2008 NBA Draft/ Offseason Thread..

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Vince

Haha. Have you followed this much HA? Like he responded to you -- Baron went out of his way to tell anyone and everyone that he was not going anywhere. Even after opting out, he kept saying "Golden State is where I want to be." Baron's move was as classless as anyone opting out of a contract could be.

It doesn't mean it wasn't within his rights...but he went SO far out of his way to attempt to convince everyone that he was staying that it was just absurd.

I'm not sure why people are surprised by PR moves? Baron said all of the right things at the time and it seems like only GS seemed gullible by what he said. Coaches are famous for saying that they want to stay where they at and they only want to focus on where they are. Then the next day they are at another school in a press conference

[Groundhog]

Knicks sign Duhon for 2 years. Good move.

[Anthony]

hmmm...suddenly Marbury is being pushed closer towards the door.

[Neon_Chaos]

One year left of a humongous contract. Bye Bye Stephon.

The sad thing is, even with Stephon's $22 million contract coming to an end next year, the Knicks are still going to be just about the salary cap.

I fully expect Zach Randolph and his 3-year contract worth ~ $16 mil per year to be one of the first unloaded just so that they have space to run after lebron in 2010.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm not sure why people are surprised by PR moves? Baron said all of the right things at the time and it seems like only GS seemed gullible by what he said. Coaches are famous for saying that they want to stay where they at and they only want to focus on where they are. Then the next day they are at another school in a press conference

Well, I think it's the complete 180. I know that coaches and such do it all the time, but Baron was practically idolized around here. He was the figurehead for the Warriors getting back to respectability, and not only making the playoffs, but pulling off "the biggest upset in NBA history." Fans adored him.

If he wanted to opt out, and he let the franchise and the fans know about it, his reputation would still be pristine around here. It wouldn't have changed ANYTHING about how the whole thing went down, and wouldn't have inconvenienced him in the least. Instead, he throws a curveball to the franchise a day after their Trade Exception expired.

If the Warriors were aware that he was leaving, the Exception could have been used to help bolster the team in preparation for his departure. So not only has he surprised the team by opting out, he has done so in a manner that actively hurt the Warriors.

Not only that, but Baron's statements that he wanted to stay on the Warriors weren't simply answers to questions asked of him. He actively sought people out to TELL them that he wanted to stay. Frequently.

Hindsight is 20/20, and looking back, his opting out makes total sense. Just about everyone around here is saying "I can't believe I didn't see that coming." But, we didn't see it coming. And now Baron's not exactly the most popular guy around here. The sad part is that it really didn't have to end that way.

[Rich1033]

Baron wasnt going to get any kind of decent extension from GS and may have even ended up being traded. The situation had to be very clear to him as it came to the deadline. So when the team he has always wanted to play for sent word of a 5 year deal it makes a lot of sense to opt out and take it.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with his choice. This is just being taken way too personally. Its not like GS was doing much to keep him around past this season(or even into this season). Im sure it wasnt his plan all along to fool everyone.

[MrBug708]

Anyone want Luke Walton?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Anyone want Luke Walton?

Have faith in Luuuuuuuuuke.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

Baron wasnt going to get any kind of decent extension from GS and may have even ended up being traded. The situation had to be very clear to him as it came to the deadline. So when the team he has always wanted to play for sent word of a 5 year deal it makes a lot of sense to opt out and take it.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with his choice. This is just being taken way too personally. Its not like GS was doing much to keep him around past this season(or even into this season). Im sure it wasnt his plan all along to fool everyone.

I see it both ways. I think Baron could have been more upfront, and Warriors fans are right to not like what he did or how he handled it. BTW, when did he seek the media out to tell them he wasn't leaving? Just curious on the timing.

On the other hand, I think the Warriors were trying to have their cake and eat it, too. They needed the money Baron had tied up in him for future years on Ellis and Biedrins and for potential FAs. They didn't want to give him an extension. With his injury history, I can't blame them for that either, but if you're not going to give the guy the extension he is looking for, he has every right to explore his options. If the Warriors (the team, not the fans) were blindsided by this, they only need look in the mirror. Plus, the whole Nelson last game thing. I don't know what happened to Baron that day (does anyone? Was he hungover or is that some unfounded Internet scuttlebutt), but fact is, Nelson has always been a bit of a control freak who makes impulsive decisions like this when he gets challenged. It was a dumb move on Nelson's part (doesn't matter how bad Davis is shooting, he at least has the ability to find that groove and take it up a notch) to treat Baron the way he did. Even if Baron did what has been said, he has done far too much for the Warriors to deserve that treatment from his coach.

[Vince]

Well, I don't want to come across as some sourpuss who is pissed that Baron left. The more I think about it, the better it is - with Baron, we were a good team who was going to be fighting for a low playoff spot who was going to have to rebuild (well, not exactly the right word...but change things up) in the near future anyways. Now we can get that started right away, and hopefully become a better team in the process.

[Karlifornia]

I'm not too broken up about Baron leaving. That may change if the team starts out 10-25, but I think Mullin can figure this out. I'd like to see the Warriors get Brevin Knight and Elton Brand.

[Groundhog]

Good thing about the Warriors roster right now is that they have a number of pieces. The fact that the team has been quite competitive, even if they did miss out on the playoffs, bodes well for guys like Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington, who have a much better profile now then they did at Indiana. Would be relatively easy to shuffle things if they don't land any big names through free agency.

[miami_fan]

Looking forward to see what teams offer some of these restricted free agents. With the unrestricted free market prety much dried up, the restricted free agent market could get very interesting.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I'm not too broken up about Baron leaving. That may change if the team starts out 10-25, but I think Mullin can figure this out. I'd like to see the Warriors get Brevin Knight and Elton Brand.

You don't want Brevin Knight. You think you want him. But you don't. Really.

[Groundhog]

Brevin Knight, as much man-love as I have for him, really wouldn't blend in well with the Warriors. Yeah, he can run, pass, and play D, but he can't shoot worth a lick. I struggle to see him being very effective in Nelson's offence.

[Groundhog]

Beasley battles Rose in summer league play, Heat win 94-70. Beasley 28 points and 9 boards. Rose 10 points, 4 assists, 5 turnovers.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Beasley battles Rose in summer league play, Heat win 94-70. Beasley 28 points and 9 boards. Rose 10 points, 4 assists, 5 turnovers.

Did you see the game? I assuming that Rose did not guard Beasley throughout the game. I took a look at the Bulls roster and I would expect him to at least hold his own with any of the forwards. 9 of 21 is not so good though. In fact, I am more interested in how Mario Chalmers played than Beasley at this point.

The true highlight for the Heat Summer League team for me was going to be the progress of Daequan Cook but unfortunately he got hurt last week. With the way the roster is currently constructed, I want to see how the young guards perform especially if they are considering bring in Marbury.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Did you see the game? I assuming that Rose did not guard Beasley throughout the game. I took a look at the Bulls roster and I would expect him to at least hold his own with any of the forwards. 9 of 21 is not so good though. In fact, I am more interested in how Mario Chalmers played than Beasley at this point.

The true highlight for the Heat Summer League team for me was going to be the progress of Daequan Cook but unfortunately he got hurt last week. With the way the roster is currently constructed, I want to see how the young guards perform especially if they are considering bring in Marbury.

Actually yeah, I did. And no, Rose and Beasley did not guard each other, of course. But, Beasley was getting defended by Tyrus Thomas and Noah for a large part of the action, so it's not like he was always being guarded by NBDL players. It was an impressive showing... sorta like watching him play college ball, actually.

Chalmers looked good to me. He didn't shoot a great percentage (about 2 of 6 IIRC), but he ran the team OK and played good D on Rose.

[Warhammer]

One thing you gotta remember, Beasley will have a greater initial impact, the jury will be out on Rose for one or two years due to the position he plays.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Actually yeah, I did. And no, Rose and Beasley did not guard each other, of course. But, Beasley was getting defended by Tyrus Thomas and Noah for a large part of the action, so it's not like he was always being guarded by NBDL players. It was an impressive showing... sorta like watching him play college ball, actually.

Chalmers looked good to me. He didn't shoot a great percentage (about 2 of 6 IIRC), but he ran the team OK and played good D on Rose.

Well it could be that I already think rather highly of Beasley or I don't think that highly of Thomas or Noah. I am not sure which one more true though.

[Groundhog]

Nets-Magic was the most entertaining game of the day IMO.

Courtney Lee and Derrick Byars were the only two guys who impressed and looked like NBA players for Orlando, but there were a lot of Nets who looked good today.

CDR looked like he was still in a Memphis uniform. I think he's going to make people regret letting him slip. Ryan Anderson looks like a nice guy to have come in off the bench, big and can shoot it out to NBA 3pt line. Brook Lopez had some baskets and blocked some shots, but zero rebounds. Nets smashed the Magic on the boards though.

I had no idea who Jaycee Carroll was before this game, but he's got game. Played point for the Nets and did a great job. 22 points, 7 boards, 5 assists.

[MrBug708]

Westbrook had a good game for OKC

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Westbrook had a good game for OKC

Yeah, I only caught the second half of that game, but Westbrook looked good. I still think he was a reach for Sea... uhh... Oklahoma City, but there's no arguing with his athleticism.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah, I only caught the second half of that game, but Westbrook looked good. I still think he was a reach for Sea... uhh... Oklahoma City, but there's no arguing with his athleticism.

I think he's a reach in the short term, but if the Sonics stick with him, he will reward them by his fourth year in the league and settle in as a solid scoring guard with good defensive skills.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think he's a reach in the short term, but if the Sonics stick with him, he will reward them by his fourth year in the league and settle in as a solid scoring guard with good defensive skills.

I agree, there is no reason why he can't develop in to a good offensive player, but yeah, it's going to take 3 or 4 seasons most likely, and by that time he's potentially a FA. That's fine if he's picked outside the top 5, but going where he did I'm not sure that people are going to be as patient with him as they'll need to be.

I just think a guy like Bayless has more star power, especially that high in the lottery, and has a good chance of providing meaningful minutes right away, if as a scorer more than a playmaker. I'm still surprised that he went as low as he did.

[Groundhog]

dola

I just noticed that the Warriors let go of Patrick O'Bryant, too. He's trying to stick with the Celtics now.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I agree, there is no reason why he can't develop in to a good offensive player, but yeah, it's going to take 3 or 4 seasons most likely, and by that time he's potentially a FA. That's fine if he's picked outside the top 5, but going where he did I'm not sure that people are going to be as patient with him as they'll need to be.

I just think a guy like Bayless has more star power, especially that high in the lottery, and has a good chance of providing meaningful minutes right away, if as a scorer more than a playmaker. I'm still surprised that he went as low as he did.

I am, too, but I will also say this about this class: I am not sure anyone taken below Westbrook is a lock to produce much more than he does in the same time frame, except maybe Love. It was a draft high on youth and potential, and its weakest position, IMO, was at the wing, while strongest were hulking, althletic PF/Cs and scoring guards like Westbrook. Neither small guards nor athletic PFs develop quickly--the best bet for early success is at the swing position. So while Westbrook is not an ideal Top Five pick, I am not sure there were too many others that should have been taken there either. There had to be a Top Five, but probably only three players who deserved top be there. And then there are about 15 players who should have gone 6-10.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

dola

I just noticed that the Warriors let go of Patrick O'Bryant, too. He's trying to stick with the Celtics now.

That's sad. I always cringe at lottery big men choices who aren't locks to compete right away like an Oden or a Beasley.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That's sad. I always cringe at lottery big men choices who aren't locks to compete right away like an Oden or a Beasley.

Did he really have a shot though? Here is a guy that was a project coming out of college anyway. Then he breaks his foot during his rookie training camp and played 16 games his first year and 24 games his second year. Oh yeah and he played for that great teacher and lover of big men Don Nelson. Reminds me a lot of Kwame Brown with the Wizards. O'Bryant may suck, but he was not really put in a position to succeed with the Warriors.

[miami_fan]

To whoever has the power to resolve these things,

Can you please straighten out the Atlanta Hawks ownership situation?

Thanks!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Did he really have a shot though? Here is a guy that was a project coming out of college anyway. Then he breaks his foot during his rookie training camp and played 16 games his first year and 24 games his second year. Oh yeah and he played for that great teacher and lover of big men Don Nelson. Reminds me a lot of Kwame Brown with the Wizards. O'Bryant may suck, but he was not really put in a position to succeed with the Warriors.

You're right. Not really a good situation for him. Which is another reason why it's just odd that the Warriors used a Top Ten pick on him.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Did you see the game? I assuming that Rose did not guard Beasley throughout the game. I took a look at the Bulls roster and I would expect him to at least hold his own with any of the forwards. 9 of 21 is not so good though. In fact, I am more interested in how Mario Chalmers played than Beasley at this point.

The true highlight for the Heat Summer League team for me was going to be the progress of Daequan Cook but unfortunately he got hurt last week. With the way the roster is currently constructed, I want to see how the young guards perform especially if they are considering bring in Marbury.

No love for Stephane Lasme? 10 points, 5 rebounds, 4 blocks and 3 steals in 17 minutes.

[Groundhog]

Can't watch any of the games today, so it's just box scores. Heat beat NJ 90-81.

Beasley not so crash hot today. 1-13 FG, 7 boards, 7 fouls, 5 turnovers. Chalmers 19 points, 9 assists, 3 steals.

CDR was quieter with 5 points on 2-3 shooting, while Brooks Lopez had a nice showing with 18 points and 7 rebounds, and Ryan Anderson with 18 and 7 as well.

[Groundhog]

Orlando Magic to sign Pietrus. Depending on Courtney Lee, looks like we'll get a chance to see if Pietrus can live up to his rep as a solid defender. Not sure how he fits in with Orlando's "jack up 3s and only pass the ball to Dwight Howard once every 5 possessions" offense.

Elton Brand to pull a Baron and sign with the Sixers?

To clear up cap room the Sixers sent Rodney Carney, a 2nd rounder, and Calvin Booth to the Timberwolves. Could be a good deal for the Timberwolves as I think there is a chance that Carney could do well with some court time.

[Chief Rum]

Beukker (however you spell his name) from ESPN says Brand is leaning toward the Sixers.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Orlando Magic to sign Pietrus. Depending on Courtney Lee, looks like we'll get a chance to see if Pietrus can live up to his rep as a solid defender. Not sure how he fits in with Orlando's "jack up 3s and only pass the ball to Dwight Howard once every 5 possessions" offense.

Elton Brand to pull a Baron and sign with the Sixers?

To clear up cap room the Sixers sent Rodney Carney, a 2nd rounder, and Calvin Booth to the Timberwolves. Could be a good deal for the Timberwolves as I think there is a chance that Carney could do well with some court time.

I've read in a couple places the T-Wolves also picked up a first rounder.

[Sublime 2]

dola

I actually like the moves the T-Wolves have made. I still love Big Al and hope he does well with Love, Foye, Carney, Gomes etc.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Elton Brand to pull a Baron and sign with the Sixers?

A done deal according to ESPN. 5 years $82 mil.

[MrBug708]

Brand is going to take 7 million over 5 years difference huh?

Interesting

[Neuqua]

Sounds like he did not like the way the Clippers gave him an ultimatum offer, and so decided to go out east where he would be more appreciated.

[miami_fan]

And Ron Artest is even more pissed!

[miami_fan]

Maggette to the Warriors.

[MikeVic]

Haha, nice class these guys have. Carlos Boozer, Baron Davis, Elton Brand. Am I forgetting someone?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

And Ron Artest is even more pissed!

Why?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Haha, nice class these guys have. Carlos Boozer, Baron Davis, Elton Brand. Am I forgetting someone?

Brand opted out to take less money than he could have gotten from the Clippers. I don't see how his class is in question.

[DaddyTorgo]

maggette to the warriors hopefully = posey back to the C's

i'm torn. Posey was absolutely key, but maggette would have been an amazing 6th man

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Brand opted out to take less money than he could have gotten from the Clippers. I don't see how his class is in question.

Actually he opted out to bring Baron Davis in, and that was the only way he would accept less money. If Davis didn't get brought in, or if he something like this has happened, Brand was expecting to make more money, not less.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

maggette to the warriors hopefully = posey back to the C's

i'm torn. Posey was absolutely key, but maggette would have been an amazing 6th man

Brand would have been a solid 6th man as would have Arenas and possibly Davis

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Neither Davis nor Brand are remotely comparable to Boozer. What Boozer did was cold.

Yup, agreed.

Speaking of Brand, I have heard that his move to the Sixers (or away from the Clips) is actually being engineered by his agent Falk, who is both trying to remake his own image as a power broker agent again (lost his lustre since MJ retired), and has a long time grudge against the Clips.

I am torn on how to feel about Brand, but Falk reminds me that agents are basically slime.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Why?

Because he decided not to opt out, and everyone else is getting their big extension pay days this year.