about moving to this new Big East conference without Miami in it. If the Big East had offered these schools a year or two ago, Miami might still be around and the conference would be on very solid ground.

[Anrhydeddu]

I'm just focusing on football, which is what financially drives the conferences (does it not?). Without Miami and VT, the Big East's prestige falls way, way down. Louisville and Cincinnati add almost nothing, only ND and/or Penn State can replace UM. (Despite the statement from the Big East saying that it is still an elite conference. Without the football powers, that is a joke.)

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
Why would they do something stupid like this???

Because the Big East acutally cares about maintaining it's basketball conference. Their ideal setup would be 16 members:

8 football/basketball members
8 basketball only members

Louisville and Cincy are respectable football additions and solid basketball additions.

[Swaggs]

Although the Big East is obviously no longer one of the elite conferences, I still think having Pitt, WVU, Syracuse, and BC makes them the most deserving conference for the last BCS spot.

I think the issue will probably be are they good enough to keep that last BCS, or will it become another wild card spot (ie: another Notre Dame chance). Conference USA and the WAC or Mountain West are still not as good as a conference with those four schools in it.

[scooper]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
I'm just focusing on football, which is what financially drives the conferences (does it not?). Without Miami and VT, the Big East's prestige falls way, way down. Louisville and Cincinnati add almost nothing, only ND and/or Penn State can replace UM. (Despite the statement from the Big East saying that it is still an elite conference. Without the football powers, that is a joke.)

Louisville has a stronger program than you seem to give them credit for. As for Cincinnati, I live here and I am unique in that I despise the Thuggins regime in college basketball, but I really like UC football. I catch a game or two a year. They play exciting football, they're competetive within their league, they just can't get the people around here to care or get over that hump.

[SunDancer]

What about South Florida's potential. Every one says UCF, but South Florida has a major-market in Florida, and has the facilites to compete. Outside of Football at UCF, not sure how they would make the jump.

[Easy Mac]

I don't see the ACC adding a Florida school. 3 schools in Florida would disrupt the NC contingents power base, and threaten their hold on the conference.

[SunDancer]

I meant for the Big East.

[albionmoonlight]

Here's an off the wall suggestion. Vandy moves to the ACC (where it is more of a natural fit with Duke and Wake Forest than it is in the SEC) and the SEC takes Louisville (a natural rival with Kentucky) to stay at 12. Vandy does not have strong athletics, but it has the Nashville market, is in the ACC "footprint," and is a strong academic school--giving the ACC more of an indentity in that direction. And I think that given the choice to join the SEC over the ACC or Big East, Louisville would want to make that move. The Big East still has teams like Marshall, ECU, Cinn., UCF, Penn State, Notre Dame, etc. to take and stay competitive. Finally, the SEC would lose a school that did not have a top 25 basketball and football program and replace it with one that does.

Why couldn't this work?

[Butter]

Why would Notre Dame or Penn State want to join the Big East?

Judging from the talk in most official publications, they are contacting C-USA and the Atlantic 10 only so far. We should all just consider this Penn State and Notre Dame talk the talk of dreamers wishing their now C-USA level conference back to the status of a power. I don't see it.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
Here's an off the wall suggestion. Vandy moves to the ACC (where it is more of a natural fit with Duke and Wake Forest than it is in the SEC) and the SEC takes Louisville (a natural rival with Kentucky) to stay at 12. Vandy does not have strong athletics, but it has the Nashville market, is in the ACC "footprint," and is a strong academic school--giving the ACC more of an indentity in that direction. And I think that given the choice to join the SEC over the ACC or Big East, Louisville would want to make that move. The Big East still has teams like Marshall, ECU, Cinn., UCF, Penn State, Notre Dame, etc. to take and stay competitive. Finally, the SEC would lose a school that did not have a top 25 basketball and football program and replace it with one that does.

Why couldn't this work?

I would love that, but as much as Vandy can't compete in the SEC they aren't looking to leave that I've seen.

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
Why would Notre Dame or Penn State want to join the Big East?

Judging from the talk in most official publications, they are contacting C-USA and the Atlantic 10 only so far. We should all just consider this Penn State and Notre Dame talk the talk of dreamers wishing their now C-USA level conference back to the status of a power. I don't see it.

But Big East says that they are an elite conference still???

I would compare them more closely to the MWC (which obviously I am familiar with), which will get them little prestige when it comes to bowl games (Outback at best, Silicon Bowl as typical). Despite those pimping for Louisville and Cincinnati, those are third-tier football programs, much like what's leftover in the Big East. To say that they are anything more than that is just wishful thinking. Big East seems to be in the denial stage right now and I am hoping that SU will just bide their time and wait for the ACC invite as the 12th team.

[scooper]

I'll repeat what I said above, Louisville's a better football program than you give them credit for. They're no Miami, but they have talent, a stadium and a fan base on par with what's left of the Big East. Whatever move they make will probably coincide with the signing of phenom QB Brian Brohm. They have a decent TV market and a top 15 basketball program. If you really think Louisville's not attractive, watch the ACC fight for them for that 12th slot.

[Anrhydeddu]

they have talent, a stadium and a fan base on par with what's left of the Big East.

I fully agree and that's my point. You lose a top-tier team in Miami and second-tier in VT and you replace it with a runner-up teams just like WVU.

In looking at Louisvill in the past 20 seasons, I see

• 1983 3 8 0 .273 157 351
  1984 2 9 0 .182 237 360
  1985 2 9 0 .182 199 429
  1986 3 8 0 .273 179 303
  1987 3 7 1 .318 215 348
  1988 8 3 0 .727 261 245
  1989 6 5 0 .545 312 222
  1990 10 1 1 .875 345 149
  1991 2 9 0 .182 135 335
  1992 5 6 0 .455 214 243
  1993 9 3 0 .750 350 243
  1994 6 5 0 .545 255 253
  1995 7 4 0 .636 283 165
  1996 5 6 0 .455 179 221
  1997 1 10 0 .091 245 407
  1998 7 5 0 .583 473 435
  1999 7 5 0 .583 443 365
  2000 9 3 0 .750 405 268
  2001 11 2 0 .846 394 223
  2002 7 6 0 .538 374 319

5 good seasons out 20 (compare that to SU). Maybe they will have much better success in the future, but everyone says that. I don't mean to pick on Louisville specifically but it proves my point of the Big East just looking to maintain the same level of competition as with what's leftover - not improving or raising their status back up (which have fallen hard). To me, either SU has to leave or they get Penn State and/or ND in for football.

[Butter]

My personal hope is that SU ends up in the Big Ten. Notre Dame and Pitt can go suck a tailpipe.

[Anrhydeddu]

Originally posted by Butter_of_69
My personal hope is that SU ends up in the Big Ten. Notre Dame and Pitt can go suck a tailpipe.

That truly would be the most ideal scenario (with being ACC #12 as the runner-up). Where they are right now really, really sucks (and they know that).

[scooper]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu

5 good seasons out 20 (compare that to SU). Maybe they will have much better success in the future, but everyone says that. I don't mean to pick on Louisville specifically but it proves my point of the Big East just looking to maintain the same level of competition as with what's leftover - not improving or raising their status back up (which have fallen hard). To me, either SU has to leave or they get Penn State and/or ND in for football.

But they are in a string of good seasons, with the talent pipeline running better than it ever has. They have relatively new facilities and the athletics program is hitting on all cylinders right now. When you look to fill an open slot in a conference, often you have to pick teams from a lower conference, but you look for a program that has the potential to step up. I think of the possibilities for the Big East, Louisville is the program most suited to raise their level of talent and competition. (For the record, I'm not a Louiville shill. I'm looking at this as an outsider)

As for Penn St. and ND, the Big East has no chance at either of those programs for football.

[Marmel]

Originally posted by Anrhydeddu
Big East seems to be in the denial stage right now and I am hoping that SU will just bide their time and wait for the ACC invite as the 12th team.

You have a bleak outlook.

First of all, not if the ACC got on their hands and knees and kissed SU's ass would they ever, ever, ever even consider the ACC. End of story, and I am glad.

2nd, within the teams that are left you have SU, Pitt and BC that forms a very solid core. All at least equal to the Jokies. Obviously there is no Miami in the mix, but there are not many Miami's out there. Pitt, SU, WVU, BC all had good football programs before Miami, and I am fairly confident they will have good football programs after Miami.

The administrations of some of these schools are quite diligent and will work hard to recover from the loss of Miami. There are some creative suggestions being thrown around and I am sure a variety of them will be in the final mix. The BE will keep the BCS bid until the BCS contract runs out....from there who knows what the football landscape will look like. Teams will rise and teams will fall in the next few years. Personally, I believe Pitt is at a stage where they can really breakout and become a powerhouse team.

Of course, I also think SU and Pitt would jump at a Big Ten invite, but I doubt that is in either school's future as I don't see them expanding, especially is the CCG is allowed with less than 12 teams. FTR, Notre Dame will never go to the Big 10, and it is more unlikely they will go to the ACC now that Miami is there. It is also doubtful they will go to this new BE, but if they do join a conference, that would be the one.

[Marmel]

dola...

For those of you who are interested, here is a transcript of a SU teleconference with Cancellor Shaw and the AD.

SU lucky to have these men in charge at this time

[Easy Mac]

With the exception of Syracuse, they had good football teams for a year (don't give me the Pitt was good in the 80's, that was 20 years ago). But none of those teams put together could be consistently BCS worth. I like Rich Rodriguez, he should be the coach at Clemson instead of Bowden2, but I woudn't say WVU has a good program, they had a good team for a year, hughe difference.

[Marmel]

I don't know Easy, Miami beign in the conference hurt some of these teams as much as it helped. Outside of Miami's probation years it was pretty damn tough, even with a great football team to get by Miami and win the Big East. If I recall correctly, only VTech and Syracuse really made any noise other than Miami, and that was mostly in Miami's probation/down years. Without Miami in the picture, there is now a chance for some of these teams to step it up with a real legit chance of winning the conference, going to the BCS and getting that exposure that brings in recruits, which in turn propels a program forward even more.

In the past, when you think Big East, you think Miami, now there is a window of opportunity for a couple of teams to step it up. Pitt, coming off a fine season, with some great recruiting and spectacular new facilities and a new dedication to its athletics is my pick for the team to do it. We will have to wait and see though.

[Anrhydeddu]

The BE will keep the BCS bid until the BCS contract runs out....

And that would make the BCS more of a joke than it is.

Pitt and BC that forms a very solid core

Pitt the past 20 years

• 1983 8 3 1 .708 288 165
  1984 3 7 1 .318 178 247
  1985 5 5 1 .500 202 187
  1986 6 4 1 .591 253 209
  1987 8 4 0 .667 230 146
  1988 6 5 0 .545 300 183
  1989 9 3 1 .731 367 281
  1990 3 7 1 .318 240 293
  1991 6 5 0 .545 244 241
  1992 3 9 0 .250 289 429
  1993 3 8 0 .273 168 371
  1994 3 8 0 .273 246 307
  1995 2 9 0 .182 217 329
  1996 4 7 0 .364 214 430
  1997 6 6 0 .500 333 354
  1998 2 9 0 .182 234 334
  1999 5 6 0 .455 281 278
  2000 7 5 0 .583 296 247
  2001 7 5 0 .583 296 245
  2002 9 4 0 .692 331 232

Since their glory years of 1976-1983, that's pretty bleak (even though they had a fairly good season last year).

And for BC...

• 1983 9 3 0 .750 351 190
  1984 10 2 0 .833 449 296
  1985 4 8 0 .333 222 307
  1986 9 3 0 .750 338 233
  1987 5 6 0 .455 244 281
  1988 3 8 0 .273 237 326
  1989 2 9 0 .182 207 253
  1990 4 7 0 .364 190 288
  1991 4 7 0 .364 247 246
  1992 8 3 1 .708 330 238
  1993 9 3 0 .750 408 240
  1994 7 4 1 .625 271 169
  1995 4 8 0 .333 207 322
  1996 5 7 0 .417 264 364
  1997 4 7 0 .364 237 314
  1998 4 7 0 .364 273 311
  1999 8 4 0 .667 297 308
  2000 7 5 0 .583 378 277
  2001 8 4 0 .667 337 227
  2002 9 4 0 .692 392 253

About the same as Louisville. Three fairly good seasons in the last 4 but nothing to shout about.

Pitt, BC and Louisville may make a solid core but it's a rather small ball.

[Anrhydeddu]

dola

www.michigan-football.com is a really good site for records. I had not come across that one before.

[SunDancer]

Could Big East try to get UMass and Villanova to jump up from 1-AA? I think they need to kickout Temple and Rutgers, while you lose them, you lose the deadweights.

[Marmel]

A-

Those last 20 year stats really do not mean a thing right now. The Big East is trying to create a viable future The last 5 years of those teams show that there is a potential future in there.