College basketball coaching changes

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Hamilton and the FSU basketball program is a disaster waiting to happen. Michael Snaer is a prime example. He was shopping for the biggest $$$ in his recruitment and Hamilton won that battle.

Co-Signed. But obviously Mizzou's booster check bounced

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm sure I don't have to point out the similarities between Pastner and Quin Snyder when they were first hired. Thirty-something assistant under a proven coach. Known for great recruiting and one of the hotter young coaching prospects on the market. Hopefully, Pastner will learn to recruit on his own without taking shortcuts. Quin Snyder tried to take recruiting shortcuts like his mentor and got nailed for it. Snyder's main excuse behind closed doors was that he didn't do anything different than what he did at Duke. There's a big difference between Coach K and Coach Cal doing certain things and a young coach trying to do the same thing when other older coaches are jealous of your big contract and easy success at such an early age.

Oh my.

It's just as easy to point out the Mark Few's and the Jaime Dixon's as it is to point out the Steve Lavin's and the Quinn Snyder's

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Co-Signed. But obviously Mizzou's booster check bounced

Just the opposite. Coach Anderson refused to pay a dime as he does with all recruits. Two days later, Snaer committed to Florida State. It's not hard to connect the dots.

FWIW........That's the give and take with Anderson. He's going to run a clean program, even at the cost of losing prime recruits that other coaches would have landed. You'll see a lot of top 50-150 recruits that he targets, but he'll often look good with a top 25 recruit only to see him lose out at the last minute.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Oh my.

It's just as easy to point out the Mark Few's and the Jaime Dixon's as it is to point out the Steve Lavin's and the Quinn Snyder's

I disagree totally with the Mark Few and Jamie Dixon comparison. Both of those guys learned how to recruit the right way under Monson and Howland. There was no funny business going on under either of those guys.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Didn't see it mentioned here, but DeMarcus Cousins has verbally committed to Kentucky.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like we got our answer on Jarrid Famous. He's going to put off his decision date and visit Arizona on April 17th. Villanova also plans to visit Famous. From the Tampa newspaper..........

April 08, 2009
Recruiting: Could Miller lure Famous to Arizona?

The start of the spring signing period is now just one week away, and Tuesday brought an interesting development in the recruitment of Jarrid Famous, a 6-foot-11 center from Westchester (N.Y.) Community College.

When we last gave an update on Famous, he had enjoyed an official visit to USF and was considering an official visit to Xavier. That changed this week when Xavier coach Sean Miller accepted the head coaching job at Arizona, effectively taking the Muskateers out of contention.

It did, however, make Arizona a new option for Famous, according to Westchester assistant Tyrone Mushatt. He said Tuesday that Miller had expressed an interest in bringing Famous to Arizona, and Mushatt said the center plans to take an official visit to Arizona the weekend of April 17. He's already visited Seton Hall and Missouri, with the latter in better position to sign him, though Villanova is expected to have coaches in to see Famous on Thursday, the first day after a weeklong quiet period with no in-person contact between coaches and recruits.

What does it mean to USF? Mushatt stressed that the Bulls still have "a great shot" at Famous, again with nearby relatives playing a big advantage for USF. The Bulls will have power forward Daequon Montreal and small forward Glenn Bryant in this weekend for official visits, then will have center Sandi Marcius in the next weekend -- whether the Bulls get Famous and/or Marcius remains to be seen.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I disagree totally with the Mark Few and Jamie Dixon comparison. Both of those guys learned how to recruit the right way under Monson and Howland. There was no funny business going on under either of those guys that was caught.

Fixed that for ya.

Just like steroids in baseball, I think it is fairly unwise to say that any program under any coach is void of any funny business.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Fixed that for ya.

Just like steroids in baseball, I think it is fairly unwise to say that any program under any coach is void of any funny business.

Howland and Monson both have very clean recruiting records. There's a big difference between those guys and coaches like Coach K and Coach Cal, which is the comparison that was made. I'm assuming you're just not aware of much that goes on behind the scenes.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I disagree totally with the Mark Few and Jamie Dixon comparison. Both of those guys learned how to recruit the right way under Monson and Howland. There was no funny business going on under either of those guys.

So you're saying that Josh learned the wrong way under Lute?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just the opposite. Coach Anderson refused to pay a dime as he does with all recruits. Two days later, Snaer committed to Florida State. It's not hard to connect the dots.

FWIW........That's the give and take with Anderson. He's going to run a clean program, even at the cost of losing prime recruits that other coaches would have landed. You'll see a lot of top 50-150 recruits that he targets, but he'll often look good with a top 25 recruit only to see him lose out at the last minute.

Heh

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Howland and Monson both have very clean recruiting records. There's a big difference between those guys and coaches like Coach K and Coach Cal, which is the comparison that was made. I'm assuming you're just not aware of much that goes on behind the scenes.

Are you prepared to bet your house that Howland or Monson have not ever committed a recruiting violation? Read my post again. I did not accuse either coach of any sort of violation nor did I say that K or Cal had clean records. What I said based on the archaic rules of the NCAA, it is unwise to say that any program under any coach is completely clean. It has been said before and it will be said again because it is true. If the NCAA decided to land on campus and go over any program with a fine tooth comb, there is a very good chance they will find a violation under current NCAA rules

Finally, despite the cleanliness of the records and the behind the scenes "dirt" of K and Cal, they all have one thing in common. None have been specifically CAUGHT doing any funny business by the NCAA.

[JonInMiddleGA]

UGA adds former Alabama interim coach Phillip Pearson as an assistant to Mark Fox.
Fox adds veteran assistants | [email protected]

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Here's a rundown of the Memphis hire saga. I think the guy's a bit too high on some of his sources and their reliability, but there's certain a lot of info in here.

The Memphis Edge » Tiger Basketball

IMO, had Pastner been hired right after Calipari left, it would have been seen as a good hire. Instead, they went through a week-long soap opera only to hire Pastner, which made it look more like they were settling on his when all other possibilities were exhausted. He's still a good hire for long-term stability, but they just did it the wrong way.

I'm sure I don't have to point out the similarities between Pastner and Quin Snyder when they were first hired. Thirty-something assistant under a proven coach. Known for great recruiting and one of the hotter young coaching prospects on the market. Hopefully, Pastner will learn to recruit on his own without taking shortcuts. Quin Snyder tried to take recruiting shortcuts like his mentor and got nailed for it. Snyder's main excuse behind closed doors was that he didn't do anything different than what he did at Duke. There's a big difference between Coach K and Coach Cal doing certain things and a young coach trying to do the same thing when other older coaches are jealous of your big contract and easy success at such an early age.

Here's what some people close to Pastner have said: Memphis wanted to hire Josh, but Josh wanted to make sure 100% that he wasn't going to get the Arizona job. So, once Miller accepted, Pastner agreed. So, I *think* Pastner was a top candidate at Memphis from the start.

As to his recruiting ethics, the guy was coaching AAU teams in Texas during the summer back when he was a grad student at Arizona. He knows a ton of high school coaches and was instrumental in landing a ton of kids for Arizona as an assistant (and later Memphis). In fact, the success he had as an assistant at Arizona was the reason Cal brought him on. So, I don't think you can say Cal influenced his recruiting or even Lute did. He was setting up scouting reports as a teenager and a born salesman.

[Arles]

dola, here's a sports illustrated article on him from 2005 when he was a 25-year old assistant. If you think Calipari "showed him the ropes" on recruiting, you're crazy:

At age 25, hoops-obsessed Arizona assistant Josh Pastner - 02.03.03 - SI Vault

Whiz-kid Coach
At age 25, hoops-obsessed Arizona assistant Josh Pastner is on the fast track to a top job
John O'keefe



LAST NOVEMBER, Arizona assistant basketball coach Josh Pastner was on a date when he felt his cellphone vibrate. Recognizing the number of a prized recruit, 6'10" forward Ndudi Ebi from Houston, Pastner excused himself from one promising prospect and spent the rest of the movie talking to another. Two weeks later Ebi signed with the Wildcats, but Pastner's budding romance fizzled. "On his dates his phone will ring or he'll be watching TV during dinner," says Arizona associate head coach Jim Rosborough. "No girl will go out with him very long."

Pastner, 25, has been making sacrifices to his hoops obsession nearly his whole life. When he was 10, his father, Hal, founded the Houston Hoops AAU team, and Josh often traveled with the team around the country. At 13 he launched The josh Pastner Scouting Report, a 100-page annual based on his observations of national AAU talent. Three years later Hal handed his son the coaching duties.

In the summer of '95 Josh, then a high school senior, sent a letter to Rosborough inviting the Arizona staff to a workout in Houston to check out his team's college prospects. Rosborough was impressed with the workout—and with the precocious Pastner. "I just called him every Sunday for a year," says Pastner. A slow 5'9" point guard at Kingwood High, Pastner was hardly Division I material, but he marketed himself as a "coach in training." Rosborough and coach Lute Olson offered Josh an athletic scholarship.

At his first team meeting, Pastner stood up and preached the value of hard work to All-Pac-10 guard Miles Simon and future NBAers Mike Bibby, Michael Dickerson and Jason Terry. The players laughed. Soon, though, Simon started doing the drills Pastner had recommended to help his stroke. Bibby joined the workouts, and then Terry and forward Bennett Davidson. Says Bibby, now a point guard with the Sacramento Kings, "A lot of those drills I still use today."

By season's end Bibby and Pastner had become roommates. Arizona finished fifth in the Pac-10 but caught fire in the NCAA tournament and stormed to the national title.

Pastner averaged just 0.9 points a game in four seasons but contributed in other ways. By his senior year he was scouting opponents, breaking down film and running the scout team at practice. After serving as a graduate assistant, administrative assistant and recruiting coordinator, last summer he was hired as a full-timer.

Pastner makes no bones about his goal of being a head coach. In the summer of '98, following his sophomore year at Arizona, he applied for the vacant Los Angeles Clippers head coaching position. Since then he has sent his résumé whenever an NBA head job has opened. The last two summers he has pursued Division positions at Prairie View A&M and Texas Southern. Both times he visited the campuses uninvited, introducing himself to the president and the athletic director. He was seriously considered by each school. Prairie View athletic director Charles McClelland ultimately chose Jerome Francis Jr., 10 years Pastner's senior, but says, "Josh is going to be a heck of a coach someday."

Meanwhile Pastner will continue his tireless efforts for the Wildcats. He sleeps four hours a night and is at his office daily by 7 a.m. He lives in a one-bedroom apartment 10 minutes from campus, stocks only milk and cereal in the kitchen and uses plastic forks and paper plates. "I'm a different dude," says Pastner.

"He's way beyond his years in terms of his understanding of the game," says Olson. "I think he really wins over guys with his dedication to making them better."

Still, Rosborough tries to find Pastner some nonbasketball interests—namely female companionship. "I feel very lucky to know exactly what I want to do," says Pastner. "Whoever I date is going to have to understand that this is who I am."

[the_meanstrosity]

Snaer didn't even have Missouri in his final two so I'm not sure why you're so hellbent on attacking Hamilton. In the last few weeks, I've seen you make numerous attacks on other programs such as Texas, Memphis, and now Florida State. Are you truly this bitter? I know it's been a rough patch for the Tigers basketball team these last few years, but I would think you'd be happy with the success Mike Anderson had this year. Instead you spend a lot of time trying to downplay the success of other programs. Be happy for your program. Sheesh man.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FWIW........That's the give and take with Anderson. He's going to run a clean program, even at the cost of losing prime recruits that other coaches would have landed. You'll see a lot of top 50-150 recruits that he targets, but he'll often look good with a top 25 recruit only to see him lose out at the last minute.

[the_meanstrosity]

Wasn't Quin's biggest recruiting violation that he had illegal contact with players via cell phone? Isn't that the same thing Kelvin Sampson got hit with? I don't buy the young coach argument given that Sampson clearly isn't a young coach and he was reprimanded twice for the same activity.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm sure I don't have to point out the similarities between Pastner and Quin Snyder when they were first hired. Thirty-something assistant under a proven coach. Known for great recruiting and one of the hotter young coaching prospects on the market. Hopefully, Pastner will learn to recruit on his own without taking shortcuts. Quin Snyder tried to take recruiting shortcuts like his mentor and got nailed for it. Snyder's main excuse behind closed doors was that he didn't do anything different than what he did at Duke. There's a big difference between Coach K and Coach Cal doing certain things and a young coach trying to do the same thing when other older coaches are jealous of your big contract and easy success at such an early age.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Are you prepared to bet your house that Howland or Monson have not ever committed a recruiting violation? Read my post again. I did not accuse either coach of any sort of violation nor did I say that K or Cal had clean records. What I said based on the archaic rules of the NCAA, it is unwise to say that any program under any coach is completely clean. It has been said before and it will be said again because it is true. If the NCAA decided to land on campus and go over any program with a fine tooth comb, there is a very good chance they will find a violation under current NCAA rules

Finally, despite the cleanliness of the records and the behind the scenes "dirt" of K and Cal, they all have one thing in common. None have been specifically CAUGHT doing any funny business by the NCAA.

Some pretty naive comments here. Much like the tax code, I'm sure there's not a single coach that hasn't violated some rule accidentally. With that said, you obviously don't have a full awareness of how recruiting and reporting it works in the NCAA.

Quin Snyder is the perfect example. Quin thought he was a pretty smart guy and tried to rally support with a few other B12 coaches to report some violations by Roy Williams at Kansas. Roy caught wind of it and dumped Quin and his recruiting practices on its head, resulting in the fallout at Mizzou, culminating in Quin's "resignation".

It's like a mafia family. You're fine as long as you don't cross the Godfather(s). If you do, you'll pay for it. The Godfather may take a hit, but you could lose your life. That's reality in college athletics.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Snaer didn't even have Missouri in his final two so I'm not sure why you're so hellbent on attacking Hamilton.

Snaer shopped around for the highest dollar whether you know it or not. His 'handler' approached the Mizzou staff two days before he signed with Florida State to see if their stance/"offer" had changed. Melvin Watkins told him no and that's where it ended.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Count yourself as blessed that you don't know the inner workings of recruiting and just how nasty it can be. It would ruin college basketball for most people.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Count yourself as blessed that you don't know the inner workings of recruiting and just how nasty it can be. It would ruin college basketball for most people.

But Anderson would NEVER do anything along those lines.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

But Anderson would NEVER do anything along those lines.

Mike Anderson would not. I can also tell you with great certainty that Norm Stewart and Quin Snyder would win at any cost and 'played the game'. I'm not sure Coach Anderson could if he even wanted to at Missouri. The scrutiny following the Snyder debacle is very intense. They've doubled the compliance officer count. The donor dollars are tracked at a level not previously seen.

The only thing that Mike Anderson has done that even resembles 'playing the game' is that he set up via an organizer a AAU tourney last year at Mizzou Arena. It was a failure. The organizers lost several thousand dollars and a couple of teams pulled out when the coaches found out that they wouldn't be receiving 'appearance fees'. Those guys expected money for showing up.

[the_meanstrosity]

Why would he go to Missouri for an "offer" if they weren't even one of his top two schools? That's where you're losing me. That'd be akin to me being hungry for a cheeseburger, but going to Subway to check their prices on a sandwich.

And if this story were true then why didn't Missouri report it? A number of other colleges have reported supposed violations and the NCAA investigated the situation. Doesn't mean they'd be caught, but it certainly bears investigating if this story is true.

Could this stuff happen? Certainly. Would you know about it? I doubt it. I was friends with a number of college basketball players so I know what does and doesn't happen. Mike Anderson is a good guy, but he's a college basketball coach and knows the business he got into. He's no better or worse than most college coaches.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Snaer shopped around for the highest dollar whether you know it or not. His 'handler' approached the Mizzou staff two days before he signed with Florida State to see if their stance/"offer" had changed. Melvin Watkins told him no and that's where it ended.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Count yourself as blessed that you don't know the inner workings of recruiting and just how nasty it can be. It would ruin college basketball for most people.

[the_meanstrosity]

Mike Anderson could get away with plenty if he wanted to...compliance officers or not. How do you think MU would track "donor dollars" that are under the table? Do you they have hidden chips on the dollar bills given to athletes? When a booster sets up a family with a property or car do you really think they call the compliance office to make sure it's ok?

I guarantee you Mike Anderson "plays the game" or else he would never have gotten into coaching college basketball. Do you think he just sat there learning from Nolan Richardson at Arkansas and didn't pick any of this stuff up?

You're Mike Anderson is holier than thou shtick is you being naive. Anderson is one of the good guys, but that doesn't mean he isn't above playing the game. Just look at how he played Georgia and Missouri for more money last month. Don't be naive. Every coach in college athletics knows what they are getting into.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Mike Anderson would not. I can also tell you with great certainty that Norm Stewart and Quin Snyder would win at any cost and 'played the game'. I'm not sure Coach Anderson could if he even wanted to at Missouri. The scrutiny following the Snyder debacle is very intense. They've doubled the compliance officer count. The donor dollars are tracked at a level not previously seen.

The only thing that Mike Anderson has done that even resembles 'playing the game' is that he set up via an organizer a AAU tourney last year at Mizzou Arena. It was a failure. The organizers lost several thousand dollars and a couple of teams pulled out when the coaches found out that they wouldn't be receiving 'appearance fees'. Those guys expected money for showing up.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Why would he go to Missouri for an "offer" if they weren't even one of his top two schools? That's where you're losing me. That'd be akin to me being hungry for a cheeseburger, but going to Subway to check their prices on a sandwich.

And if this story were true then why didn't Missouri report it? A number of other colleges have reported supposed violations and the NCAA investigated the situation. Doesn't mean they'd be caught, but it certainly bears investigating if this story is true.

Could this stuff happen? Certainly. Would you know about it? I doubt it. I was friends with a number of college basketball players so I know what does and doesn't happen. Mike Anderson is a good guy, but he's a college basketball coach and knows the business he got into. He's no better or worse than most college coaches.

I'm not going to get into a battle about who knows what. I stand behind my statement that is exactly how it all went down and that happens many times over in college athletics. Some coaches will play at any cost, while others take the higher road. I couldn't disagree more that some coaches are not better or worse than their peers. That has no basis in reality.

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

You're Mike Anderson is holier than thou shtick is you being naive. Anderson is one of the good guys, but that doesn't mean he isn't above playing the game. Just look at how he played Georgia and Missouri for more money last month. Don't be naive. Every coach in college athletics knows what they are getting into.

That's business and has nothing to do with recruiting which is the conversation at hand.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Mike Anderson would not.

Unless you are, in fact, Mike Anderson, you're naive.

[the_meanstrosity]

You don't want to get into a battle, but aren't afraid to throw kids like Snaer and coaches like Hamilton under the bus without any factual evidence. Nice! Representing Missouri well.

If Anderson knew about Hamilton and Snaer and did not report it then he's not the man you're suggesting he is. Why wouldn't they take this to the NCAA unless Anderson and company had something to hide. None of your stories make sense.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm not going to get into a battle about who knows what. I stand behind my statement that is exactly how it all went down and that happens many times over in college athletics. Some coaches will play at any cost, while others take the higher road. I couldn't disagree more that some coaches are not better or worse than their peers. That has no basis in reality.

Yes it is business, but so is college basketball recruiting. If Anderson has shown himself willing to do what it takes to get a big raise why wouldn't he be willing to do the same to land recruits? Thus far you haven't shown me how Mike Anderson takes care of his business any differently than any other coach in America.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's business and has nothing to do with recruiting which is the conversation at hand.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

You don't want to get into a battle, but aren't afraid to throw kids like Snaer and coaches like Hamilton under the bus without any factual evidence. Nice! Representing Missouri well.

If Anderson knew about Hamilton and Snaer and did not report it then he's not the man you're suggesting he is. Why wouldn't they take this to the NCAA unless Anderson and company had something to hide. None of your stories make sense.

Your building on the assumption that Hamilton has not been reported to the NCAA. I disagree with that assertion.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Unless you are, in fact, Mike Anderson, you're naive.

So what do you consider 'breaking the rules'? There are absolute rules and then there are loopholes that all coaches exploit which are not violations. If you're referring to those things, then your absolutely right that Coach Anderson maximizes his opportunities in that regard. If you're talking about paying players or representatives, then my point remains that he has never done that at Mizzou.

It is a good point you bring up though. There is a grey area which is permissible but some people consider it iffy which sometimes gets confused with a recruiting violation which is often cut and dry.

[the_meanstrosity]

Nobody has released anything about researching Snaer's status at FSU and he's been committed for almost five months now. You can disagree with my assertion, but again you have no facts to back up any of your stories.

Anderson's players have had their share of off the court troubles during his tenure at Missouri. I'm not saying they were Anderson's fault, but at least one of those guys (Lyons) was suspended twice in a span of two seasons. For a coach who claimed he was going to take a hard stance against off court issues, he sure didn't back it up. Hence why I'm not likely to believe your "holier than thou" arguments regarding Anderson.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Your building on the assumption that Hamilton has not been reported to the NCAA. I disagree with that assertion.

[the_meanstrosity]

And how do you know he hasn't done that at Missouri? He landed a pretty good player in Michael Dixon who was woo'ed by some good recruiters at other schools (Capels at OU, Pitino at Louisville, Williams at Marquette). You've got Dewitt who was recruited by your buddy Hamilton at Florida State. Did Anderson offer more money than Hamilton? How exactly is Anderson beating these other schools for recruits if they are handing out money as you're suggesting...and Anderson isn't? I'm sorry, but none of your story makes sense. If this were true then Anderson would never land a quality player like Dixon.

Listen, we get that you like Missouri basketball and are obviously a bit or a lot biased. That's fine and normal for most college fans. But don't try to throw other schools under the bus simply to make your own look better. It's juvenile.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So what do you consider 'breaking the rules'? There are absolute rules and then there are loopholes that all coaches exploit which are not violations. If you're referring to those things, then your absolutely right that Coach Anderson maximizes his opportunities in that regard. If you're talking about paying players or representatives, then my point remains that he has never done that at Mizzou.

It is a good point you bring up though. There is a grey area which is permissible but some people consider it iffy which sometimes gets confused with a recruiting violation which is often cut and dry.

[DataKing]

[the_meanstrosity]

Don't you just sit there DK. I wanna see you get in on this action too.

Originally Posted by DataKing

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So what do you consider 'breaking the rules'? There are absolute rules and then there are loopholes that all coaches exploit which are not violations. If you're referring to those things, then your absolutely right that Coach Anderson maximizes his opportunities in that regard. If you're talking about paying players or representatives, then my point remains that he has never done that at Mizzou.

I don't care how many boosters you know or how good your info is, you have no idea about what has occurred with each individual recruit in his tenure. That goes for every fan who knows boosters at every school. I can't believe that every guy out there who buys a player for his school brags about it to his friends, who continue to spread the word. To say unequivocally that he or the school has never, or will never, break an "absolute rule" is naive.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Listen, we get that you like Missouri basketball and are obviously a bit or a lot biased. That's fine and normal for most college fans. But don't try to throw other schools under the bus simply to make your own look better. It's juvenile.

Unfortunately, this is his standard M.O. with just about every subject he gets involved with on this board.

[the_meanstrosity]

Yeah, I've noticed that in this thread. Memphis, Texas, Florida State, and now every school but Missouri is dirty, lol.

Originally Posted by cartman

Unfortunately, this is his standard M.O. with just about every subject he gets involved with on this board.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

For a coach who claimed he was going to take a hard stance against off court issues, he sure didn't back it up. Hence why I'm not likely to believe your "holier than thou" arguments regarding Anderson.

A coach isn't judged on a hard stance against off the court issues by whether bad things occur or not. He's judged by how those situations are handled. Coach Anderson booted two players last year. He suspended a few others. This year's class has had no off-the-court issues and he's recruiting to avoid those issues moving forward. I'd say he backed it up extremely well.

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

And how do you know he hasn't done that at Missouri? He landed a pretty good player in Michael Dixon who was woo'ed by some good recruiters at other schools (Capels at OU, Pitino at Louisville, Williams at Marquette). You've got Dewitt who was recruited by your buddy Hamilton at Florida State. Did Anderson offer more money than Hamilton? If this were true then Anderson would never land a quality player like Dixon.

Michael Dixon is a lifelong Mizzou fan along with his family. The only thing that would have kept him from going to Mizzou was a Snyder-Hansborough situation where the program went on probation and he didn't want to be a part of that.

DeWitt will probably not be attending Mizzou. The clearinghouse will likely reject him and he will be attending a Juco.

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Memphis, Texas, Florida State, and now every school but Missouri is dirty, lol.

Simply incorrect. I never stated any mention of Texas as a dirty recruiter. I also did not say that 'every school but Missouri is dirty'. Furthermore, I've said that the previous two Missouri coaches were very dirty. I've only cited three instances thus far in this thread and they were coaches, not programs. Coach K, Coach Cal, and Hamilton are all dirty recruiters. At least represent what I've stated fairly.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Howland and Monson both have very clean recruiting records.

Two weeks ago you could have said the same thing about Calhoun.

Everyone has a clean record until caught.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't care how many boosters you know or how good your info is, you have no idea about what has occurred with each individual recruit in his tenure. That goes for every fan who knows boosters at every school. I can't believe that every guy out there who buys a player for his school brags about it to his friends, who continue to spread the word. To say unequivocally that he or the school has never, or will never, break an "absolute rule" is naive.

This. As someone who has seen the ugly underbelly of college recruiting from a few angles, you can never assume someone is innocent because they haven't been caught or you've heard "good things".

I would treat any major division I college program and recruiting like a 90s power hitter and steroids. Regardless of what they say, you can never really know (for better or worse).

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Arles

This. As someone who has seen the ugly underbelly of college recruiting from a few angles, you can never assume someone is innocent because they haven't been caught or you've heard "good things".

I would treat any major division I college program and recruiting like a 90s power hitter and steroids. Regardless of what they say, you can never really know (for better or worse).

True. But some are more suspicious than others...

[the_meanstrosity]

Actually, Leo Lyons was suspended this season for an arrest on traffic charges and failing to pay fines from 2006. Now this isn't a big issue, but combine this with being suspended for the fight outside of a club last year then you can understand why I don't take Anderson's "hard line" stance so seriously. Two suspensions in two years with the second one being one home game against a struggling Colorado team at home. On the other hand he kicked a 10 mpg Butterfield off the team for two suspensions yet kept his leading scorer Leo Lyons on the team for his two suspensions. Again, I don't buy that Mike Anderson is any different from any other college coach.

And you can't count Hannah as being "kicked" off the team as he was likely never going to be healthy enough to play before his senior season ended and at least wouldn't be back before the end of February. I liked how Horton, who was uninjured in the fight, stayed on the team, but an injured Hannah was kicked off the team. Again, not buying that Anderson is some moral compass for head coaches. He's like every other head coach in college basketball.

I've given you two examples of Anderson's "hard line" stance being softened for certain players which is what most coaches in the country do. Anderson is a good guy, but he's no different than any other coach.

I can't speak on Dixon though I know he wanted to play close to home. Even if he were a Tiger fan, he was still looking at a number of other programs. If he were such a lock as you're suggesting then he would have committed long before he did.

I never suggested you claimed Texas was dirty. I simply said you had recently made negative comments about their program. You were also very negative on Memphis earlier in this thread. You have a history of taking shots at other universities.

Claiming "previous coaches" were dirty is easy to do after the fact. If I remember correctly, you were pretty high on Quin during his tenure at Missouri.

And as for your "sources", you're the same guy I remembering claiming Mike Alden was gone from Missouri a few years ago. You pretty much killed all your credibility with that one "story".

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

A coach isn't judged on a hard stance against off the court issues by whether bad things occur or not. He's judged by how those situations are handled. Coach Anderson booted two players last year. He suspended a few others. This year's class has had no off-the-court issues and he's recruiting to avoid those issues moving forward. I'd say he backed it up extremely well.



Michael Dixon is a lifelong Mizzou fan along with his family. The only thing that would have kept him from going to Mizzou was a Snyder-Hansborough situation where the program went on probation and he didn't want to be a part of that.

DeWitt will probably not be attending Mizzou. The clearinghouse will likely reject him and he will be attending a Juco.



Simply incorrect. I never stated any mention of Texas as a dirty recruiter. I also did not say that 'every school but Missouri is dirty'. Furthermore, I've said that the previous two Missouri coaches were very dirty. I've only cited three instances thus far in this thread and they were coaches, not programs. Coach K, Coach Cal, and Hamilton are all dirty recruiters. At least represent what I've stated fairly.

[the_meanstrosity]

Amen Arles. Every college coach who recruits knows that may have to do some things they'd normally never do. It's the business of college athletics and as we all know it can get ugly.

Originally Posted by Arles

This. As someone who has seen the ugly underbelly of college recruiting from a few angles, you can never assume someone is innocent because they haven't been caught or you've heard "good things".

I would treat any major division I college program and recruiting like a 90s power hitter and steroids. Regardless of what they say, you can never really know (for better or worse).

[Pumpy Tudors]

Mike Anderson and Leonard Hamilton are having hardcore gay anal sex right now in my living room. I don't need mysterious sources to tell me that. I have my own eyes, a director of photography, a gaffer, and CBS News here. Beat that, hotshots.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Snaer shopped around for the highest dollar whether you know it or not. His 'handler' approached the Mizzou staff two days before he signed with Florida State to see if their stance/"offer" had changed. Melvin Watkins told him no and that's where it ended.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Count yourself as blessed that you don't know the inner workings of recruiting and just how nasty it can be. It would ruin college basketball for most people.

Shopped for the highest dollar amount? Why would a top player from Socal pick a school in Missouri with no basketball history? Because he had a swell relationship with Anderson? I also like how you claim to know how his recruitment went. Sure, some random poster who probably gets his "premium" information from insidemizzou.com freely and without filter, yet the NCAA and everyone else just pretends like nothing is going on? If the recruitment of a kid from Socal is crystal clear to someone from Missouri, it should be one hell of a juicy story for any news company to break. Hell, even Scout.com would love to break a story like that.

I'll agree with you that Snaer's recruitment is dirty, but I'm not sold it's as dirty as some of these kids are (Cousins, Sidney, Stephenson), but unless you're intentionally being obtuse, even you don't buy your own crap.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So what do you consider 'breaking the rules'? There are absolute rules and then there are loopholes that all coaches exploit which are not violations. If you're referring to those things, then your absolutely right that Coach Anderson maximizes his opportunities in that regard. If you're talking about paying players or representatives, then my point remains that he has never done that at Mizzou.

Jesus Christ. Unless you are the son of Anderson or a stalker, you are just talking out of your ass now.

It is a good point you bring up though. There is a grey area which is permissible but some people consider it iffy which sometimes gets confused with a recruiting violation which is often cut and dry.

Just a slippery slope. Next thing you know, you're nickname is Slick Rick

[the_meanstrosity]

pix plz thx

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Mike Anderson and Leonard Hamilton are having hardcore gay anal sex right now in my living room. I don't need mysterious sources to tell me that. I have my own eyes, a director of photography, a gaffer, and CBS News here. Beat that, hotshots.

[the_meanstrosity]

If he were the son of Anderson then he'd be driving while intoxicated on his way to play for his dad, lol.

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Jesus Christ. Unless you are the son of Anderson or a stalker, you are just talking out of your ass now.

Just a slippery slope. Next thing you know, you're nickname is Slick Rick

[Karlifornia]

I'm pretty convinced MBBF would have delivered the same line for Snyder back in the day that he's delivering about Anderson now.

That's not to incriminate Anderson, but MBBF seems pretty willing to recite the current company line once he's declared his loyalties.

[the_meanstrosity]

Oh I'm sure he would. Most of those guys on the Tigerboard loved Quin during his tenure at Missouri. Heck, he even defended Quin's violations by suggesting Quin did nothing different than what Coach K did at Duke and suggested Quin was only caught because he was a young head coach. His point was then trounced on when veteran coach Kelvin Sampson was penalized for doing the same thing. MizzBB is your classic college basketball fan. He loves his team and sees them in the best light possible. It's not a crime, but he expects us all to see Missouri athletics in the same light and that's just not going to happen.

And just to reiterate what you said, I'm not suggesting Anderson is anything like Quin Snyder.

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I'm pretty convinced MBBF would have delivered the same line for Snyder back in the day that he's delivering about Anderson now.

That's not to incriminate Anderson, but MBBF seems pretty willing to recite the current company line once he's declared his loyalties.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Actually, Leo Lyons was suspended this season for an arrest on traffic charges and failing to pay fines from 2006.

And as for your "sources", you're the same guy I remembering claiming Mike Alden was gone from Missouri a few years ago. You pretty much killed all your credibility with that one "story".

Leo forgot to pay a parking ticket for $30. Most thought a suspension for that was even a bit much, but feel free to build it up if you'd like.

Alden was 2 hours from being fired on the day he hired Anderson. That's been reported many times over. It's not a secret in any way.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Heck, he even defended Quin's violations by suggesting Quin did nothing different than what Coach K did at Duke and suggested Quin was only caught because he was a young head coach. His point was then trounced on when veteran coach Kelvin Sampson was penalized for doing the same thing.

We have little to discuss here. The level of infractions between those two situations aren't in any way comparable. Sampson's infractions were much more blatent, though this should not be taken as a defense of what Snyder did in any way.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

And as for your "sources", you're the same guy I remembering claiming Mike Alden was gone from Missouri a few years ago. You pretty much killed all your credibility with that one "story".

He's killed his credibility numerous times, in many creative ways. It almost needs to be its own thread, a running tab of how many times he has been wrong when so sure he was right.