We have a NBA RIOT in DETROIT! (The 2004 Palace Fight)

[Anthony]

the only fan who should get in trouble was the intial beer thrower. after that anyone else could have cited self defense once artest and jackson went into the stands.

"i freaked out, your honor, i saw a large, athletic menacing individual rush into the stands in my direction and i felt i was in danger. i tried to defend myself."

it sucks that some Pacers won't get arrested. this is a fucked up country sometimes. become famous and the law is mostly on your side.

[kingfc22]

From ESPN.com

Associated Press

NEW YORK -- The NBA suspended Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson of Indiana and Ben Wallace of Detroit on Saturday for taking part in one of the ugliest brawls in U.S. sports history. The suspensions were indefinite, and the league was still investigating Friday night's melee, which commissioner David Stern called "shocking, repulsive and inexcusable -- a humiliation for everyone associated with the NBA." The league issued a statement saying it was reviewing rules and security procedures "so that fans can continue to attend our games unthreatened by events such as the ones that occurred last night." Artest, O'Neal and Jackson -- all of whom threw punches at fans during the fight at the end of Friday night's nationally televised Pacers-Pistons game -- were to begin serving their suspensions Saturday night, when the Pacers played a home game against Orlando. Wallace's suspension will begin with the Pistons' next home game, Sunday night against the Charlotte Bobcats. Pistons spokesman Tom Wilson said Saturday that the team plans to use "playoff-level security" starting with that game, doubling the number of armed police and increasing arena security by about 25 percent, though he couldn't say how many police and security that would be. "Our investigation is ongoing, and I expect it to be completed by tomorrow evening," Stern said in his statement. The brawl was shocking, with Artest and Jackson bolting into the stands near center court and throwing punches at fans after debris was thrown at the players. Later, fans who came onto the court were punched in the face by Artest and O'Neal. Wallace began the fracas by delivering a hard two-handed shove to Artest after Wallace was fouled on a drive to the basket with 45.9 seconds remaining. After the melee broke out, the referees called off the remainder of the game. "This demonstrates why our players must not enter the stands, whatever the provocation or poisonous behavior of people attending the games," Stern said.

[jbmagic]

local channel here in los angeles saying

saying artest, o' neal and jackson could be out for the whole season...

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Throwing a beer is one thing. Going into the stands and beating the shit out of someone is totally different.

Who got the shit beat out of them?

[clintl]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

the only fan who should get in trouble was the intial beer thrower. after that anyone else could have cited self defense once artest and jackson went into the stands.

You did see all those fans lining up to throw whatever they could at the Pacers when they were trying to leave the floor, didn't you? None of that was in any way self defense. Certainly, self defense had nothing to do with the chair that was thrown.

[Anthony]

anyone involved in the fracas itself, i mean.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

local channel here in los angeles saying

saying artest, o' neal and jackson could be out for the whole season...

I've seen the replay several times now, and I think that would be fair. Yes, the fans were out of line, but these athletes were much more out of line in my opinion.

[Eaglesfan27]

Dola - Also, they shouldn't be paid during their suspension. A season's worth of salary should be lost (or donated to charity.)

[cmp]

Wallace should be suspended for 3-5 games. Artest and Jackson should be gone for at least 20, in my opinion. O'Neal should get around 10. Artest is a maniac who should not be in the NBA. He wasn't acting in self-defense at all. Plus, he ended up going after the wrong guy and for assaulting an innocent bystander he should be thrown in jail. Jackson was as much in the wrong as Artest also. O'Neal on the other hand seemed to be trying to defend his teammate, but, he clocked a man who was on the ground and was already being apprehended by security.

Now for the fans last night, the ones I am most disgusted by is whomever it was who initially threw the first cup at Artest and all of those dumping whatever they could find on the players as they left. The fans in the crowd who were trying to remove Artest and Jackson from beating on their fellow fans were completely justified

[GrantDawg]

Would the Player's Association actually allow a year long suspension? I doubt it.

[clintl]

One thing I think is interesting is how the ESPN ex-player analysts were so vocally defending the players. I remember back when the Dodgers went into the the stands at Wrigley Field because someone stole Chad Krueter's cap, Mike Krukow and Duane Kuiper were writing a regular column on the Giants' home page, and said in their column that one thing that's stressed to ballplayers from their first day as a professional is to never, ever go into the stands, no matter what the fans are doing. I have to believe that's true in other sports, too, especially the NBA.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Would the Player's Association actually allow a year long suspension? I doubt it.

Nope. Even tho they're the weakest among the 4 major sports, it'll be interesting to see them at work behind the scenes this next week. It'll be really easy for them to file a grievance that the league failed to protect their players and they'll certainly do it if the penalties are too harsh.

SI

[Bomber]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Would the Player's Association actually allow a year long suspension? I doubt it.

Why would a year long suspension even be considered? Venon Maxwell went into the crowd and punched a fan in '95 and got 10 games. There isn't going to be anyone suspended for more than 15 for this.

[Bomber]

"I didn't start it. I just played the game," Wallace said Saturday before learning of his suspension.

What a bitch.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Bomber

"I didn't start it. I just played the game," Wallace said Saturday before learning of his suspension.

What a bitch.

Christ, I'm going to lose EVERY bit of respect I had for Ben Wallace after this. For the people who keep saying what Wallace did happens all the time. . . no, it doesn't.

Yeah, the cheap shot after a foul happens. The two T's and ejection happens. But most players don't stay out long after they've been ejected, not bother to pay attention to coaches or teammates frantically trying to grab them away and make repeated efforts to attack a player laying down on the scorers table.

Hell, out of all of this, the thing I'm saddened by most is how Wallace handled this whole thing. He's turned from one of my favorite players in the league to someone I really don't care about within a two day span.

I just put him on the trading block in TPB. I don't even want the guy on my computer team anymore.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I've seen the replay several times now, and I think that would be fair. Yes, the fans were out of line, but these athletes were much more out of line in my opinion.

As Hell Atlantic pointed out, maybe in the original fracas. But as clintl pointed out, the fans trying to pelt the Pacers as they tried to leave the court were well over any line of excusability. They all need to go to jail, every single one of them. I hope whoever threw the chair is in there for a while.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Well, here's a legal perspective for you. Self-defense is only allowed if you are in imminent physical danger. Also, self-defense is not allowed if you have a means of escape or ability to avoid the harm. "Provocation" has nothing to do with it. I am not passing judgment on what is appropriate, say with racial slurs, etc., bu the law says that if that happens, you are to remove youself from the situation. Under any legal precedent, getting hit with a cup of liquid by someone 20 feet away never qualifies as imminent physical harm. In addition, Artest could have escaped, retreated, or removed himself from the situation, by going onot the court or into the lockerroom (at this point, there was no on court mayhem occurring). Because he didn't, he is guilty of assault. Period. All other dangers after that were created by his actions. He should be convicted. I could make a pretty good argument that the fans IN THE STANDS were within their self-defense rights in defending themselves against Artest who was threatening them with imminent physical harm. Jackson has no legal defense whatsoever for going into the crowd and throwing punches. He was simply aiding the physical aggressor. "Watching the back of a teammate" who voluntarily went into the stands is not a LEGAL defense. He should be convicted of assault as well.

The beer thrower and actions of other fans who were not in physical danger are also guilty of assault.

As for the fans who went onto the court? This was justified place to go as a safe place of retreat in the middle of a riot. However, walking up in menacing fashion to Artest probably helps Artest in terms of self-defense. O'Neal's lunging cheapshot against the non-menacing fan who was about to be subdued by security -- that was clear assault as well (and brutal too).

I won't even get into the civil lawsuit repercussions, which are many (including injured bystanders against the NBA, the Palace, the teams and the players).

As for the chair instance that keeps being brought up, it's irrelevant to the player's actions. If you watch the video, it comes at the end when O'Neal is being escorted to the lockerroom. It came well after the incident began and was almost over. In fact, O'Neal was not responding to that. He threw all his punches well before that on the court. That said, the chair throwing fan is also guilty.

I have no doubt there will be charges and convictions/pleas. Although I have no idea what the sentences will be.

I also don't speak to NBA penalties/suspensions, but I no doubt think that Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal may be gone for the season (or like 40-50 games). Those of you who are thinking 10-15 are a little out of touch on this one. The NBA is going to look to set an example once and for all about going into the stands, and this will be it. You can throw out the precedent of other suspensions because a riot did not ensue in the other ones.

[KWhit]

I agree with your post 100%, Vinatieri.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Christ, I'm going to lose EVERY bit of respect I had for Ben Wallace after this. For the people who keep saying what Wallace did happens all the time. . . no, it doesn't.

Yeah, the cheap shot after a foul happens. The two T's and ejection happens. But most players don't stay out long after they've been ejected, not bother to pay attention to coaches or teammates frantically trying to grab them away and make repeated efforts to attack a player laying down on the scorers table.

Hell, out of all of this, the thing I'm saddened by most is how Wallace handled this whole thing. He's turned from one of my favorite players in the league to someone I really don't care about within a two day span.

I just put him on the trading block in TPB. I don't even want the guy on my computer team anymore.

he was pissed and he did something stupid. how many times has he done stuff like this? you're lumping him in with artest after one incident? yeah, you must've been a huge fan of his.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

In addition, Artest could have escaped, retreated, or removed himself from the situation, by going onot the court or into the lockerroom (at this point, there was no on court mayhem occurring).

I was thinking the same thing, but then I realised that there WAS still on-court mayhem occurring. Remember he had just been pelted by Wallace's headband right before this. I'm thinking Artest's lawyer could make a case that the court was NOT a safe place for him, so he had no place to go to remove himself from the situation.

I'm wondering how many NBA players start trying to have their "posse" provide security for them by standing behind the bench during games...

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I was thinking the same thing, but then I realised that there WAS still on-court mayhem occurring. Remember he had just been pelted by Wallace's headband right before this. I'm thinking Artest's lawyer could make a case that the court was NOT a safe place for him, so he had no place to go to remove himself from the situation.

I'm wondering how many NBA players start trying to have their "posse" provide security for them by standing behind the bench during games...

Much like the lockerroom area at MSG wasn't a safe place for anyone in his vicinity when he decided to throw a camera.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I see your point gs, but he has to look at retreating from the harm presented to him. If its the fan that he believes is putting "him in imminent physical harm," then he must retreat from the fan. I think he could have stood up, stepped into the stands, around the tables and onto the court or into the lockeroom. He didn't have to go into the stands and THROW PUNCHES. Or he could have pushed his way through the players surrounding the table, etc. Or as bad as it sounds, stay on the table. Getting hit by another cup of beer is, again, not "imminent physical danger."

Now, don't get me wrong. Tempers were flaring, people pissed off, etc. And some, maybe would have done the same as Artest. But they would have regretted it that night when they were sitting in the slammer. The fact the Pacers players were allowed to leave the Palace, frankly was questionable. A stricter DA/Police Chief would have had those guys (players and guilty fans) arrested before they left.

[DeToxRox]

Somehow, this has Jeffery Feiger written ALL over it.

[ctmason]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I think everyone needs to calm down and turn off the TV.

What we saw in Detroit is natural, healthy, and IMO what sports are all about. I mean, look at those silly Europeans and Cleveland Browns fans, they've known about this for years!

We're supposed to believe that tens of thosands of people pay money to watch grown men with exotic haircuts kick a white ball around? Please. We may be Americans, but we're smarter than that.

Folks, sports...like life, are about finding a reason to beat someone up.

The sooner we all realize that, the better I think we'll be able to appreciate our sports. Fact of the matter is, I only attend sporting events in the hopes that I'll get into a Pier 6 brawl at some point, and my friends and I have always felt that if you didn't come home from a game bloodied and with a torn shirt, well hell...there was no reason to leave your living room!

So I say good on Ron Artest, Jackson, Wallace and all those fans who got involved, you got it right! These guys are millionaires, what's a little rock 'em sock 'em now and then? I mean, wouldn't more people appreciate the PGA if Jim Furyk did the funky chicken with a few drunks off the 10th tee? I know I would.

Now if y'all will excuse me, someone just walked past me in the library wearing a Yankees cap.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by ctmason

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I think everyone needs to calm down and turn off the TV.

What we saw in Detroit is natural, healthy, and IMO what sports are all about. I mean, look at those silly Europeans and Cleveland Browns fans, they've known about this for years!

We're supposed to believe that tens of thosands of people pay money to watch grown men with exotic haircuts kick a white ball around? Please. We may be Americans, but we're smarter than that.

Folks, sports...like life, are about finding a reason to beat someone up.

The sooner we all realize that, the better I think we'll be able to appreciate our sports. Fact of the matter is, I only attend sporting events in the hopes that I'll get into a Pier 6 brawl at some point, and my friends and I have always felt that if you didn't come home from a game bloodied and with a torn shirt, well hell...there was no reason to leave your living room!

So I say good on Ron Artest, Jackson, Wallace and all those fans who got involved, you got it right! These guys are millionaires, what's a little rock 'em sock 'em now and then? I mean, wouldn't more people appreciate the PGA if Jim Furyk did the funky chicken with a few drunks off the 10th tee? I know I would.

Now if y'all will excuse me, someone just walked past me in the library wearing a Yankees cap.

Actually, if Furyk did that, I'd be a fan.

[DeToxRox]

Just one more point I need to make: People saying Ben Wallace started this whole thing are way off base. Everything on the court before Artest went in the stands he is responsible for. But when Artest is sitting there, Wallace has no control over that. Artest could've just walked away. Do I condone a beer thrown at him? Obviously not. Did I think it was funny. Of course. But to put this all on Ben Wallace is a stretch.

[Bomber]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Just one more point I need to make: People saying Ben Wallace started this whole thing are way off base. Everything on the court before Artest went in the stands he is responsible for. But when Artest is sitting there, Wallace has no control over that. Artest could've just walked away. Do I condone a beer thrown at him? Obviously not. Did I think it was funny. Of course. But to put this all on Ben Wallace is a stretch.

Not all of it, but certainly a large part. If he doesn't overreact to the foul this doesn't happen, if he leaves the court after being ejected or at least doesn't try to continue going after Artest this doesn't happen, if he doesn't throw the towel at Artest inciting the crowd this doesn't happen. He didn't make Artest go into the crowd, but he certainly brought about the circumstances for it to happen. I just wish it was another player and not Artest because its tough to argue for his actions being normal because of his past, but Shaq said he would have done the same thing and I think most players/people would have.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Did I think it was funny. Of course.

Almost spat out my drink when I read that line.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Just one more point I need to make: People saying Ben Wallace started this whole thing are way off base. Everything on the court before Artest went in the stands he is responsible for. But when Artest is sitting there, Wallace has no control over that. Artest could've just walked away. Do I condone a beer thrown at him? Obviously not. Did I think it was funny. Of course. But to put this all on Ben Wallace is a stretch.

I like how Ron Artest was just laying their on the scorers' table since he knew there was no way anyone would let a Piston player get to him. Hell I might have threw a beer at him for just being a fag like that, at least go sit on the bench instead of sitting there mocking everyone.

[G-Man]

Violence only begets more violence! Artest was wrong in taking the law into his own hands, even if he hit the "right" guy. His two teammates and the fans that either threw beer or engaged in fisticuffs should be arrested and charged.

Ben Wallace's reaction to the flagrant foul by Artest should earn him a three game suspension. Artest, Jackson and O'Neal should be suspended for a minimum of 20 games. The NBA needs to be careful with this incident. They are just now recovering from the strike.

I am truly saddened by the responses of some of the young people on this board who believe that it is not only ok but a person's right to resort to violence and take the law into their own hands.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Bomber

Not all of it, but certainly a large part. If he doesn't overreact to the foul this doesn't happen, if he leaves the court after being ejected or at least doesn't try to continue going after Artest this doesn't happen, if he doesn't throw the towel at Artest inciting the crowd this doesn't happen. He didn't make Artest go into the crowd, but he certainly brought about the circumstances for it to happen. I just wish it was another player and not Artest because its tough to argue for his actions being normal because of his past, but Shaq said he would have done the same thing and I think most players/people would have.

But in the same token, Artest shouldn't have went for the hard foul anyways. Up 15 with 45 seconds left, it's stupid. Should Ben have retaliated? Of course not. That said, Artest shouldn't have done it.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Throwing a beer is one thing. Going into the stands and beating the shit out of someone is totally different.

Those of you who are citing "self-defense" are out of your minds. Give me a break. If it were self defense Artest was looking for, he could EASILY have moved toward the center of the court away from the fans. No, he was looking for a fight.

There is an imaginary wall between the stands and the court - the fans should NEVER go onto the court and the players should NEVER go into the stands. When aArtest went into the stands, that turned a bad situation into probably the most horrible moment in US professional sports.

Who's to blame?
Wallace - minor blame for the initial push/overreaction. As others have said, that crap happens all the time.
The idiot fan who threw the first beer - a good amount of the blame for what he did, but what he did was not going to cause physical harm.
Artest - He gets 80-90% of the blame for this. What he did was inexcusable. He took it to another level completely. I hope he goes to jail (but I know that he won't).
Jackson - He deserves his share too. It looks to me like he wanted to kill any number of the fans in the stands.

Blame can be spread out to a lot of people, but the players should get the majority of it. I'm surprised that most posts here are defending them.

As far as the ESPN commentators who pretty much gave the players a free pass on this - the ones I saw are mostly former players themselves, and all of them have to have relationships with players. That is going to make them biased.

If you are a professional sports player, you are going to have fans scream at you, taunt you, and occasionally throw things at you (popcorn, beer, etc.). That should not give you a free pass to go physically assault them.

Again I ask the question. Why is it sooo acceptable that "fans" will occasionally throw things at a the players? When did "fans" get a free pass to throw items on players?

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Again I ask the question. Why is it sooo acceptable that "fans" will occasionally throw things at a the players? When did "fans" get a free pass to throw items on players?

Nobody did. But there's still no excuse to charge into the stands.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Again I ask the question. Why is it sooo acceptable that "fans" will occasionally throw things at a the players? When did "fans" get a free pass to throw items on players?

It's not acceptable for fans to throw things, but that doesn't give players free reign in retaliation. They're every bit as responsible for their actions if they assult someone in the stands, and just like the fans they should face the appropriate consequences for their actions.

[TroyF]

he was pissed and he did something stupid. how many times has he done stuff like this? you're lumping him in with artest after one incident? yeah, you must've been a huge fan of his.

I was. One of the biggest. He was one of my FAVORITES. One of the really good stories about sports. A guy who made himself into something so much more than what he should by all accounts be.

But. . . it's not only the incident. It's him stating he didn't help start it and laying this all on Artest. It's almost always what happens after a situation like that which disgusts me. You have the emotional outburt. . . then what? Do you admit your part in the problem or do you try to pawn it off on someone else?

Well, Big Ben is busy in the blame game mode. And it's exactly what I wouldn't expect out of him.

Not all of it, but certainly a large part. If he doesn't overreact to the foul this doesn't happen, if he leaves the court after being ejected or at least doesn't try to continue going after Artest this doesn't happen, if he doesn't throw the towel at Artest inciting the crowd this doesn't happen. He didn't make Artest go into the crowd, but he certainly brought about the circumstances for it to happen. I just wish it was another player and not Artest because its tough to argue for his actions being normal because of his past, but Shaq said he would have done the same thing and I think most players/people would have.

I'm glad someone else gets it. Everyone keeps pointing to Artest because of his history. But Wallace was the gasoline in this case. His actions were the trigger on this. And for him not to take ANY responsiblity for it is disgraceful.

DeToxRoxDVHStyle. . . you can believe I was never a fan if you want, but I can assure you I was. I'm not anymore. And a big part of it is the comments I've heard from him afterward. We all have a line we draw. He crossed mine. Don't worry, I'm sure he doesn't care about my opinion anyway.

[DeToxRox]

Troy - I know where you're coming from but as a Piston fan you need to understand my frustration level with everyone ripping on us because of aprox 50 assholes. What Ben did was deserving of a suspension, but in no way should he get what Artest, Jackson or O'Neil get. But never the less, whats done is done and I respect your opinion, especially since you did it without being snide and in a reasonable manner.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Troy - I know where you're coming from but as a Piston fan you need to understand my frustration level with everyone ripping on us because of aprox 50 assholes. What Ben did was deserving of a suspension, but in no way should he get what Artest, Jackson or O'Neil get. But never the less, whats done is done and I respect your opinion, especially since you did it without being snide and in a reasonable manner.

I don't think all Detroit fans are jerks because a select few were. On the other hand, I can't respect a player who takes no responsibility for his actions. I STRONGLY disagree with the assessment Ben shouldn't get as bad of a suspension as Artest. He was the spark plug in this. He helped incite those fans. And he should pay for that and pay bigtime for it.

I might have softened my stance on that had he shown just a teensy bit of humility in his comments after. It truly saddens me he didn't. If it makes any sense, the fact that he seems to think he did nothing wrong makes me wish his punishment be that more severe.

[JeffNights]

Anybody mention that Artest went after the wrong guy yet?

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I don't think all Detroit fans are jerks because a select few were. On the other hand, I can't respect a player who takes no responsibility for his actions. I STRONGLY disagree with the assessment Ben shouldn't get as bad of a suspension as Artest. He was the spark plug in this. He helped incite those fans. And he should pay for that and pay bigtime for it.

I might have softened my stance on that had he shown just a teensy bit of humility in his comments after. It truly saddens me he didn't. If it makes any sense, the fact that he seems to think he did nothing wrong makes me wish his punishment be that more severe.

I'd disagree with you, Troy.

Ben going after a fellow player ON the court is in no way comperable to Artest going after a fan off the court. In both actions and targets, Artest and Jackson did far worse than Wallace. But he is to blame and he should be punished pretty strongly. But Artest and Jackson are the ones who went in the stands and started a free-for-all.

[Blackadar]

This is probably the best article I've read on it. I may not agree with the final conclusion, but in terms of describing the incident, this is what I saw on tape.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...act/index.html

A new low

Only solution for NBA is to get rid of the guy who's the problem

In 1977, Los Angeles power forward Kermit Washington landed a punch on Houston's Rudy Tomjanovich that fractured Tomjanovich's face and skull, causing spinal fluid to leak into his nose. Up until last night that incident was described by many NBA experts as single most serious event of that kind to ever happen in the sport. Unfortunately, thanks to the events of last night, history might now have a new low point.

First, let's look at the play that set things in motion. With the Pacers holding a commanding 15-point lead with less than a minute to go, Pistons center Ben Wallace took the ball to the basket for what clearly was nothing more than a garbage-time bucket. Even Wallace's initial defender, Stephen Jackson, recognized the insignificance of Wallace scoring and stepped back, preferring to give up the score in exchange for regaining possession.

But once again, Ron Artest interjected himself into a play that had no bearing on the outcome of the game, fouling Wallace from behind as he went up for the lay-up. I listened to ESPN analysts last night talk about how Artest's foul wasn't of the flagrant variety, but that's hardly the point. At no time during that possession did Artest make any kind of play on the basketball. What he did was purposefully shove Wallace in the back and take a swipe with his off hand at the back of his head.

I worked in the NBA for 10 years, and one of the players I feel like I know the best is Ben Wallace, so believe me when I tell you that there is not a more gentle giant playing the game. I can recall a number of times when Wallace was placed in a situation where he or a teammate was being attacked and he chose to help diffuse the situation rather than engage in a physical confrontation.

But just a week prior to Friday night's game, Wallace had just buried his oldest brother, 61-year old Sam Wallace, making it all the more likely his emotions were riding higher than usual. Wallace is no fool. He knew Artest's intention was not to prevent a basket, but to invoke a response. If you look closely as Wallace is advancing, Artest lowers his head as if anticipating the shot that Wallace delivered to his neck. He knew what he was doing, and he got the result he wanted.

Pushing and shoving is relatively commonplace in most NBA games. Even the alleged "fights" of recent years have been nothing more than one big shoving match (you remember Alonzo Mourning and Larry Johnson in the 1998 playoffs?). Rarely is the case when you will see a player actually throw a closed-fist punch at another player. At the end of the day, the NBA is like one big fraternity, a place where your bitter enemy one year could wind up as your teammate the next. What Wallace did to Artest was not a punch, no matter how many analysts describe it as one. It was a shove, a hard shove to be sure, but nothing even close to resembling a punch. If Wallace, whose nickname in NBA circles is "body," a reference to his chiseled frame, actually did throw a punch, then Ron Artest wouldn't have walked out of Auburn Hills, he would have been carried on a stretcher.

Most of what happened next is open to interpretation. There is no question in my mind that Artest's body language, lying on his back on the scorer's table with his arms behind his head, did nothing to calm Wallace, who was fighting off teammates trying to get to him. Stephen Jackson, who besides Wallace was probably the most animated, only provoked things by taking a fighter's stance and squaring off with Lindsey Hunter. By this time several Pacers and Pistons players not on the floor when the play happened, including Reggie Miller and Derrick Coleman, had wandered onto the court, an NBA no-no that by rule results in an automatic one-game suspension.

Any time you have a blowout situation, which it was at that point in the game, fans begin to get antsy and look for other ways to entertain themselves, which is why I was hardly surprised when Artest was nailed with the cup filled with beer. Here are Detroit fans watching their team get smacked around by their most bitter rival and were seeing their best player being antagonized by the resident NBA bad boy. It's like if Bill Laimbeer clothes-lined Larry Bird and then walked up to the concession stand to buy a hot dog. You expect something to happen. Players have had things thrown at them before, in every sport, but it's like Pistons CEO Tom Wilson says, "no one goes down on the floor, and no one leaves the floor."

I'm sure Artest saw who threw the beer at him -- he went directly after one fan in particular. But when you do something as stupid as running into the stands, you not only put yourself at risk, you put the rest of your teammates at risk as well. While Artest was being restrained by security, Fred Jones was getting pounded in the back of the head by a man twice his size. Jackson went in right after Artest and started swinging wildly at a fan who doused Artest with his beer. And in what might have been the most vicious moment of all, Jermaine O'Neal, responding to a fan walking onto the court and confronting Artest, charged toward the fan and landed a punch that hit the man squarely in the jaw. That shot alone should earn O'Neal a 15-game suspension. It's the old mob mentality: When a fight breaks out, it's survival of the fittest.

It will be interesting to see how the NBA responds to this. Wallace should get five games because it was his blow that incited the melee. Jackson should get seven or eight because he was one of the fight's biggest instigators and was one of the first to go into the stands. O'Neal should get double digits because it was his punch that seemed to connect with the most force and it landed on a fan who at the time was not involved directly in any altercation.

But Artest should be thrown out of the league. How many chances can you give a guy who blatantly doesn't care about the consequences? Time after time we have seen this man suffer meltdowns both on and off the court. Throw him out. He doesn't want to be there anyway. Earlier this season Artest hinted to reporters that if the Pacers won the championship this season, he'd retire. Let the NBA help him out the door. You think his teammates enjoy spending countless hours defending him not only on the court, but to the media as well? Let him go work on his music label. What's the NBA waiting for? Artest to kill someone? After last night does anyone out there not think something like that is out of the realm of possibility?

It's not the players for whom the NBA should feel sorry. It's not the angry fans, either, whose behavior was both disgusting and completely inexcusable. Who the NBA should feel sorry for is the father in the crowd huddled over his daughter, desperately trying to prevent her from being hit by the debris falling from the crowd. Those are the fans the NBA is targeting in its media campaigns, and they are part of the constituency the NBA continues to lose.

[JeffNights]

Great Article, i think its fair and an honest assesment of what happened compared to what i saw watching live, then many times again on tiVo, then different angles from other stations.

"""It was a shove, a hard shove to be sure, but nothing even close to resembling a punch. If Wallace, whose nickname in NBA circles is "body," a reference to his chiseled frame, actually did throw a punch, then Ron Artest wouldn't have walked out of Auburn Hills, he would have been carried on a stretcher.""""

This is oh so true.

[KWhit]

That article summed up my feelings nicely. I agree 100%.

[DeToxRox]

Ron Artest should be THANKFUL he has basketball. I honestly shudder to think where he'd be without it.

[JeffNights]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Ron Artest should be THANKFUL he has basketball. I honestly shudder to think where he'd be without it.

INDIANA STATE PENAL

[stevew]

Indiana only had 6 players to use in the game tonight. They narrowly lost to Orlando by 3 points, and if a shot had gone in, they may have won it. Their Backcourt starters, Fred Jones and Eddie Gill both went all 48, and their frontcourt only got 15 minutes of rest between them all. Unless some of their players get healthy soon, the Pacers are screwed.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

local channel here in los angeles saying

saying artest, o' neal and jackson could be out for the whole season...

I guess that Artest will get that much needed rest that he's been bitchin' about.

[Craptacular]

Artest should be gone permanently. O'Neal should be gone for at least one calendar year. Wallace, Jackson, and anyone else with a major role should be gone for at least half a season. Artest and O'Neal should also go to jail, along with a large number of the fans.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JeffNights

INDIANA STATE PENAL

Actually he problably would never have gotten out of New York if it werent for basketball. Im guessing Rikers Island.

[DeToxRox]

Detroit Channel 4 (NBC) news put up the picture of the guy who threw the beer with the caption "WHO IS THIS FAN" lol.

Artest definetly got the wrong guy. This guy was the one who * I THINK * jumped on Artest with the Wallace jersey too. What a MORON.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by G-Man

I am truly saddened by the responses of some of the young people on this board who believe that it is not only ok but a person's right to resort to violence and take the law into their own hands.

Y'know, I haven't been accused of being "young" in a very long time.
Thanks