We have a NBA RIOT in DETROIT! (The 2004 Palace Fight)

[Dutch]

When the NBA puts the basketball courts into cages and takes away the referees and allows the basketball players to do what they do best (talk trash and fight) then I might turn on a game.

Until then, I'll just keep playing with the rabbit ears on my TV to get good reception of the Puerto Rican Basketball Association, now those boys can play some ball. I'm sure the Pistons and Pacers would both agree.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I think a lot of people are letting Wallace off lightly on this one.

Artest gave him a hard foul. Maybe unnecessary, but there was a clear overreaction on his part. The cheap shot he gave Artest was uncalled for. Artest walked away and the players broke it up. If Wallace exits stage left right then and there, this thing probably comes to an end.

Instead he continues to go after Artest. He refuses to be restrained by his coaches or his teammates. Then he fires a towel or a headband at Artest while Artest was laying on the table. The cup of beer was thrown very shortly after Wallace made that move and I don't think that was a coincedence.

After that, adrenaline took over. Once Artest was hit with a face full of beer, there was no way this was going to end pretty. A fan has no right to do that in any circumstance. It's easy to sit here and say "that was just a beer, he should walk away", but if you were a player in that position, or his teammate, what would you be thinking?

Fans coming up within ten feet of you throwing beer. . . are you supposed to believe that's where it will end. And then after you've been in an altercation, to see fans walking toward you talking smack, what exactly should your reaction be? O'Neal gave the guy a cheap shot, but in his mind all he saw at the time was Artest and the fan in a fight and Artest going backwards. Again, it's easy to sit here and say "well, the guy was on the ground, security is close, it's over" It's another thing to have adrenaline rushing through your body, not have a perfect angle to what was going on and have to make a decision.

At the end of the day, Detroit and their fans are to blame for this. Wallace deserves a major suspension not only for starting it, but also fot helping fan the flames for as long as he did. Artest, O'Neal and Jackson deserve ten games or so for their parts. The Pistons organization deserves a MAJOR fine for the lack of security and the lack of the PA making timely announcements for it all to stop.

And while Artest is psychotic most of the time, his reaction was what it should have been IMO.

Good post. It also seemed to me that Artest was "done" and walking away when that stout dude came up to him with his arms ready to throw punches. He got what he deserved, and so did his friend.

[RPI-Fan]

I haven't (and won't) read through the whole thread, but I just want to say that almost all of the blame needs to be placed on those three fucking punk-assholes, Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson.

Artest isn't the first player to have beer thrown on him - he is the first to walk into the crowd and start punching some dork who didn't even throw anything in the first place!

And then how can O'Neal and Jackson justify their actions? "Self-defense"? Bullshit. They wanted a fight so they found one and just started randomly throwing - in no way shape or form were they trying to pull Artest away from the crowd or defend him.

And then the most pathetic thing, was when Artest walked up to a fan who was standing on the floor (and perhaps might have made a comment, but made no physical or threatening gestures whatsoever towards Artest), and just started swinging.

Artest should be done for the year, and O'Neal + Jackson 20-30+ games after that display.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Does anyone else feel for Freddie Jones?

He shouldn't have gone into the stands, but he was standing there, and once Artest getting punched from behind, he tried to reach over a coach and pull the fan away. Then a 300 pound guy (at least) just starts pummeling JOnes from behind. I mean, the guy was at least twice his size.

That's the guy who had the "Credential" that Jim Gray was talking about...I wonder who it is?

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by govols

As far the the year long suspension, I would hit them hard on this one just to let players know that they better think before they do something like this. Fifteen games as this point in the season is just a vacation.

My thought on Wallace are this. Yes, he started a fight on the court. However, things that happen on the court should be handled differently. For the incident on the court Wallace should get a suspension. However, as far as I am concerned these are two separate incidents. The fight on the court was over. The fight that was started in the stands was all on Artest.

It's not separate, IMO, because Wallace incited the crowd with his hijinks. Artest did the right (albeit very dramatically) thing in laying on the table, and not reacting to Wallace. Wallace kept making a stink, and incited the crowd.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

And then the most pathetic thing, was when Artest walked up to a fan who was standing on the floor (and perhaps might have made a comment, but made no physical or threatening gestures whatsoever towards Artest), and just started swinging.

It looked to me like the guy who got punched by Artest was run up looking for a fight, and was then shocked to see Artest turn to him. You don't run towards a fight and then cry foul when you get punched.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

It looked to me like the guy who got punched by Artest was run up looking for a fight, and was then shocked to see Artest turn to him. You don't run towards a fight and then cry foul when you get punched.

Note: I'm not defending the fans. I'm saying Artest is a punk who is getting off WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too easy in this thing.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Note: I'm not defending the fans. I'm saying Artest is a punk who is getting off WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too easy in this thing.

In the court of public opinion, maybe (I'm of the opinion that he shouldn't be punished too harshly...)...but I think the NBA will be a different story. Let's not even mention legally.

[SunDancer]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

I haven't (and won't) read through the whole thread, but I just want to say that almost all of the blame needs to be placed on those three fucking punk-assholes, Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson.

Artest isn't the first player to have beer thrown on him - he is the first to walk into the crowd and start punching some dork who didn't even throw anything in the first place!

And then how can O'Neal and Jackson justify their actions? "Self-defense"? Bullshit. They wanted a fight so they found one and just started randomly throwing - in no way shape or form were they trying to pull Artest away from the crowd or defend him.

And then the most pathetic thing, was when Artest walked up to a fan who was standing on the floor (and perhaps might have made a comment, but made no physical or threatening gestures whatsoever towards Artest), and just started swinging.

Artest should be done for the year, and O'Neal + Jackson 20-30+ games after that display.

So how far do we go before a person can act to defend themself? Throwing chairs? Throwing sharp objects? The fans wanted a fight, and the players reacted. Please, do not place all the blame on the players. The fans are just as responsible as the players.

[Bomber]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Artest should be done for the year, and O'Neal + Jackson 20-30+ games after that display.

Pass the crack. Do you want to give Ben Wallace 30 games too, because none of this happens without him acting like a little girl.

I'd love to see the NBA treat Detroit like UEFA did AS Roma, ban the fans.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SunDancer

So how far do we go before a person can act to defend themself? Throwing chairs?

Well, since that happened, obviously that isn't enough for some people.

The more reaction I read (not here so much as in general), the more I'm convinced that salary-envy will play an increasing role in how people respond to this.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Pistons organization deserves a MAJOR fine for the lack of security and the lack of the PA making timely announcements for it all to stop.

I hate the Detroit PA announcer. Most annoying PA guy ever!!

[clintl]

The Pistons' organization also deserves to be fined for the idiotic remarks of its CEO following the incident.

And for those blasting Artest for lying down on the scorer's table, I'm not sure what the big deal about that was. He was getting out of the way of the fight, and not participating, and it didn't look to me like that was an unreasonable way to do that. What he did after getting hit with the beer is inexcusable, but to lay the blame on him for getting hit in the first place (which is basically what the Pistons' CEO and some posters here have done) is ridiculous.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by SunDancer

So how far do we go before a person can act to defend themself? Throwing chairs? Throwing sharp objects? The fans wanted a fight, and the players reacted. Please, do not place all the blame on the players. The fans are just as responsible as the players.

Who walked into the stands and threw the first punch?

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Who walked into the stands and threw the first punch?

Who provoked it?

[clintl]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Who walked into the stands and threw the first punch?

Throwing the beer was essentially the first punch. Artest should have gone the other way, away from the stands, but the fan who threw the beer started it.

[Tigercat]

Am I the only one who wouldn't have gone in the stands if a beer was thrown at me?

I'd rather someone consider me a "pussy" than be a lap dog who lets some dumbass in the stands pull his strings by throwing a beer. The fan wins, the fan got you going.

If that fan wants to come down and really get into it with me(or you or Artest), let him come down like a man and we will settle it physically then. But I wouldn't call it being a man when you are controlled because you can't control your emotions when you are hit with a piece of plastic.

[gstelmack]

ESPNews is running the tape at each half-hour, so I just got to get another look at this. Two comments:

- Is Ben Wallace really that much of a wimp? I finally got a good look at the foul and you must be kidding me. Artest doesn't grab him around the shoulders and throw him down, doesn't tackle him, and doesn't slam into him. He grabbed his arm and pulled it down as he went up for the shot. For as much thuggery as goes on in the NBA these days, that was nothing. I can't believe that started this whole thing.

- Most of the arrests will come from after the main event as they were getting the players out of there. The number of fans lining the railings as the Pacers were leaving that were dumping stuff, throwing a jacket, and the chair that was thrown was ridiculous. They ought to get 10 or 12 people from the video tape alone on that.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Am I the only one who wouldn't have gone in the stands if a beer was thrown at me?

I wouldn't, either. I would be looking for a place out of range of the beer throwers.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Who walked into the stands and threw the first punch?

Jackson. If you watch the tape, Artest just grinded the guys face into a seat.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Am I the only one who wouldn't have gone in the stands if a beer was thrown at me?

As someone who has actually played high-level sports (not in the NBA, but a sport where there are/were over 2,000 spectators), I can say that you're not thinking like a person sitting on a couch, watching a game. You're caught up in the moment, etc.

[SunDancer]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Am I the only one who wouldn't have gone in the stands if a beer was thrown at me?

I'd rather someone consider me a "pussy" than be a lap dog who lets some dumbass in the stands pull his strings by throwing a beer. The fan wins, the fan got you going.

If that fan wants to come down and really get into it with me(or you or Artest), let him come down like a man and we will settle it physically then. But I wouldn't call it being a man when you are controlled because you can't control your emotions when you are hit with a piece of plastic.

You say that, but when you mix the emotions of pro sports, and what just had happen on the court, and then you got idotic fans throwing crap at you, I just find it easier said then done.

[Schmidty]

Michael Rosenberg described it perfectly:

http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/...e_20041120.htm

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Michael Rosenberg described it perfectly:

I think his view is just a little biased.

[oliegirl]

Who provoked it?

Yes, the fans provoked him, however - that does NOT make what he did ok. Players in every sport during every game, and you very rarely see anything happen, and it's NEVER been this bad. If Artest had just ignored the guy, none of it would have happened - they would have played out the final 45 seconds of the game and that would have been the end of it.

I think the fans should be held responsible, they got way out of control, and the ones that instigated the whole thing should be prosecuted. But I also think that Artest, O'Neal and any other player who was involved to that extent, should also be prosecuted as well as face heavy fines and suspensions from the NBA. Anyone who plays any sport at a professional level needs to be able to keep their wits when fans ridicule them, it's part of the job. If some guy in your office walked up to you and spilled a coke on your head or something, yeah - you'd probably punch him. But after it was all over you would probably both be fired or severely punished. This should be no different, both parties are accountable and should be held as such.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

I want to apologize whole-heartedly to SirFozzie for getting personal last night. There was no excuse for that, and it was wrong. As angry as I was at the opinions and insults being hurled at Detroit fans, I should never have said the things I did.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Yes, the fans provoked him, however - that does NOT make what he did ok. Players in every sport during every game, and you very rarely see anything happen, and it's NEVER been this bad. If Artest had just ignored the guy, none of it would have happened - they would have played out the final 45 seconds of the game and that would have been the end of it.

I think the fans should be held responsible, they got way out of control, and the ones that instigated the whole thing should be prosecuted. But I also think that Artest, O'Neal and any other player who was involved to that extent, should also be prosecuted as well as face heavy fines and suspensions from the NBA. Anyone who plays any sport at a professional level needs to be able to keep their wits when fans ridicule them, it's part of the job. If some guy in your office walked up to you and spilled a coke on your head or something, yeah - you'd probably punch him. But after it was all over you would probably both be fired or severely punished. This should be no different, both parties are accountable and should be held as such.

You're absolutely right. The handful of fans who did this were classless. Their actions were inexcusable, pathetic, shameful, and downright criminal. That said, Artest should have never gone up into the stands. Ever. That's not what players do. You can't just wade into a crowd and start swinging randomly at people, especially if you're an athlete at a sporting event. Hell, if you walked past a crowd on the street, got hit in the head with a plastic bottle, turned around and started swinging at all the folks there, you would go to jail. Provoked or not. It's not an acceptable response.

The fans were in the wrong, but so was Artest and whoever joined him in going up there (unless they were trying to break it all up).

It's really a shame this had to happen. The Palace was one of the best arena in sports last year. Great atmosphere, loud, great fans. It's sad to see a handful of idiots mess it up for everyone and drudge up all this inane talk of Detroit riots, Devil's Night, etc. From a sports perspective I would find it difficult to find a set of fans who have reacted better to recent championships than Detroiters. The last four (3 Wings and last years Pistons) all went off without a hitch. It was a huge lovefest. No riots. No arrests. No fires. Nada. It was great. The same cannot be said for the likes of Boston, Denver, etc., etc.

The fans were wrong for throwing shit. But Arests was WAY wrong going up there. That's unacceptable in any sport.

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Yes, the fans provoked him, however - that does NOT make what he did ok. Players in every sport during every game, and you very rarely see anything happen, and it's NEVER been this bad. If Artest had just ignored the guy, none of it would have happened - they would have played out the final 45 seconds of the game and that would have been the end of it.

I think the fans should be held responsible, they got way out of control, and the ones that instigated the whole thing should be prosecuted. But I also think that Artest, O'Neal and any other player who was involved to that extent, should also be prosecuted as well as face heavy fines and suspensions from the NBA. Anyone who plays any sport at a professional level needs to be able to keep their wits when fans ridicule them, it's part of the job. If some guy in your office walked up to you and spilled a coke on your head or something, yeah - you'd probably punch him. But after it was all over you would probably both be fired or severely punished. This should be no different, both parties are accountable and should be held as such.

Someone threw a damn chair at O'Neal, I think he had every right to defend himself. Its really easy for us to sit on our fat asses and say the players should have shown restraint and its part of their job. Its another thing entirely when you are put in that situation.

If I'm at my place of work and I have 15,000 people screaming explitives at me for over 2 hours and then one of them comes up and dumps a coke on my head, there's no telling what the hell is going to happen. You can't possibly compare this to a work situation because none of us work at place where the vast majority of 15,000 people hate you while you are doing your job.

This crap that Artest should be suspended for the season when he attempted to take the higher road is BS. If Ben Wallace lets it drop after he hits Artest, then it stops way short of where it went. Wallace incited the crowd. Very simple.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by The_herd

Someone threw a damn chair at O'Neal, I think he had every right to defend himself. Its really easy for us to sit on our fat asses and say the players should have shown restraint and its part of their job. Its another thing entirely when you are put in that situation.

If I'm at my place of work and I have 15,000 people screaming explitives at me for over 2 hours and then one of them comes up and dumps a coke on my head, there's no telling what the hell is going to happen. You can't possibly compare this to a work situation because none of us work at place where the vast majority of 15,000 people hate you while you are doing your job.

This crap that Artest should be suspended for the season when he attempted to take the higher road is BS. If Ben Wallace lets it drop after he hits Artest, then it stops way short of where it went. Wallace incited the crowd. Very simple.

No. Comparing "real jobs" to professional athletes never works. Different worlds, different rules. That said, Artest was wrong to go into the crowd. You can't do that. That's the point where things truly got out of hand. He has a responibility to himself, his team mates, and the league to walk away from that situation. This is the truth of the matter.

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

No. Comparing "real jobs" to professional athletes never works. Different worlds, different rules. That said, Artest was wrong to go into the crowd. You can't do that. That's the point where things truly got out of hand. He has a responibility to himself, his team mates, and the league to walk away from that situation. This is the truth of the matter.

I agree, what he did was wrong, but at some point security should have been able to get control of the situation. There was a major security faliure last night and that is the fault of the NBA, not the Pistons. The NBA provides security for the games and it looked like they were caught in a state of, "What the hell do we do? I wasn't trained to do this." There were several things that led to the players going into the stands. Several parties are at fault. To simplify it as Artest is a dummy and shouldn't have done that is failing to look at the entire picture (not saying you said this, but it is trend).

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

No. Comparing "real jobs" to professional athletes never works. Different worlds, different rules. That said, Artest was wrong to go into the crowd. You can't do that. That's the point where things truly got out of hand. He has a responibility to himself, his team mates, and the league to walk away from that situation. This is the truth of the matter.

Maybe now fans will think twice before throwing crap on players. What I saw last night from Piston fans was embarrassing. Not only what started the incident, but those two guys running on the floor (thankfully they had their punishment doled out on national television), and then the team being showered with anything that wasn't bolted to the ground as they left.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Michael Rosenberg described it perfectly:

http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/...e_20041120.htm

Thanks for the article. It's another writer I can put on my list of "I'll never read another word from him again" list.

To lay this one all at the feet of Artest, when Wallace acted like a spoiled 2 year old and incited the riot by acting the way he did AND THROWING an object in Artests direction, is simply one of the most idiotic things I've ever read.

I still haven't heard anyone comment (tv, radio, paper) on the fact the beer came in right after Wallace got the bright idea to throw the towel or headband at Artest. If we are going to blame Artest for inciting the riot by going into the crowd, why don't people also look at Wallace and realize how pathetic of a move he made?

Christ, I hate Ron Artest. If he retired tomorrow to make rap albums the NBA probably would be a better place. . . But I'm just stunned people are letting Wallace get away with a slap on the wrist. This guy incited the whole thing by acting the way he did. And while throwing a headband or towel may not be a punch, he also has no right to do that to another player. Artest will get double or triple the suspension of Wallace and that's sad.

I've also lost a lot of respect that I once had for him. What a horrific display. He's lucky I'm not commish. His suspension would be damn near what it would be for any other Pacer.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Thanks for the article. It's another writer I can put on my list of "I'll never read another word from him again" list.

To lay this one all at the feet of Artest, when Wallace acted like a spoiled 2 year old and incited the riot by acting the way he did AND THROWING an object in Artests direction, is simply one of the most idiotic things I've ever read.

I still haven't heard anyone comment (tv, radio, paper) on the fact the beer came in right after Wallace got the bright idea to throw the towel or headband at Artest. If we are going to blame Artest for inciting the riot by going into the crowd, why don't people also look at Wallace and realize how pathetic of a move he made?

Christ, I hate Ron Artest. If he retired tomorrow to make rap albums the NBA probably would be a better place. . . But I'm just stunned people are letting Wallace get away with a slap on the wrist. This guy incited the whole thing by acting the way he did. And while throwing a headband or towel may not be a punch, he also has no right to do that to another player. Artest will get double or triple the suspension of Wallace and that's sad.

I've also lost a lot of respect that I once had for him. What a horrific display. He's lucky I'm not commish. His suspension would be damn near what it would be for any other Pacer.

Oh, I totally agree that Wallace (my favorite player) should get a suspension, and I'm sure he will; however, what he did happens during every season: i.e. - Player getting hacked all game, is losing, feels he was intentionly foul, goes nuts and pushes another player. Wallace was out of line and will get suspended. But you can't blame Wallace for the DECISION that a few ass-wipes made after the fact. You can only blame Wallace for decision that HE made. That also goes for Artest, Jackson, O'Neil, and the other fans.

[The_herd]

Wallace, Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal are suspended indefinitely pending investigation.

EDIT: was just announced on ESPN.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, since that happened, obviously that isn't enough for some people.

The more reaction I read (not here so much as in general), the more I'm convinced that salary-envy will play an increasing role in how people respond to this.

Will ? I think it is already- people here seem to think that a $5 million salary means others have the right to throw shit at you and not be culpable for it.

[LionsFan10]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Until then, I'll just keep playing with the rabbit ears on my TV to get good reception of the Puerto Rican Basketball Association, now those boys can play some ball. I'm sure the Pistons and Pacers would both agree.

Hell yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about right there.

[Stormcloud_Creations]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

No. Comparing "real jobs" to professional athletes never works. Different worlds, different rules. That said, Artest was wrong to go into the crowd. You can't do that. That's the point where things truly got out of hand. He has a responibility to himself, his team mates, and the league to walk away from that situation. This is the truth of the matter.

EXACTLY. What kind of team is Indiana going to field for the next X days/weeks/months without O'Neal, Artest and Jackson, and Reggie Miller hurt? Answer: Not much of one. Their whole season (meaning basketball, i.e. the other players who didn't throw punches or act silly) is basically more or less down the drain.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by The_herd

Wallace, Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal are suspended indefinitely pending investigation.

EDIT: was just announced on ESPN.

Wallace and Artest should been gone a few games. O'Neal and Jackson need to sit for a long time. Detriot fans who jumped in and attacked Jones need to be arrested and the one who made it turn into a brawl need to be arrested.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Noop

Wallace and Artest should been gone a few games. O'Neal and Jackson need to sit for a long time. Detriot fans who jumped in and attacked Jones need to be arrested and the one who made it turn into a brawl need to be arrested.

Why would Jackson get more time than Artest?

O'Neal should get 1 or 2 games, after further review. He hit a guy who was on the floor, looking for trouble. Come on the floor, whatever happens, happens.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Why would Jackson get more time than Artest?

O'Neal should get 1 or 2 games, after further review. He hit a guy who was on the floor, looking for trouble. Come on the floor, whatever happens, happens.

Jackson was running around hitting people who were not attacking him. Did you not see the replay where he was just basically attacking anything that moved.

[Bomber]

The league suspended Houston's Vernon Maxwell for 10 games for running into the stands and punching a fan in 1995. Nick Van Exel got 7 games for forearming a referee into the scorer's table in 1996. Rodman was suspended for 6 games for head-butting an official in 1996. I don't see anyone getting more than 15 games for this.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Bomber

I'd love to see the NBA treat Detroit like UEFA did AS Roma, ban the fans.

BINGO!!

[LionsFan10]

One thing nobody can disagree with is that Ron Artest wanted NO part of Ben Wallace, but had NO problem running into the stands to bout with fans not even half his size. It's almost funny to watch Ron Artest back pedal while Ben Wallace bears down on him, but the minute a 5'9" white dude throws a beer at him, he's ready to scrap.

[Maple Leafs]

A non-basketball fan's opinion:
Players do not belong in the stands, and fans do not belong in on the playing field. Period.

The players who went into stands were wrong, even if it was understandable under the circumstances. You can't go into the stands throwing punches. You just can't.

But as for the fans who came onto the court -- they deserved what they got. You come into the player's territory, the rules change and you are fair game.

In other words... Is it hypocrtical of me to think Artest is a jerk for going into the stands, but still think that him drilling that fat fan who came after him on the court was absolutely great?

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Noop

Jackson was running around hitting people who were not attacking him. Did you not see the replay where he was just basically attacking anything that moved.

Jackson didn't hit anyone at all until a second beer hit Artest. Then he was defending Artest (and himself) from a mob.

hxxp://www.imgbucket.com/63/boomshakalaka.jpg

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

In other words... Is it hypocrtical of me to think Artest is a jerk for going into the stands, but still think that him drilling that fat fan who came after him on the court was absolutely great?

No, I think most people feel the same way.

Sidenote: I don't think Artest should've gone in the stands, but I really like that he did.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by LionsFan10

One thing nobody can disagree with is that Ron Artest wanted NO part of Ben Wallace, but had NO problem running into the stands to bout with fans not even half his size. It's almost funny to watch Ron Artest back pedal while Ben Wallace bears down on him, but the minute a 5'9" white dude throws a beer at him, he's ready to scrap.

That dude in the baseball cap was pretty swole. He held his own with Artest.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

Jackson didn't hit anyone at all until a second beer hit Artest. Then he was defending Artest (and himself) from a mob.

hxxp://www.imgbucket.com/63/boomshakalaka.jpg

Are you serious? He didn't have to swing on anyone... he could have pushed those people away and grab Artest... from his body language he was looking fight.

[vtbub]

I'd like a bottle of whatever Chief was drinking last night.

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN:

Wallace gone for 10.
O'Neal, Jackson gone for 20
Artest gone for the year.
Pistons banned from beer sales.
Next Pistons-Pacers game at the Palace played to an empty house.

If Wallace doesn't shove Artest, this doesn't happen.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN:

Wallace gets 3-5 games
Artest gets traded to NBA Siberia and is suspended until then.
O'Neal and Jackson get 10.
Pistons fined big money.

[KWhit]

Throwing a beer is one thing. Going into the stands and beating the shit out of someone is totally different.

Those of you who are citing "self-defense" are out of your minds. Give me a break. If it were self defense Artest was looking for, he could EASILY have moved toward the center of the court away from the fans. No, he was looking for a fight.

There is an imaginary wall between the stands and the court - the fans should NEVER go onto the court and the players should NEVER go into the stands. When aArtest went into the stands, that turned a bad situation into probably the most horrible moment in US professional sports.

Who's to blame?
Wallace - minor blame for the initial push/overreaction. As others have said, that crap happens all the time.
The idiot fan who threw the first beer - a good amount of the blame for what he did, but what he did was not going to cause physical harm.
Artest - He gets 80-90% of the blame for this. What he did was inexcusable. He took it to another level completely. I hope he goes to jail (but I know that he won't).
Jackson - He deserves his share too. It looks to me like he wanted to kill any number of the fans in the stands.

Blame can be spread out to a lot of people, but the players should get the majority of it. I'm surprised that most posts here are defending them.

As far as the ESPN commentators who pretty much gave the players a free pass on this - the ones I saw are mostly former players themselves, and all of them have to have relationships with players. That is going to make them biased.

If you are a professional sports player, you are going to have fans scream at you, taunt you, and occasionally throw things at you (popcorn, beer, etc.). That should not give you a free pass to go physically assault them.