Ping: The One True Dark Jedi

[JeeberD]

Wow, Shorty can travel back in time!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, I noticed that too. Do you have a DeLorean, Shorty?

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I find it very strange that there is etiquette and manners for giving credit to someone who has used and abused other people's copyrighted work. I'm not taking sides here, but let's be honest - modding player pictures (that are someone else's work) is already borderline illegal (not making a profit from it helps). Saying SD was "bad" for not thanking someone doing borderline illegal stuff is just strange to me.

Of course, I do understand that we in this community like modders and their work, so SD should probably thank him. However, talking about "morality" and books/music hypotheticals, just doesn't make sense. This is a shady practice, but one we all like and enjoy. SD made a mistake - who here hasn't made one? He offered to correct that mistake - that seems pretty fair to me.

John Galt's a lawyer. Wait, make that a NEW YORK lawyer. Don't mess with Galt.


I can't believe I'm saying this, but Galt gets it. *checks for falling sky*

LL's holier than thou attitude that he deserves specific credit for his work, while failing to offer specific credit to those whose work he stole is hypocritical. He mentioned that he got the photos from various websites, but doesn't mention any site or team specifically. Why should SD mention specifically who created the facepacks he used in his compilation? If LL is SOOOOOO concerned about people's hard work getting proper credit, why didn't he give proper credit to the websites where he filched photos?

Now, with that being said, I hope that LL realizes that SD NOT mentioning him specifically has given LL significantly MORE recognition than if he had actually put his name in the readme. How many people actually read the readme anyway?

Finally, this whole thing has been absolutely JUVENILE!!

Originally posted by SkyDog
I don't understand where people are getting this. I NEVER stated any opposition to giving the guy credit. In my VERY FIRST RESPONSE to him, I asked if he wanted me to put his name on it, and he *NEVER* responded to that. He just kept on attacking.

SkyDog, the dude asked you to give him credit to begin with, hence the PM and request for credit. Repeating that he never *confirmed* that he wanted you to give him credit is a little childish. Besides, it is pretty evident in his following posts, while not addressing you specifically, that modifying your "thanks" to specifically mentioning him would have resolved the whole mess. You say he kept on attacking, but you could have very EASILY stop the attacks and cleared up any misrepresentations he may have made.

LL - You aren't without blame either. As has been pointed out, you seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. You give a general credit to those whose work you stole, but want specific credit when someone steals your work. There is no question that you spent a lot of time on the photos, but if getting credit for it is your biggest concern, and not providing them to the community, don't offer them in the first place.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

You know, toward the right side of the chart you seemed to travel back in time.

That's cool.

EDIT: Damn. Too slow.

[WSUCougar]

And all that from a guy who quotes Lou Holtz.

[korme]

Hey guys, I do what I can.

[korme]

If you'll notice my respect hardly flatlined.

[SirFozzie]

So.. who's tried that new C2 drink?

Remarkably, it DOES taste a lot like real Coca-Cola

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

And all that from a guy who quotes Lou Holtz.

Sorry. I was feeling left out. I saw that I only had two posts in this thread and felt like I had to catch up. However, the whole quantity vs. quality thing keeps crossing me up. Of course, I can't manage either of them.

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Here, let me answer for him:

Because he didn't think it would be such a big, FREAKIN' deal. He was doing it in an attempt to be helpful, got blind-sided by the resultant attack, and promptly removed the oh-so-dastardly file.

Here's a sword if you'd like to fall on it.

Wow, just when I think it's over...!

SkyDog was "blind sided"? :guffaw:

I don't buy the argument that he did not think it was a big deal. SkyDog has been involved in online sports sims longer than I have and I think he has a pretty good idea of what is expected courtesy. He made a mistake and he sort of admitted to it ("my bad"). I'm not sure why you need to continue to defend that flawed line of reasoning.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

So.. who's tried that new C2 drink?

Remarkably, it DOES taste a lot like real Coca-Cola

LESS FILLING!!

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

From BOTH sides.

C'mon DD, it's not like it didn't take two to tango.

and if you're looking for a sincere apology from myself, there's one from me up a while ago. Sadly, there hasn't been one from LL calling all of us who participate at FOFC assholes.

I apologize for inferring anyone here, including the person I was originally upset with, is an "asshole". It certainly was not my intent if I did say such a thing. I do no remember the context of the accusation and I don't feel like looking it up. Just know it was not meant in that manner.

You are incorrect in stating I inferred everyone here is an ass. Those who are one already know that fact and don't need me to tell them! I like a lot of the guys here from their OOTP contributions. I like several others who I just met today just from their contributions to this thread. You aren't one of them yet SirFozzie, but you are growing on me.

[HornedFrog Purple]

If you guys keep arguing the same points over and over, I'll do the unthinkable.... and you will

LOSE

POSTS

I am much more interested in Subby and his foot fetish of Joe Gibbs.

[Bonegavel]

Bottom line: If LL's goal of making the face pack was so that people could add some spice to the game, he has failed. He could have simply posted in the OOTP thread:

LL:
NB. Part of this face pack is my work! thanks all and enjoy.

Instead, he went on some strange quixotic tirade reminiscent of the miniature Daffy Duck running up Bugs Bunny's arm, into the oyster and grabbing the pearl crying "It's mine, it's all mine. I'm a rich and happy miser!"

Have you seen all the work SkyDog has put into OOTP with his simming of seasons and posts of all the stats? I have. If you compiled all his posts into one informative document and ripped his name out, i'm sure he would post something like,

You're welcome

and drop it at that. Modders that I have worked with on various games and projects are simply happy to create and share. Credit is icing. The end result is the cake. Icing without cake is sickening. Cake by itself is moist and delicious. Icing and cake are good combo, but... Damn, forgot my point.

[edit]
P.S. Shorty, that chart was funny. Still, no t.v. tonight.

[MJ4H]

Holy crap it's a wonder anything ever gets actually DONE on this planet.

I don't even play OOTP but THANK YOU LivinLegend for your work on the face pack. And THANK YOU SkyDog for releasing the compilation of others work that makes life easier for people wanting all the different face packs. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. NOW STFU and make some more shit so we can have fun. damn.

[MikeVic]

I thought I'd leave a post in here.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

Have you seen all the work SkyDog has put into OOTP with his simming of seasons and posts of all the stats? I have. If you compiled all his posts into one informative document and ripped his name out, i'm sure he would post something like,

You're welcome

I highly doubt that.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

SkyDog, the dude asked you to give him credit to begin with, hence the PM and request for credit.

No, he didn't. He asked me to remove the his files from the compilation, and accused me of releasing it "under false pretenses", which I clearly did not do:

LivnLegend

Hall Of Famer



Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Hunters Ridge, CA Baseball Trivia Nut
Posts: 4,129

Because I wanted people to be able to use the file, I counter-offered with crediting him. I don't think he ever responded to that at all. He just kept accusing me.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I highly doubt that.

Well, as usual, you're wrong.

Actually, my first post in such a situation would be:

"Man, that is some great work. A real GENIUS must have done that. I'll bet he's good-looking, too! "

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

No, he didn't. He asked me to remove the his files from the compilation, and accused me of releasing it "under false pretenses", which I clearly did not do:





Because I wanted people to be able to use the file, I counter-offered with crediting him. I don't think he ever responded to that at all. He just kept accusing me.

So if his files are only available from one site, how could you not know his files were in your compilation? Part of your defense has always been "i didn't know whose files were in there" so this runs contrary to that.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I find it very strange that there is etiquette and manners for giving credit to someone who has used and abused other people's copyrighted work. I'm not taking sides here, but let's be honest - modding player pictures (that are someone else's work) is already borderline illegal (not making a profit from it helps). Saying SD was "bad" for not thanking someone doing borderline illegal stuff is just strange to me.

Of course, I do understand that we in this community like modders and their work, so SD should probably thank him. However, talking about "morality" and books/music hypotheticals, just doesn't make sense. This is a shady practice, but one we all like and enjoy. SD made a mistake - who here hasn't made one? He offered to correct that mistake - that seems pretty fair to me.

Get off the fucking fence before you go to Hell. Take one side or the other.

BTW, you're all assholes for reading this garbage.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Chubby

So if his files are only available from one site, how could you not know his files were in your compilation? Part of your defense has always been "i didn't know whose files were in there" so this runs contrary to that.

I didn't know whose files were in there at the time I posted it. The post that you're looking at came today. I deleted the readmes and whatnot last night once I got the file up and running.

[JAG]

Chubby, he said he got them from 9-12 different sites. No, he didn't go back and recreate where he got what from because he didn't have 1. the time or 2. didn't feel like taking the effort because he didn't think it was a big deal.

LivinLegend,

You do realize the irony that you have probably had more people thank you for your contribution in this thread than you would've had had SkyDog included your name in the compilation readme, right?

Everyone,

Thanks for the usual daily dose of FOFC humor, conveniently condensed into one thread.

[MacroGuru]

Damn Chubby,

As SkyDog has stated numerous times throughout this wonderful thread, that he forget where he pulled everything down, not recording where he got what from.

So therefore he did not know where they came from after doing everything, and deleting the stuff he no longer needed.

Plain english for those who need it.

He forgot where he got the files from.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I didn't know whose files were in there at the time I posted it. The post that you're looking at came today. I deleted the readmes and whatnot last night once I got the file up and running.

I still think a "i never intended to release them, i'm sorry I'll take them down or add you in the readme" would have been much prefered over your constant defense of wrongdoing and later "I'm taking my ball and going home" routine. You had the readmes so you knew (when you made the comilation) who made the files in the beginning along with having to download them in the 1st place.

LL could have gone about things in a better way as well but I still think he has every right to be upset.

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by Chubby

So if his files are only available from one site, how could you not know his files were in your compilation? Part of your defense has always been "i didn't know whose files were in there" so this runs contrary to that.

Not to mention he used MY readme text in his request to get help in combining the pictures on this message board. C'mon Sky, wouldn't you rather just drop this? It's dead to pretty much everyone else!

[druez]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

That's a non-issue. I've removed the entire file from the server, in case you haven't noticed. My issue is with your half-truths, mischaracterizations, and dang near flat-out lies.

Can you repost the file, I haven't had a chance to download it. Just add his name in a readme, so I can get the file please.

Thank You,

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by JAG

LivinLegend,

You do realize the irony that you have probably had more people thank you for your contribution in this thread than you would've had had SkyDog included your name in the compilation readme, right?

It's not really irony since I never really pimped the file to begin with. I made only ONE post about in OOTP Developments and I only made it available on my league web site. I did not upload it to any of the multiple mod collections in the community. I was never looking for lots of publicity or fanfare -- just due credit from someone (who at the time) I perceived as taking credit for my work. I thought I made that clear. It’s tough trying to be clear and concise to all manner of readers but I’m trying.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by JAG

Chubby, he said he got them from 9-12 different sites. No, he didn't go back and recreate where he got what from because he didn't have 1. the time or 2. didn't feel like taking the effort because he didn't think it was a big deal.

LivinLegend,

You do realize the irony that you have probably had more people thank you for your contribution in this thread than you would've had had SkyDog included your name in the compilation readme, right?

Everyone,

Thanks for the usual daily dose of FOFC humor, conveniently condensed into one thread.

And the problem is he should have when he downloaded them. I think it's both 1 and 2. I don't think Skydog intended to post them so he didn think it was nescessary, except that changed. "well I didn't think it was a big deal at the time" isn't a valid defense.

How hard is it to give credit where credit is due?

[Rich1033]

Is this the new Threadkiller? It just keeps going and going.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by druez

Can you repost the file, I haven't had a chance to download it. Just add his name in a readme, so I can get the file please.

Thank You,

I'll post it in a day or two under the heading 'VPI97's Outrageous Super-Fantastigorical Face Pack-a-palooza!!!'

Since I'm just renaming the zip file I downloaded from SkyDog, I will only be crediting him.

[Raiders Army]

Where is that link to the pic for "Arguing on the Internet is Like Winning Special Olympics"?

[Crapshoot]

Once again, I find it scary that I find myself agreeing with both Chubby and a Dodgers Fan (LL) - this arguement is making for strange bed fellows (other than Fritz of course).. .

[Chubby]

If both LL and Skydog want it to go away I suggest they both stop posting about it and it will.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Chubby

And the problem is he should have when he downloaded them.

Why don't you apply that to LivnLegend and his reluctance to credit the source of his images? He could have easily copied the URL of the sites he grabbed them from.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

I was never looking for lots of publicity or fanfare -- just due credit from someone (who at the time) I perceived as taking credit for my work.

This is the part I'm still unclear about. I'm not trying to continue a fight or anything like that. Please hear this question in the spirit of someone who is still genuinely confused about this point. I'm just trying to understand. Did you really read the following...

There are over 4,000 face shots for fictional players included in the zip file. All of your fictional players will be assigned a photo. Thanks to those who helped me figure out how to do this (Draft Dodger & Shorty3281), and to the guys who actually made these facepacks. (This is a compilation of the facepack work of 4 or 5 different people.)

..and interpret it to mean that I was trying to take credit from your work? It really is an honest question.

[Raiders Army]

Found one.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Chubby

And the problem is he should have when he downloaded them.

Another honest question: do you keep readmes and zips around after you're done with them? If I am unusual in deleting these files immediately after I use them, then perhaps that helps to further explain the misunderstanding/confusion here.

[MacroGuru]

Alright, this thread has moved from a standard bitch and moan session to being officialy gay.

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

And to be honest, I don't read the credit info in readmes.

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

This is the part I'm still unclear about. I'm not trying to continue a fight or anything like that. Please hear this question in the spirit of someone who is still genuinely confused about this point. I'm just trying to understand. Did you really read the following... ..and interpret it to mean that I was trying to take credit from your work? It really is an honest question.

That's why I added "at the time" -- I looked at your post on the OOTP message board (no mention of LL) and looked at the name of the file (YOUR name) and concluded you were taking credit for the work. It was a little rash, I admit.

I never really thought you were trying to say "I, the Dark Jedi SkyDog, did all the work contained in this file". But nearly every person who backed you in this thread would have no idea that I did 100% of the work on 40% of that file (and it was a ton of work).

[druez]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Dola:

And to be honest, I don't read the credit info in readmes.

me either, now can you repost the pack!

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

That's why I added "at the time" -- I looked at your post on the OOTP message board (no mention of LL) and looked at the name of the file (YOUR name) and concluded you were taking credit for the work. It was a little rash, I admit.

I never really thought you were trying to say "I, the Dark Jedi SkyDog, did all the work contained in this file". But nearly every person who backed you in this thread would have no idea that I did 100% of the work on 40% of that file (and it was a ton of work).

Is 100% of 40% equal to 40%, or is it equal to 140%, or is it equal to 4%?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Why don't you apply that to LivnLegend and his reluctance to credit the source of his images? He could have easily copied the URL of the sites he grabbed them from.

Did you credit Jim for making the intial files you based any of the apps you created off of?

Is it expected that when one makes a roster update for say Madden, that they must have "I thank EA for creating the intial roster file from which I made mine"?

Answer: Nope.

This all could have been nipped in the bud if skydog had just said "Look I'll add your name to the readme" AND dropped it. But as he shows here he can't do that.

[Blackadar]

This

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Dola:

And to be honest, I don't read the credit info in readmes.

Well, that seems to be a dishonest statement rather than an honest one. You posted my readme file yesterday on this message boardright here when asking for help on how to combine them.

It seems you could have given me credit because my name, OOTP name, and email address were all there on your post.

[Blackadar]

Thread

[Blackadar]

sucks.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Another honest question: do you keep readmes and zips around after you're done with them? If I am unusual in deleting these files immediately after I use them, then perhaps that helps to further explain the misunderstanding/confusion here.

I don't but as I said above this all could have been nothing hours and hours ago. And I'm stubborn.

The fact that you deleted them isn't the point of his argument. It's that you wouldn't credit him without this whole ordeal and still won't, you pulled the file instead.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Found one.

I got a cramp from laughing so hard at this!