It's Official...Tim Howard joins Man U.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Katon

Too many players? Did Chelsea sign someone I don't know about? The only winger we have who has any argument for playing ahead of Robben is Duff, and considering Duff's fragility and Ranieri's willingness to play wingers on their weaker flank I would say that Duff will actually be less of an impediment to Robben than Ryan Giggs would have been at Man U.

I agree with you that, of the Chelsea's various players, Duff, Gronkjaer and now Robben are probably the only natural wide players. I was more referring to their depth in the midfield. In the midfield overall, they still have Cole, Veron (though he's out at the moment), Lampard, Parker, Makelele, Duff, Gronkjaer, Geremi. That doesn't even count the guy they sent out on loan as soon as they bought him or Petit and Stanic since I don't know their standing on the team. Adding Robben and whoever else they decide they want in July just seems to make it tougher for him to get consistent playing time. I know Raneiri usually tinker with his lineup and will play various players in various places so I guess you never know.

[Katon]

The only person in the squad who plays any of Robben's positions well enough to keep him out of the team is Duff. I expect to see Robben either out on the flank or at the head of a midfield diamond most of the time, and Duff is the only other player who can fill those roles. I mean, Jesper Gronkjaer - who can't play in the diamond formation, can't cross a ball to save his life, and is one of the most inconsistent players in the team - has managed twenty starts and a similar number of substitute appearances already this season as Duff's backup. Robben, who is a better player and can fill in for Duff in any of his roles, will get plenty of games.

[daedalus]

I agree that Robben definitely has enough quality to start over most. I'm just afraid of seeing him stuck in a number crunch. As far as I understand the positionings and the players, I thought Cole and Veron are both capable players at the head of the midfield diamond. If I'm not mistaken, I think I've seen Cole outside in Duff's usual slot now and again. (But then again, I did see Cole came into a game to fill in at the wingback slot as well so he seems to get bounced around a lot.) Since Geremi doesn't seem as comfortable outside, I'm surprised Ranieri doesn't play Cole in the right wing slot more often.

By the way, how do you REALLY feel about Gronkjaer?

[Calis]

I've been hearing a lot lately about how Cole wants out, any truth to that you think Katon? Seems to be unhappy about his lack of playing, but I have no idea really.

Haven't got a chance to see them play this year, but was surprised by hearing all this. I thought Cole was one of the hot young prospects, is he not doing so hot this year?

[Calis]

Dola.

Bah! Just had to come here and vent. Celtic just drew Barcelona in the next round of the UEFA Cup.

Not our lucky day.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Calis

Dola.

Bah! Just had to come here and vent. Celtic just drew Barcelona in the next round of the UEFA Cup.

Not our lucky day.

Got to beat them all to win it all!

[MIJB#19]

Hmm, Gronkjaer never addapted to the level of Chelsea?
That defends my little concern over Robben's adeptability to the higher level, Gronkjaer was not bad at Ajax (though not as good as Robben) and of course played in a different system (Ajax = Dutch school; PSV = 4-4-2).
Though Gronkjaer is not a left legged left winger, right?

[Katon]

I don't dislike Gronkjaer as much as those comments would indicate. He's the most frustrating player on the team, but considering how much he had to do with our win in last year's last-day showdown against Liverpool, it's hard to really hate the guy. Gronkjaer is a right-footed left winger. His main problems, as far as I can tell, are a complete inability to cross (nine times out of ten his final ball winds up in the crowd) and being a confidence player (misses a few crosses, gets depressed, and suddenly can't even control the ball). When he's crossing the ball well and feeling confident, he's actually quite a good player. It's just that that happens maybe half a dozen times per season.

To answer various Joe Cole comments: Cole's biggest difficulty is that Frank Lampard is busy being one of the best midfielders in the league in Cole's preferred slot and so he hasn't had a sustained run of games at his best position, and of course he isn't good enough away from his best position to earn regular play. Robben will cut Cole's opportunities on the flanks, but that isn't his favorite position anyway and he wasn't doing much with those opportunities

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by Calis

Dola.

Bah! Just had to come here and vent. Celtic just drew Barcelona in the next round of the UEFA Cup.

Not our lucky day.

Yea I noticed that too, but you never know what could happen.

[daedalus]

Katon . . . Speaking of Cole being blocked by Lampard, how will Parker fare at Chelsea? Doesn't he play the same position as Lampard and Cole?

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Katon

I don't dislike Gronkjaer as much as those comments would indicate. He's the most frustrating player on the team, but considering how much he had to do with our win in last year's last-day showdown against Liverpool, it's hard to really hate the guy. Gronkjaer is a right-footed left winger. His main problems, as far as I can tell, are a complete inability to cross (nine times out of ten his final ball winds up in the crowd) and being a confidence player (misses a few crosses, gets depressed, and suddenly can't even control the ball). When he's crossing the ball well and feeling confident, he's actually quite a good player. It's just that that happens maybe half a dozen times per season.

Wow, sounds worse then in his Ajax days, when crossing was the #1 and #2 task. Still, I think he never was the right guy playing the right position there. Or he was just unlucky being part of the worst Ajax team since the 1960's and was one of many in-between players.

[3ric]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Katon . . . Speaking of Cole being blocked by Lampard, how will Parker fare at Chelsea? Doesn't he play the same position as Lampard and Cole?

Parker should compete mainly with Makelele for playing time, I think. I could be wrong, though.

[Katon]

I think Parker's main function is going to be as a defensive midfielder who can also contribute going forward (which isn't part of Makelele's game). My read of the situation is that he was originally marked to replace Manu Petit when he left in the summer and we moved the schedule forward six months because of a minor injury crisis.

[MIJB#19]

And then, Arjen Robben went out with an injury for the fourth time this season.
This time sidelining him for a month, or maybe two and needing one to get back to form.

[Calis]

Sheesh, someone making Man Utd stop playing. It's becoming painful to watch.

Can't believe they just got mauled by City.

[Tekneek]

Manchester City!

What a wonderful result during a horrible season.

[Mac Howard]

>Can't believe they just got mauled by City.

They didn't so much get mauled by City as self destructed, aided by a malicious supernatural being that denied all their efforts during the first 45 minutes and then, as often before this season, sent a totally different team out after half time that only LOOKED like they were the same players

I'm feeling particularly vulnerable this morning as yesterday my other team, the Perth Glory, were beaten 4-2 by a team that scored 3 goals from ouside of 30 yards. At times it seemed as if the opposition only had to toe-poke the ball forwards for it to fly like a rocket into the top corner of the goal.

Going to bed for a week

[Tekneek]

There are simply too many Manchester United fans on this planet.

[bhlloy]

Anyone else willing to bet Ferguson is gone at the end of the year if they don't beat Arsenal in the cup?

This year United are really starting to struggle from what quite honestly are his questionable moves: what would you give Mac to have someone like Stam at center back after watching Silvestre today? Spending the Beckham money on Saha instead of a center back is looking like a better and better move all the time....

[Mac Howard]

I still can't believe that Alex didn't buy a CB this January. It didn't have to be a world class player - a competent CB would have done to cover for the rest of the season and as a backup next. The Premiership is full of such players.

I'm very pleased with Saha. I don't see that as a bad buy. You can't win the CL with only one striker and that's all Utd have currently without Saha.

Utd could afford both but I suspect the PLC status is beginning to bite.

My rating is very appropriate this morning (just in case anyone still wondered what it meant
.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

I still can't believe that Alex didn't buy a CB this January. It didn't have to be a world class player - a competent CB would have done to cover for the rest of the season and as a backup next. The Premiership is full of such players.

Pascal Cygan!@!$$%

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

I'm very pleased with Saha. I don't see that as a bad buy. You can't win the CL with only one striker and that's all Utd have currently without Saha.

But how do you REALLY feel about Diego Forlan?

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

Utd could afford both but I suspect the PLC status is beginning to bite.

I wonder if it's more the PLC status or if it's Ferguson's problems with the M&M boys that prevented further spending. I think the combined purchase of Cristiano Ronaldo, Saha and Kleberson probably did used up most, if not all of, the Beckham money (and possibly whatever funds he had for the year). If I remember correctly, Djemba-Djemba and Bellion were fairly "cheap".

I don't know that I really think Ferguson will really go anywhere or that United will really implode, regardless of how low they sink this season. Ferguson should have a high enough reputation to warrant him a stay of execution and next season he'll be removed from the M&M controversy and actually have an Assistant Manager for the entire season. Also, they'll have Ferdinand back in the lineup and, hopefully, O'Shea back to form (out of curiosity, is he a better centreback or fullback?). Plus, Van Nistelrooij and Saha for a whole season is dangerous. (If I recall correctly, they also signed a midfielder on a contract during the whole Saha saga so he might help as well.) I still think they're a player, if not THE player (along with the team on the side of all that is good, the Gunners, of course) in the premiership. At least, I think, until Chelsea can settle on a lineup and let it gel . . . then they'll be scary. REALLY scary.

[Mac Howard]

>But how do you REALLY feel about Diego Forlan?

Proof that scouts do not produce accurate assessments of a player's skills as some computer games would have you believe

>I think the combined purchase of Cristiano Ronaldo, Saha and Kleberson probably did used up most, if not all of, the Beckham money (and possibly whatever funds he had for the year).

But we're the "biggest club in the world". We don't rely on selling players to pay for our purchases

>If I remember correctly, Djemba-Djemba and Bellion were fairly "cheap".

There was a reason for this.

>Ferguson should have a high enough reputation to warrant him a stay of execution

His reputation is rapidly becoming tarnished but I guess he'll get another year. Did M&M know something we don't know when they insisted he was put on a rolling one year contract?

>Also, they'll have Ferdinand back in the lineup

Not until November if the FA refuse to reduce the ban.

>out of curiosity, is he (O'Shea) a better centreback or fullback?

Fullback for me. He can be quite effective overlapping.

>I still think they're a player, if not THE player (along with the team on the side of all that is good, the Gunners, of course) in the premiership.

It's now about confidence as much as squad quality. But I would like to see a dominating DM to backup/replace Keane, another CB and possibly a winger to backup Giggs and Ronaldo (if he doesn't have the second season form loss - a la O'Shea - I think he will be a significant Premiership player next year). The squad lacks depth.

>At least, I think, until Chelsea can settle on a lineup and let it gel . . . then they'll be scary. REALLY scary.

I read yesterday that Abramovic was selling his oil interests in Russia and was to make 500 million available to Ranieri. Sincerely hope not.

Alex needs to use the rest of this season to fully check out DjDj as DM, Kleberson as CM and Bellion as wide midfielder. He needs to know much more about these guys before deciding on what he needs to bring in the coming off-season. But he needs to be careful. Although he can forget trophies this season he still needs to come up with automatic qualification for the Champions League - that's far from certain with performances like yesterday's.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

I still can't believe that Alex didn't buy a CB this January. It didn't have to be a world class player - a competent CB would have done to cover for the rest of the season and as a backup next. The Premiership is full of such players.

I'm very pleased with Saha. I don't see that as a bad buy. You can't win the CL with only one striker and that's all Utd have currently without Saha.

Utd could afford both but I suspect the PLC status is beginning to bite.

My rating is very appropriate this morning (just in case anyone still wondered what it meant
.

The thing is, I doubt Boro could have turned down something like 3-5 million quid for Southgate- and damn, old he may be- but he sure as hell has to be better than what's out there. The shame for me is not O'Shea, who looked great last season but more down to earth now, but rather Brown- he's gone from looking like a great player pre-injury worries, to a poor man's Phil Neville (the old Phil at least )- someone who couldn't walk into half the premiership sides but has the "Man u" glow around him. Then again, I still think that the Veron-Stam swap was quite possibly Fergie's biggest mistake.

[Mac Howard]

Southgate would have been fine. Silvestre is a proactive player and needs a calmer, more experienced, reactive player alongside him. Southgate would have been fine and good for at least another year as backup.

Veron is a world class player but couldn't perform his stuff at the pace of the Premiership. I don't criticise Ferguson for believing that Veron would fit in at Utd. He couldn't know how he would perform at Premiership pace - neither Serie A nor international soccer, where veron is supreme, plays at this pace. It proved to be a mistake but not one that could have been predicted. My main complaint would be the time it took Alex to admit it was a mistake. Alex often mistakes stubborness for strength.

Stam? He was found guilty of taking drugs. Considering Rio's 8 month punishment for missing a test, Stam could have been give two life sentences for failing the test had he played for Utd

[Crapshoot]

While we're at it Mac- Im curious if you share my assesment of Brown. He looks like a mere shadow of the player I remember back in the treble season- and generally, seems to make more mistakes and seems less instinctive. I guess he's exposed more now that he's not playing alongside a Stam/Ferdinand ?

As for Veron- hell, I like the guy- but Ferguson's decision making doesnt always make sense to me. He seems to be taking the anti- Real Madrid approach- he's buying mediocrities or decent players at filler prices instead of stars, when it seems the other approach is more yielding. One would hope that the Kieran Richardsons, Darren Fletchers, Danny Pughs and co of Man U can at least provide solid support- the cash spent of Djemba-Djemba, Bellion (with the tribunal) and Kleberson (about10 million by my account) could have been used to purchase a Kevin Hoftland, or a Mark Van Bommel- a combative central midfielder or a central defender.

[Mac Howard]

I think Brown was very unlucky. He's been out for around 9 months and obviously wasn't fully fit when he had to take over from Rio Ferdinand. At the same time, Alex brought in Saha and returned to a 4-4-2 so the defence didn't have the dual defensive midfielders protecting central defence. When the defence started to fail then Brown took the flak for it. He needed to come back into the game with the pressure off him. As it is I think his confidence is shot.

Just what's happening at Utd on the transfer front is beyond us all. Is Alex getting old? Did the board put greater limitations on his spending power than we know? Is the PLC status making finances so much important than the football?

Utd seemed to get caught up during the summer on signing Ronaldinho and when that fell through they seemed to lose the plot. I think they were convinced they were going to get him and the others were either supplementary to that signing or compensation for missing it. I don't think they were ever intended to be Alex's major signings.

Howard and Ronaldo have come good but the others so far have done nothing to justify their signing. I'd like to see them given a chance to show what they're worth in the remainder of the season.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Aadik

The thing is, I doubt Boro could have turned down something like 3-5 million quid for Southgate- and damn, old he may be- but he sure as hell has to be better than what's out there. The shame for me is not O'Shea, who looked great last season but more down to earth now, but rather Brown- he's gone from looking like a great player pre-injury worries, to a poor man's Phil Neville (the old Phil at least )- someone who couldn't walk into half the premiership sides but has the "Man u" glow around him. Then again, I still think that the Veron-Stam swap was quite possibly Fergie's biggest mistake.

No, stay away from Southgate! I would much rather he stay on my Boro then go to Man U.

CR

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, stay away from Southgate! I would much rather he stay on my Boro then go to Man U.

CR

Com'on. We let you have McClaren

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

Com'on. We let you have McClaren

He then went and looted your youth system for Greening and Wilson, too.

Bah! You guys were never going to use them!

CR

[daedalus]

Here is a link to footage of a Dennis Bergkamp goal that someone posted the link to on BigSoccer. Roar! It's 10 megabytes, though, so be warned. But, dang, it's worth it. Now I just have to look for the Newcastle one.

Also, the Good Guys from Highbury will be taking on Katon's evil Chelsea tomorrow. It's on ESPN2 at 11:30 if anybody is interested and near a television at the time. Or at least could find a semi-legitimate excuse to get to a nearby sportsbar.

[daedalus]

In the first half, Arsenal threaten a couple of times but Chelsea looked better in my opinion (damn them!). They put together more interesting attacks more often and more consistently (curse them!). The pitch seemed a bit slippery with people losing their feet all over the place (damn it!). More calls and non-calls went Arsenal's way than should have been, in my opinion (shhhhhhh).

[daedalus]

Damn him all to Hell! Flippin' Einar Gudjohnsen used to kicked my arse all over the place in CM and now he just scored. Good efforts, though. He chased down and blocked Lehmann's clearance and just knocked the ball into the empty net. I hope Lauren bought a ticket since he had a really good view of the play.

Chelsea is completely kicking our ass in the 2nd half. Actually, they sort of have been since about the 15 minutes mark. Bastards.

Yay! Go Bob! Robert Pires answered that with a header off of Ashley Cole's cross. Odd goal for two reasons: for a change Pires was not marked by a damn good defense and you just don't see goals in the air for Arsenal all that much. But, yay! Away goal and we drew level!

[daedalus]

Oh . . . goody. A badass forward in Mutu leaves the game and do we get any relieve? No, we get to deal with Hernan Crespo now. Ugh. Joe Cole also came in for Scott Parker.

I was wondering why Gilberto came in for Dennis and how we were going to handle that. Wenger sent Reyes in for Freddie a few minutes later. I think that means Gilberto moves down to Freddie's right midfield slot - where he's been playing of late for some odd reason - and Reyes moves into Dennis' forward slot.

[daedalus]

Heh. Desailly was goofing around when Lehmann was trying to throw the ball forward and slapped the ball out of his hand . . . got a yellow out of that. A few minutes later, Vieira had pretty much a breakaway on a nice through ball and he had to take a chance on the ball. Ended up taking Vieira out and got his second yellow.

As an aside, Paddy Vieira complains a bit much. Especially given how the calls and non-calls have gone our way more than Chelsea's.

[daedalus]

It ended a 1-1 draw. Happily, Arsenal got an away goal in the game. Hopefully, we just go ahead and win the second leg at Highbury without all this suspense. Sadly, I just don't think that's an easy task. I think Chelsea will be fine defensively without Desailly, though, with Terry and Gallas on hand with Melchiot there. Their offense seems to be coming together as well.

[Katon]

I hate Arsenal. Our best performance of the season, and we still can't beat them. On the plus side, if we can repeat that at Highbury (not a given by any means), then given how tired Arsenal will be we ought to have a very good shot at going through.

[daedalus]

Don't hate the Gunners, hate the game.

I thought Chelsea looked good today. I think they'll be crazy scary next season (barring implosion through unhappiness over playing time).

With Cech and Robben coming in, who do you forsee leaving this summer? Will Forsell being staying or going?

[Mac Howard]

>I think they'll be crazy scary next season

I guess it depends on who's the manager. Doesn't look at the moment that it will be Ranieri - unless he wins the second leg and goes all the way

Good game to watch though.

[fhasumi]

Is it too late for the obligitory This will revolutionalize the way people don't watch soccer. post?

If not, DIBS!

[Calis]

2nd leg of Celtic vs. Barca on FSW today!

Can't wait, even took the day off work in preparation.

[3ric]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Here is a link to footage of a Dennis Bergkamp goal that someone posted the link to on BigSoccer. Roar! It's 10 megabytes, though, so be warned. But, dang, it's worth it. Now I just have to look for the Newcastle one.

The Newcastle goal, is that the one where he hit a backheel on one side of Nikos Dabisaz (sp?), ran on the other side and beat the keeper with the wrong foot? I have a clip somewhere of that goal, I think - I'm going to se if I can find it...

[Katon]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Don't hate the Gunners, hate the game.

I thought Chelsea looked good today. I think they'll be crazy scary next season (barring implosion through unhappiness over playing time).

With Cech and Robben coming in, who do you forsee leaving this summer? Will Forsell being staying or going?

Well, if Ranieri goes, then all bets are off, since the new guy will want his own players. If Ranieri stays, though, then the only weaknesses that've shown up in our current squad are the massive dropoffs when Cudicini and Duff get hurt and the lack of a right winger. Cech and Robben are obviously meant to solve the first two problems, so the only spot left is the right wing. We might sign someone to play there (beat Madrid to Joaquin, please!) or we might play Duff on the right - where he's looked dangerous sometimes this season - and Robben on the left. Off the top of my head, the only important squad members whose contracts expire in the summer are Hasslebaink and Melchiot; Forsell is the obvious (and vastly superior) replacement for Jimmy, and I have absolutely no idea who Ranieri would bring in as a right-back.

[daedalus]

Yeah, I agree that if that likely managerial change occurs then it changes the situation.

On the other hand, except for the people leaving, these guys will have had a year to play together and get used to each other and most of them are just darn good players (as oppose to players who are good for certain systems) so they should be able to fit in with whatever scheme comes in. Isn't the guy Queiroz replaced at Real Madrid still available? He may make a good fit since he's already used to handling superstars.

I don't know that I would put Robben on the left and move Duff to the right. Duff seems the type that likes playing wide then sending in crosses where Robben seems to enjoy cutting in and attacking (for a comparison, maybe Freddie Ljungberg?). Robben may make a better candidate to convert to the right side. I thought they had the kid that they paid a lot for for right-back? In any case, I still think they'd be better off retaining Melchiot. He seems like a good player to me. Forsell would make a good replacement for Hasslebaink if he would stay happy being one of four strikers in the rotation. I think he's already made some noises about wanting out unless he's going to get major minute. What about that Russian (?) midfielder they have on loan? Is he an option for right-wing?

Regardless, if they make a good choice on Rineiri's replacement or have the sense to give him another chance, I still think Chelsea will be a major player in both Europe and League.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by 3ric

The Newcastle goal, is that the one where he hit a backheel on one side of Nikos Dabisaz (sp?), ran on the other side and beat the keeper with the wrong foot? I have a clip somewhere of that goal, I think - I'm going to se if I can find it...

Yeah, that's the one. If you have it, I'd love to see it.

[3ric]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Yeah, that's the one. If you have it, I'd love to see it.

You have a PM.

[rufusjonz]

3 Americans on the pitch today Fulham vs Man City

Reyna, Bocanegra, McBride

wooot go USA!

[Crapshoot]

I think Ranieri is about as likely to manage Chelsea next season as I am....

[Mac Howard]

Just 2 hours to the kickoff of the EPL match of the season. It looks as if Howard will be rested - only hope that both managers don't decide that next week's semi-final is more inportant than this relatively meaningless league game and rest a number of players.

Still, the beer's in, the lads will soon be on their way over and I even have the Bolton - Newcastle game to warm up with. Hope you guys get to see it

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

Just 2 hours to the kickoff of the EPL match of the season. It looks as if Howard will be rested - only hope that both managers don't decide that next week's semi-final is more inportant than this relatively meaningless league game and rest a number of players.

Still, the beer's in, the lads will soon be on their way over and I even have the Bolton - Newcastle game to warm up with. Hope you guys get to see it

Mac, didnt you hear ? He's been given a 3 game "rest" by Fergie...

[daedalus]

Hi. I heart 3ric. That is all. Thank you.

And thank you, 3ric!