11-30-2009, 02:53 PM | #401 | |
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Sure, Pete could've called for running plays instead or continued kneeling, but if Neuheisel didn't consider the game over, why should Pete? Sour grapes by the UCLA fans and players IMO. |
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11-30-2009, 02:57 PM | #402 | |
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Actually, most UCLA fans I have run into also consider Neuheisel more at fault for not being prepared for a full play response after calling the timeout. You probably should get to know more UCLA fans before you make generalized statements about them. Personally, my biggest problem is still how Carroll acted after it happened, and how he encouraged his team to act, the taunting, coming out onto the field, etc.
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11-30-2009, 03:02 PM | #403 |
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I have no problem with Carroll calling that play after the timeout. He offered to concede on offense and Neuheisel said no.
My issue is with the taunts that happened afterwards. Should have no place in the game. But I guess they need something to boast about after having underachieved for most of this decade. |
11-30-2009, 03:04 PM | #404 |
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You "blame" Neuheisel, yet at the same time you said you thought Carroll calling for the pass was classless.
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11-30-2009, 03:08 PM | #405 |
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11-30-2009, 03:13 PM | #406 | |
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Since the 2002 season, the Trojans have gone 90-12 (.882), won 2 national championships and finished in the top-4 each season except for the current one. You will find very few other stretches of success that compare. |
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11-30-2009, 03:15 PM | #407 | |
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Carroll extended an olive branch and Neuheisel poked him with it. After that, it was game on IMO. |
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11-30-2009, 03:27 PM | #408 | |
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11-30-2009, 03:27 PM | #409 | |
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Exactly what Rainmaker said. Neuheisel taking the larger part of the blame and Carroll being classless are not mutually exclusive.
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11-30-2009, 03:33 PM | #410 | |
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It's fairly common for coaches on the losing end exhaust what timeouts they have, and 50 seconds is more than just a play left. Neuheisel was well within his rights to call the timeout. His mistake was not properly taking into account who Carroll is and what he does and defending against the deep pass. Most coaches would have responded to Neuheisel's timeout with a play, certainly, but it would have been a conservative play, a run up the gut, some harmless play that ensures that timeouts would need to be called to stop the clock. Most would not have thrown the deep pass, because that's a clear show up play that is actually not even the smart play for the winning team to do, since a dropped pass stops the clock and an interception into coverage is far more likely than a surehanded running back up the gut. Carroll has long established his compete to the end mentality, though, and his willingness to run up the score, so it was stupid for Neuheisel to not account for that and protect better against the deep pass. And once again, something you seem unwilling to comment on, my primary problem with the end of game situation was what happened after the play, not what happened on the field.
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11-30-2009, 03:36 PM | #411 | |
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That teams should have 3 or more BCS Championships over that stretch considering the immense amount of talent that was there. The team should have won it in 2005, 2007, and 2008. Sorry, when you have more talent than every other team and don't win it all, you have underachieved. |
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11-30-2009, 03:38 PM | #412 | |
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I agree, Rain's stretching things with what he said on the "underachieving" thing but let's not give the Trojies props they didn't entirely earn. They in fact won just one national championship. At best you could say they won one, and won a disputed share of another. And with the talent they had on hand, any view of the past four seasons (post-Leinart/Bush/Chow) has to be looked at as a bit of an underachievement for what they could have, maybe even should have, accomplished. Please, it's bad enough you're a Husky fan, don't be blowing the Trojans, too, dawg.
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. . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 11-30-2009 at 03:38 PM. |
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11-30-2009, 04:28 PM | #413 | |
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+1
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11-30-2009, 04:32 PM | #414 |
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+2
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11-30-2009, 04:51 PM | #415 | |
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To call the recent Trojans runs "underachievement" is the height of ridiculous expectations. |
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11-30-2009, 04:56 PM | #416 | ||
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Would you have had a problem with UCLA intercepting the pass, running it back for a TD and then celebrating? From my POV the UCLA players were the ones coming across the field, and either way, if you don't want the other team to score than stop them. It isn't Carroll's job to stop his offense, it's Neuheisels. |
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11-30-2009, 05:15 PM | #417 | |||
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They won 2 National Championships, one of them a split between them and LSU. I'm not going to worry about nitpicking over split championships. Quote:
Look back in college football history - since the 1950's, no team has won 3 consecutive National Championships. Back to back has only happened (by my count) 8 times (Alabama twice, Oklahoma twice, Nebraska twice, Texas & USC). Only 5 times has a program won 3 titles within an 8 season span (Alabama, Nebraska, Miami, Texas, USC). I'm having a hard time seeing the success that USC has had under Carroll being described as "underachieving". Quote:
I get why you are reluctant to embrace Carroll's greatness - they're your rivals. But from a more neutral vantage point, it's clear to me that Carroll has done an outstanding job. |
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11-30-2009, 05:25 PM | #418 | ||||
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If you want to argue the play call was risky, I agree. But I fail to see how it was poor sportsmanship under the circumstances. Quote:
Neuheisel should've known that he'd provoke Carroll, and his team should've been much better prepared for the play-action pass. Carroll running up the score? Hardly. As EF27 has shown, that's a dubious assertion. USC's actions under Carroll pale in comparison to what has happened at other football powers. Quote:
I think both coaches are at fault for what happened after the TD pass - Carroll for allowing his players to taunt, Neuheisel for not having his players under better control to ignore the taunting rather than trying to escalate things. |
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11-30-2009, 05:30 PM | #419 |
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11-30-2009, 06:57 PM | #420 |
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I love that this conversation is still going on. I still dont understand why there is such a big deal about what Rick did in calling the timeouts. Matt Barkley is an idiot for also saying that UCLA "disrespected" USC in calling the timeouts? Is he stupid?
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11-30-2009, 06:58 PM | #421 | |
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UCLA escalated the situation, but USC should have had a flag thrown for having their players on the field celebrating. The refs did a poor job in handling it, UCLA made it worse |
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11-30-2009, 06:59 PM | #422 |
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11-30-2009, 07:08 PM | #423 |
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I guess I could probably take that back, although calling a TO in that situation was probably the wrong decision and a cheap message to send IMO. Seems to me the chances of somebody getting seriously injured in the resulting 4-5 plays are vastly superior to the chances of UCLA ever scoring 2 TD's in the same # of plays.
Last edited by bhlloy : 11-30-2009 at 07:09 PM. |
11-30-2009, 07:09 PM | #424 | |
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Fair enough. Pete Carroll has had a tendency to call TO's when the game is well in hand, just wanted to know if you thought he was a douche as well. I figured since those games were losses and Pete was displaying his poor sportsmanship, the Trojan fans would suddenly have selective memory Last edited by MrBug708 : 11-30-2009 at 07:15 PM. |
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11-30-2009, 07:36 PM | #425 |
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As a neutral fan, I fall strongly into the camp where the on-field stuff was entirely legitimate, both coaches and teams were classless douchebags for the post-TD incident, and it's hilarious for either fanbase to paint the other coach as a douchebag without their own being tarnished.
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11-30-2009, 07:40 PM | #426 |
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Rick was trying but failing to keep his sideline back. Can't see how he did anything wrong with that? The situation was well beyond his control at that point, unfortunately.
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11-30-2009, 07:46 PM | #427 |
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I actually went to a USC-UCLA game many years ago. I have to say that the fans of both teams have the highest level of douchebaggery out of any event I've been to.
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11-30-2009, 08:48 PM | #428 | |
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Barkley's statement is stupid. |
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11-30-2009, 08:54 PM | #429 |
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Carroll is classless in the sense that he was upset for Stanford needlessly piling on, yet doesnt mind doing it himself. Nothing more, nothing less
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11-30-2009, 09:02 PM | #430 | |
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First off, provide some evidence that Carroll has a history of needlessly piling on. Second, recognize that it wasn't Carroll's intent to "pile on" against UCLA - he was going to take a knee to end the game. When Neuheisel made it clear he wasn't done trying to win the game, Carroll responded in kind. That's a very different situation than Harbaugh going for 2 midway through the 4th quarter of a blowout just to get to the 50 point milestone. |
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11-30-2009, 09:34 PM | #431 | |
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That's not an issue of class, that's being hypocritical. And considering his initial inclination was to not do so, I think that's a hard sell. |
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11-30-2009, 09:47 PM | #432 |
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11-30-2009, 10:31 PM | #433 |
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Why does anyone really care about this, anyway? USC is going to the Holiday Bowl, and UCLA is going to an awesome new year's party on Melrose.
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11-30-2009, 10:44 PM | #434 |
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It's because they don't like USC.
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11-30-2009, 10:48 PM | #435 |
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11-30-2009, 10:50 PM | #436 | |
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. |
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11-30-2009, 10:52 PM | #437 | |
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Can't you say the same thing about the USC sidelines? True they shouldn't have been taunting but it's still the same argument. |
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11-30-2009, 10:53 PM | #439 |
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That's not true. I actually became a mini-USC fan last year because I thought their defense was a ton of fun to watch.
I'm just saying since 2002, I can't think of a team that has had the massive amount of talent that USC has. Not only recruited talent but talent that went on to the NFL. There are 5 or 6 years in that stretch where you can easily make a case that they had more talent than any other team in the country. They've had 21 drafted players the last 2 seasons (including a lot of 1st/2nd rounders). I think it's a bit disappointing that they only won one BCS Championship in that time. |
11-30-2009, 10:54 PM | #440 |
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That newspaper ad is awesome.
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12-01-2009, 12:56 AM | #441 | |
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Ohio State: 57 drafted, 13 first rounders Miami, FL: 46 drafted, 21 first rounders LSU: 44 drafted, 9 first rounders Texas: 35 drafted, 11 first rounders Florida: 41 drafted, 6 first rounders Florida State: 39 drafted, 8 first rounders Tennessee: 39 drafted, 7 first rounders Oklahoma: 38 drafted, 7 first rounders Has USC really been significantly more talented that the rest of college football? Have they really underachieved since 2002? I think the evidence suggests otherwise. If you want to talk underachievers, how about Ohio State and Miami? |
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12-01-2009, 01:23 AM | #442 |
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I promised myself I wouldn't post in this thread again, but holy crap - 7 straight PAC-10 titles and 6 major bowl wins is underachieving? Pray tell us who exactly has "achieved" this decade then. I sincerely hope you never ever end up in a job where you regularly grade other people's performance
Lost some really bad games to teams they never should have lost to? Sure, I'll be the first to admit that. But saying USC has "underachieved" might be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on this board. Last edited by bhlloy : 12-01-2009 at 01:24 AM. |
12-01-2009, 01:36 AM | #443 |
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Miami's is a tad skewed as most of those big draft picks came at the beginning of the decade where they did win a NC and came a bad call away from another.
You can make a case for Ohio State underachieving, although I'd argue that their talent wasn't really suited well for competing against speedy teams. USC also had 3 Heisman Trophy winners in that stretch and a slew of others who were candidates. If we were to list the players USC has had compared to Ohio State since 2002, it would look rather skewed (especially when considering NFL success). |
12-01-2009, 01:43 AM | #444 |
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And 2 of those Heisman winners were on the same team which won a NC and came a Vince Young away from winning another (let's not even discuss the share seeing as that is too controversial a subject) Which is different from your Miami argument how?
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12-01-2009, 01:43 AM | #445 | |
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Crapping out to a double digit underdog every season to blow your NC hopes is underachieving when you have that kind of talent discrepency over your competition. |
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12-01-2009, 01:46 AM | #446 |
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We'll agree to disagree. You think anything less than the national championship is underachieving, I think you are batshit insane.
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12-01-2009, 01:48 AM | #447 |
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I think when you have the most talented team in the country it is. Especially when the losses keeping you from a championship are coming against teams that have no business beating you.
Last edited by RainMaker : 12-01-2009 at 01:49 AM. |
12-01-2009, 01:53 AM | #448 |
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Except you have nothing to base "most talented team in the country" on except your own random perceptions, and when provided with evidence that other teams may have been just as talented, you choose to ignore it with more obscure perceptions you have. USC has recruited near the top nationally every year and has also been ranked near the top nationally every year since 2003. Beyond that, you are just making shit up to fit your argument.
And yeah, going back I am proud as hell of 7 straight titles in one of the 3 strongest conferences, 1.somethingcontroversial national championships and a close loss in another game. I have no idea who you follow but unless it's Florida, we've achieved more than you. |
12-01-2009, 01:59 AM | #449 | |
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I'm not a Florida fan, but they have won 2 BCS Championships the last 3 years and are on pace for a 3rd one this year. That trumps whatever consolation games you guys win. |
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12-01-2009, 01:59 AM | #450 |
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I guess Im in the Carroll has done a great job camp. I mean the Pac-10 was pretty competitive in the late 80's and 90's. Since Carroll took over its been USC domination. He has managed to lose some of the most inexplainable games but besides that I dont really see a flaw in what he has done. I think the Pac-10 has become a stronger conference simply because the other teams have to recruit so much better to keep up with USC.
Last edited by jbergey22 : 12-01-2009 at 02:00 AM. |
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