2008 NBA Draft/ Offseason Thread..

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I think he is making the right move BECAUSE he will be hurt again next year. Instead of getting 18 mil next year and who knows what after that if he is hurt again, he will get say 12-14 mil over the next 5-6 years no matter what. Add on the illusion of him taking less money for the good of the team (whoever that may be) and it is a win-win for him.

But I'd have to think that GM's would know this fact as well. That he's highly likely to miss a chunk of games over the deal.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

But I'd have to think that GM's would know this fact as well. That he's highly likely to miss a chunk of games over the deal.

Maybe. But I don't think Phoenix is the only team to look at player's injury history and believe that the medical and training staffs could prevent most if not all of those injuries.

Ultimately, I don't think this year's guaranteed salary is as big a deal for him as his guaranteed salary over the next few years.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Vince

So Baron Davis decides to leave nearly $18,000,000 on the table to pursue free agency. Not exactly sure why he'd want to do that -- he has been incredibly well-received here in the bay area, and he's basically the face of the rejuvenated Warrior franchise. There's no way he makes $17M this year anywhere else, and he doesn't seem likely to go to a team that stands any better chance than the Warriors of making the playoffs. What was he thinking here?

I heard an interesting take on this on the radio today during lunch. Assuming this fan was correct, they were saying that he was benched for the entire second half of a playoff game the Warriors lost because he was 2 of 13 in the first half? If so, I could see anger/spite being the driving factor in this decision and Baron may be determined to leave Golden State.

Edit: Meant the last regular season game, not a playoff game.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I heard an interesting take on this on the radio today during lunch. Assuming this fan was correct, they were saying that he was benched for the entire second half of a playoff game the Warriors lost because he was 2 of 13 in the first half? If so, I could see anger/spite being the driving factor in this decision and Baron may be determined to leave Golden State.

Edit: Meant the last regular season game, not a playoff game.

Well, that's possibly half-true. I've heard rumblings that he had some kind of party the night before the game, and wasn't in prime condition to play basketball. Not drunk or anything, but at least tired or hungover.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Agreed. So far, he's the only GM who's rebuilt and retooled piece by piece in this decade and has a ring to show for it.

Jerry West with the Lakers

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Wow, Baron Davis is a fool.

I'm a big time Dubs fan and frankly, given that in all likelihood he'll get hurt again soon, this isn't the end of the world provided they can re-invest the budget elsewhere.

I think Davis wants to play for the Clips

[Sublime 2]

Link: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketb.../celtics_blog/

The Celtics have made contract offers to two forwards: Their own free agent, James Posey, and Clippers free agent Corey Maggette, sources told the Boston Globe. The most the Celtics could offer is the mid-level exception (about $5.8 million), and it's doubtful that they could sign both players. The terms of the offers were not disclosed.

Posey averaged 7.4 points and 4.4 rebounds in 2007-08 and was a NBA Sixth Man of the Year candidate in his first season with Boston. The two-time NBA champion was a strong leader for the Celtics and opted out of the second year of a two-year deal on Monday to become an unrestricted free agent. Maggette averaged 22.1 points and 5.6 rebounds last season for the Clippers and played for Celtics coach Doc Rivers in Orlando during the 1999-2000 season.

No surprise offering James the full MLE, but I was certainly surprised they offered it to Maggette as well. Maggette would certainly bring some firepower to the fairly anemic second unit.

Edit: Added Link

[MrBug708]

I can't see Corey taking less money to win, I just can't see it

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Baron Davis to the Clippers, 5 for $65m

Link?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Link?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3470016

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Baron Davis to the Clippers, 5 for $65m

That makes me one sad panda.

[Groundhog]

I was a little puzzled that the Clippers opted to go for a SG in the draft to be honest, and figured they'd opt for at least a combo guard like Bayless. Makes a lot of sense now, and I wonder how long this had been the plan.

[Groundhog]

Baron
Mobley/Gordon
Thornton
Brand
Caveman

Wont get you to the NBA finals, but not a bad lineup on paper.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I think he is making the right move BECAUSE he will be hurt again next year. Instead of getting 18 mil next year and who knows what after that if he is hurt again, he will get say 12-14 mil over the next 5-6 years no matter what. Add on the illusion of him taking less money for the good of the team (whoever that may be) and it is a win-win for him.

Yeah, after some rational thought, this makes a ton of sense for him. He was clearly gassed at the end of the season (not being able to play in the must-win game at the end of the season being the primary example), and isn't getting any younger. Plus, he's averaged about 55 games over the last five years. Now he's got his last contract, it pays more than the single-year contract would have, and he's set.

Edit - I think I was just so taken aback at the announcement (everything and everyone thought he was going to play out that last year) that I didn't think about it.

[LloydLungs]

Finally Baron gets what he wants, to play in LA and put up huge stats for a crappy organization that will let him put up stats.

The Warriors are better off without Baron and building around Monta Ellis instead. Losing Baron is addition by subtraction. Life is bliss without his grumpy, selfish ass around.

Sincerely,
Hornets fan

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Finally Baron gets what he wants, to play in LA and put up huge stats for a crappy organization that will let him put up stats.

The Warriors are better off without Baron and building around Monta Ellis instead. Losing Baron is addition by subtraction. Life is bliss without his grumpy, selfish ass around.

Sincerely,
Hornets fan

[Brian Swartz]

Baron
Mobley/Gordon
Thornton
Brand
Caveman

Wont get you to the NBA finals, but not a bad lineup on paper.

That's if Brand stays. Probably he will, but I think he's going to seriously consider other options.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

That's if Brand stays. Probably he will, but I think he's going to seriously consider other options.

Any idea why you think that? Brand himself and the Clippers have both pretty much said this is to re-up for a new contract. I'm sure someone will come in to try to blow him away with an offer, but with the Clips drafting Gordon and signing Davis, it would have to be one heck of an offer to get Brand out of LA, where he has been the man for years now and has his own movie production company.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Finally Baron gets what he wants, to play in LA and put up huge stats for a crappy organization that will let him put up stats.

The Warriors are better off without Baron and building around Monta Ellis instead. Losing Baron is addition by subtraction. Life is bliss without his grumpy, selfish ass around.

Sincerely,
Hornets fan

Only if you can have Chris Paul fall into your lap.

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

That's if Brand stays. Probably he will, but I think he's going to seriously consider other options.

The quotes they had from him indicated he saw what happened with the Celtics and specifically opted out so he could get another star on the team and then re-sign.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum's Yahoo article

Gerald Wallace has fallen so far out of favor with Charlotte owner Michael Jordan that the Bobcats will look to move the forward this summer

Shocking for two reasons. He's their best player, and one of the most underrated in the league, and there's no way MJ is around the team enough to dislike anyone.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

That's if Brand stays. Probably he will, but I think he's going to seriously consider other options.

Supposedly Brand told management he'd stay if they went after Baron

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

The quotes they had from him indicated he saw what happened with the Celtics and specifically opted out so he could get another star on the team and then re-sign.

So since that is now done, why would he go elsewhere?

I guess that's more for Brian.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Supposedly Brand told management he'd stay if they went after Baron

I hadn't heard that specifically, but happy if that's the case. Nothing like blackmail to get our owner moving and spending money.

Actually, it sorta feels like he's now more willing to spend money than the other guy in town.

[JeeberD]

I haven't been the most observant NBA fan the past couple of years, but...Sterling doesn't own the Clips anymore?!?

Edit: Sorry...been drinking and I thought I saw "new" before "owner" in the previous post.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I hadn't heard that specifically, but happy if that's the case. Nothing like blackmail to get our owner moving and spending money.

Actually, it sorta feels like he's now more willing to spend money than the other guy in town.

Eh, isn't the Lakers salary at 75 million? How much more is he really suppose to spend? Though, Kobe is just the 9th highest paid player in the league

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Only if you can have Chris Paul fall into your lap.

Yeah, obviously a stroke of luck for the Hornets, but regardless, getting rid of Baron was absolutely necessary. If you haven't seen it up close, you may not appreciate the kind of poisonous atmosphere Baron brings to an organization when he's unhappy. And he always ends up being unhappy. Unloading him was just about the best thing the Hornets ever did, Paul or not.

I wish the Clippers luck. Maybe it'll be different this time since he's finally playing at home in LA, but if pattern holds, I see an initial burst of moderate success followed by slow degradation into immature malcontentism. He was openly tanking games in New Orleans -- it didn't get quite that bad with the Warriors, but getting benched during the biggest game of the year was not a great sign either.

[BishopMVP]

As for Baron, I assume you're talking about the PHX game 2nd to the end when he played 17 min? They blew an 11 point lead the last 7 minutes of the 4th quarter. I'd be pissed too if I were the teams best player and I wasn't on the floor when that happened.

EDIT - I mean, maybe he was hungover or tired, I still think you have him out there. And I'm sure, unless he was at a Vin Baker level, he felt he could have helped the team win the game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Jerry West with the Lakers

Jerry West rebuilt his team in the 90's silly. I said in this decade.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Eh, isn't the Lakers salary at 75 million? How much more is he really suppose to spend? Though, Kobe is just the 9th highest paid player in the league

Unfortunately, the 15th and 21st highest paid players are Walton and Radmonovich!

[Brian Swartz]

As far as Brand goes, I've always gotten the impression of him as someone who wants to play for a winner, and I think he knows that won't happen with the Clippers. Doesn't make him likely to leave, just makes it a reasonable possibility. Last quote I heard from him said he wanted to stay, but wasn't sure if he would.

[Neon_Chaos]

Last I read about Brand this week was that he wanted something like how Allen/Garnett/Pierce did in Boston. Stars coming together with a collective effort to win a title.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Jerry West rebuilt his team in the 90's silly. I said in this decade.

He was GMing the Lakers this decade

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Last I read about Brand this week was that he wanted something like how Allen/Garnett/Pierce did in Boston. Stars coming together with a collective effort to win a title.

Well, if he really believes that, he can take the MLE and come to the Celtics.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

As for Baron, I assume you're talking about the PHX game 2nd to the end when he played 17 min? They blew an 11 point lead the last 7 minutes of the 4th quarter. I'd be pissed too if I were the teams best player and I wasn't on the floor when that happened.

EDIT - I mean, maybe he was hungover or tired, I still think you have him out there. And I'm sure, unless he was at a Vin Baker level, he felt he could have helped the team win the game.

But that still means he's a guy who gets hungover/tired for the biggest game of the year. Ultimately, that's going to be a problem (we saw worse in New Orleans). Plus, he shot 2-for-13 when he was in there and was playing like a jackass. He's very tempting because he's ridiculously talented, but Baron turns out to be fool's gold over the long haul.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, the more I think about it, Baron made the right call. If he gets hurt this coming year for the W's, he's screwed. I guess I can't really blame him for exercising his right, though it would've been nice if he did the stand-up thing and clued in Mullin before the draft (which from what I hear, he didn't do)

Everything anyone had said on air and in the papers was that he's coming back, and then to switch at the last second is kinda low-class.

I wish him well, though I think realistically I wouldn't be shocked if Bill Simmons changes "Theo Ratliff's contract" to "Baron Davis' contract" in trade guesses in 2010.

[jeheinz72]

Should be interesting to see where the W's go from here, if they can spend that money ASAP on some help they still have a potentially nice lineup. Even moreso if Wright can give them a good 25+ minutes a night.

At least this secures Ellis and Biedrins in GS for a long while.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Yeah, the more I think about it, Baron made the right call. If he gets hurt this coming year for the W's, he's screwed. I guess I can't really blame him for exercising his right, though it would've been nice if he did the stand-up thing and clued in Mullin before the draft (which from what I hear, he didn't do)

i don't think this was the case. any GM worth his job would understand a player with a player option shouldn't be counted on to return and isn't a guarantee. it's not like the Warriors missed out on Baron's replacement, from where they were selecting in the draft. now if you tell me "had the Warriors felt Baron wouldn't be back - they'd have made a move to aquire Rose on draft day", that's a different story. alas, it didn't happen. don't give out player options then.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

Plus, he shot 2-for-13 when he was in there and was playing like a jackass.

You watch GS play at all? Shooting 15% and playing like a jackass describes half their team half the time. Playing that style, 2-13 halfs happened quite frequently.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i don't think this was the case. any GM worth his job would understand a player with a player option shouldn't be counted on to return and isn't a guarantee. it's not like the Warriors missed out on Baron's replacement, from where they were selecting in the draft. now if you tell me "had the Warriors felt Baron wouldn't be back - they'd have made a move to aquire Rose on draft day", that's a different story. alas, it didn't happen. don't give out player options then.

Of course you don't count him back as a certainty, but I heard him more than once on KNBR stating he thinks he'll be back. Just about every article written in early June had him coming back.

Like it or not, this was a shock/change of direction. Within his right, yes. I don't fault him for that at all, but that not withstanding, he could've handled the whole situation better. Word on the street is he was telling Nellie and teammates as recently as a week ago that he's wasn't opting out.

If you want to opt out, I don't think many people hold that against you. But to do it like this...

Now of course they don't grab Rose, that's exaggerating the point, but this was a PG-deep draft. I don't think it's a stretch to say that if they knew Baron wasn't coming back they would've at least explored the options to trade up and get Westbrook, Augustin or Bayless. With Baron's salary off the books, I think a team would've found it and the #14 pick not too far down to go.

[Anthony]

why play your hand? what would he have to gain with prospective/interested teams if he claimed "i'm totally out of here, i can't wait to move on to another team, preferrably LA which is my hometown that i would truly love to get a multi-year contract from due to my injury proneness"?

long story short - if there was a player of Baron's calibre available when the Warriors picked, they would've gone for that guy. Baron saying he was/wasn't coming back wouldn't have been a factor, since he's getting up there in age and is an injury risk (despite playing all 82 games last year).

even longer story short - no team will hang their hopes on what a player says, after what Carlos Boozer did to the Cavs several years back. this is a business.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

You watch GS play at all? Shooting 15% and playing like a jackass describes half their team half the time. Playing that style, 2-13 halfs happened quite frequently.

Yeah, granted he fit in better on GS than in most places, but apparently this particular display was too grotesque for even Don Nelson. Seems impossible, but there it was.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

why play your hand? what would he have to gain with prospective/interested teams if he claimed "i'm totally out of here, i can't wait to move on to another team, preferrably LA which is my hometown that i would truly love to get a multi-year contract from due to my injury proneness"?

long story short - if there was a player of Baron's calibre available when the Warriors picked, they would've gone for that guy. Baron saying he was/wasn't coming back wouldn't have been a factor, since he's getting up there in age and is an injury risk (despite playing all 82 games last year).

There's a difference between showing your hand and being straight up with your team and teammates.

And yeah, I'm not saying any of those guys are or will be Baron, but I doubt they take as big of a project in Randolph if they knew for sure they wouldn't have Baron. They likely move the pick for a player (Billups has been rumored) or pick a PG.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

There's a difference between showing your hand and being straight up with your team and teammates.

And yeah, I'm not saying any of those guys are or will be Baron, but I doubt they take as big of a project in Randolph if they knew for sure they wouldn't have Baron. They likely move the pick for a player (Billups has been rumored) or pick a PG.

you're wrong. if the Warriors wanted Baron's replacement, knowing full well Baron could possibly not return, OJ Mayo would be on the Warriors right now instead of in Memphis. if the Warriors are at the point where they need to start thinking of life without Baron, they go for Mayo and not pick Billups (who's old) and not pick whatever crap PG is available for them to pick from at the draft. you would need to give me a names of the PGs who were selected after the Warriors picked, then i would tell you none of those guys would be able to give what Baron gave. also, if they want Billups they can aquire him anytime they want, they have picks next year too. Warriors picked a project cuz they felt that was the only good thing available at the spot they picked in. Baron didn't play a factor in that.

you make it sound like Dwayne Wade just told Riley he wants to be traded immediately, and the Heat took Beasley instead of OJ Mayo when they had the chance to replace Wade or swap picks with the Bulls for Rose. *that's* fucking over a team. excerising your player option in a draft where the Warriors weren't in a position to get your replacement regardless is not fucking over the team. its not like his player option was a surprise.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

you're wrong. if the Warriors wanted Baron's replacement, knowing full well Baron could possibly not return, OJ Mayo would be on the Warriors right now instead of in Memphis. if the Warriors are at the point where they need to start thinking of life without Baron, they go for Mayo and not pick Billups (who's old) and not pick whatever crap PG is available for them to pick from at the draft. you would need to give me a names of the PGs who were selected after the Warriors picked, then i would tell you none of those guys would be able to give what Baron gave. also, if they want Billups they can aquire him anytime they want, they have picks next year too. Warriors picked a project cuz they felt that was the only good thing available at the spot they picked in. Baron didn't play a factor in that.

you make it sound like Dwayne Wade just told Riley he wants to be traded immediately, and the Heat took Beasley instead of OJ Mayo when they had the chance to replace Wade or swap picks with the Bulls for Rose. *that's* fucking over a team. excerising your player option in a draft where the Warriors weren't in a position to get your replacement regardless is not fucking over the team. its not like his player option was a surprise.

Uh....Mayo isn't a PG dude.

And the PG's after their pick are bad, I'm not saying they should've picked someone else, I"m saying they could've/should've dealt the pick for help or traded up.

I think you're over-stating my case here. I'm not saying he fucked over the Warriors. The Dubs are still plenty ok. The have the cash now to easily sign Monta, Azubuike and Biedrins and have StackJack and Harrington to go with them. Bellinelli, Wright and even Randolph are a solid future. They should be able to sign/trade-for some help to still make them viable for the #7/8 seed this year.

I never said he fucked over the Warriors.

I said what he did was low-class. And it was. Baron did a lot for the W's, but the W's did a lot for Baron as well. This is a guy whose stock had fallen so far in New Orleans after poor production and coach-killing that we got him for friggin' Bimbo Coles. Even with all that they handed him the keys, kicked out Monty (wisely) and let him run the show. He played great, no doubt, but the W's gave him a chance a lot of teams wouldn't have.

I don't like to say he "owed" them anything, because no one when that kind of money is involves "owes" anyone anything, but I think he could've handled the situation a LOT better in many respects. To show how out-of-the-blue this was, he and Nelson were supposed to golf this week. Nellie had no idea this was going down, that's how much Baron pulled the bait-and-switch.

His right to do so, yes.

The right way to do it, no.

Low class.

[MrBug708]

Someone is overreacting...lol

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Uh....Mayo isn't a PG dude.

And the PG's after their pick are bad, I'm not saying they should've picked someone else, I"m saying they could've/should've dealt the pick for help or traded up.

I think you're over-stating my case here. I'm not saying he fucked over the Warriors. The Dubs are still plenty ok. The have the cash now to easily sign Monta, Azubuike and Biedrins and have StackJack and Harrington to go with them. Bellinelli, Wright and even Randolph are a solid future. They should be able to sign/trade-for some help to still make them viable for the #7/8 seed this year.

I never said he fucked over the Warriors.

I said what he did was low-class. And it was. Baron did a lot for the W's, but the W's did a lot for Baron as well. This is a guy whose stock had fallen so far in New Orleans after poor production and coach-killing that we got him for friggin' Bimbo Coles. Even with all that they handed him the keys, kicked out Monty (wisely) and let him run the show. He played great, no doubt, but the W's gave him a chance a lot of teams wouldn't have.

I don't like to say he "owed" them anything, because no one when that kind of money is involves "owes" anyone anything, but I think he could've handled the situation a LOT better in many respects. To show how out-of-the-blue this was, he and Nelson were supposed to golf this week. Nellie had no idea this was going down, that's how much Baron pulled the bait-and-switch.

His right to do so, yes.

The right way to do it, no.

Low class.

player option. i don't think you understand what this means.

if Baron Davis held a press conference and said "people of Golden State - fear no more. Alas, dear friends, i will not excerisize my player option and will, thusly, remain in your fair city plying my trade. In fact, just this very week I shall partake in golf with my trusted friend i gleefully refer to as Nellie, so, as you can see, it's clear i intend to remain here. Chris Mullin - heed my words - do not, i repeat sir, do not adjust your plan with even the slightest doubt that i will renege on my word. I implore you to operate your team as if I will remain here." and THEN excersized his player option, then yeah, that's pretty classless.

[jeheinz72]

Which, without your overexaggeration, is essentially what he did.

[miami_fan]

So the Wizards are going to continue on with the Arenas/Jaimison/Butler trio for at least the next two years. Not sure I like the moves but I don't think they had other moves to make.

[MikeVic]

They're all good players, but can they really win a championship with that trio? It was a tough scenario I think.

[DaddyTorgo]

report in the boston globe this morning that corey magette was contacted by the C's and offered their full midlevel exception and he was "flattered" and seriously considering it - said he'd be willing to take the paycut and a role as "6th man" to win a championship -- he's also very close with Doc Rivers (their families are very close -- doc went to HS with his mom and etc.)

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

player option. i don't think you understand what this means.

if Baron Davis held a press conference and said "people of Golden State - fear no more. Alas, dear friends, i will not excerisize my player option and will, thusly, remain in your fair city plying my trade. In fact, just this very week I shall partake in golf with my trusted friend i gleefully refer to as Nellie, so, as you can see, it's clear i intend to remain here. Chris Mullin - heed my words - do not, i repeat sir, do not adjust your plan with even the slightest doubt that i will renege on my word. I implore you to operate your team as if I will remain here." and THEN excersized his player option, then yeah, that's pretty classless.

Haha. Have you followed this much HA? Like he responded to you -- Baron went out of his way to tell anyone and everyone that he was not going anywhere. Even after opting out, he kept saying "Golden State is where I want to be." Baron's move was as classless as anyone opting out of a contract could be.

It doesn't mean it wasn't within his rights...but he went SO far out of his way to attempt to convince everyone that he was staying that it was just absurd.