Blu-ray/HD-DVD format war discussion thread.......

[dawgfan]

Since most people that would have a DVD player probably have a computer and a high-speed 'net connection, I think the only real issue here is the cost of hard drive space and the ease of transferring downloaded content to your TV (PC? Video Game console? Specialty device?) vs. the cost of buying a new media player, i.e. HD-DVD player or Blu-Ray player/PS3.

Given the inclination to want to have a backup of important files, it may well be that Sony makes their money back on Blu-Ray if that becomes the recordable hard media of choice for people backup up their downloaded music, movies and TV shows. On the other hand, it sounds like Toshiba might be making some headway by making HD-DVD drives the standard as hard media drives on their computers.

I dunno though - I think it may still be more cost effective to backup files with multiple hard drives.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

New NPD numbers now reporting that Blu-ray stand-alone players have now passed HD-DVD numbers. Note that does not include PS3 installed base.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6475686.html

Sony: Blu-ray set-top players out-selling HD DVD
By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 9/5/2007

SEPT. 5 | DENVER—Blu-ray Disc set-top players within the last nine weeks have begun out-selling HD DVD set-top players on a unit basis, according to recent NPD Group research cited by Sony Electronics.

Sony touted the reversal of HD DVD’s long-running stand-alone dominance during its Wednesday press conference at CEDIA.

The most recent data from the NPD Group shows that standalone BD players now exceed 50% of all high-definition players sold.

Sony VP Chris Fawcett said the change occurred mostly due to the introduction of Sony’s $499 player. And according to NPD, today's number one Blu-ray set-top brand in the U.S. is this entry-level Sony model.

In attempt to fight this revelation, Toshiba spokespeople pointed out Thursday that year-to-date through July Toshiba HD DVD players enjoyed a 55% market share. Collectively, Blu-ray players cornered a 42% share, and dual format players held a 3% share.

According to a Toshiba statement, "While the competition may claim leadership based on one month of data, Toshiba has had continued sales leadership in every month since the original HD DVD players launched 17 months ago."

[Bee]

Looks like Warner Brothers might be going HD-DVD exclusive next...

hxxp://www.tvpredictions.com/warner091007.htm

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

New NPD numbers now reporting that Blu-ray stand-alone players have now passed HD-DVD numbers. Note that does not include PS3 installed base.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6475686.html

Well as the quote points out, HD-DVD still leads overall so your statement is a little misleading. Most of the articles I've read indicated this 1 month bump for BR came mostly from the Blockbuster announcement.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

Looks like Warner Brothers might be going HD-DVD exclusive next...

hxxp://www.tvpredictions.com/warner091007.htm

Not terribly surprising. HD-DVD really needs to land some exclusive movie studios in a hurry. The top 20 sales list for HD media currently counts 1 HD-DVD exclusive at #17 in the latest sales numbers and that's it. Blu-ray currently has 5 exclusives in the top 10 alone. The two studios that Toshiba has in their camp simply don't have anything available. They need Transformers to come out in a bad way.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Not terribly surprising. HD-DVD really needs to land some exclusive movie studios in a hurry. The top 20 sales list for HD media currently counts 1 HD-DVD exclusive at #17 in the latest sales numbers and that's it. Blu-ray currently has 5 exclusives in the top 10 alone. The two studios that Toshiba has in their camp simply don't have anything available. They need Transformers to come out in a bad way.

Blu-ray exclusives? Does such a thing really exist?

http://www.audioholics.com/news/edit...-little-secret

[Groundhog]

Somebody wake me when there's a winner in this "format war"...

As for now, and likely well in to the foreseeable future, I'll keep watching and buying DVDs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wal-Mart, along with some other retailers, are refusing to carry the $199 HD-DVD player due to product quality concerns........

http://www.videobusiness.com/article....html?nid=2705

[stevew]

Venturer makes shit. It's not that suprising, really.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Venturer makes shit. It's not that suprising, really.

I was somewhat confused by the notion that Wal-Mart had some level of quality standards for any of its products, but maybe that's just me.

Wal-Mart has an existing relationship with the Chinese manufacturer that is going to produce the low-cost BR player. We'll have to see how they handle that when it comes out.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I was somewhat confused by the notion that Wal-Mart had some level of quality standards for any of its products, but maybe that's just me.

Surprisingly, for once I agree with you. They sell cheap hunks-o-junk all the time.

[stevew]

It could just be the stress of having it on in the retail environment, but we've had 2 different HDDVD players shit it, a Samsung BR(basic one), and one of the Sony ones(bsp-100 i think).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting article. Spielberg and Geffen are not happy with the DW/Paramount relationship. Spielberg has also already stated his distaste for HD-DVD. A split would allow him to remove himself from Viacom and the HD-DVD exclusivity agreement.

http://movies.msn.com/movies/hitlist...1&silentchk=1&

[Bee]

Sounds like Sony is having some technical problems...

Reports of people having trouble with the new BD+ copy protection are starting to surface. The movies in question are Fox's Blu-ray releases of "The Day After Tomorrow" and "Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer."

BD+ is an extra layer of copy protection. With it, Sony should be able to change the keys used to unlock it. In short, this means that if a BD+ disc is hacked and copied, Sony can change the keys that secure future discs from being copied.

All in all, a good idea. However, reports of difficulties playing these BD+ protected Blu-ray releases are starting to surface.

Here is what we know so far:
Some Samsung players may be unable to play the discs, but a firmware upgrade should be available or in works. However, other people say they will not play on the latest firmware from the company. Panasonic players will play the discs but load times are high. Again, Playstation 3 seems to be the safest bet when it come to Blu-ray. It seems to play BD+ without problems.

What could be another major problem is that each time the studio changes keys, a firmware upgrade may be needed on some players. To make things worse, many Blu-ray players don't have an Internet connection, making firmware upgrades more difficult.

We hope this is not the case. If so, the Blu-ray camp may have scored a goal in its own net. Copy protection shouldn't make life hard for those who pay hard-earned money for their legal movies. This in the end may push people into downloading illegal movies, where at least they know the movies will play.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

Sounds like Sony is having some technical problems...

It's a double edged sword for Sony. Most of the studios that support Sony are on their side because of the copy protection setup. By the same token, it can cause setup issues much like what you cited. I'm personally not a big fan of the lengths both Toshiba and Sony go to when they set up their copy protection, but it won't be going away anytime soon.

[Logan]

By the way, I ended up buying an HD player -- the popular Toshiba A2. I really had no interest in getting into these new formats, even if one "officially" becomes the winner anytime soon. But I needed a new DVD player anyway, and when it came down to $230 for the HD Toshiba or $100-$120 for a decent upconverting DVD player that would still make my standard DVDs not look great on the new plasma, it was a no brainer.

Don't plan on even buying discs outside of the occasional great deal. Plan to use Netflix for my HD viewing.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I'm surprised Sony's Blu-Ray copy protection doesn't secretly install unauthorized software on the player that's illegal. Oops. Been there done that. Apparently, for them it's not ok to break the law and copy their stuff but it's ok for them to break the law and compromise your computer security.

However, like it's said above. Nothing like making life difficult for the 99% of the people who legitimately buy your product with no intention of copying it.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Logan

By the way, I ended up buying an HD player -- the popular Toshiba A2. I really had no interest in getting into these new formats, even if one "officially" becomes the winner anytime soon. But I needed a new DVD player anyway, and when it came down to $230 for the HD Toshiba or $100-$120 for a decent upconverting DVD player that would still make my standard DVDs not look great on the new plasma, it was a no brainer.

Don't plan on even buying discs outside of the occasional great deal. Plan to use Netflix for my HD viewing.

I thought the toshiba did a pretty good job upconverting. I'm still torn on what to buy, I may just opt for an Oppo upconverting player for now, as the HD media is not really available around here. And i don't really have a desire to netflix or buy 40 dollar discs.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

However, like it's said above. Nothing like making life difficult for the 99% of the people who legitimately buy your product with no intention of copying it.

Even if they break the protection, I believe the cost of BD burners and blank discs are so expensive that it's barely worth doing.

If they are going to be this willy nilly about stuff, why even make the burners and the blank discs right now.

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'm still torn on what to buy, I may just opt for an Oppo upconverting player for now, as the HD media is not really available around here. And i don't really have a desire to netflix or buy 40 dollar discs.

ive got an oppo hooked up via hdmi. no complaints at all, i think it looks awesome (plus my hd set doesnt do 1080p, so no need for a next gen dvd player anyway).

itll hold the fort for me until the format war is over, i think.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's a double edged sword for Sony. Most of the studios that support Sony are on their side because of the copy protection setup. By the same token, it can cause setup issues much like what you cited. I'm personally not a big fan of the lengths both Toshiba and Sony go to when they set up their copy protection, but it won't be going away anytime soon.

Stuff like this slows down adoption of new technology. If people hear that they can't play BR movies in some BR players...they aren't going to buy any BR player.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Stuff like this slows down adoption of new technology. If people hear that they can't play BR movies in some BR players...they aren't going to buy any BR player.

A prolonged format war will kill sales more than any copy protection issues. BR is already likely to be the format choice for the rest of the world with substantial BR leads in all other regions. The quicker that BR can increase their 2:1 advantage in America to wrap up this format war, the better off consumers will be. HD-DVD has to be concerned with the price drops worldwide of the PS3. That's going to put a lot more BR players in homes over the holiday season than they previously anticipated.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

A prolonged format war will kill sales more than any copy protection issues.

Bullshit.

Word of mouth on the people who can't play movies on the player they paid $500 for is going to kill sales faster than any format war.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Bullshit.

Word of mouth on the people who can't play movies on the player they paid $500 for is going to kill sales faster than any format war.

Completely agree.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Bee

Sounds like Sony is having some technical problems...

For some reason this sounds familiar...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Word of mouth on the people who can't play movies on the player they paid $500 for is going to kill sales faster than any format war.

If there was a large installed base, I'd agree with that. At the current time with the relatively small number of players out there, this isn't going to make much of an impact. This also could be as simple as a firmware fix. We'll have to see how that all works out.

As far as the industry and copy protection problems that the publishers cause on their own, they're making their own bed/mess in that regard. Specifically, Sony should have already learned from their previous rootkit fiasco. Hopefully they can release a firmware update to fix the problem before it gets out of hand.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by twothree

For some reason this sounds familiar...

Hell, this was from just the other day. You can put this in the growing folder labeled 'Things a Sony executive should never say on the record'.........

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...-stealing.html

Sony BMG's chief anti-piracy lawyer: "Copying" music you own is "stealing"
By Eric Bangeman | Published: October 02, 2007 - 09:12PM CT

Duluth, Minnesota — Testimony today in Capitol Records, et al v. Jammie Thomas quickly and inadvertently turned to the topic of fair use when Jennifer Pariser, the head of litigation for Sony BMG, was called to the stand to testify. Pariser said that file-sharing is extremely damaging to the music industry and that record labels are particularly affected. In doing so, she advocated a view of copyright that would turn many honest people into thieves.

Pariser noted that music labels make no money on touring, radio, or merchandise, which leaves the company particularly exposed to the negative effects of file-sharing. "It's my personal belief that Sony BMG is half the size now as it was in 2000," she said, thanks to piracy. In Pariser's view, "when people steal, when they take music without compensation, we are harmed."

Pariser has a very broad definition of "stealing." When questioned by Richard Gabriel, lead counsel for the record labels, Pariser suggested that what millions of music fans do is actually theft. The dirty deed? Ripping your own CDs or downloading songs you already own.

Gabriel asked if it was wrong for consumers to make copies of music which they have purchased, even just one copy. Pariser replied, "When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Making "a copy" of a purchased song is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," she said.

Countless studies have shown that the majority of music on portable music players like the iPod comes from sources other than download services. For most people, that music is comprised primarily of songs "ripped" from CD collections to MP3 or some other comparable format. Indeed, most portable music players comes with software (like iTunes) which is designed to facilitate the easy ripping of CDs. According to Pariser's view, this is stealing.

We've actually heard something similar to this view before. As part of the 2006 triennial review of the effectiveness of the DMCA, a number of content-related industries filed a joint reply with the government on the effectiveness of the DMCA and the challenges that lay ahead for copyright. The argument relating to CDs espoused in the joint reply could be summarized: although nothing has prevented consumers from making backups of CDs, this cannot be construed as authorization from the music labels for them to do so. Thus, there has been no authorization of said backups, and the coincidental ability to make backups currently should not be mistaken for fair use.

Pariser's views appear to be similar, insofar as she clearly suggests that consumers have no right to make backups of the music that they have purchased in CD form or even in download form.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

BR is already likely to be the format choice for the rest of the world with substantial BR leads in all other regions.

Not really sure where you are getting your info, but BR is lagging far behind HD-DVD in Europe.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by cartman

Not really sure where you are getting your info,

You aren't?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

A prolonged format war will kill sales more than any copy protection issues. BR is already likely to be the format choice for the rest of the world with substantial BR leads in all other regions. The quicker that BR can increase their 2:1 advantage in America to wrap up this format war, the better off consumers will be. HD-DVD has to be concerned with the price drops worldwide of the PS3. That's going to put a lot more BR players in homes over the holiday season than they previously anticipated.

I find it odd that you would try to separate the two. Copy protection issues will cause people to either go with HD-DVD, or stay out of the war completely. Neither is good for a new technology.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If there was a large installed base, I'd agree with that. At the current time with the relatively small number of players out there, this isn't going to make much of an impact. This also could be as simple as a firmware fix. We'll have to see how that all works out.

This seems to miss the point as well. A technological problem like this will help continue the issue of there being a small number of players out there. If you want to show your product as being superior, it has to at least work on the players you design.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by BrianD

This seems to miss the point as well. A technological problem like this will help continue the issue of there being a small number of players out there. If you want to show your product as being superior, it has to at least work on the players you design.

Exactly. If the movies I buy won't work on the player I bought, I'm going to be griping to my co-worker at the water cooler. "Man, this piece of shit won't even play the movies I spent $35 for."

Co-worker's gonna say "Hmm. Maybe I better hold off."

Maybe it doesn't prevent him from *ever* buying a BD player, but it's going to keep the installed base low, and suddenly Sony is relying on the PlayStation 3 to start driving adopters, unwitting or otherwise.

At *this* point in time, that's not a position they want to be in. If the rumored $399 40 GB model drops soon and sales take off, then maybe it is.

But movies that "don't work" are going to cause much greater backlash than a format war ever will.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Anybody who shrugs off "issues" that inhibit the fundamental use of a product (or as MZ says:"this isn't going to make much of an impact") is no marketing genius that's for sure.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Not really sure where you are getting your info, but BR is lagging far behind HD-DVD in Europe.

Blu-ray movie sales are currently outpacing HD-DVD sales at a 3:1 ratio in the European market. Stand-alone player installed base is 50/50, but that does not include PS3's in those numbers. Neither of those facts point to a lead for HD-DVD or even a break-even situation despite hitting the market earlier than its BR counterpart.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Blu-ray movie sales are currently outpacing HD-DVD sales at a 3:1 ratio in the European market. Stand-alone player installed base is 50/50, but that does not include PS3's in those numbers. Neither of those facts point to a lead for HD-DVD or even a break-even situation despite hitting the market earlier than its BR counterpart.

It's actually the other way around. HD-DVD is outselling BluRay 3 to 1 in Europe.

http://www.itpro.co.uk/news/119655/h...in-europe.html

[cartman]

And here's another article that refutes the myth that Blu-Ray is pulling away in the US. The sales figures from Amazon put both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD in a dead heat.

http://www.campaignhd.com/407_HDDVD_Sales_Soar.html

[stevew]

I don't think you have access to the internal polling data like other people do. Company projections don't line up at that ratio.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

And here's another article that refutes the myth that Blu-Ray is pulling away in the US. The sales figures from Amazon put both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD in a dead heat.

http://www.campaignhd.com/407_HDDVD_Sales_Soar.html

That graph maps sales rank, not actual sales. It's also an extremely misleading form of measurement. One big movie can cause a drastic swing in the rank, but the unit sales numbers paint a much different picture (BR movie sales hold a 2:1 sales edge overall). Also, that's far from an unbiased article or site. They make no secret as to what they're promoting. I could post some graphs and articles from a BR website, but they likely aren't going to paint any less bias a picture.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Here are the Nielson (NPD) VideoScan raw numbers (movie unit sales) for every week this year for the U.S..........

Week Ending | Week total | Year to Date total | Since Inception
2007-01-07 | 63 | 63 | 41
2007-01-14 | 68 | 65 | 43
2007-01-21 | 67 | 66 | 45
2007-01-28 | 68 | 67 | 46
2007-02-04 | 69 | 67 | 48
2007-02-11 | 69 | 67 | 49
2007-02-18 | 65 | 67 | 50
2007-02-25 | 68 | 67 | 51
2007-03-04 | 65 | 67 | 52
2007-03-11 | 68 | 67 | 52
2007-03-18 | 81 | 69 | 54
2007-03-25 | n/a | 70 | 55
2007-04-01 | n/a | 69 | 56
2007-04-08 | 62 | 69 | 56
2007-04-15 | 61 | 69 | 57
2007-04-22 | 52 | 68 | 57
2007-04-29 | 71 | 68 | 58
2007-05-06 | 60 | 68 | 57
2007-05-13 | 62 | 68 | 57
2007-05-20 | 58 | 67 | 57
2007-05-27 | 69 | 67 | 58
2007-06-03 | 61 | 67 | 59
2007-06-10 | 66 | 67 | 59
2007-06-17 | 64 | 67 | 59
2007-06-24 | 70 | 67 | 59
2007-07-01 | 65 | 67 | 60
2007-07-14 | 66 | 67 | 60
2007-07-21 | 61 | 67 | 60
2007-07-28 | 74 | 67 | 60
2007-08-04 | 66 | 67 | 60
2007-08-11 | 62 | 66 | 60
2007-08-18 | 66 | 66 | 61
2007-08-25 | 71 | 67 | 61
2007-09-01 | 68 | 67 | 61
2007-09-08 | 54 | 66 | 61
2007-09-15 | 60 | 66 | 61
2007-09-22 | 61 | 66 | 61
2007-09-29 | 63 | 66 | 61
2007-10-06 | 54 | 66 | 61

In summary,

--- Blu-ray movie sales YTD began at 63% in favor of Blu-ray and have held steady throughout the year. Blu-ray Movies currently account for 66% of all HD movie sales in the U.S.

--- Blu-ray movie sales at the start of the year started at 59% of the market being HD-DVD. Currently, 61% of all movies sales since the introduction of both formats are BR movies.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

It's actually the other way around. HD-DVD is outselling BluRay 3 to 1 in Europe.

http://www.itpro.co.uk/news/119655/h...in-europe.html

That's an article from nearly 4 months ago. First, the 3:1 ratio in favor of BR year to date is on movie sales. Second, the stand-alone advantage that you cited in this article is now a dead-heat in Europe (which once again does not include the roughly 1.5M PS3 installed base which also has BR players). I'll track down those numbers when I get a chance.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

New NPD numbers out for stand-alone movie players. Toshiba's marketing lady was trumpeting HD-DVD with the latest numbers, but failed to cite the market trend. In the last 5 months, the percentage of the market held by HD-DVD stand-alone players has fallen from 66% to 53%. Toshiba is quickly losing ground in this format war despite the cheaper price of their stand-alone players. These numbers have to cause them quite a bit of concern. Note that these numbers do not include the 2M PS3 BR players in the U.S. alone.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/toshiba101007.htm

HD DVD Claims Lead In Player Sales
The format's leading booster cites new research.
By Swanni

Washington, D.C. (October 10, 2007) -- Toshiba says standalone HD DVD players are once again outselling standalone Blu-ray players.

The company, which makes HD DVD players and is the leading supporter of the high-def disc format, is basing that claim on new research from NPD Group, according to Video Business.

Toshiba says HD DVD players began outselling Blu-ray set-tops in mid-September after several weeks of victories for Blu-ray.

Blu-ray sales rose during the summer, most industry observers agree, after Sony dropped the price of its entry-level player to $499. Toshiba's entry-level HD DVD player costs $299.

“When new models hit stores there will be a surge in demand. There were some weeks where we lagged,” Jodi Sally, Toshiba's vice president of marketing, said yesterday at a DVD Forum conference, according to Video Business. “But overall HD DVD continues to dominate.”

Sally says standalone HD DVD players now generate 53 percent of sales in the high-def disc category, with Blu-ray getting 44 percent and dual format players receiving 3 percent.

Sally did not reveal individual unit sales for the two high-def formats.

However, the statistics do not include Sony's PlayStation 3, which has a Blu-ray player inside. If PS3's nearly two million unit sales were included, Blu-ray would have a wide advantage over HD DVD.

[Bee]

If it wasn't for the fact that HD-DVD has an attachment rate 4 times that of Blu-ray this format war would be over.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Bee

If it wasn't for the fact that HD-DVD has an attachment rate 4 times that of Blu-ray this format war would be over.

How many HD-DVD's and Blu-Ray disks are sold per week in comparison to DVD's?

My point being, is the current market for next-gen DVD's even big enough at this point that whatever differences in sales between the 2 formats means much?

[Bee]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

How many HD-DVD's and Blu-Ray disks are sold per week in comparison to DVD's?

My point being, is the current market for next-gen DVD's even big enough at this point that whatever differences in sales between the 2 formats means much?

Yep, neither format move enough to make a blip on the radar compared to DVDs. I personally don't see either format becoming more than just a footnote before downloadable content takes over, although the HD-DVD going heavily into laptops might make it viable as a storage disc somewhere down the line.

[stevew]

I would think VHS tapes still outsell either HD format, unless VHS is totally extinct.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Bee

Yep, neither format move enough to make a blip on the radar compared to DVDs. I personally don't see either format becoming more than just a footnote before downloadable content takes over

Yep. I made this point a long time ago (post 139+) but got shouted down by some. This format war is irrelevant.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Yep. I made this point a long time ago (post 139+) but got shouted down by some. This format war is irrelevant.

I mostly agree, but I also think that for download to take over they need to get rid of the stupid "24 hour to watch" rule. Once I can download HD quality video and save it for later for a reasonable price, download will dominate. I can still see the media companies killing this like they've tried to do with downloaded music.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

How many HD-DVD's and Blu-Ray disks are sold per week in comparison to DVD's?

My point being, is the current market for next-gen DVD's even big enough at this point that whatever differences in sales between the 2 formats means much?

PR is everything in the early months of these format wars. Hindsight on the previous two format wars shows that Sony had the superior technology in both cases, but lost to VHS and DVD in the end. While the numbers are small thus far (leading selling movie last week was 16,000 copies sold), the one who is able to make the most noise early on is often the one to win.

FYI.....the next big sales boost will likely come when Transformers: The Movie is released on HD-DVD.

[ThunderingHERD]

Irrelevant war. By the time people care about upgrading from DVDs, players compatible with both formats will be cheap enough to dominate the market.

This isn't like VHS v. Beta where the different form factors made cross-compatible players impractical.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Dawgfan,

Here's some more info from yesterday's conference detailing the size of the market.

At the DisplaySearch conference held yesterday, attendees were treated to the latest information regarding the format war. Warner announced that '300' has sold over 250,000 copies on Blu-ray since it was released in July, while the HD DVD version has sold roughly 125,000 units. Sony also announced that the PS3 would soon be receiving a firmware upgrade to boost its Blu-ray interactivity functions.

On the whole, HD players have increased their market share, now at 5%, since August when it was only 1.3% of total DVD player sales. Additionally, HD players accounted for 27% of the revenue in the DVD player market. This trend is expected to continue through the upcoming holiday season.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

PR is everything in the early months of these format wars. Hindsight on the previous two format wars shows that Sony had the superior technology in both cases, but lost to VHS and DVD in the end. While the numbers are small thus far (leading selling movie last week was 16,000 copies sold), the one who is able to make the most noise early on is often the one to win.

I think this came up in the console threads, but superior technology doesn't really matter. It is all about availability and multi-vendor support. People don't care how great the technology is, they just want to be able to access the product easily and enjoy it. Sony often seems to go the high-tech/vendor friendly route while other companies go for the lower-tech/customer friendly route. I believe that is where they have missed the boat in the past. We'll see how the future plays out.