College Football Week 15 (Championship) thread........

[GrantDawg]

Sorry, Texas.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Anyone think that if Texas beats Ohio State handily and Oklahoma beats Florida that the AP will vote Texas their champion?

I know if I had a vote, I would. Assuming Oklahoma doesn't just absolutely smoke Florida (which is what I assume you mean).

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by digamma

Coaches' ballots are public in the final coaches' poll: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/graph...2008/flash.htm

Fascinating. I think these should be published so maybe people will realize allowing coaches to vote is absurd.

Ty Willingham voted Missouri No. 11. I love my Tigers but even I wouldn't have voted them No. 11. Heck, Pinkle only voted his own team No. 18. Interesting, Pinkle voted Utah and Boise State lower than any other coach (by about five slots) and left Ball State off his ballot -- seems odd for a former MAC coach. Honestly, from looking at his ballot, I have no faith in Gary Pinkle voting in the poll. Of course, I think Rick Leach is a worse voter.

[Carman Bulldog]

Can anyone explain why Texas and Alabama could not be matched up in one of the games?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Can anyone explain why Texas and Alabama could not be matched up in one of the games?

Since the Fiesta Bowl has ties to the Big 12 and the Sugar to the SEC...since they lost their championship teams to the title game they had first pick and took Alabama and Texas respectively.

[Young Drachma]

This whole thing is a sham.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Anyone think that if Texas beats Ohio State handily and Oklahoma beats Florida that the AP will vote Texas their champion?

If they were playing one of the plethora of other 1 loss teams, particularly Alabama, they might have a chance. Instead, with that neutered matchup, no chance.

SI

[RainMaker]

So what's the point of the BCS rankings outside of 1 and 2? Texas Tech and Boise State are both higher than Ohio State but don't get in. The system is a pathetic joke.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So what's the point of the BCS rankings outside of 1 and 2? Texas Tech and Boise State are both higher than Ohio State but don't get in. The system is a pathetic joke.

No, they'll surely tell us that the past few weeks were the most amazing in the history of sports.

[Dr. Sak]

I think Utah is in for a world of hurtin.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So what's the point of the BCS rankings outside of 1 and 2?

There is no point.

The purpose of the BCS rankings is to pick two teams to play in a national championship game. The fans have artificially injected their belief that the highest ranked teams should automatically fill the remaining slots.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

No, they'll surely tell us that the past few weeks were the most amazing in the history of sports.

None of it matters though. It's just what teams travel best. Why bother having a ranking system in the first place?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

There is no point.

The purpose of the BCS rankings is to pick two teams to play in a national championship game.

Umm ... doesn't it also establish the eligible pool of teams for the other BCS bowls?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

There is no point.

The purpose of the BCS rankings is to pick two teams to play in a national championship game. The fans have artificially injected their belief that the highest ranked teams should automatically fill the remaining slots.

God forbid college football implement a system that has the season mean anything.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

God forbid college football implement a system that has the season mean anything.

When you have 2 undefeated smaller conference teams and 7 identical 1-loss teams and we arbitrarily picked 2 of those 9, well, face it- the season doesn't mean crap.

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

When you have 2 undefeated smaller conference teams and 7 identical 1-loss teams and we arbitrarily picked 2 of those 9, well, face it- the season doesn't mean crap.

SI

That's why I say throw out the stupid BCS. Quit treating us like fools. Just let all the bowls send out invites and let the teams decide which ones they take. That way they can put Notre Dame or whoever ever else they thing will bring in good ratings in the big games instead of toying around with teams that don't travel well or have big national audiences.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's why I say throw out the stupid BCS. Quit treating us like fools. Just let all the bowls send out invites and let the teams decide which ones they take. That way they can put Notre Dame or whoever ever else they thing will bring in good ratings in the big games instead of toying around with teams that don't travel well or have big national audiences.

You mean, the old way? Before the "Bowl Alliance" and her evil cousins?

[sterlingice]

Another thing that's fun this year is to again pretend that this is a neutral field when the SEC team travels 300 miles and another team travels 1500. Kindof like last year where LSU got to play the national title game in their backyard.

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

You mean, the old way? Before the "Bowl Alliance" and her evil cousins?

Yeah, at least that way they weren't insulting our intelligence for why teams made certain bowls. This is about money, nothing more. So just be more up front about it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Did you know (or realize) that anyone too young to have a driver's license has not known a non-Coalition/Alliance/BCS scenario? Coalition started in 1992.

[sterlingice]

How about a look at where those 9 identical teams get to play bowl games?
BCS Champ: Oklahoma vs Florida
Rose Bowl: USC vs Penn St
Sugar Bowl: Utah vs Alabama
Cotton Bowl: Texas Tech vs #25 Ole Miss
Fiesta Bowl: Texas vs #10 Ohio St
Poinsettia Bowl: Boise St vs #11 TCU

Poor Tech- that reminds me of Mizzou last year where they got hosed out of the Orange Bowl and blasted an "eh" Arkansas team. It also would have been interesting if Florida won close and Texas crushed Alabama.

SI

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Did you know (or realize) that anyone too young to have a driver's license has not known a non-Coalition/Alliance/BCS scenario? Coalition started in 1992.

yy. This has been status quo for a good while.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

How about a look at where those 9 identical teams get to play bowl games?
Sugar Bowl: Utah vs AlabamaSI

This is why I haven't changed my sig in a year, nor plan to anytime soon.

Missouri loses its conference championship as the #1 ranked team in the nation and loses out on a BCS bowl entirely to the team that couldn't even defeat them heads-up for the division title just a week or two previously.

Alabama loses its conference championship as #1, it's cool - they still get to go to a BCS Bowl.

Fucking dipshits.

[MJ4H]

I can't believe there are people that support this or the old system. It honestly blows me away.

[CU Tiger]

Sugar Bowl and Orange Bowl have to be real happy...

I would throw the Cotton in there, but given Ole Miss' win over Florida that should add some spice.

The other two have snoozers...and watch out for those rabid Cincy fans....then again I must admit their BB following is nice, and I have no knowledge of their FB following may be highly under rated.

Non BCS, but Clemson v Nebraska in the Gator with a 1981 National Championship Orange Bowl rematch is cute.

[DeToxRox]

Yawn. Everyone bitches about the BCS but if you don't like it, don't watch.

I am sure if year in and year out the ratings suffered then people would take notice, but every year the BCS is making people money hand over fist.

The problem is at the end of the day people love college football, and will watch it regardless.

The only other option is disband all the conferences because as long as the big six exist, no one will be happy.

Even an 8 team playoff last year would've left Mizzou out because the big 6 are going to get their automatic tie in, and this year, Boise would still be on the outside looking in.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

This is why I haven't changed my sig in a year, nor plan to anytime soon.

Missouri loses its conference championship as the #1 ranked team in the nation and loses out on a BCS bowl entirely to the team that couldn't even defeat them heads-up for the division title just a week or two previously.

Alabama loses its conference championship as #1, it's cool - they still get to go to a BCS Bowl.

Fucking dipshits.

Well, of course, the only reason that happens is because "Alabama" is a known name in college football whereas Missouri wasn't (and still isn't) that big compared to other schools in its conference.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

This is why I haven't changed my sig in a year, nor plan to anytime soon.

Missouri loses its conference championship as the #1 ranked team in the nation and loses out on a BCS bowl entirely to the team that couldn't even defeat them heads-up for the division title just a week or two previously.

Alabama loses its conference championship as #1, it's cool - they still get to go to a BCS Bowl.

Fucking dipshits.

It's not based on what happens on the field, just how well your alumni travels. If you want to be in the big games, you need to spend your money on building a strong alumni.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, of course, the only reason that happens is because "Alabama" is a known name in college football whereas Missouri wasn't (and still isn't) that big compared to other schools in its conference.

Of course the fact that Alabama was undefeated before the SEC Championship game and Missouri lost twice to the same team (the second time in a blowout) has nothing to do with it.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Of course the fact that Alabama was undefeated before the SEC Championship game and Missouri lost twice to the same team (the second time in a blowout) has nothing to do with it.

Quit bringing up reality!

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I can't believe there are people that support this or the old system. It honestly blows me away.

Because maybe it's not that big of a deal? Is it so important that we must extend the season by three weeks, increase the risk of injuries and endure more fanatic hype just so some people can be content of a mythical champion through a playoffs? It's nice to reward some teams with a bowl game but even that loses its prestige when there are way too many bowl games and way too many mediocre teams playing in them. In the NFL, it means something to win your division or be the best runner-ups. In college, it's about not finishing last. Right now, we know all of the conference champions and that means something. No good reason to go beyond that.

[timmynausea]

In Buc's day they only played 9 games. Players played both ways and it was uphill on both offense and defense. I'm not going to get into all of this forward pass business.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

In Buc's day they only played 9 games. Players played both ways and it was uphill on both offense and defense. I'm not going to get into all of this forward pass business.

Lol. Don't forget that the field was always a snowy mess.

[MJ4H]

Wow. No big deal. I'm speechless.

[cartman]

Thirteen thousands of a point.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Wow. No big deal. I'm speechless.

Why? He's right.

In the end, the BCS, old system, or playoffs isn't going to really tell us who is the best team (for example, I still believe the 2007-8 Patriots were the best team even though they lost in the Superbowl, and I am FAR from a Patriots fan).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Because maybe it's not that big of a deal? Is it so important that we must extend the season by three weeks, increase the risk of injuries and endure more fanatic hype just so some people can be content of a mythical champion through a playoffs?

Oh, c'mon. If it is decided on the field, it's no longer a "mythical" champion. Is the World Series Champ a mythical champion because the best record over 162 games doesn't guarantee you anything in the playoffs?

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

So, just for laughs, let's climb into the way back machine & see what we might have gotten before the BCS, before the Coalition, before the Alliance.
Using 1991 as the basis, listing the teams from then & projecting to 2008
I'll use the AP rankings (final for '91, current for '08)

Feel free to come up with your own version, I'm just working these out based on existing tie-ins at the time, dealing with conference changes as best I can, looking at selection history with regard to bowl tendencies, etc.

* Rose Bowl: #2 Washington 34, #4 Michigan 14
#5 USC vs #6 Penn State (Pac 10 Champ vs Big 10 Champ)

* Sugar Bowl: #18 Notre Dame 39, #3 Florida 28
#1 Florida vs #10 Ohio State

* Gator Bowl: #20 Oklahoma 48, #19 Virginia 14
#16 Georgia vs Florida State

* Cotton Bowl: #5 Florida State 10, #9 Texas A&M 2
#3 Texas vs #4 Alabama

* Fiesta Bowl: #6 Penn State 42, #10 Tennessee 17
#7 Utah vs #8 Texas Tech

* Florida Citrus Bowl: #14 California 37, #13 Clemson 13
#21 Virginia Tech vs #19 Michigan State

* Orange Bowl: #1 Miami 22, #11 Nebraska 0
#2 Oklahoma vs #12 Cincinnati

* Hall of Fame Bowl: #16 Syracuse 24, #25 Ohio State 17
#22 Northwestern vs #25 Missouri

* John Hancock Bowl: #22 UCLA 6, Illinois 3
#24 Oregon State vs Nebraska

* Copper Bowl: Indiana 24, Baylor 0
Cal vs Tulsa

* Holiday Bowl: BYU 13, Iowa 13
#9 Boise State vs Iowa

* Freedom Bowl: #22 Tulsa 28, San Diego St. 17
#11 TCU vs #15 Oregon

* Peach Bowl: #12 East Carolina 37, #21 N.C. State 34
#14 Georgia Tech vs #18 Pittsburgh

* Blockbuster Bowl: #8 Alabama 30, #15 Colorado 25
#13 Oklahoma State vs #20 Ole Miss

* Liberty Bowl: Air Force 38, Mississippi St. 15
Navy vs East Carolina

* Aloha Bowl: Georgia Tech 18, #17 Stanford 17
#17 BYU vs Boston College

* Independence Bowl: #24 Georgia 24, Arkansas 15
West Virginia vs Rice

* California Bowl: Bowling Green 28, Fresno St. 21
Fresno State vs Buffalo

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Oh, c'mon. If it is decided on the field, it's no longer a "mythical" champion. Is the World Series Champ a mythical champion because the best record over 162 games doesn't guarantee you anything in the playoffs?

SI

Because there are too many apples and oranges in college football. Take this season where you have something like 7 teams, nearly all identical. With exception of a couple games, there are no common comparisons, nor can you compare something more macro like a division or conference.

Let's rearrange some of the key games this season and put them into a playoffs. OU is out in the first round, losing to Texas. Nevermind that OU could probably beat every other team in the playoffs but they won't get that chance in an elimination tournament. Then fans would start playing the 'what ifs' games all over again - just like we do now. (No fair comparing to March Madness where you can play 35+ games and 4-games per week, plus an RPI.)

I also view collegiate sports differently from pro sports. Let the fun of Rivalry Week or Homecoming or even the Conference Championship games (in some cases) be the most important things. Otherwise, just stop that charade and make them professional leagues.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I also view collegiate sports differently from pro sports. Let the fun of Rivalry Week or Homecoming or even the Conference Championship games (in some cases) be the most important things. Otherwise, just stop that charade and make them professional leagues.

I know we've been over this a thousand times, but what other college sport, besides Div. 1A/FBS does it this way. None. Zero. Nada. So the collegiate sports argument doesn't fly when every other level of NCAA football, as well as every other NCAA team sport has a playoff.

[molson]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I can't believe there are people that support this or the old system. It honestly blows me away.

I kind of like the chaos, the uncertainty, and especially people freaking out message boards every year.

That 16-team template just seems sterile and boring and like every other sport to me. College football is unique.

Fairness is overrated to me, in terms of entertainment.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by cartman

I know we've been over this a thousand times, but what other college sport, besides Div. 1A/FBS does it this way. None. Zero. Nada. So the collegiate sports argument doesn't fly when every other level of NCAA football, as well as every other NCAA team sport has a playoff.

That's said a lot, but I think the only really direct comparison is lacrosse and possibly field hockey (I'm not as familiar with field hockey). The other team sports play many more games for a more solid regular season schedule, can and do play multiple games in a week both during the regular season and the playoffs, and that's built into the tournaments. Everyone's familiar with March Madness, and the NCAA baseball regionals have some teams possibly playing 3 games in one day (if I remember right). In lacrosse, the national champion (Syracuse) finished 16-2... assuming only an 8 team playoff, if Oklahoma were to run the table and win it all, they'd finish 15-1; so close.

That said, the most recent lacrosse tournament (Div I) had 16 teams... but that was only doable by the championship being two days after the semifinals. (First Round: May 10/11, Quarters May 17/18, Semis May 24, Finals May 26). Can we really picture Oklahoma-Alabama at 4pm on Saturday, Florida-Georgia Tech at 8:30pm on Saturday, and the winners facing off on Monday night?

I think football is it's own beast. I'm not arguing that a FCS, Div II, or Div III solution isn't possible, but the comparison with other NCAA team sports is something of a misnomer.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Of course the fact that Alabama was undefeated before the SEC Championship game and Missouri lost twice to the same team (the second time in a blowout) has nothing to do with it.

I'm not bitching that Missouri got denied a BCS berth.

I'm bitching that they GAVE IT TO FUCKING KANSAS.

Who had JUST FUCKING LOST TO MISSOURI FOR THE DIVISION.

You can say that Missouri didn't deserve a BCS berth because they lost to OU twice, the second time in a blowout, but Kansas couldn't get past Missouri to even FACE OU, so where does that say that THEY deserved the BCS nod over Missouri? Because they weren't good enough to get the chance to lose a second game?

[Buccaneer]

but the comparison with other NCAA team sports is something of a misnomer.

Especially, as you mentioned, in basketball, you have 30+ games to get a good ranking (RPI), plus a conference tournament that solidifies it even more. In baseball, there is a round-robin elimination tournament. In football, there will be many feel that "their" school was robbed or that it lost based on a fluke/bad call - just like we have now. Some people feel that it all should be subjective (since not everyone can play everyone else). Some feel that you match the best two teams after 13 games (which a playoffs will unlikely do). Some feel that you have to play even more games (just an extension of what we've had in the past 2-3 weeks). Not one system is going to be perfect and since it is collegiate sports, at least we can feel that it should not be a professional league.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Why? He's right.

In the end, the BCS, old system, or playoffs isn't going to really tell us who is the best team (for example, I still believe the 2007-8 Patriots were the best team even though they lost in the Superbowl, and I am FAR from a Patriots fan).

No, he's not. It's a huge deal.

And I'm not interested in someone or something telling me who the best team is. I'm interested in determining a champion as fairly as possible. Those are not the same thing. And I happen to think the best and most fair way to determine a football champion is by playing football games, not math and voting. I really can't believe this is even a discussion.

[ISiddiqui]

It's really not a huge deal. And "fairness" of determining a champion is overrated... as molson pointed out, it's about entertainment in the end.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

No, he's not. It's a huge deal.

And I'm not interested in someone or something telling me who the best team is. I'm interested in determining a champion as fairly as possible. Those are not the same thing. And I happen to think the best and most fair way to determine a football champion is by playing football games, not math and voting. I really can't believe this is even a discussion.

They have been playing football games. 12-13 games to be exact. After all of that, we have 11 conference champions, using as close as a fair system as can be possible (in determining the conference champions). What now? Something arbitrary? Something subjective? Something objective?

No, it is not a big deal. Just because you cannot possibly imagine other possibilities or that perhaps wrapping up your emotions up into college sports is basically [nevermind]. Others can have this discussion, so go back to being speechless.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It's really not a huge deal. And "fairness" of determining a champion is overrated... as molson pointed out, it's about entertainment in the end.

That's better and more simply put. It's a big deal on par with American Idol being a big deal.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It's really not a huge deal. And "fairness" of determining a champion is overrated... as molson pointed out, it's about entertainment in the end.

Wouldn't seeing the top 8 teams in the country battle it out for the national championship be entertaining?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Why? He's right.

In the end, the BCS, old system, or playoffs isn't going to really tell us who is the best team (for example, I still believe the 2007-8 Patriots were the best team even though they lost in the Superbowl, and I am FAR from a Patriots fan).

One way determines the best team on the field, the other determines the best team in an office.