July console sales numbers, Volume 2........

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Agree with that to some extent, though it's going to be hard for any 360 title next year to reach the same level. All of those games are going to move Halo-like numbers worldwide. The movement of consoles is the real importance of these games. It will be interesting to see what kind of increase in sales we see over the next month and a half with the 360 because of Halo and Bioshock.

Month and a half? Try the full Christmas season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Month and a half? Try the full Christmas season.

I agree with EF27 that all of those games for the holiday season appear to be good ones. But it's not like Sony has used all of its bullets for the holiday season already. They still have 9 exclusive titles (Heavenly Sword, Hot Shots Golf, Folklore, Ratchet & Clank, Unreal Tournament 3, Singstar, Haze, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, and Time Crisis) that have still not yet been released for the system for the holidays. Who knows which ones will be hits and misses, but there's certainly still a lot of exclusive content yet to come in addition to the other 140 exclusives currently in development for the PS3 for release beyond the end of this calendar year.

Releases of note this fall:

September 10: Heavenly Sword
September 24: Skate
October 1: PlayStation Home, Hot Shots Golf, Sony/EA/2K NBA games
October 8: Folklore
October 22: Ratchet & Clank
October 29: GH3
November 5: Mercs 2, COD4, UT3, Lego Star Wars
November 12: Army of Two, Assassin’s Creed, Kane & Lynch, Orange Box, SingStar
November 19: Haze, Rock Band, Time Crisis 4, Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I agree with EF27 that all of those games for the holiday season appear to be good ones. But it's not like Sony has used all of its bullets for the holiday season already. They still have 9 exclusive titles (Heavenly Sword, Hot Shots Golf, Folklore, Ratchet & Clank, Unreal Tournament 3, Singstar, Haze, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, and Time Crisis) that have still not yet been released for the system for the holidays. Who knows which ones will be hits and misses, but there's certainly still a lot of exclusive content yet to come in addition to the other 140 exclusives currently in development for the PS3 for release beyond the end of this calendar year.

Releases of note this fall:

September 10: Heavenly Sword
September 24: Skate
October 1: PlayStation Home, Hot Shots Golf, Sony/EA/2K NBA games
October 8: Folklore
October 22: Ratchet & Clank
October 29: GH3
November 5: Mercs 2, COD4, UT3, Lego Star Wars
November 12: Army of Two, Assassin’s Creed, Kane & Lynch, Orange Box, SingStar
November 19: Haze, Rock Band, Time Crisis 4, Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune

And a majority of those are out for both systems. Sony has bullets left. The problem is they don't need bullets now. They need to shoot fire from their hands and follow it up with 20 rounds of armor peircing bullets to finish the job. (sorry, I'm playing a lot of Bioshock)

Hot Shots Golf and Ratchet should be good. But Sony doesn't need GOOD, they need GREAT. That's why Lair and Heavenly Sword (at least early impressions from the reviews I read) are so bad for Sony. They need to build up some momentum. At this point they have none and are spinning their wheels.

As EF27 said, if MS buries Sony this Christmas, the PS3 will have a very, very long road of catchup to play. I personally don't think they'll ever catch up in the US if this holiday season goes as bad as I think it will.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

As EF27 said, if MS buries Sony this Christmas, the PS3 will have a very, very long road of catchup to play. I personally don't think they'll ever catch up in the US if this holiday season goes as bad as I think it will.

What would constitute MS 'burying' Sony this holiday season? The current difference is roughly 6 million units in installed base. What level would the 360 have to push that lead out to? 8 million unit lead? 10 million unit lead? More?

[gstelmack]

Okay, I did a little poking on MetaCritic about the whole review score vs time of development. The argument posted here is that the PS3 only has 1 90+ because it's had a year less development time. That is demonstrably false. Let's look at the games:

PS3:

93 for Oblivion, released March 2007 (advantage of being a port from 360)

360:

97 for BioShock, just released (extra year of development, check)
94 for Gears of War, released November 2006 (3 months outside our window)
94 for Oblivion, released March 2006 (no extra year of development, matches Oblivion for PS3)
92 for Guitar Hero II, released April 2007 (extra year of development, check)
90 for GRAW, released March 2006 (no extra year of development)
90 for Forza Motorsport 2, just released (extra year of development, check)
90 for Call of Duty 2, launch title (no extra year of development)

We'll skip the Castelvania Arcade title as mentioned earlier.

So my question is, if the extra year of development helped the 360 so much, how do you explain no equivalent for GRAW or COD2? If you are willing to drop down to 85+ (another number banteed about here), things look even bleaker, giving Resistance from the PS3 entry as the sole launch title to meet the bar, while adding PGR3 as a launch and games like DoA 4 from that first Christmas season, while Resistance on the PS3 is the only 85+ that doesn't come after their first Holiday season.

If you do the entire first year, the PS3 finally starts to make up some ground, only trailing 6-8 on 85+ titles to the equivalent points in their lifetime (assuming games released to date on the PS3, and through August 2006 on the 360), although you've still got that 1-3 on 90+ titles over the same span. The next few months should be interesting, though, as the 360 had a STRONG second Holiday season, adding games like Splinter Cell: DA and others to this mix.

This whole "extra year gives a big nod to the 360" just does not hold water. If anything, PS3 development seems to be lagging 3-6 months behind equivalent-rated 360 titles. This sure does back up the "PS3 is harder to develop for" case though...

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

What would constitute MS 'burying' Sony this holiday season? The current difference is roughly 6 million units in installed base. What level would the 360 have to push that lead out to? 8 million unit lead? 10 million unit lead? More?

I'm not even sure MS would need to increase their lead over the holiday season to bury Sony in the US. If they can maintain the existing lead, I think it's likely that time will end up doing it for them. The longer it takes for Sony to start closing the gap, the faster they have to close the gap. As it is, it's already a pretty daunting task for Sony to come back and the longer it takes for that comeback to start the more daunting the task IMO.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

I'm not even sure MS would need to increase their lead over the holiday season to bury Sony in the US. If they can maintain the existing lead, I think it's likely that time will end up doing it for them. The longer it takes for Sony to start closing the gap, the faster they have to close the game. As it is, it's already a pretty daunting task for Sony to come back and the longer it takes for that comeback to start the more daunting the task IMO.

Oh, I wholly disagree with that. The PS3 is making up a steady 15-20K units a week in Japan alone. And that performance is considered disappointing at this point. So the 360 needs to outsell the PS3 by at least that much on this side of the Pacific just to break even on a weekly basis. That sales number will increase quite a bit at some point in Japan, whereas the 360 is pretty much dead in the water over there, much like it's predecessor.

In North America, there's a lot of people waiting on the PS3. If it continues to not impress by the next holiday season, then I agree with your assessment. But the fact that it's holding even with the 360 worldwide without any momentum certainly shows that there is a lot of room for growth for the PS3.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Oh, I wholly disagree with that. The PS3 is making up a steady 15-20K units a week in Japan alone. And that performance is considered disappointing at this point. So the 360 needs to outsell the PS3 by at least that much on this side of the Pacific just to break even on a weekly basis. That sales number will increase quite a bit at some point in Japan, whereas the 360 is pretty much dead in the water over there, much like it's predecessor.

In North America, there's a lot of people waiting on the PS3. If it continues to not impress by the next holiday season, then I agree with your assessment. But the fact that it's holding even with the 360 worldwide without any momentum certainly shows that there is a lot of room for growth for the PS3.

1) Japan is essentially worthless to the debate. We all know Sony will win there. not a contest. MS didn't plan on having monster success there.

2) If MS outsells Sony 3-1 with next gen consoles this holiday season, I'd constitue that burying. Sony's problem is twofold. They not only have to increase their sales, but they have to hope the 360 stagnates or lowers their sales. The longer this goes on, the worse it will be for Sony. (because MS isn't going to be slowing anytime soon)

3) It's still stunning to me we are having this conversation. Sony had it freakin made. Everyone with a PS2 naturally wanted a PS3. Somehow they've found a way to make those same users want more PS2's and Wii's.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Okay, I did a little poking on MetaCritic about the whole review score vs time of development. The argument posted here is that the PS3 only has 1 90+ because it's had a year less development time. That is demonstrably false. Let's look at the games:

PS3:

93 for Oblivion, released March 2007 (advantage of being a port from 360)

360:

97 for BioShock, just released (extra year of development, check)
94 for Gears of War, released November 2006 (3 months outside our window)
94 for Oblivion, released March 2006 (no extra year of development, matches Oblivion for PS3)
92 for Guitar Hero II, released April 2007 (extra year of development, check)
90 for GRAW, released March 2006 (no extra year of development)
90 for Forza Motorsport 2, just released (extra year of development, check)
90 for Call of Duty 2, launch title (no extra year of development)

We'll skip the Castelvania Arcade title as mentioned earlier.

So my question is, if the extra year of development helped the 360 so much, how do you explain no equivalent for GRAW or COD2? If you are willing to drop down to 85+ (another number banteed about here), things look even bleaker, giving Resistance from the PS3 entry as the sole launch title to meet the bar, while adding PGR3 as a launch and games like DoA 4 from that first Christmas season, while Resistance on the PS3 is the only 85+ that doesn't come after their first Holiday season.

If you do the entire first year, the PS3 finally starts to make up some ground, only trailing 6-8 on 85+ titles to the equivalent points in their lifetime (assuming games released to date on the PS3, and through August 2006 on the 360), although you've still got that 1-3 on 90+ titles over the same span. The next few months should be interesting, though, as the 360 had a STRONG second Holiday season, adding games like Splinter Cell: DA and others to this mix.

This whole "extra year gives a big nod to the 360" just does not hold water. If anything, PS3 development seems to be lagging 3-6 months behind equivalent-rated 360 titles. This sure does back up the "PS3 is harder to develop for" case though...

Oh, I don't think there's any question that the PS3 is more complicated and is creating a further lag. I'm not sure if I'd use the word 'harder' necessarily, but many developers have forgone the effort to try to utilize the full potention of the hardware and are choosing to do relatively mediocre ports, resulting in lower scores that you mention but a greater profit on the game than they would have realized had they put more development time in it. There's roughly 15 ports that don't even use the SPU's on the PS3. That's going to result in a game that's no better than what you get on the 360 or even worse quality in some cases (see Madden 08 as a prime example). It's not surprising at all that many of the ports are receiving lower scores.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

1) Japan is essentially worthless to the debate. We all know Sony will win there. not a contest. MS didn't plan on having monster success there.

That's a very short-sighted comment. It's central to the overall console wars. If the developers don't have a large installed base in Japan, they're more likely to move over to the 360 with some of the bigger games like FF and MGS. At this point, they show no signs of abandoning ship because they know there's a cash cow available in all three regions rather than only two. The developers use all three markets to make decisions, not just the ones that you choose. It's very relevant.

[Travis]

In my opinion, the clock Sony is working against is how long people will continue to want an excuse to buy a ps3. First pitfall was the price point which made it hard for people to justify, and now that they did a price cut, people can still look at it and say, "there just aren't the games for it yet, but once there is..."

I've maintained since the start of this generation that Sony was willing (though maybe not happy) to start behind the eight ball to ensure that Blu-Ray beat out HD-DVD. Now no matter whether you agree with me there (or whether that is a fruitless war given downloadable options etc, different debate), they seem to have staked themselves to a pretty good lead. Now they *need* to get the games into the lineup that will sell their system (maybe coupled with another price cut). The 360 has enough killer titles that anybody looking to go one way or the other has already bought a 360 or will likely hold out until one of the two systems hits a certain price point. Sony has the built in fan base of the previous gen, and while they have certainly alienated a portion of that (and been really stupid in a lot of ways on this release), they're only a couple titles away from making a big jump in the console portion of the war.

Obviously this is just opinion and I have no numbers to back this up, but it just seems to be less and less about anything the 360 or the Wii does at this point as compared to whether they can get some killer games out to get all these potential buyers off the fence before they just give up on it completely.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Travis

In my opinion, the clock Sony is working against is how long people will continue to want an excuse to buy a ps3. First pitfall was the price point which made it hard for people to justify, and now that they did a price cut, people can still look at it and say, "there just aren't the games for it yet, but once there is..."

I've maintained since the start of this generation that Sony was willing (though maybe not happy) to start behind the eight ball to ensure that Blu-Ray beat out HD-DVD. Now no matter whether you agree with me there (or whether that is a fruitless war given downloadable options etc, different debate), they seem to have staked themselves to a pretty good lead. Now they *need* to get the games into the lineup that will sell their system (maybe coupled with another price cut). The 360 has enough killer titles that anybody looking to go one way or the other has already bought a 360 or will likely hold out until one of the two systems hits a certain price point. Sony has the built in fan base of the previous gen, and while they have certainly alienated a portion of that (and been really stupid in a lot of ways on this release), they're only a couple titles away from making a big jump in the console portion of the war.

Obviously this is just opinion and I have no numbers to back this up, but it just seems to be less and less about anything the 360 or the Wii does at this point as compared to whether they can get some killer games out to get all these potential buyers off the fence before they just give up on it completely.

Agree with everything you said there except for the price point. Even before the drop to $500, most analysts and developers were openly stating that the PS3 has to cut its price to at least $399 before people will start having serious thoughts about purchasing the console. I think that still remains true.

Your last point is spot-on. This is almost a situation where Sony is fighting itself. I don't think the competition is all that much of a factor in consumer demand. People want a lower price and some more good games for the PS3. It'll sell regardless of what the other consoles do if they just get that done. The question is whether they actually will get that done.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's a very short-sighted comment. It's central to the overall console wars. If the developers don't have a large installed base in Japan, they're more likely to move over to the 360 with some of the bigger games like FF and MGS. At this point, they show no signs of abandoning ship because they know there's a cash cow available in all three regions rather than only two. The developers use all three markets to make decisions, not just the ones that you choose. It's very relevant.

Insanity. MS knew they weren't going to be big in Japan. It's not like this was shocking to anyone. The only thing shocking is that the PS3 couldn't run off the momentum of the PS2 and be an immediate success. (Sony blunders allowed all of that to happen)

MS has also been focusing on exclusives and grabbing them anywhere they can. So the people in Japan aren't playing Bioshock? Their loss.

I'm not saying MS doesn't want to do well in Japan, of course they do. But do you really think they are judging the success of the console on how well it does in Japan? I don't. Not even for as second do I think that. My guess is if you look at MS projections for the next 5 to 8 years, they are hoping to make some inroads into Japan but aren't predicting any type of market share for that time period.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm not saying MS doesn't want to do well in Japan, of course they do. But do you really think they are judging the success of the console on how well it does in Japan? I don't. Not even for as second do I think that. My guess is if you look at MS projections for the next 5 to 8 years, they are hoping to make some inroads into Japan but aren't predicting any type of market share for that time period.

I agree that the size of the 360 market share does not matter because it's going to be extremely small no matter what. But the size of the installed base of the PS3 in Japan matters a lot and greatly effects what games are seen on each system in the U.S. Sony desparately needs the big franchises to be released in Japan ASAP to increase the installed base. Japan has been underperforming for Sony up until now. If they don't get some units moving by the next holiday season in Japan, you're going to see a lot of the big PS3 third-party exclusives moving to both consoles. Also, a move like that may increase 360 sales in Japan to a level that may become more than an annoyance. Sony can't lose their home-field advantage or it will affect the worldwide market pretty drastically.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I agree that the size of the 360 market share does not matter because it's going to be extremely small no matter what. But the size of the installed base of the PS3 in Japan matters a lot and greatly effects what games are seen on each system in the U.S. Sony desparately needs the big franchises to be released in Japan ASAP to increase the installed base. Japan has been underperforming for Sony up until now. If they don't get some units moving by the next holiday season in Japan, you're going to see a lot of the big PS3 third-party exclusives moving to both consoles. Also, a move like that may increase 360 sales in Japan to a level that may become more than an annoyance. Sony can't lose their home-field advantage or it will affect the worldwide market pretty drastically.

That goes without saying.

Before all the pricing and timing and all of the other crap started, here is what we KNEW would happen with this console generation:

1) Nintendo would be the family system and be a distant 3rd.
2) MS would try like hell to capture some market share in the US and Europe. They wouldn't catch Sony, but they'd try to capture a big enough slice of the market to continue. They'd have no chance in hell of doing anything in Japan.
3) Sony would continue to be king. They'd sell out of the PS3 as fast as they could produce the units.

The Wii came out, caught positive buzz and exploded to the lead, a lead the other two can probably forget about ever catching.

MS released their console a year ahead of the other two and it worked to perfection. They have huge games coming out at a time when the PS3 is still looking for a signiture title. Not only did they carve out market share, they have an actual shot of winning the battle with Sony in the US. A MAJOR, MAJOR victory if it continues.

MS still sucks in Japan and will continue to suck in Japan. Only news is Sony does too. FF will likely change that. . . but who knows when that hits store shelves.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm not sure if I'd use the word 'harder' necessarily, but many developers have forgone the effort to try to utilize the full potention of the hardware and are choosing to do relatively mediocre ports

Look, you can try to spin this as lots of lazy developers all you want, but you would be very, very wrong.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Oh, I wholly disagree with that. The PS3 is making up a steady 15-20K units a week in Japan alone. And that performance is considered disappointing at this point. So the 360 needs to outsell the PS3 by at least that much on this side of the Pacific just to break even on a weekly basis. That sales number will increase quite a bit at some point in Japan, whereas the 360 is pretty much dead in the water over there, much like it's predecessor.

Accepting that number of 15-20k per week in Japan, even if the PS3 pulls even with the 360 in other regions (which is a big if since it has been outsold in America every month), the current deficit would take over 6 years to make up. If Sony drops another 1-2 million into the hole which I think is highly possible this holiday season when comparing the lineups, I think Sony has lost this round to the 360. Of course, both consoles will lose this generation to the Wii. However, that will be a much bigger blow to Sony who went into this generation as the undisputed champ.

As for big games next year, Fable 2 looks like it will be a huge game next year and you are underestimating the number of potential big hits the 360 already has announced as coming out next year. The 360 isn't going to suddenly stop having new great games come out for it just because the PS3 will finally have some.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Oh, I wholly disagree with that. The PS3 is making up a steady 15-20K units a week in Japan alone. And that performance is considered disappointing at this point. So the 360 needs to outsell the PS3 by at least that much on this side of the Pacific just to break even on a weekly basis. That sales number will increase quite a bit at some point in Japan, whereas the 360 is pretty much dead in the water over there, much like it's predecessor.

In North America, there's a lot of people waiting on the PS3. If it continues to not impress by the next holiday season, then I agree with your assessment. But the fact that it's holding even with the 360 worldwide without any momentum certainly shows that there is a lot of room for growth for the PS3.

If you notice my comment specified the US market, so what happens in Japan isn't really applicable to what I was talking about. As Troy said, we all knew what was going to happen there. Even taking into consideration Japan, the 20K units extra in Japan will mean Sony will catch up worldwide in what a mere 300 weeks? Of course, maybe Japan will double that pace so it's only 150 weeks for them to catch up! I stand by my opinion that Microsoft just keeping pace will bury Sony. Increasing the gap between the sales will just hasten it.

As to your other comments, sure right now there's a lot of people waiting on the PS3 but the longer they have to wait for decent games or lower prices the more likely they are to buy a 360 IMO. I think that's even more true over the holiday season when people are really looking to buy a console and the AAA titles that go with it. A lot of those people may end up getting both consoles down the road, but the difference when all is said and done will be the people who only buy one or the other. I think the longer it takes Sony to make the PS3 an attractive purchase the less likely people are to buy only a PS3 and the less likely independent developers are going to be concentrating on developing PS3 exclusives.

Oh by the way, you can't agree with my assessment next year if I'm right because you already wholly disagreed with me.

edit: I really need to type faster and not get distracted since others already made all my points.

[Eaglesfan27]

Because it is storming very bad and I have a bunch of no shows as a result, I thought I'd take a quick look at the games for 2008 on the 360 that could be big hits (skipping over games like Eternal Sonata, Assassin's Creed, Lost Odyssey, etc that still have potential to be big hits in 07 along with the obvious previously mentioned games which are sure to be hits):

Devil May Cry 4, Grand Theft Auto IV, Condemned 2, Unreal Tournament 3, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Fallout 3, and Fable 2. I skipped over dozens of announced games, but those were just the ones that jumped out at me.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Because it is storming very bad and I have a bunch of no shows as a result, I thought I'd take a quick look at the games for 2008 on the 360 that could be big hits (skipping over games like Eternal Sonata, Assassin's Creed, Lost Odyssey, etc that still have potential to be big hits in 07 along with the obvious previously mentioned games which are sure to be hits):

Devil May Cry 4, Grand Theft Auto IV, Condemned 2, Unreal Tournament 3, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Fallout 3, and Fable 2. I skipped over dozens of announced games, but those were just the ones that jumped out at me.

Fable 2 is a "don't hold your breath" title for me after the fiasco that the original became. I can't wait for Fallout 3, though.

Also - yay, my new PS3 arrived. Impressive turnaround on Sony's part there, I will give them that.

[sabotai]

Fable 2 will be an automatic buy for me. I thought the first one was great.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Fable 2 will be an automatic buy for me. I thought the first one was great.

My wife loved it while I thought it was good. We'll be getting the 2nd one on release day as it's one of the few games for the 360 that she is looking forward to.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Also - yay, my new PS3 arrived. Impressive turnaround on Sony's part there, I will give them that.

And, once again, your un-charmed life continues

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

Lair also gets crushed by the Gamespot reviewer:

The summary is that the game is a beautiful disaster.

4.5 rating.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/l...om_clk=topslot

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And, once again, your un-charmed life continues

SI

It's, uh, a struggle.

Would have been gorgeous if I could have found some way to transfer my network settings from PS3 to my flash drive and then back when I got the new unit, but I guess wireless security doesn't work all that well if you can just grab the encrypted key with a flash drive.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Lair also gets crushed by the Gamespot reviewer:

The summary is that the game is a beautiful disaster.

4.5 rating.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/l...om_clk=topslot

Forgetting the entire pricing debate, my initial concern is when the game was delayed just a few weeks before release date. It's one thing to delay a game for six months (GTA) and another entirely to be so close to the gold date and then push it back three weeks. It screams out that there are major issues with the game and they are trying to rush it out the door anyway.

Sony should make sure this game is off the back of the console box ASAP.

[MizzouRah]

I was just going to say, IGN gave Lair a 4.9 which is about a -9.9 to them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Because it is storming very bad and I have a bunch of no shows as a result, I thought I'd take a quick look at the games for 2008 on the 360 that could be big hits (skipping over games like Eternal Sonata, Assassin's Creed, Lost Odyssey, etc that still have potential to be big hits in 07 along with the obvious previously mentioned games which are sure to be hits):

Devil May Cry 4, Grand Theft Auto IV, Condemned 2, Unreal Tournament 3, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Fallout 3, and Fable 2. I skipped over dozens of announced games, but those were just the ones that jumped out at me.

Most of those games will also be released on the PS3 or are even some form of exclusive on the PS3. You can do better than that.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Most of those games will also be released on the PS3 or are even some form of exclusive on the PS3. You can do better than that.

Most of the games you listed will also be released on the 360. I was just listing some potential hits that will be on the 360.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Most of those games will also be released on the PS3 or are even some form of exclusive on the PS3. You can do better than that.

Who cares? We all know they are secondary on the ps3. Face it, the ps3 is HORRIBLE to program on. If it wasn't for "The Show", the ps3 might have never been heard of.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Who cares? We all know they are secondary on the ps3. Face it, the ps3 is HORRIBLE to program on. If it wasn't for "The Show", the ps3 might have never been heard of.

Actually, as we move along, the PS3 is likely to become the primary development console for most multiplatform titles. The reason is that it's difficult to port from the 360 to other consoles, while the port from the PS3 is relatively easy. EA is already switching over in some of their titles for that reason and expects to fully use the PS3 as the primary development platform by next fall. Other developers are likely going to follow that trend for the simple reason that it's going to save development dollars on projects.

Also, there's several games better than "The Show". I enjoy that game quite a bit, but shouldn't be considered as the gold standard by any means.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Most of the games you listed will also be released on the 360. I was just listing some potential hits that will be on the 360.

Actually, I listed the 9 exclusives in the post. The rest were just for reference.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Also, there's several games better than "The Show". I enjoy that game quite a bit, but shouldn't be considered as the gold standard by any means.

That's a shame. That's the one game that would make me buy a PS3. I hoping next year it IS the gold standard

[MJ4H]

Just for kicks, a few of the upcoming Wii games for 2007, since the Wii gets quite neglected in these xbox vs ps mudslings:

Upcoming Wii Releases of note for 2007:

Guilty Gear XX Accent Core 8-31
Dewy's Adventure 9-4
My Sims 9-18
Brothers in Arms: Double Time 9-?
Donkey Kong: Barrel Blast 10-8
Looney Tunes: Acme Arsenal 10-9
Harest Moon Magical Melody 10-19
Naruto: Clash of the Ninja Rev. 10-23
Endless Ocean 10-29
Batallion Wars 2 10-29
Manhunt 2 10-31
Indianapolis 500 Legends 10-?
EA Playground 10-?
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn 11-5
Super Mario Galaxy 11-12
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chr. 11-?
Mario & Sonic at the Olympics 11-?
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Anniv. 11-?
Jenga 11-?
Super Smash Bros. Brawl 12-3
Soul Caliber Legends Q4
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 Q4
NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams Q4
Medal of Honor Heroes 2 Q4
Geometry Wars: Galaxies Q4
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenk. 3 Q4

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Actually, as we move along, the PS3 is likely to become the primary development console for most multiplatform titles. The reason is that it's difficult to port from the 360 to other consoles, while the port from the PS3 is relatively easy. EA is already switching over in some of their titles for that reason and expects to fully use the PS3 as the primary development platform by next fall. Other developers are likely going to follow that trend for the simple reason that it's going to save development dollars on projects.

Also, there's several games better than "The Show". I enjoy that game quite a bit, but shouldn't be considered as the gold standard by any means.

I'll have to look up the word, "likely".

[TroyF]

Exclusives for the PS3 that should be considered GOLD standard:

Resistence: Fall of Man.

OK then, that ought about do it.

It's kind of funny. Back when I was predicting the release of the PS3 to be a complete disaster, I kept hearing a lot of the same arguements you are still bringing to the table B-ball. The PS3 was more powerful, it had a better CPU, people would be making it the main development console and porting other the games over to the 360, etc.

I remember you posting a blog by the guys who made Resistence talking about 10 reasons why the PS3 would kick ass. I remember reading the makers of Heavenly Sword saying "With the PS3, we can have thousands of characters on the screen all with their own AI, that's not possible on the 360"

Well, we are about a year later now, with the PS3 still looking for a signiture moment, and I'm hearing these same arguements. Forget programming, a majority of the games released on both systems run better and look better on the 360. It's just because every programmer who makes a game for a console is lazy, stupid and an MS hack, right?

The power of the system talk is still running rampant. Yet here we are a year later and we aren't even seeing SIGNS of that power. By November of '06 the 360 was lacking in software, but it had some killer games. Oblivion, Dead Rising, the NBA2K series, Burnout Revenge. . . and of course Gears of War. The PS3's most impressive title is Resistence. . .a game that came out with the damned system.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

That's a shame. That's the one game that would make me buy a PS3. I hoping next year it IS the gold standard

It's a good game and gets the majority of my PS3 gaming because I enjoy the RTTS mode. I've put in a lot of hours into it. But I honestly wouldn't call it the best game as Mizzourah was calling it. Warhawk is filthy good and Resistance is a great game as well. I'm not going to bother with a full ranking of games, but those are easily top 2 for me right now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting story just up about Lair. Evidently those that own a PS3 and PSP and purchase Lair can play the game remotely on their PSP. Most are saying that it's actually a much better game on the PSP because the analog nub on the PSP allows for much better control. Would be really nice if they keep doing this for future titles for the PS3.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting story just up about Lair. Evidently those that own a PS3 and PSP and purchase Lair can play the game remotely on their PSP. Most are saying that it's actually a much better game on the PSP because the analog nub on the PSP allows for much better control. Would be really nice if they keep doing this for future titles for the PS3.

It would definitely be a neat synergy for people who own both.

For what it's worth, though, from reading the initial discovery post on the PS3 boards, it's "laggy as hell." If they can improve that with future games that use Remote Play, awesome. Otherwise, it might end up being a "stupid pet trick."

[SackAttack]

Figured I'd post my progress report on each of the consoles so far now that I've had some idle time with all three. Some (or maybe most) of this isn't going to surprise people who own the console in question, and this really doesn't have anything to do with the ongoing debate in these threads; it's more of a "things I like/things I don't like about each" list than a "This system is better than those systems" list...although there are a couple direct comparisons.

Anyway, I just figured it was better to put it here than to start a whole new thread with my ramblings. This list is also subject to revision if I come across other things I like.

PlayStation 3

+ Not only can you use custom photographs for wallpapers and local user icons, there's no fooling around with "image must be of dimensions AxB." You can zoom in or out with wallpapers to get as wide or as narrow a focus as you want, and the system automatically resizes images you choose to use for the user icon. That's just goofy-cool.

+ PlayStation Store uses actual currency instead of some arbitrary points system.

+ Remote Play might actually have some potential. I'd be lying if I said I weren't intrigued by the idea of playing Ratchet Future on my PSP if I'm sitting in an airport. I would imagine PS3 would need a firmware update for a low-power "on" mode to make that feasible, though. I sure wouldn't leave it running full-bore while leaving for a two week vacation.

+ You can reassign a controller to a new 'port' at any time. Good thing, as it's the only way I can get Guitar Hero II and Rocks the '80s to even sort-of-work.

+ Blu-ray playback sure looks pretty.

+ Glad PS3's got the ability to turn the system on and off from the controller, because that touch-sensitive power button would get real old, real fast.

- So why is it that if I download a demo, I have to 'install' it before I can play it?

- The competition may use an 'arbitrary points system' for their purchases, but XBLA games and VC games are sold for whole-dollar values instead of "$5.99." The extra penny is going not going to matter to any purchases that are not instant gratification, particularly if you set it up to where people are loading specific increments into the PlayStation Wallet, as opposed to "I just need enough to buy this one game, thanks."

- If you're going to design a system meant to be played on a high-definition TV, and you're going to build the battery into the controller proper...why in the name of God are you only including a 3' or 4' USB cable with which to charge said controller?

- And why has the PlayStation 3 been on the market nearly a year without a firmware update to allow the system to charge the controller while the system is in standby mode?

- Resetting the visual options if you take the system from a HDTV to a non-HDTV is a major league Pain In The Ass.

Xbox 360

+ Best online interface around. In that train of thought, the Xbox Live Marketplace is more immediately responsive than either Wii Shop or PlayStation Store.

+ Most versatile wireless controller setup of the three; you can use AA's, or you can use either of two first-party rechargeable options, or you can use similar third-party options.

+ Not only will it download in the background, you can even turn the system 'off' while you download. It enters low-power mode until the download is complete, then shuts itself off.

+ Video Marketplace makes it easy for He Who Has No TiVo to keep up with Jericho.

+ switching TVs is relatively easy, since the system won't output in HD if the 'HD' switch isn't flipped on the component cable, or HDMI isn't plugged in. None of this "hold down the button for 10 seconds until it beeps" garbage.

- There's a complete backwards compatibility file available on the Xbox website; why isn't this a download option in Xbox Live Marketplace, similar to the iPod compatibility download?

- Having to hold down the guide button for different lengths of time to accomplish different tasks is kind of annoying. Why not have either a bar in the options tab labeled 'power options' or have a little lightning bolt icon to symbolize the same thing? Make it so that the system doesn't default to that option when somebody taps the guide button, but it's there all the same if that's all Joe Average wants to do. PlayStation 3's interface is kind of sparse when you hold down the PS button, but at least you have the options to quit the game or turn stuff off both immediately accessible.

- Why do hi-def movie downloads expire if you don't watch them within three days? It's digital. It's not like you're preventing somebody else from watching "Flags of Our Fathers" if you don't watch it right away, and once you start watching it, you only get 24 hours to finish it/watch it to your heart's content before you have to re-rent it. That's...messed up.

- Video Marketplace offerings apparently don't even support closed captioning, let alone subtitles. Way to completely shut out part of the market, Microsoft.

Wii

+ Quickest boot-up of the three.

+ "Channel" layout means that whatever you download is right there for you to pick and fool with. PlayStation 3 *kinda* does this, but you still have to navigate through a list instead of point-and-click.

+ You can use the A+B buttons to pick up your Channels and reorganize them however you see fit. The Obsessive-Compulsive Society of America gives that an A+.

+ Best selection of games in the 'store.'

+ Casual options for casual users, such as the News Channel and Weather Channel, web browser for people simply must use the Internet from their console instead of, y'know, the home computer.

+ Only one of the three consoles to directly support its predecessor's controllers for use with backwards compatibility.

- Online is coming, and that's great, but rather than go the Xbox 360 route, where there are controls that give parents the ability to restrict the level of access their kids have to the network, Nintendo went ahead and gimped what network capabilities they do provide. As of right now, there's no way to see which of your friends are currently online (although I'm told Metroid will let you see if your friends have played that game), no direct friend-invite system, and no voice chat capabilities if you are playing Mario Strikers online.

- 512 MB internal storage is fine for Wii games and current Virtual Console offerings, but at some point, much more storage is going to be needed, either for online downloads (Guitar Hero/Rock Band/other games) or Virtual Console offerings (in the near future, Neo*Geo; what happens if Saturn or Sega CD get added?). There's an SD card slot, but right now, you can't save directly to that or load directly from it.

- Is there a good reason why the Classic Controller couldn't have been directly wireless, instead of needing to plug into the Wiimote? Yeah, there's a third party option from Nyko that kind of deals with the issue...but it's a kludge fix.

? Considering the control differences between GBA and Nintendo DS, a "DS Player" similar to the various Game Boy adapters that have been available in the last three generations seems unlikely. It seems even more unlikely that Nintendo would make a Wii Game Boy Player and ignore the DS. Are they going to eschew that element of the platform entirely this generation, or are we going to see Game Boy, Game Boy Color, and Game Boy Advance games reach the Wii Shop as well?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

- The competition may use an 'arbitrary points system' for their purchases, but XBLA games and VC games are sold for whole-dollar values instead of "$5.99." The extra penny is going not going to matter to any purchases that are not instant gratification, particularly if you set it up to where people are loading specific increments into the PlayStation Wallet, as opposed to "I just need enough to buy this one game, thanks."

FYI.....I think you may not know how the PS3 purchases work. If you want to buy a game for $5.99, you just select the game to purchase it. After that, it will display the price and show that you have no money in your PS3 wallet. It will then prompt you for a credit card (or show your saved one if you chose to do so) and you can add the exact amount of the purchase to your wallet ($5.99 in this case). The PSN is actually better than the other two stores in this regard because they don't require you to purchase money or points over what you want or need. I like it because I don't have leftover points like users of the other two systems have.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Wii


- Online is coming, and that's great, but ... [snip] As of right now, there's no way to see which of your friends are currently online

This is game dependent. You can see which of your friends are online in Mario Strikers if I'm not mistaken.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FYI.....I think you may not know how the PS3 purchases work. If you want to buy a game for $5.99, you just select the game to purchase it. After that, it will display the price and show that you have no money in your PS3 wallet. It will then prompt you for a credit card (or show your saved one if you chose to do so) and you can add the exact amount of the purchase to your wallet ($5.99 in this case). The PSN is actually better than the other two stores in this regard because they don't require you to purchase money or points over what you want or need. I like it because I don't have leftover points like users of the other two systems have.

What I was saying there was *if* they're doing it with incremental loads, then the extra penny doesn't really matter because the second or third purchase from that load, it's a sunk cost already.

Don't get me wrong, I love that they don't rely on an arbitrary points system...but that penny thing bugs me.

MJ4H - You can if you load the game, but you have no way to see what your friends are playing from Wii Home, which means as far as online games go, it's really trial and error if you want to see if anybody is currently playing.

[MJ4H]

Right, it is game dependent, not a feature of the Wii system itself. That's all I meant.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Just for kicks, a few of the upcoming Wii games for 2007, since the Wii gets quite neglected in these xbox vs ps mudslings:

Upcoming Wii Releases of note for 2007:

Guilty Gear XX Accent Core 8-31
Dewy's Adventure 9-4
My Sims 9-18
Brothers in Arms: Double Time 9-?
Donkey Kong: Barrel Blast 10-8
Looney Tunes: Acme Arsenal 10-9
Harest Moon Magical Melody 10-19
Naruto: Clash of the Ninja Rev. 10-23
Endless Ocean 10-29
Batallion Wars 2 10-29
Manhunt 2 10-31
Indianapolis 500 Legends 10-?
EA Playground 10-?
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn 11-5
Super Mario Galaxy 11-12
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chr. 11-?
Mario & Sonic at the Olympics 11-?
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Anniv. 11-?
Jenga 11-?
Super Smash Bros. Brawl 12-3
Soul Caliber Legends Q4
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 Q4
NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams Q4
Medal of Honor Heroes 2 Q4
Geometry Wars: Galaxies Q4
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenk. 3 Q4

Wow MJ4H, that is quite a list. You are right that things like this get ignored in a thread like this in favor of the xbox vs ps3 mudslinging. I personally am very interested in these games from that list:

Guilty Gear, Dewy's Adventure, Endless Ocean, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl (!!), Soul Caliber Legends, NiGHTS, and Geometry Wars.

I probably will at least rent all of those and I'm buying Galaxy and Brawl on release day.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Wow MJ4H, that is quite a list. You are right that things like this get ignored in a thread like this in favor of the xbox vs ps3 mudslinging. I personally am very interested in these games from that list:

Guilty Gear, Dewy's Adventure, Endless Ocean, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl (!!), Soul Caliber Legends, NiGHTS, and Geometry Wars.

I probably will at least rent all of those and I'm buying Galaxy and Brawl on release day.

(I only laugh because I cry a little inside, particularly since this is what it was like last generation talking about these things; then again, to this day, I'll maintain that the Gamecube had a far superior game lineup to the XBox- I can count on two hands the number of good games for that system)

SI

[sabotai]

What are some thoughts on the Fire Emblem series? I see a few Fire Emblem games on the GBA and have been thingking of trying them out, but haven't heard many things (good or bad) about them.

[Big Fo]

I was going to wait until finishing Bioshock but my curiosity overwhelmed me so I got Metroid Prime 3 today, played for two or three hours and it's quite good so far. Just like in RE4Wii, Wiimote aiming shows its superiority over traditional dual analog controls.

MJ4H- I didn't see MLB Power Pros on your list, which is due out October 1 and probably my #2 most wanted Wii game behind the spectacular looking Super Mario Galaxy. Battalion Wars II and Endless Ocean look pretty cool as well.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by sabotai

What are some thoughts on the Fire Emblem series? I see a few Fire Emblem games on the GBA and have been thingking of trying them out, but haven't heard many things (good or bad) about them.

Excellent games, I think if you'll look around you'll find that they are pretty well regarded. If you're at all a fan of the genre I think you'll like them. I've always enjoyed them a lot more than their Advance Wars game. It plays like Advance Wars except the characters are persistent from level to level, you'll level them up and such, and when they die they're dead for good(apart from the beginning tutorial sections). So that can be annoying to some, but I don't find it too hard to deal with.

I still haven't heard anything about a DS Fire Emblem which blows my mind.

[Big Fo]

I've heard that if you like Advance Wars, you'll probably like Fire Emblem so I should check out one of the games sometime.