To cut or not to cut? That is the question

GrantDawg · 06-10-2003, 11:52 AM

My son, Lord willing, will be born by C-section on June 25th. Last night my wife was talking about things we will need once he gets home, and she mentioned we will need some Vaseline to put on his "thingy" (her medical vocabulary is extensive). I asked why, and she said they need that after they "cut" them. Up until this point, I never really considered whether or not he’d be circumcised. I am and generally the son is if the father is. But, talking about having to doctor his pee-pee (and my vocabulary is much better) after he is "cut" just got me to thinking, why?

So, here is your survey, though this will not be the final decision-maker it will play a role in the process. Should I have my son circumcised or not?

Craptacular · 06-10-2003, 11:56 AM

Thank you for posting this at lunch time.

GrantDawg · 06-10-2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craptacular
Thank you for posting this at lunch time.

Muuuuhhuuuwaaaaaahhaaa! Did it make you look at your pork skins differently?

Fritz · 06-10-2003, 11:59 AM

ah, nothing like thinking about a young boy's penis.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-10-2003, 12:13 PM

GD, all of the obvious jokes aside, this is actually one of the hot topics about early childhood best I can tell. And from personal experience I can tell you that it's probably as hard as decision as we dealt with as Will was arriving.

Assuming there's no religious role in the decision (wasn't for me but it is for some) the problem is all the conflicting info out there. Depending upon which camp your medical advisors fall into you'll either be told what a painful & ugly process it is _OR_ you'll be told about the health risks associated with not doing it. In our case, everyone who advised us before & at birth said don't do it, two pediatricians afterwards said we should have.

My wife & I both waffled back & forth on the decision right up until we brought him home from the hospital, trying to weigh the pros & cons of both decisions. We ultimately decided not to have the procedure done ... and we've regretted that decision ever since. The extra care involved with proper hygiene (there's not a lot to work with on newborns) combined with the higher instances of cancer later in life for uncircumcised men accounts for the regret.

Before making a final decision I strongly recommend seeking out the opposing view info to whichever choice your medical folks are recommending.

Jon

Marmel · 06-10-2003, 12:13 PM

In all seriousness, let him decide when he is old enough. He may want that foreskin in the future, or he may want to be cut (OK, nobody wants to be cut there!)

So, my advice would be no.

I never really understood the whole circumsizing thing. What is the point to it, other than religious beliefs (which to me seem ignorant in this case, YMMV).

Marmel · 06-10-2003, 12:15 PM

Just read John's post and was not aware of medical problems that could arise. Cancer, because of being uncut? Really? I find that hard to believe, but if you say so.....

Still, I wouldn't do it.

*goes off wondering what my wife thinks*
.
.
.
*realizes my wife does not agree with me on anything, so why should this be any different*

GrantDawg · 06-10-2003, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
GD, all of the obvious jokes aside, this is actually one of the hot topics about early childhood best I can tell. And from personal experience I can tell you that it's probably as hard as decision as we dealt with as Will was arriving.

Assuming there's no religious role in the decision (wasn't for me but it is for some) the problem is all the conflicting info out there. Depending upon which camp your medical advisors fall into you'll either be told what a painful & ugly process it is _OR_ you'll be told about the health risks associated with not doing it. In our case, everyone who advised us before & at birth said don't do it, two pediatricians afterwards said we should have.

My wife & I both waffled back & forth on the decision right up until we brought him home from the hospital, trying to weigh the pros & cons of both decisions. We ultimately decided not to have the procedure done ... and we've regretted that decision ever since. The extra care involved with proper hygiene (there's not a lot to work with on newborns) combined with the higher instances of cancer later in life for uncircumcised men accounts for the regret.

Before making a final decision I strongly recommend seeking out the opposing view info to whichever choice your medical folks are recommending.

Jon

Though I put this up tongue in cheek, this is really the kind of info I'm interested in. I know nothing about foreskin care (why would I?), and I'll have to check out the cancer thing because that is the first I've heard of it. Another worry I have is that both my wife and I had to have a procedure done when we were toddlers on a narrow urethra (no Hank Hill jokes, please). I wonder if that would be worse on him if he had that problem and is uncircumcised. Our doctor told us the pro's and con's wash, so it is totally up to us.

Fritz · 06-10-2003, 12:29 PM

You never see an uncircumcised man in American porn. AT LEAST NOT IN HETRO PORN*

*by hetro I mean no M/M. F/F is jim dandy.

Kodos · 06-10-2003, 12:34 PM

Snip, snip.
Wiz, wiz.
Oh, what a relief it is!

korme · 06-10-2003, 12:43 PM

just cut his whole willy off

Kodos · 06-10-2003, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shorty3281
just cut his whole willy off

Tired of being alone?

Ksyrup · 06-10-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Marmel
Just read John's post and was not aware of medical problems that could arise. Cancer, because of being uncut? Really? I find that hard to believe, but if you say so.....

That's only if you hold a cell phone up to your penis for extended periods of time.

sachmo71 · 06-10-2003, 01:25 PM

Yes, have it done.

scooper · 06-10-2003, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
That's only if you hold a cell phone up to your penis for extended periods of time.

that.....causes cancer?

Franklinnoble · 06-10-2003, 01:28 PM

I'm all for circumcision - but keep in mind that you CAN INSIST ON ANESTHESIA for the procedure. Most doctors will tell you "it's a quick procedure and he won't feel a thing." Call bullshit. Babies feel pain as much as adults do. Imagine trimming a few inches of skin off your willie right now. Ouch.

Anyhow, get him doped up good beforehand. And you don't have to do it right away - my stepson was 6 months old before he was taken back and had it done... although I'd probably do it sooner, just for the hygenic reasons stated above.

JeeberD · 06-10-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
I'm all for circumcision - but keep in mind that you CAN INSIST ON ANESTHESIA for the procedure. Most doctors will tell you "it's a quick procedure and he won't feel a thing." Call bullshit. Babies feel pain as much as adults do. Imagine trimming a few inches of skin off your willie right now. Ouch.

Anyhow, get him doped up good beforehand. And you don't have to do it right away - my stepson was 6 months old before he was taken back and had it done... although I'd probably do it sooner, just for the hygenic reasons stated above.

My mom has a story about me screaming like I was being murdered when they cut me. They took me away to do it, so she was down the hall, but apparently it sounded like I was right in there with her.

So I would say yeah, get him cut, but do like Franklin says and get the anesthesia...

Fidatelo · 06-10-2003, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ksyrup
That's only if you hold a cell phone up to your penis for extended periods of time.

That gives a whole new meaning to phone sex...

Honolulu_Blue · 06-10-2003, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrantDawg
My son, Lord willing, will be born by C-section on June 25th. Last night my wife was talking about things we will need once he gets home, and she mentioned we will need some Vaseline to put on his "thingy" (her medical vocabulary is extensive). I asked why, and she said they need that after they "cut" them. Up until this point, I never really considered whether or not he’d be circumcised. I am and generally the son is if the father is. But, talking about having to doctor his pee-pee (and my vocabulary is much better) after he is "cut" just got me to thinking, why?

So, here is your survey, though this will not be the final decision-maker it will play a role in the process. Should I have my son circumcised or not?

Yes, you should. Lord Willing... nice name for a kid, G-Dawg!

cthomer5000 · 06-10-2003, 02:17 PM

I think I'd be a litte hesitant in saying "dope my 5 minute old son up"

I'm not a childcare expert, but something tells me that immediate use of painkillers isn't the best thing for a baby.

Kevin · 06-10-2003, 02:18 PM

If the Doc says it is a tossup, then he should be the same as you. It's not like it's that hard to clean properly.

Draft Dodger · 06-10-2003, 02:26 PM

I don't remember Graham's reaction as being very severe. I think he was given some Tylenol first.

We did it within his first couple of days, before we left the hospital.

Eaglesfan27 · 06-10-2003, 02:37 PM

As a doctor I can tell you that there is data supporting both sides of the issue. There is some data regarding an increased risk of cancer in uncircumsized males but there is controverting data suggesting no such increase. It is clear that hygiene is a significant more challenging/important factor in young uncircumsized males. Also, it is clear that UTI's occur much more frequently in uncircumsized males (due to hygiene that is not sufficient.) There is a lot of data in the medical literature but there still isn't a clear answer and it really comes down to parental choice.

As far as the actual procedure, during medical school I had to actually perform the circumcision as a student at a public hospital. I must have done at least 20 of them, and without grossing anyone out too much, they use a device which somewhat constricts the penis and causes decreased pain, but many (I'd say 60%) screamed their little heads off (causing me to seriously regret doing this even if it was for their future health.) But, the other babies sat there pretty quietly and didn't seem to notice much pain. If you do choose to have the circumcision done on him and you choose to use anesthesia, make sure you have an excellent anesthesiologist as this could potentially cause complications if they aren't skilled in neonatal anesthesiology.

Good luck with your decision.

GrantDawg · 06-10-2003, 03:49 PM

Thanks, Eaglesfan. I'm still up in the air. I appreciate the responses. As for the vote, you guys are blood-thirsty.

Blade · 06-10-2003, 03:58 PM

All I know is I was in the Emergency room with my wife for a shoulder injury, and I could hear this child, probably around 8, crying his head off. The nurse walked out of the child's bed are (protected by sheets so no one could see in) and I heard her mutter "and that is why you get your kids circumsized."

I have no idea what was going on, but it scared the Hell out of me!

Franklinnoble · 06-10-2003, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blade
All I know is I was in the Emergency room with my wife for a shoulder injury, and I could hear this child, probably around 8, crying his head off. The nurse walked out of the child's bed are (protected by sheets so no one could see in) and I heard her mutter "and that is why you get your kids circumsized."

I have no idea what was going on, but it scared the Hell out of me!

This would be the a result of the "insufficient hygiene" that Eaglesfan27 talked about.

Basically, if you don't pull back the foreskin and clean behind it every so often, it gets stuck. Pulling it back after it's been neglected for a while is like peeling the skin of the tip of your willie. With your fingers. It's quite literally a bloody mess.

"... and that is why you get your kids circumcised."

Happy29 · 06-10-2003, 06:34 PM

I wouldnt ask for parenting tips around the FOFC board. No siree Clinton I wouldnt.

tucker342 · 06-10-2003, 09:41 PM

If religion doesn't factor into it, I would, I don't really no why, but I would.

tucker342 · 06-10-2003, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Happy29
I wouldnt ask for parenting tips around the FOFC board. No siree Clinton I wouldnt.

agreed

GrantDawg · 06-10-2003, 11:25 PM

After a little research, I'm definitely leaning toward the cut. Considering the doctors disagree even on every issue dealing with this, I'm just going to go with what is most common. I will be pushing for some sort of anesthesia, though probably just of the local variety (I read something about a cream they use).

There is also a ascetic consideration here. Once my wife saw a few pictures of uncircumcised penises (or is it peni? And they were in medical books so get your mind out of the gutter), she is definitely for circumcision.

KWhit · 06-10-2003, 11:53 PM

As Elaine from Seinfeld said about an uncircumcised man: "It had no personality."

Tekneek · 06-11-2003, 08:30 AM

I decided, and my wife completely agreed with me, that we are not going to remove anything from my son's body that does not have to be removed. When he is 18, he can get circumsized if he wants to, but the decision will be entirely his. That way he can decide that he wants the pain and discomfort, rather than me deciding that he is going to deal with the pain and discomfort. People think they can do anything to little babies because they won't remember and cannot talk about it. After reading first-hand reports about how it happens, and seeing the results that go on for weeks after it, there is no way I would ever approve of doing that to another human being. People have said, "Aren't you worried that it won't look like yours?" And I feel very good when I say, "If he wants it removed, he can make that decision on his own. I'm not removing anything that does not have to be removed to save his life."

As far as the bogus lines about keeping it clean, and healthy, and so on... They are all lies. 2 3/4 years later, there are no problems and requires no extra effort to keep him clean. I am sure parents of circumsized kids never hear this from their Doctors, but every single one (and nurse) we have come into contact with has taken the time to thank us for not circumcizing, and have related that they are hopeful that one day nobody will be doing that to their little boys. I've seen the penis of a 4 week old boy, still swollen, red, and when I changed the diaper you could tell it still hurt him when you wiped that area. That sealed the deal permanently for me.

My Mom and Dad did not realize you had a choice. Back then they pretty much bullied you into having it done, as my parents recall. They said they were never led to believe that you had the option to not do it. They completely agree with the position my wife and I have taken, and said had they known they had a choice at the time they would've done the same thing.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-11-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

They are all lies.

Umm, Tekneek, I'm not much on having a stranger claim I'm lying about a situation I live with everyday.

We can disagree about the degree of added difficulty, or about how big an issue it is but, as a parent of an uncirumcised child, I think I know whether or not there's a difference.

And as noted already, the medical community itself is divided on the issue. Perhaps every single one you encounter praises not doing it, however every medical pro who's treated my son basically chewed us out for not doing it.

Bottom line -- I'm happy enough to agree to disagree but your crack about it all being lies was pretty f'n offensive to me

Subby · 06-11-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tekneek
I've seen the penis of a 4 week old boy, still swollen, red, and when I changed the diaper you could tell it still hurt him when you wiped that area. That sealed the deal permanently for me.

Speaking of lies...

GrantDawg · 06-11-2003, 11:27 AM

I think Takneek just overstated the fact, because I've seen and read enough to know that YMMV on problems keeping it clean. Some never have a problem, but many do also. And as for the 4 week old, that is true too. That is one of the few who have problems with the circumcision healing. Like I said earlier, it a even split by the experts, most say that it is not nessecary, but that it does have advantages. Thanks for all the input.

cuervo72 · 06-11-2003, 11:32 AM

Hmm, I can't remember my son having much of a problem at all, after a week or two you didn't even need to apply any vasoline or anything, and it had healed up pretty well. He never seemed to be in any pain at all. Now if the area wasn't cleaned properly or by chance there was any sign of infection, then I can understand redness, pain, etc.

Tekneek · 06-11-2003, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Umm, Tekneek, I'm not much on having a stranger claim I'm lying about a situation I live with everyday.

Well, let me put it this way. It has not been an issue for me with my son, and no Doctor has told me anybody is doing anything wrong. So, for me and my family, it does seem like lies so far.

Tekneek · 06-11-2003, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Subby
Speaking of lies...

You calling me a liar? Back it up with some fact, buddy. I know what I experienced with my own eyes and ears. It is the son of my best friend, and it only happened in May. Unless you were there, back the fuck off with it, alright?

I don't think I made the claim that it happens to every single child. I made the claim that it is what I saw myself. That is what it was. An anecdote. If you don't like it, and have never seen it, that is fine, but to tell me I did not is rather cavalier of you.

CamEdwards · 06-11-2003, 03:28 PM

We didn't have Andrew snipped, and he's been fine. My wife was very stubborn on this point, and quite frankly, I didn't have a good enough reason to have the operation performed.

He's almost three and hasn't had any problems. I'd say if you're in doubt, don't make him shout. Leave the foreskin. After all, he can always get it done as an adult (as some guys do).

Tekneek · 06-11-2003, 03:35 PM

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) revised its policy statement on circumcision in March, 1999 to say that circumcision "demonstrates potential medical benefits [but the data] are not sufficient to recommend routine circumcision," essentially leaving the decision to the parents.

You might want to look at this website :

http://www.circumcision.org/info.htm

I know some of you will probably say it is propaganda, but if you're going to consider propaganda from one side, you should consider the other as well.

korme · 06-11-2003, 03:49 PM

i am actually kind of surprised at the number of people who have decided to get their kids uncircumcized.. I thought the majority (and i mean 90%+) of people got that done..

Tekneek · 06-11-2003, 04:06 PM

Ummm, I know what you mean, but you don't have to do anything special to get them uncircumsized. They come out that way naturally.

According to what I have found, even when circumcision was dominating and had all the Doctors telling everyone to do it, it never got above 80%.

korme · 06-11-2003, 04:10 PM

i know, i said it funny.. but you know what i mean.. i'm pretty sure it is very unusual for kids my age to be uncircumsized i think. just sayin..

Craptacular · 06-11-2003, 04:53 PM

I'm glad I didn't have gym class with Shorty.

JonInMiddleGA · 06-11-2003, 04:54 PM

[quoted]You calling me a liar? Back it up with some fact, buddy.[/quote]

Pssst .. 'Neek ... he did to you pretty much what you did to me (and probably quite a few others).

See how it rubs wrong?

Ryan S · 06-11-2003, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamEdwards
After all, he can always get it done as an adult (as some guys do).

Why on earth would any grown man put himself through that? You could not pay me enough.........

Quote:

Originally posted by Shorty3281
i am actually kind of surprised at the number of people who have decided to get their kids uncircumcized.. I thought the majority (and i mean 90%+) of people got that done..

Over here in the UK around 20% of the population are snipped, and that figure is falling all the time. Apparently only 3.8% of newborn boys get cut nowadays, so that figure will plummet in the next 20 years.

Tekneek · 06-11-2003, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
[quoted]You calling me a liar? Back it up with some fact, buddy.

Pssst .. 'Neek ... he did to you pretty much what you did to me (and probably quite a few others).

See how it rubs wrong? [/quote]

Except I didn't quote a statement from you, or anyone else, and call it a lie directly. It is a little different. I further explained what I was talking about in response to your statement. I'm sorry if it offended you, because that was not my intention. However, it is true that the vast majority of beliefs going around about uncircumsized penises are myths.

CamEdwards · 06-11-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ryan S
Why on earth would any grown man put himself through that? You could not pay me enough.........

That's my attitude, and I just put it on my son.

"Why on earth would any father put his son through that? You couldn't pay me enough."

The only real reason I could think to do it was so he could be like me, but that's a pretty crummy reason to put your kid through a needless surgical procedure that causes him pain.

superbama · 06-11-2003, 07:22 PM

Raymond is also uncircumsized. My wife and I were kinda up in the air.

KWhit · 06-12-2003, 08:53 AM

Here's an interesting paragraph I found doing a very quick search on the history of circumcision.

"It is now known that the male foreskin, or prepuce, is the principal location of erogenous sensation in the human male. Removal of the prepuce substantially reduces erogenous sensation. Therefore (in the appropriate cultural context), circumcision is revealed as a sacrifice of "sinful" human enjoyment (in this earthly life), for the sake of holiness in the afterlife."

The entire text may be found here: History of Snip-Snip

Another quote I just found, this one form a doctor in 1860.

"In cases of masturbation we must, I believe, break the habit by inducing such a condition of the parts as will cause too much local suffering to allow of the practice being continued. For this purpose, if the prepuce is long, we may circumcise the male patient with present and probably with future advantage; the operation, too, should not be performed under chloroform, so that the pain experienced may be associated with the habit we wish to eradicate."

The text of this one may be found here: Dr quotes

I don't know how true it is that this is the reason behind the procedure first being done, but if it DOES decrease adult sexual pleasure I would not do it to my child.

Many sites compare circumcision to the process of female genital mutilation (surgically removing the clitoris) that is done in some African countries to decrease female pleasure and curtail masturbation. I don't know if this is a valid comparison or not.

I've never had to make the decision myself (no children yet) but I will definitely lean toward keeping him uncircumcised.

View Poll Results: Should I have my son circumcised?
Cut 'em good!	54	75.00%
No, you barbarian!	18	25.00%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

06-10-2003, 11:59 AM	#4
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	ah, nothing like thinking about a young boy's penis. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

06-10-2003, 12:13 PM	#5
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	GD, all of the obvious jokes aside, this is actually one of the hot topics about early childhood best I can tell. And from personal experience I can tell you that it's probably as hard as decision as we dealt with as Will was arriving. Assuming there's no religious role in the decision (wasn't for me but it is for some) the problem is all the conflicting info out there. Depending upon which camp your medical advisors fall into you'll either be told what a painful & ugly process it is _OR_ you'll be told about the health risks associated with not doing it. In our case, everyone who advised us before & at birth said don't do it, two pediatricians afterwards said we should have. My wife & I both waffled back & forth on the decision right up until we brought him home from the hospital, trying to weigh the pros & cons of both decisions. We ultimately decided not to have the procedure done ... and we've regretted that decision ever since. The extra care involved with proper hygiene (there's not a lot to work with on newborns) combined with the higher instances of cancer later in life for uncircumcised men accounts for the regret. Before making a final decision I strongly recommend seeking out the opposing view info to whichever choice your medical folks are recommending. Jon __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

06-10-2003, 12:13 PM	#6
Marmel Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Manchester, CT	In all seriousness, let him decide when he is old enough. He may want that foreskin in the future, or he may want to be cut (OK, nobody wants to be cut there!) So, my advice would be no. I never really understood the whole circumsizing thing. What is the point to it, other than religious beliefs (which to me seem ignorant in this case, YMMV). __________________ 81-78 Cincinnati basketball writer P. Daugherty, "Connor Barwin playing several minutes against Syracuse is like kids with slingshots taking down Caesar's legions."

06-10-2003, 12:15 PM	#7
Marmel Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Manchester, CT	Just read John's post and was not aware of medical problems that could arise. Cancer, because of being uncut? Really? I find that hard to believe, but if you say so..... Still, I wouldn't do it. goes off wondering what my wife thinks . . . realizes my wife does not agree with me on anything, so why should this be any different __________________ 81-78 Cincinnati basketball writer P. Daugherty, "Connor Barwin playing several minutes against Syracuse is like kids with slingshots taking down Caesar's legions."

06-10-2003, 11:56 AM	#2
Craptacular College Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Mad City, WI	Thank you for posting this at lunch time.

06-10-2003, 12:29 PM	#9
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	You never see an uncircumcised man in American porn. AT LEAST NOT IN HETRO PORN* *by hetro I mean no M/M. F/F is jim dandy. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

06-10-2003, 12:34 PM	#10
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Snip, snip. Wiz, wiz. Oh, what a relief it is! __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

06-10-2003, 12:43 PM	#11
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	just cut his whole willy off

06-10-2003, 01:25 PM	#14
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Yes, have it done.

06-10-2003, 01:28 PM	#16
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	I'm all for circumcision - but keep in mind that you CAN INSIST ON ANESTHESIA for the procedure. Most doctors will tell you "it's a quick procedure and he won't feel a thing." Call bullshit. Babies feel pain as much as adults do. Imagine trimming a few inches of skin off your willie right now. Ouch. Anyhow, get him doped up good beforehand. And you don't have to do it right away - my stepson was 6 months old before he was taken back and had it done... although I'd probably do it sooner, just for the hygenic reasons stated above.

06-10-2003, 02:18 PM	#21
Kevin High School JV Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Nova Scotia	If the Doc says it is a tossup, then he should be the same as you. It's not like it's that hard to clean properly. __________________ It seems more like today than it did all day yesterday.

06-10-2003, 02:26 PM	#22
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	I don't remember Graham's reaction as being very severe. I think he was given some Tylenol first. We did it within his first couple of days, before we left the hospital. __________________ Mile High Hockey

06-10-2003, 02:37 PM	#23
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	As a doctor I can tell you that there is data supporting both sides of the issue. There is some data regarding an increased risk of cancer in uncircumsized males but there is controverting data suggesting no such increase. It is clear that hygiene is a significant more challenging/important factor in young uncircumsized males. Also, it is clear that UTI's occur much more frequently in uncircumsized males (due to hygiene that is not sufficient.) There is a lot of data in the medical literature but there still isn't a clear answer and it really comes down to parental choice. As far as the actual procedure, during medical school I had to actually perform the circumcision as a student at a public hospital. I must have done at least 20 of them, and without grossing anyone out too much, they use a device which somewhat constricts the penis and causes decreased pain, but many (I'd say 60%) screamed their little heads off (causing me to seriously regret doing this even if it was for their future health.) But, the other babies sat there pretty quietly and didn't seem to notice much pain. If you do choose to have the circumcision done on him and you choose to use anesthesia, make sure you have an excellent anesthesiologist as this could potentially cause complications if they aren't skilled in neonatal anesthesiology. Good luck with your decision. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

06-10-2003, 03:49 PM	#24
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	Thanks, Eaglesfan. I'm still up in the air. I appreciate the responses. As for the vote, you guys are blood-thirsty.

06-10-2003, 03:58 PM	#25
Blade College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Edmonton, Alberta	All I know is I was in the Emergency room with my wife for a shoulder injury, and I could hear this child, probably around 8, crying his head off. The nurse walked out of the child's bed are (protected by sheets so no one could see in) and I heard her mutter "and that is why you get your kids circumsized." I have no idea what was going on, but it scared the Hell out of me! __________________ Just trying to get by unnoticed... Loyal fan of the Edmonton Oilers and Philadelphia Eagles.

06-10-2003, 06:34 PM	#27
Happy29 In The Penalty Box Join Date: May 2003 Location: To reveal my location, you must decipher a series of traps, each more deadly than the last.	I wouldnt ask for parenting tips around the FOFC board. No siree Clinton I wouldnt.

06-10-2003, 09:41 PM	#28
tucker342 Pro Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Iowa City, IA	If religion doesn't factor into it, I would, I don't really no why, but I would.

06-10-2003, 11:25 PM	#30
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	After a little research, I'm definitely leaning toward the cut. Considering the doctors disagree even on every issue dealing with this, I'm just going to go with what is most common. I will be pushing for some sort of anesthesia, though probably just of the local variety (I read something about a cream they use). There is also a ascetic consideration here. Once my wife saw a few pictures of uncircumcised penises (or is it peni? And they were in medical books so get your mind out of the gutter), she is definitely for circumcision.

06-10-2003, 11:53 PM	#31
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	As Elaine from Seinfeld said about an uncircumcised man: "It had no personality."

06-11-2003, 08:30 AM	#32
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	I decided, and my wife completely agreed with me, that we are not going to remove anything from my son's body that does not have to be removed. When he is 18, he can get circumsized if he wants to, but the decision will be entirely his. That way he can decide that he wants the pain and discomfort, rather than me deciding that he is going to deal with the pain and discomfort. People think they can do anything to little babies because they won't remember and cannot talk about it. After reading first-hand reports about how it happens, and seeing the results that go on for weeks after it, there is no way I would ever approve of doing that to another human being. People have said, "Aren't you worried that it won't look like yours?" And I feel very good when I say, "If he wants it removed, he can make that decision on his own. I'm not removing anything that does not have to be removed to save his life." As far as the bogus lines about keeping it clean, and healthy, and so on... They are all lies. 2 3/4 years later, there are no problems and requires no extra effort to keep him clean. I am sure parents of circumsized kids never hear this from their Doctors, but every single one (and nurse) we have come into contact with has taken the time to thank us for not circumcizing, and have related that they are hopeful that one day nobody will be doing that to their little boys. I've seen the penis of a 4 week old boy, still swollen, red, and when I changed the diaper you could tell it still hurt him when you wiped that area. That sealed the deal permanently for me. My Mom and Dad did not realize you had a choice. Back then they pretty much bullied you into having it done, as my parents recall. They said they were never led to believe that you had the option to not do it. They completely agree with the position my wife and I have taken, and said had they known they had a choice at the time they would've done the same thing. Last edited by Tekneek : 06-11-2003 at 08:33 AM.

06-11-2003, 11:27 AM	#35
GrantDawg World Champion Mis-speller Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Covington, Ga.	I think Takneek just overstated the fact, because I've seen and read enough to know that YMMV on problems keeping it clean. Some never have a problem, but many do also. And as for the 4 week old, that is true too. That is one of the few who have problems with the circumcision healing. Like I said earlier, it a even split by the experts, most say that it is not nessecary, but that it does have advantages. Thanks for all the input.

06-11-2003, 11:32 AM	#36
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Hmm, I can't remember my son having much of a problem at all, after a week or two you didn't even need to apply any vasoline or anything, and it had healed up pretty well. He never seemed to be in any pain at all. Now if the area wasn't cleaned properly or by chance there was any sign of infection, then I can understand redness, pain, etc. __________________ null

06-11-2003, 03:28 PM	#39
CamEdwards Stadium Announcer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burke, VA	We didn't have Andrew snipped, and he's been fine. My wife was very stubborn on this point, and quite frankly, I didn't have a good enough reason to have the operation performed. He's almost three and hasn't had any problems. I'd say if you're in doubt, don't make him shout. Leave the foreskin. After all, he can always get it done as an adult (as some guys do). __________________ I don't want the world. I just want your half.

06-11-2003, 03:35 PM	#40
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) revised its policy statement on circumcision in March, 1999 to say that circumcision "demonstrates potential medical benefits [but the data] are not sufficient to recommend routine circumcision," essentially leaving the decision to the parents. You might want to look at this website : http://www.circumcision.org/info.htm I know some of you will probably say it is propaganda, but if you're going to consider propaganda from one side, you should consider the other as well.

06-11-2003, 03:49 PM	#41
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	i am actually kind of surprised at the number of people who have decided to get their kids uncircumcized.. I thought the majority (and i mean 90%+) of people got that done..

06-11-2003, 04:06 PM	#42
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	Ummm, I know what you mean, but you don't have to do anything special to get them uncircumsized. They come out that way naturally. According to what I have found, even when circumcision was dominating and had all the Doctors telling everyone to do it, it never got above 80%.

06-11-2003, 04:10 PM	#43
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	i know, i said it funny.. but you know what i mean.. i'm pretty sure it is very unusual for kids my age to be uncircumsized i think. just sayin..

06-11-2003, 04:53 PM	#44
Craptacular College Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Mad City, WI	I'm glad I didn't have gym class with Shorty.

06-11-2003, 04:54 PM	#45
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	[quoted]You calling me a liar? Back it up with some fact, buddy.[/quote] Pssst .. 'Neek ... he did to you pretty much what you did to me (and probably quite a few others). See how it rubs wrong? __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

06-11-2003, 07:22 PM	#49
superbama H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle ,Wa	Raymond is also uncircumsized. My wife and I were kinda up in the air.

06-12-2003, 08:53 AM	#50
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Here's an interesting paragraph I found doing a very quick search on the history of circumcision. "It is now known that the male foreskin, or prepuce, is the principal location of erogenous sensation in the human male. Removal of the prepuce substantially reduces erogenous sensation. Therefore (in the appropriate cultural context), circumcision is revealed as a sacrifice of "sinful" human enjoyment (in this earthly life), for the sake of holiness in the afterlife." The entire text may be found here: History of Snip-Snip Another quote I just found, this one form a doctor in 1860. "In cases of masturbation we must, I believe, break the habit by inducing such a condition of the parts as will cause too much local suffering to allow of the practice being continued. For this purpose, if the prepuce is long, we may circumcise the male patient with present and probably with future advantage; the operation, too, should not be performed under chloroform, so that the pain experienced may be associated with the habit we wish to eradicate." The text of this one may be found here: Dr quotes I don't know how true it is that this is the reason behind the procedure first being done, but if it DOES decrease adult sexual pleasure I would not do it to my child. Many sites compare circumcision to the process of female genital mutilation (surgically removing the clitoris) that is done in some African countries to decrease female pleasure and curtail masturbation. I don't know if this is a valid comparison or not. I've never had to make the decision myself (no children yet) but I will definitely lean toward keeping him uncircumcised. Last edited by KWhit : 06-12-2003 at 08:54 AM.

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