2008 NBA Draft/ Offseason Thread..

[MikeVic]

Yeah, Boozer is on another level for sure. But I don't like when athletes make it known they are going to stay, and then don't. There was the whole thing in this thread about the Warriors maybe counting on Davis to stay (since you know, he did say he'll stay). And then the Clippers go out and get Baron... and Brand leaves. I feel sorry for the fans.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yup, agreed.

Speaking of Brand, I have heard that his move to the Sixers (or away from the Clips) is actually being engineered by his agent Falk, who is both trying to remake his own image as a power broker agent again (lost his lustre since MJ retired), and has a long time grudge against the Clips.

I am torn on how to feel about Brand, but Falk reminds me that agents are basically slime.

It's real easy to put the blame on the agent in these types of things. . . but at the end of the day it's the players choice. When a baseball player signs with Scott Boras, he's making a clear decision what it's about to him. (note, big note here: I'm not saying this is a bad thing. The player has the right to do this. But let's not blame Boras when said player goes for the most amount of cash he can and ditches his current team to do it)

Falk didn't tell Brand to make the comments about him wanting to come back to LA. He simply got Brand all of the available offers together, and put them on the table. Brand will sign the contract, not Falk.

Imagine, a Duke PF screwing over the fans of a city. I'm shocked.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

I actually like the moves the T-Wolves have made. I still love Big Al and hope he does well with Love, Foye, Carney, Gomes etc.

I like Jefferson, but he still doesn't have anything around him. The 3 drafts before this years have been disasters, the best they've gotten is McCants, a guy who could be a good 6th man but he's a malcontent who thinks he deserves a starting role. I don't think Love is going to be the best compliment Jefferson, especially because of McHale's massive adoration of him. The last time he was this much in love with someone was when he spent years trying to get Ricky Davis, or how imporant getting Marcus Banks was in the Szczerbiak trade. Also, with Telfair seemingly gone they don't even have a single point guard on the roster. It's going to be quite a while before this team has a chance to contend.

[MrBug708]

Looks like the Lakers will be losing Turiaf to the Warriors. They offered him more money then the Lakers can spend without losing Sasha

[Groundhog]

Some good value out of the second round it seems. Nets sign CDR to a 2 year guaranteed contract. Heat sign Chalmers to a 3 year deal (first year is $250k above the minimum contract), with the first 2 guaranteed.

Spurs, who missed out on Maggette, try and compensate by signing... Roger Mason. In fairness, he had a pretty good season last year. Doesn't strike me as a "Spurs guy", but then, neither did Maggette.

Jason Williams to Orlando?

Bucks sign Bogut to a 72.5m 5 year extension.

James Jones to the Heat.

[Chief Rum]

I don't expect the Hawks to let him go, but the Clips' Dunleavy had dinner with Josh Smith and his agent last night. And they contacted the agent for Okafor. They suddenly have a lot more money available to offer.

[Groundhog]

Nathan Jawai, the "baby Shaq" from down under and 2nd rounder to the Raptors, signs for 2 years guaranteed. He's raw, but if his game ever catches up to his physical ability, he'll be a very nice player.

[MrBug708]

Clips are going after Smith first, Okafor second

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Clips are going after Smith first, Okafor second

Yup. My guess? They succeed in signing Smith to an offer sheet. Then Okafor either signs a sheet or re-signs with Charlotte during the seven-day wait period on Smith. And then the Hawks match, and the Clips are assed out.

As usual.

[DeToxRox]

The Pistons apparently are sicking of losing in the Eastern Conference Finals so they're pressing hard to trade for T-Mac to end their season weeks earlier.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

The Pistons apparently are sicking of losing in the Eastern Conference Finals so they're pressing hard to trade for T-Mac to end their season weeks earlier.

lol...so who do rumors have going back to Houston? I am guessing Tayshaun Prince at least.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

lol...so who do rumors have going back to Houston? I am guessing Tayshaun Prince at least.

It'd be Tay and Rip in my opinion, which is retarded.

The Pistons LOVE Stuckey, so he is going to play a lot next year, but where is the key. Joe seems to think he is a PG, so that could be Chauncey goes, and in fact his name is involved in most rumors.

I am fine moving Tay, I think he is overrated, but I'd rather send him back to Larry Brown with some pieces for Gerald Wallace who I love.

[DeToxRox]

Dola, Pistons are apparently close to offering CJ Miles an offer sheet. From what I know/hear he is a young kid who is atheltic as hell but very raw. Sounds like they only will offer if they're confident Utah won't match.

Anyone with knowledge on Miles have anything to offer?

[Groundhog]

I think you summed him up pretty well. Right now, he isn't much, but he's very young and has the atheltic ability to be a pretty good player. The couple of times I saw him play last season he showed flashes of solid play, but I don't think he's going to be a big minutes guy for awhile yet.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

It'd be Tay and Rip in my opinion, which is retarded.

The Pistons LOVE Stuckey, so he is going to play a lot next year, but where is the key. Joe seems to think he is a PG, so that could be Chauncey goes, and in fact his name is involved in most rumors.

I am fine moving Tay, I think he is overrated, but I'd rather send him back to Larry Brown with some pieces for Gerald Wallace who I love.

Whats the thinking on Afflalo these days?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Whats the thinking on Afflalo these days?

Actually, I view the Pistons looking to move Rip and Tay as a positive sign for Afflalo, who struck me as a little hit and miss in Detroit this year. If they do this deal, he probably becomes the top off guard off the bench, if Stuckey starts.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Whats the thinking on Afflalo these days?

He'll see time. Curry is going to play the kids a lot. He is on the summer team starting at PG. He, Stuckey, Sharpe, Amir and Samb are the starting five and playing a majority of the minutes.

I think Afflalo will be a niche guy. He can come in, and provide some offense, but generally will be there to force the tempo defensivley and be an annoyance on the ball. I could see 10-12 mpg this year, and eventually he could be groomed into a 15-20 minute a game guy.

[DeToxRox]

Afflalo got hurt by Flip's questionable rotations. He would go stretches with Afflalo producing well off the bench, then not play him for a few days. It hurt his development but I know throughout the year the vets said Afflalo surprised them with his offensive game. He wasn't expected to be as effective on offense as he was at times which is huge.

[MrBug708]

So what's his role next year? About the 8/9 man off the bench?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So what's his role next year? About the 8/9 man off the bench?

If we do not make any moves (which is what I suspect) I'd think the bench rotation goes ..

1. Stuckey
2. Maxiell
3. Amir
4. Afflalo

If they sign another swing man though he might fall further down the rotation.

Now if we deal Billups, he'll be 2 or 3 off the bench I'd assume.

This roster is really in a state of flux though until the season begins. The pre-season is going to be huge for Afflalo. I think he is going to be a Lindsay Hunter clone for what it's worth.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The Knicks apparently rejected a trade proposal from the Clippers where the Clips would take Zach Randolph and not send much of significance back. Not sure how I feel about this one - it would have been a good chance to get flexibility for NY.

Dodged...a...bullet. Thank God the Knicks out-dumbed the Clips on this one.

Some guys just aren't worth the trouble. Besides, we already have Randolph's lesser-talented, older twin in Tim Thomas.

[Logan]

Yeah I'm going to call BS on that one, just because I believe Randolph is the major stumbling block to legit cap room in 2010. If the Knicks could get rid of him that easily, they would.

But then again, they still are the Knicks...so maybe it makes sense.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Dodged...a...bullet. Thank God the Knicks out-dumbed the Clips on this one.

Some guys just aren't worth the trouble. Besides, we already have Randolph's lesser-talented, older twin in Tim Thomas.

Thomas is Zach's twin? Isn't Thomas an outside shooting SF and Randolph is a face up 5?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Thomas is Zach's twin? Isn't Thomas an outside shooting SF and Randolph is a face up 5?

It's actually more about attitude/approach/consistency on the court, then physical size/position resemblance. That said, Thomas a considered a 3-4 hybrid, not a 3. And if you actually mean "face up", then that means Randolph is also facing the basket (i.e. not back to the basket), and he is not a 5, he is a 4, and pretty solidly there. That makes them more similar in play and position than you suggest.

All that said, this was more about attitude then physicality (and at least Thomas doesn't do illegal stuff that I can recall).

[timmynausea]

I've been watching the Grizzlies-Bucks summer league game. O.J. Mayo looks awesome. Joe Alexander has made a few baskets but hasn't really gotten into the flow of the game. Then again, the Bucks have turned it over constantly and looked really sloppy, so it's hard to make much of it.

[MrBug708]

Since Marcus Camby was just traded to the Clips, will the Nuggets even bother jogging down to the other end of the court?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Since Marcus Camby was just traded to the Clips, will the Nuggets even bother jogging down to the other end of the court?

Link? Didn't see anything after a quick search.

[MrBug708]

ESPN has it on the nba page. Cost the Lakers a second round pick for Camby

[Groundhog]

Here's one:

http://www.ktvu.com/nba/16894457/detail.html

OK, so the Nuggets traded Camby for the rights to swap second round draft picks in the 2010 draft, and a $10 million trade exception.

Umm.

At first I was wondering why the Clippers traded for Camby, but considering they got him for next to nothing, nicely done.

I guess the Nuggets have an awful lot of faith in Hunter or Nene as their starting frontcourt.

Yeah, $10m trade exception is nice assuming you can do something useful with it, but I'm more than a little puzzled by this trade. I'd have thought that Camby has more value than this.

[Chief Rum]

Yup, I found it now, too. Yeah, that's a nice trade for the Clips. And Camby's only on the books for two more years--then they get that cap space back for LeBron (lol).

[Chief Rum]

Okay, so I guess the Clips move Kaman further away from the basket and ask him to take more of a Brand role? That's an interesting adjustment for him if so. He doesn't have Brand's offensive versatility nor has he ever shown himself to force the action offensively. But he has enough quickness to play out a little on both ends of the court. Kaman, get to work on your 15 footer and dribbling skills.

[Groundhog]

Yeah I don't see it either - Kaman is a low post guy. Camby is the more versatile of the two, so maybe they put Camby in the high post?

[Groundhog]

dola

And yeah, it's not exactly Duncan-Robinson, is it?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

dola

And yeah, it's not exactly Duncan-Robinson, is it?

Heh, no, it's not, but with Baron, Thornton, Gordon, Mobley and Thomas all being at least somewhat dangerous scorers, we only need the defense. And Kaman does score--just not on that level. Those two in the middle on D is going to make it very tough for opponents to come inside, either on a drive or posting up.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

dola

And yeah, it's not exactly Duncan-Robinson, is it?

That would be Bosh-O'Neal.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Heh, no, it's not, but with Baron, Thornton, Gordon, Mobley and Thomas all being at least somewhat dangerous scorers, we only need the defense. And Kaman does score--just not on that level. Those two in the middle on D is going to make it very tough for opponents to come inside, either on a drive or posting up.

The Camby grab is clearly a good one. However, the Clippers offense is going to have to rely even more on low % shooters (Davis 41% career FG%, Mobley 43%, Thorton 43%, Thomas 44%, and Gordon seems like a 40% shooter at best next year). Brand was a career 50% shooter and Magette was at 45%. So, I think there are going to be some serious offense problems for the Clippers next year even with the bevy of scorers. In the West, I just don't see them making the playoffs.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by John Galt

The Camby grab is clearly a good one. However, the Clippers offense is going to have to rely even more on low % shooters (Davis 41% career FG%, Mobley 43%, Thorton 43%, Thomas 44%, and Gordon seems like a 40% shooter at best next year). Brand was a career 50% shooter and Magette was at 45%. So, I think there are going to be some serious offense problems for the Clippers next year even with the bevy of scorers. In the West, I just don't see them making the playoffs.

Man, what a buzzkill.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Man, what a buzzkill.

Sorry - I'm just a realist. I remember the last time I rained on your parade was with Jered Weaver. So, I apologize for jinxing your team once again.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Sorry - I'm just a realist. I remember the last time I rained on your parade was with Jered Weaver. So, I apologize for jinxing your team once again.

Actually, Weaver's just fine and the Angels have the best record in baseball, so if that's jinxing, jinx away!

Seriously, I like the Camby deal for a lot things, particularly the price. I am somewhat offput, though, if this is the team we roll with this season, because we need more offensive depth of the type Maggette brought us--take it to the hole and get fouled type. Thornton can and should develop into that, but we need more than that. Kaman and Camby will make it much harder to score on us in the post and pretty much make our opponents one-shot-and-done teams--they won't grab many boards from those two. But a fast transition game and a good jump shooting team is going to cause us problems. Kaman took an offensive jump in his game last year. We will need to see another jump to get this team into the playoffs. Or we're going to have to bring in a decent scorer with the midlevel, which isn't easy to do.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Actually, Weaver's just fine and the Angels have the best record in baseball, so if that's jinxing, jinx away!

Seriously, I like the Camby deal for a lot things, particularly the price. I am somewhat offput, though, if this is the team we roll with this season, because we need more offensive depth of the type Maggette brought us--take it to the hole and get fouled type. Thornton can and should develop into that, but we need more than that. Kaman and Camby will make it much harder to score on us in the post and pretty much make our opponents one-shot-and-done teams--they won't grab many boards from those two. But a fast transition game and a good jump shooting team is going to cause us problems. Kaman took an offensive jump in his game last year. We will need to see another jump to get this team into the playoffs. Or we're going to have to bring in a decent scorer with the midlevel, which isn't easy to do.

But with Weaver, I wasn't a strong naysayer that said he would implode. If I remember right, I predicted a high 3, maybe low 4 ERA pitcher that would improve a little bit in his prime. I just said he was unlikely to be the revolutionary pitcher he seemed to be. So, my jinx still worked. It just happened that the rest of the team was good.

I do think Camby (if healthy) is a great pickup and improves the team. I just think Mobley (especially now that he is getting older - short SG's other than Jeff Hornacek don't age well) and Thomas provide some of the emptiest numbers in the league. And moody Baron has been overrated for most of his career (until he finally got it back together in G.S.). If Kaman improves, Camby is healthy, Baron is focused, and everyone else overachieves, the playoffs is a possibility. That's a long shot. They need to get new wing players if they ever want to really compete.

But what do I know - I'm a Wizards fan and my team is going to be just good enough to not win anything for the next 5-10 years.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by John Galt

But with Weaver, I wasn't a strong naysayer that said he would implode. If I remember right, I predicted a high 3, maybe low 4 ERA pitcher that would improve a little bit in his prime. I just said he was unlikely to be the revolutionary pitcher he seemed to be. So, my jinx still worked. It just happened that the rest of the team was good.

I do think Camby (if healthy) is a great pickup and improves the team. I just think Mobley (especially now that he is getting older - short SG's other than Jeff Hornacek don't age well) and Thomas provide some of the emptiest numbers in the league. And moody Baron has been overrated for most of his career (until he finally got it back together in G.S.). If Kaman improves, Camby is healthy, Baron is focused, and everyone else overachieves, the playoffs is a possibility. That's a long shot. They need to get new wing players if they ever want to really compete.

But what do I know - I'm a Wizards fan and my team is going to be just good enough to not win anything for the next 5-10 years.

Well, it's a long shot (the playoffs), but actually Thornton is a very good wing player (albeit more of a big wing like Pierce) who will be asked to do more scoring now, and I personally think Gordon is going to force Mobley to the bench. He's a short guard, too, but at least he is young, and he is certainly more explosive than Mobley. I completely agree with you, though, on Mobley and Thomas. They are an unfortunate waste. I understood the reasons for bringing them in at the time, but you reap what you sow, and here we are. What we really need is depth outside of those two, but it's going to be asking too much from our second rounders (although I like Jordan long term) or Paul Davis. I am still hoping we bring back Livingston actually, but he probably won't help us much next year either.

[albionmoonlight]

Not a bad move for the Clips. Probably better than overpaying Okafor as a restricted free agent, which I think was the other rational move for them to replace Brand.

Most importantly, this probably keeps them from overpaying for Josh Smith, which is a really, really good thing for them.

[MikeVic]

That's pretty cheap for Camby.

The Clips should sign Sprewell or J.R. Rider.

[Galaxy]

The NBA trading system, is well, a joke.

[BishopMVP]

Ref scandal gets worse?

Originally Posted by hxxp://pregame.com/forums/blogs/rj-bell/archive/2008/07/16/big-money-undefeated-in-accused-ref-s-games.aspx

Statistics indicate that NBA Referee Scott Foster Affected Games

Las Vegas, Nevada (7/15/08) News reports have revealed that NBA referee Scott Foster was involved in over 130 suspicious phone calls with disgraced ref Tim Donaghy. An examination by RJ Bell of Pregame.com of betting patterns in Scott Fosters games raises even more questions.

During the 2006-07 period under investigation, seven games refereed by Scott Foster had lopsided enough betting on one team to move the point spread by at least 2 points; those seven teams were undefeated against Vegas meaning that the big-money gamblers won a 7 of 7 times on Fosters games; the odds of that happening randomly are less than 1%.Statistics alone cannot convict, but its certainly noteworthy that seven times in Fosters games one team was bet extremely heavily, and all seven times that team won, said RJ Bell of Pregame.com.

Two of those seven games stand out: On January 19, 2007 the Kings opened as a 1.5 favorites at Boston; betting on Sacramento moved the line to -4.5. Kings won by 5, shooting 25 free throws, versus only 14 free throws for the home team Celtics. On March 20, 2007 the Nuggets opened as 2.5 point underdogs at New Jersey. Denver was bet so heavily, they closed as 1 point favorites. Denver won by 4, shooting 32 free throws versus only 22 for the home team Nets.

In prior reporting widely carried by the national media, RJ Bell of Pregame.com uncovered that big-money bettors won 15 straight lopsidedly bet games refereed by Tim Donaghy during the 2006-2007 season.

[Logan]

As someone who doesn't really need to hear more news before believing that there's something wrong with the refereeing, I'd love to hear that this...

News reports have revealed that NBA referee Scott Foster was involved in over 130 suspicious phone calls with disgraced ref Tim Donaghy

...is really all cause of an affair between the two. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[albionmoonlight]

If it turns out that another ref was involved in this, I would think that the public would have to pay attention. Stern's line of "one bad apple" does not have as much PR punch when he has to amend it to "two bad apples that you know about."

Of course, I thought that the Donaghy thing would matter more to the public than it did, so I might be overestimating how much people care about fair refs.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If it turns out that another ref was involved in this, I would think that the public would have to pay attention. Stern's line of "one bad apple" does not have as much PR punch when he has to amend it to "two bad apples that you know about."

Of course, I thought that the Donaghy thing would matter more to the public than it did, so I might be overestimating how much people care about fair refs.

the press seem complicit in keeping this out of the front pages too. if a player takes roids they rail against it for years every chance they get. if refs rig games they bury it as much as they can. and does anyone think college refs arnt rigging games left and right?

[Sublime 2]

Hornets sign uber bench player James Posey to a 4 year $25 million contract. From what I was reading the C's didn't want to go beyond 2 years for luxury cap purposes and really I can't say I blame them. Posey is great, and I'm going to miss him big time but there's no point in overpaying him till he's 35.

Good luck Poz!

[Groundhog]

Yeah, big blow to the Celtics. Posey became on of my favourite players during that Celtics playoff run. Looks like Posey wants to try and make it three rings with three teams.

Clippers signed Azubuike(sp?) to an offer sheet. He's exactly the kind of guy that they need IMO, as he's not as much of a volume shooter as the other guards on the roster.