August Console Sales Numbers

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I know that the PS3 has blu-ray? What exactly does it do when it comes to gaming?

Very little. Blu-Ray, being a larger format, can hold a lot more content than a regular DVD. But, since games can only display whatever can be held in memory at any one time, the limiting factor of how much RAM each system has means that, in most cases, that extra room on the Blu-Ray disk is unnecessary. With the exception of a few very large adventure games with a ton of different unique maps/locations (that can be streamed off the Blu-Ray disk), there just isn't much need for the extra room the Blu-Ray provides given the current amount of RAM the 360 and PS3 have.

Add in to those reasons the fact that most games right now that aren't platform exclusive are being developed primarily on the 360 with PS3 versions mainly ports, and there's little reason to think that Blu-Ray is going to make much of a difference in gaming experience in this generation of gaming consoles.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

True. It just seems that the pricing is out of whack.

But what makes the $599 system of the PS3 better than the 360 when it comes to pure gaming? In three to four years, will the games be better than the 360? I know that the PS3 has blu-ray? What exactly does it do when it comes to gaming?

If you just want a console for gaming exclusively, especially given that you're looking to spend as little as possible while still getting a next-gen console, the 360 is your best bet. No question about that.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

True. It just seems that the pricing is out of whack.

But what makes the $599 system of the PS3 better than the 360 when it comes to pure gaming? In three to four years, will the games be better than the 360? I know that the PS3 has blu-ray? What exactly does it do when it comes to gaming?

There is NOTHING in the $599 PS3 system that makes it better for just gaming. For certain types of games, the Cell architecture in the PS3 is better. For other types of games, the 360 CPU is better. Basically, 1 general-purpose CPU + 7 Floating point units vs 3 general-purpose CPUs. Overall, for most gamers, it's a wash.

The extra price of the PS3 gets you a Blu-Ray player. Period.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Ah, so now the Wii isn't targeting gaming geeks? There's not a more loyal bunch of 'gaming geeks' than the Nintendo fan base. The Wii wouldn't be anything if it shunned its fan base. It can grow its base with other groups of gamers/non-gamers, but half that installed base is loyal Nintendo fans who were craving a good Nintendo console after the Gamecube debacle.

You
Have
Got
To
Be
Kidding
Me

This wasn't even a topic of debate when we were talking about the July numbers. No, it's not targeting gaming geeks, it is squarely targeting families at home and party gamers. If they were going after the hardcore gaming crowd that writes reviews, they'd have more power in the system to run the shooters and graphics-intensive games those reviewers love.

The casual gaming market is HUGE right now. Your hardcore gamers hate to find out things like more players play Poker online than are buying Halo 3 right now, for example. It's a huge business, and Nintendo made a smart move in targeting it.

[Galaxy]

Thanks for the feedback on the PS3 vs. x box 360. I will not look at picking up the 360 Premium system. Now the hard part is what sports game to pick up first.

It sounds like PS3 is gambling that people want entertainment systems, not just a gaming system. I keep hearing how the PS3 has "unlimited potential" to gaming, but I just never understood what it was.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

It sounds like PS3 is gambling that people want entertainment systems, not just a gaming system. I keep hearing how the PS3 has "unlimited potential" to gaming, but I just never understood what it was.

Down the road as developers learn more about the system architecture, it will eventually produce some excellent gaming. Right now, it's untapped potential at best. If you don't want a HD media drive, there's no reason to buck up the extra $200 for a PS3 right now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

This wasn't even a topic of debate when we were talking about the July numbers. No, it's not targeting gaming geeks, it is squarely targeting families at home and party gamers. If they were going after the hardcore gaming crowd that writes reviews, they'd have more power in the system to run the shooters and graphics-intensive games those reviewers love.

The casual gaming market is HUGE right now. Your hardcore gamers hate to find out things like more players play Poker online than are buying Halo 3 right now, for example. It's a huge business, and Nintendo made a smart move in targeting it.

According to your description, I'm actually a casual gamer and not a hardcore gamer. I own a Wii and play online poker quite a bit. However, I don't play poker because of the game. I play it because I can readily take other people's money from the comforts of my own home. The poker boom online has nothing to do with casual gaming. The poker games that are strictly for entertainment on consoles have always been big bombs even with the popularity of the card game itself. The experience is nothing without the money.

We'll agree to disagree on the current installed base of the Wii. I certainly agree that it's growing due to non-gamer interest, but the core installed base is still the gamer, especially long-time Nintendo fans.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Down the road as developers learn more about the system architecture, it will eventually produce some excellent gaming. Right now, it's untapped potential. If you don't want a HD media drive, there's no reason to buck up the extra $200 for a PS3.

When the PS3 reaches that potential, do you expect a big difference? It just seems that companies like EA and such aren't giving the PS3 the same attention as the 360 (the EA Sports games seem like they move slower on the PS3 in comparsion to 360). Do you see these companies (EA, 2k Sports) investing that extra time and money to use the PS3's potential better? Are will they just port the games?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

When the PS3 reaches that potential, do you expect a big difference? It just seems that companies like EA and such aren't giving the PS3 the same attention as the 360 (the EA Sports games seem like they move slower on the PS3 in comparsion to 360). Do you see these companies (EA, 2k Sports) investing that extra time and money to use the PS3's potential better? Are will they just port the games?

I'll clarify my point a bit: in the long run, the PS3 won't have any better games than the 360 well. I think you will find some genres are a bit better on the PS3, while other genres will be a bit better on the 360. It's hard to explain, but the PS3 power is good for small floating-point intensive tasks (graphics, some physics algorithms, some low-level AI algorithms), while the 360 power is good for more general-purpose routines (high-level AI, core gameplay mechanics, etc) or those that require access to large chunks of memory. I don't think the average consumer will notice barring some detailed screenshot comparison or some equally stupid method of comparing games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

When the PS3 reaches that potential, do you expect a big difference? It just seems that companies like EA and such aren't giving the PS3 the same attention as the 360 (the EA Sports games seem like they move slower on the PS3 in comparsion to 360). Do you see these companies (EA, 2k Sports) investing that extra time and money to use the PS3's potential better? Are will they just port the games?

The difference is all speculation. Certainly, Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5, and the Final Fantasy games all look like they will exceed from a graphics perspective anything that is produced on the 360. With that said, do you really want to wait until March 2008 to purchase a system? You can get a lot of good, cheap games on the 360 right now. Given your concerns about cost, perhaps that makes more sense for you. There's 10 PS3 exclusives coming out in the fall, but most of them are brand new IP's, so we won't know how good they are until they come out. The franchise games on the PS3 won't be in until next year. The 360 has Halo 3 and has some other new IP's that appear to be promising this fall.

EA has already stated the the PS3 will be the primary development console starting with next year's games, so that shouldn't be an issue. With that said, I personally doubt I'll be any more likely to buy an EA game based on the fact that there are better sports developers than EA. So I'm not sure I really care where they develop their games until they put out a quality product.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

When the PS3 reaches that potential, do you expect a big difference? It just seems that companies like EA and such aren't giving the PS3 the same attention as the 360 (the EA Sports games seem like they move slower on the PS3 in comparsion to 360). Do you see these companies (EA, 2k Sports) investing that extra time and money to use the PS3's potential better? Are will they just port the games?

If the PS3 doesn't get a bigger base, then I don't see why companies would put more effort into the games compared to the 360.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

According to your description, I'm actually a casual gamer and not a hardcore gamer. I own a Wii and play online poker quite a bit. However, I don't play poker because of the game. I play it because I can readily take other people's money from the comforts of my own home. The poker boom online has nothing to do with casual gaming. The poker games that are strictly for entertainment on consoles have always been big bombs even with the popularity of the card game itself. The experience is nothing without the money.

We'll agree to disagree on the current installed base of the Wii. I certainly agree that it's growing due to non-gamer interest, but the core installed base is still the gamer, especially long-time Nintendo fans.

Just because some hardcore gamers and long-time Nintendo fans own a Wii doesn't mean that's their main target audience. Just watching their ads indicate they are targeting a much more casual, non-gamer audience than either Microsoft or Sony. I think this also ties in to the discussion about the importance of the online capabilities of the Wii. Sure, Nintendo would like to have a fully functional online community but when you are targeting casual/non-gamers the online part isn't nearly as important. It's the casual people who want to play games with their families or at parties that Nintendo is going after and they are doing a great job by making a console that's fun for the whole family and entertaining with a group of people sitting around together. I think what Nintendo has done is genius. Sure the hardcore gamers are going to bitch and moan about online play or whatever, but who cares. It's not like they are going anyplace, because they are hardcore gamers. They may threaten to stop playing the Wii but the next really cool Wii game that comes out, the hardcore gamers are back.

[Neon_Chaos]

It's funny how Sony forgets how it almost drove Sega and Nintendo out of business back in the day... forget about games, support, etc. etc... you can beat out any competition just by outpricing him. Good old capitalism.

Sega Jumps the Gun, Gets Shot

1995 had arrived, and Sega of America's long-time leader, Tom Kalinske, was worried. While the Saturn had sold very well after its Japanese launch in late '94, things didn't look so rosy on the American side. That PlayStation thingamajig was scrappy, and its clear superiority in the realm of 3D could sway impressionable American consumers. Kalinske and crew decided there was only one thing to do: launch the Saturn four months early to get the jump on the competition!

Scrapping the previously proposed "Saturnday" launch of September 2nd, Kalinske told his shocked E3 keynote audience that the Saturn was available across the country even as he spoke, for the suggested retail price of $399. The audience's response was tremendous; had Sega preemptively won the next generation wars?

In any case, the day was still young. During the next keynote, Sony Computer Entertainment America President, Steve Race, walked slowly to the podium and leaned carefully forward. He uttered a single phrase, but it was enough to make the crowd go wild: "$299." From that point on, Sony's PlayStation was the system to beat in the United States.

Unfortunately for Sega, it didn't gain much from its four month head start. The rush to launch the Saturn prematurely left the system with little software (much less good software), and the high price point went a long way toward killing the system at retail. Worse, launching at only four select retailers enraged those businesses that got left out, including 800 lb. gorillas like Wal-Mart.

So, to recap, Sega of America's brilliant strategy left it with the most expensive machine with the least software, pissed off valuable retail partners, and showed Sony exactly what pitfalls it had to avoid. All in a dumb day's work, eh?

[Neon_Chaos]

The one final hope for the PS3:

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

Just because some hardcore gamers and long-time Nintendo fans own a Wii doesn't mean that's their main target audience. Just watching their ads indicate they are targeting a much more casual, non-gamer audience than either Microsoft or Sony. I think this also ties in to the discussion about the importance of the online capabilities of the Wii. Sure, Nintendo would like to have a fully functional online community but when you are targeting casual/non-gamers the online part isn't nearly as important. It's the casual people who want to play games with their families or at parties that Nintendo is going after and they are doing a great job by making a console that's fun for the whole family and entertaining with a group of people sitting around together. I think what Nintendo has done is genius. Sure the hardcore gamers are going to bitch and moan about online play or whatever, but who cares. It's not like they are going anyplace, because they are hardcore gamers. They may threaten to stop playing the Wii but the next really cool Wii game that comes out, the hardcore gamers are back.

Your comments are spot-on and certainly correlate with my point. The installed base has a large core of Nintendo fans and they will eventually play the system if some good games come out (Galaxy and Smash Bros. as a couple of examples). I also agree with you that the current marketing target is 'casual gamers'. But the Nintendo fan is still the core user at this point and is driving the continued success of the first-party games while third-party games continue to flounder.

[Kodos]

Now there is a series that's never done anything for me.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Now there is a series that's never done anything for me.

But Final Fantasy has basically been to the Playstation what Mario is for the Nintendo, and what Halo is for the XBOX.

[Kodos]

Well, that and the Metal Gear series. Which I also never got into. Hate stealth games.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Well, that and the Metal Gear series. Which I also never got into. Hate stealth games.

True. Come to think of it, Sony has more bankable console-defining game series. Unfortunately, their little fiasco about pricing the PS3 way too high negates any advantage they might have had.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Bizarre Creations has been purchased by Activision. Given Activision's stance of supporting all consoles for all games, games like Project Gotham Racing and Geometry Wars may end up multiplatform.

Press release:

http://www.bizarrecreations.com/arti...7#pressrelease

Article from Bizarre Creations exec:

http://www.bizarrecreations.com/arti...rticle_id=5277

Hello from Bizarre Creations! You may remember us as one of the largest independent developers left in the UK, well-known for both the Project Gotham Racing and Geometry Wars series. We've just finished up on PGR4, and we're putting the final touches onto The Club as we speak. We've got a couple of announcements to make, so pull up a chair and listen closely...

It's not easy being independent. Signing new games is tough, and bringing new IPs to market as an indie (like we're doing with The Club) is one of the most challenging things our company has ever faced. As I'm sure you can imagine, the most dangerous time for any independent is the period in between projects (or more precisely in between publishers).

Our management team have been preparing for the future for some time now. We've finally found a solution which allows us to not only stay as secure and profitable as we already are as a company, but also to continue to create kickass games in exactly the same way as we're doing now.

The perfect solution for us is to join the ranks of Activision, alongside their other talented studios. It's a pretty incredible chance for Bizarre to improve ourselves and make the most of all the fantastic new opportunities this opens up. Also, given the excellent support Activision offer this can mean only one thing: better games.

This is fundamentally a different deal than some you've seen around the industry recently. Bizarre isn't a developer in financial trouble, and we're certainly not looking to be "saved" by a bigger corporation. We're a dev looking to take our games to the next level, and make the absolute best products we can possibly make. Likewise, Activision is not in the business of "buying out" struggling developers either.

As you can imagine then, Bizarre are very happy with this move. Here's the lowdown:
Bizarre Creations continues to exist as is. We won't become Activision Liverpool or anything like that.

We will have absolutely no redundancies.

All of our teams continue to exist exactly how they are at the moment. Amax team (PGR4) and ****storm team (The Club) will move onto new games, whilst our Shared Technology team will use this opportunity to take our experience and tech to new levels and new formats.

The Activision way of running things is "hands off". Bizarre continue to have creative control over what we do, we still run the studio how we see fit, and we still get to run our own web site and do all sorts of fun community things!

Let's talk games then... that's why we're all here after all. Well, we're no longer tied to just one platform for starters. Our future titles can be on whatever we please - we are a truly multiplatform studio now. Of course that doesn't mean that we'll be forced to make a port of every game to every console in existence... we simply have that option available to us.
Both of our two main game teams are about to start work on two new AAA titles for Activision. One will be a racing game, and the other a character game. Of course we'll make some more detailed announcements in the future, but be prepared for something big and exciting!

What about the now? Firstly, Geometry Wars will remain unaffected; we'll continue to expand and advance the series just as we were going to do before. The Club will still be released with SEGA, Geometry Wars Galaxies will still be released with Sierra, and PGR4 will continue to be supported after its launch in October. No massive changes here then...

So that's pretty much the idea behind it. Bizarre are happy because it means we're completely safe as a company, we all get to stay exactly the same, and we now have the opportunity to stretch our legs with some brand new game concepts. This is going to be fun...

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The difference is all speculation. Certainly, Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Turismo 5, and the Final Fantasy games all look like they will exceed from a graphics perspective anything that is produced on the 360. With that said, do you really want to wait until March 2008 to purchase a system? You can get a lot of good, cheap games on the 360 right now. Given your concerns about cost, perhaps that makes more sense for you. There's 10 PS3 exclusives coming out in the fall, but most of them are brand new IP's, so we won't know how good they are until they come out. The franchise games on the PS3 won't be in until next year. The 360 has Halo 3 and has some other new IP's that appear to be promising this fall.

EA has already stated the the PS3 will be the primary development console starting with next year's games, so that shouldn't be an issue. With that said, I personally doubt I'll be any more likely to buy an EA game based on the fact that there are better sports developers than EA. So I'm not sure I really care where they develop their games until they put out a quality product.

I'm not in a big hurry to pick up a system, even though I'm starting to get the itch. I just want to pick up the right system. The problem with EA is they hold the licenses for the football games (NFL and NCAA, likely to hold through this current generation). I've been reading that rumors are flying of a lower-priced 40GB PS3 being produced.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I'm not in a big hurry to pick up a system, even though I'm starting to get the itch. I just want to pick up the right system. The problem with EA is they hold the licenses for the football games (NFL and NCAA, likely to hold through this current generation). I've been reading that rumors are flying of a lower-priced 40GB PS3 being produced.

If you're not in a hurry, you're better off waiting until spring no matter which one you chose.

In the case of the 360, you'll likely get one of the newer 360 models with the smaller 65nm chip and the improved heat sink, thereby greatly reducing your chances of getting the 'Red Ring of Death' error.

On the PS3 side, you could hold off until February or March and likely get the cheaper $399 model you mentioned in plenty of time to play some of the franchise games that start coming for the PS3 in March. You may find some pretty good deals for both consoles on some of the games already out.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Epic has decided to nix the PS3/PC cross-platform play on UT3. They said a patch may be issued to allow players to play cross-platform, but that the initial release will not have that option available.

http://www.beyondunreal.com/content/articles/203_1.php

[Big Fo]

Nice of Epic to spare dual analog users the trouble of getting pwned by PC gamers, although you can use keyboard/mouse on the PS3 version iirc.

Endless Ocean delayed until Q1 2008, even the damn Europeans will get this before us.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Bizarre Creations has been purchased by Activision. Given Activision's stance of supporting all consoles for all games, games like Project Gotham Racing and Geometry Wars may end up multiplatform.

"May"? Geometry Wars was already headed to Nintendo Wii with Sierra as the publisher.

Project Gotham Racing, on the other hand, that would be an interesting game to see on the PS3.

Provided, of course, that Sony can fix the god damn sync issues with the Sixaxis controllers. "Whee! Control amnesia! Just gonna take a little smoke break here, we'll let you play again in a minute!"

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Provided, of course, that Sony can fix the god damn sync issues with the Sixaxis controllers.

I've seen that mentioned on occasion, but haven't had any problems with mine. Does it just drop completely or disconnect and then reconnect a few seconds later?

[SackAttack]

Depends on the game.

NHL, it just drops completely and then reconnects a few seconds later.

Untold Legends, it spazzes out. The character starts running all over the damn place and then a few seconds later I regain control.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting numbers over the last two weeks in Japan. Major PSP sales boost due to the release of the PSP Slim and the FF Crisis Core game..........

September 10 - 16, 2007
PSP - 95,487
DSL - 79,974
Wii - 26,181
PS2 - 13,128
PS3 - 13,101
X360 - 1,243

Sept. 17-23
1- PSP 264,000
2- DSL 67,000
3- Wii 27,000
4- PS2 13,000
5- PS3 11,000
6- 360 1,800

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

When the PS3 reaches that potential, do you expect a big difference? It just seems that companies like EA and such aren't giving the PS3 the same attention as the 360 (the EA Sports games seem like they move slower on the PS3 in comparsion to 360). Do you see these companies (EA, 2k Sports) investing that extra time and money to use the PS3's potential better? Are will they just port the games?

Before we start making statements like this, we're going to have to sit back and see how things develop. These things really do shift over time and in a big way and everyone just keeps assuming the status quo of a year on something that is a really long cycle.

Who thought Square was going to publish for the Playstation coming into the N64-PSX battle and it was one of the games that turned the whole generation on its ears? Unlikely scenario, but these types of things do happen- what if, say, Sony decides to pony up big bucks to make Madden a PS3 exclusive? Particularly with the NFL licence being locked up, what happens to the 360 gamers who are in it for sports games only, one of their big markets? It's unforseen stuff like this that can turn a generation on a dime and we're just getting started.

SI

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Before we start making statements like this, we're going to have to sit back and see how things develop. These things really do shift over time and in a big way and everyone just keeps assuming the status quo of a year on something that is a really long cycle.

Who thought Square was going to publish for the Playstation coming into the N64-PSX battle and it was one of the games that turned the whole generation on its ears? Unlikely scenario, but these types of things do happen- what if, say, Sony decides to pony up big bucks to make Madden a PS3 exclusive? Particularly with the NFL licence being locked up, what happens to the 360 gamers who are in it for sports games only, one of their big markets? It's unforseen stuff like this that can turn a generation on a dime and we're just getting started.

SI

Oh god. That would suck if Sony made Madden an exclusive.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Oh god. That would suck if Sony made Madden an exclusive.

I'd be extremely surprised if the NFL allowed that to happen.

Regarding the PS3/360 debate, pay close attention to what gstelmack is telling you - he not only works for a video game developer, he's a programmer, and as such has much better insight to the strengths and weaknesses of both consoles from a hardware perspective (I'm in the industry too, but I'm an animator, so my info is 2nd hand from our programmers).

Also keep in mind that so long as the 360 has a major lead in console sales over the PS3, the vast majority of developers will focus their game development on the 360 and their PS3 versions will be mostly a straight port - there probably wont be many PS3 SKU's of games that spend much time trying to optimize and maximize content for the PS3 hardware.

[SackAttack]

Apparently Microsoft owns the PGR IP, so Project Gotham on the PS3 wouldn't come to fruition.

Then again, though, Bizarre went from Metropolis Street Racer on the Dreamcast to PGR on the Xbox, so the idea of them doing a similar game with a different name as a multiplatform release isn't entirely farfetched.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Also keep in mind that so long as the 360 has a major lead in console sales over the PS3, the vast majority of developers will focus their game development on the 360 and their PS3 versions will be mostly a straight port - there probably wont be many PS3 SKU's of games that spend much time trying to optimize and maximize content for the PS3 hardware.

This has to be one of the weakest arguments against the PS3. I'll grant you that there are some current ports that have come in sub-par to the 360 counterpart over the past few months. There are also some ports like Oblivion which are actually an improvement over the 360 counterparts. For the most part, outside of the debacle that is EA, the ports have been just as good as their 360 counterparts. Within a year, the ports on both systems will be the same other than very slight differences one way or the other. EA has stated that they'll be developing with the PS3 as the primary development platform starting next year, but I personally never hold out any hope that EA can actually improve their games no matter which platform they're developing on.

All of that port discussion aside, multiplatform games generally aren't the system sellers anyway. Games like Madden and GTA may give slight sales boosts, but they pale in comparison to the boosts from exclusive franchise titles. The 360 will see a spike with Halo and saw a slight spike with Bioshock. They'll likely see small spikes with the release of some other games like Mass Effect this fall. Similarly, the PS3 will see spikes with MGS4, FF, and GT5 along with a smaller spike on some of the other exclusives. Sales numbers of the PSP in Japan were through the roof after the latest FF game was released. Those kind of situations are what alters the landscape of a console war.

Events like what sterlingice mentioned similarly can turn things. One thing to remember is that both of these companies have a ton of money and aren't afraid to spend it to get market base. MS has spent quite a bit early on and it has shown well for them thus far in this generation. Sony's recently added nearly $3 billion to their cash on hand and recently reported a 4x increase in income for their company as a whole. They have the means now to make a further price cut at a loss and make some exclusive moves.

What Sony/MS decide to do with their money could help them (or hurt them) in the long run. The Sega Saturn article above is a good example of a move gone terribly wrong. At one point in their lifetimes, the N64 and Dreamcast were in the driver's seat. The Xbox 360's sales figures over the first 20 months are remarkably similar to the Gamecube's sales figures over that same time period. Shows you how much a console war can change over a few short years. Regardless, console wars are always interesting to watch from a marketing and economics standpoint.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good news for Wii fans here. The next version of Fatal Frame is coming to the Wii.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3163198

[MikeVic]

I read somewhere that the Samba Amigo (or whatever it's called) game is coming to Wii too. The monkey maracas game on Dreamcast. I never got to play it, but heard it's good.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'd be extremely surprised if the NFL allowed that to happen.

Regarding the PS3/360 debate, pay close attention to what gstelmack is telling you - he not only works for a video game developer, he's a programmer, and as such has much better insight to the strengths and weaknesses of both consoles from a hardware perspective (I'm in the industry too, but I'm an animator, so my info is 2nd hand from our programmers).

Also keep in mind that so long as the 360 has a major lead in console sales over the PS3, the vast majority of developers will focus their game development on the 360 and their PS3 versions will be mostly a straight port - there probably wont be many PS3 SKU's of games that spend much time trying to optimize and maximize content for the PS3 hardware.

Thanks. I don't know if I'll wait til the spring, but I want to give it until November or so (College Hoops 2k8, perheps). I'm guessing the 360 consoles on the shelve by not have the problems they've have. It does seem the 360 does have a better online system (not to mention my friends have the 360 and online play).

I'm guessing the contract between the NFL and EA has some clauses to prevent that. Of course, EA paid a fortune to acquire the license. I wonder how it is paying off so far.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Thanks. I don't know if I'll wait til the spring, but I want to give it until November or so (College Hoops 2k8, perheps). I'm guessing the 360 consoles on the shelve by not have the problems they've have. It does seem the 360 does have a better online system (not to mention my friends have the 360 and online play).

I'm guessing the contract between the NFL and EA has some clauses to prevent that. Of course, EA paid a fortune to acquire the license. I wonder how it is paying off so far.

All indications are that by November, the shelves will only have the new and improved 360's that are much more reliable. They are already appearing on shelves now and the older ones should be sold out by then.

[spleen1015]

I guess Halo 3 is doing alright.

$170 million on day 1. Not bad.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

It does seem the 360 does have a better online system (not to mention my friends have the 360 and online play).

I'm guessing the contract between the NFL and EA has some clauses to prevent that. Of course, EA paid a fortune to acquire the license. I wonder how it is paying off so far.

If your friends and you play online a lot and they use the 360 to do that, I'm not sure why you wouldn't chose the 360.

Madden sales are down double digits for the second year in a row. However, they're down because of the game itself, not the license.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I guess Halo 3 is doing alright.

$170 million on day 1. Not bad.

Without a link to check, I'm assuming that $170M you mention is the U.S. sales total and not worldwide sales. Microsoft was forecasting $300 million worldwide in sales before release day. It would also be interesting to see what percentage of the higher priced packages they sold out of that total. The dollar figure overall isn't as important as the number of games sold and consoles sold during the week due to the Halo release.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If your friends and you play online a lot and they use the 360 to do that, I'm not sure why you wouldn't chose the 360.

Madden sales are down double digits for the second year in a row. However, they're down because of the game itself, not the license.

Well, unless you argue (as many would - I think even you have agreed with this in the past) that the license has allowed EA to be lazy because of no competition - therefore the game has suffered because of the license.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Without a link to check, I'm assuming that $170M you mention is the U.S. sales total and not worldwide sales. Microsoft was forecasting $300 million worldwide in sales before release day. It would also be interesting to see what percentage of the higher priced packages they sold out of that total. The dollar figure overall isn't as important as the number of games sold and consoles sold during the week due to the Halo release.

What? Who cares how many games they sold. It's the monetary value that counts! The news bit I saw last night said this is the biggest opening day in entertainment history (including movies and the like). Approximately 1.5 million people logged in to Live to play the game on opening day. There's no way you're spinning this as a disappointment.

[Bee]

The $170 Million dollar figure was US only though FTR.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What? Who cares how many games they sold. It's the monetary value that counts! The news bit I saw last night said this is the biggest opening day in entertainment history (including movies and the like). Approximately 1.5 million people logged in to Live to play the game on opening day. There's no way you're spinning this as a disappointment.

No, I just was curious for a couple of reasons. First, the overall dollar figure isn't that important because it's a sales figure that's spread over different priced packages. So we can't just divide whatever number it is by $60 to get the number of game units sold (helps to determine attach rate).

Also, MS was hoping for a major console sale boost from Halo. I'm interested to see what number will come out of September in regards to sales. There will be some estimates early next week, but we won't see the NPD numbers until mid-October. Hopefully he posts the link to give some clearer info.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Couple of developers add to the PS3 price complaints. I hope all the developers fuss about it to push Sony further towards a quicker price cut. With that said, it states in the second article that Eidos tripled their development budget for the PS3, so they must not be that concerned.

http://www.ps3news.com/General_OffTo...ger_PS3_sales/

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=29044

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This has to be one of the weakest arguments against the PS3.

Except that it's true.

As Greg has already pointed out in this thread, there's not really a clear hardware advantage for either the 360 or PS3 - each has their strengths and weaknesses. So there's not necessarily a lot of extra stuff a developer can wring out of a PS3 SKU that they couldn't get out of their 360 SKU. But even if there is, so long as the 360 has a big lead in install base, there's not much financial incentive for developers to do much extra in their PS3 SKU that they didn't do in their 360 SKU - unless Sony pays them to do so.

And while you might think that exclusives are the driving force of sales for consoles, that's not the case for everyone. Take your average Madden/sports junkie - sports games might be the primary thing they buy consoles for, so all the exclusives don't mean much to them. They are more interested in how their EA games, which are on all platforms, look and play on each console.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Except that it's true.

As Greg has already pointed out in this thread, there's not really a clear hardware advantage for either the 360 or PS3 - each has their strengths and weaknesses. So there's not necessarily a lot of extra stuff a developer can wring out of a PS3 SKU that they couldn't get out of their 360 SKU. But even if there is, so long as the 360 has a big lead in install base, there's not much financial incentive for developers to do much extra in their PS3 SKU that they didn't do in their 360 SKU - unless Sony pays them to do so.

And while you might think that exclusives are the driving force of sales for consoles, that's not the case for everyone. Take your average Madden/sports junkie - sports games might be the primary thing they buy consoles for, so all the exclusives don't mean much to them. They are more interested in how their EA games, which are on all platforms, look and play on each console.

I generally agree with everything you said here. There's generally no difference between the consoles at this point in regards to games, but I disagree with the hardware point. The PS3 has the better hardware, but it's inmaterial at this point because it's not being used by the porting developers. They're producing roughly the same games at this time. That likely won't be the case in the future, but that's speculation until it actually occurs and I'll freely admit that.

As far as Madden, I noted that there is a small spike in that case, but it's very small. The spike in sales for Bioshock was much larger and the Halo 3 spike will make the Madden jump look like a mere blip in the grand scheme of things. These exclusives are a much larger driver of sales.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I generally agree with everything you said here. There's generally no difference between the consoles at this point in regards to games, but I disagree with the hardware point. The PS3 has the better hardware, but it's inmaterial at this point because it's not being used by the porting developers.

Contrary to what Sony would have you believe, this really isn't the case. In talking with our programmers and reading detailed analysis online, the reality is pretty much how gstelmack (also a programmer) has laid it out - each system has strengths and weaknesses compared to the other. There is no clear-cut hardware advantage for either one. On the whole, you might be able to argue a slight advantage for the PS3, but it's not anywhere close to the advantage the Xbox had from a hardware standpoint compared to the PS2.

This is coming from programmers at companies that are multi-platform with no vested interest in one console over the other BTW.

As far as Madden, I noted that there is a small spike in that case, but it's very small. The spike in sales for Bioshock was much larger and the Halo 3 spike will make the Madden jump look like a mere blip in the grand scheme of things. These exclusives are a much larger driver of sales.

Madden and other sports titles aren't usually going to be the driving force behind console decisions, but they are often tipping points. For a lot of gamers, the advantage of Halo on the 360 is countered by the advantage of MGS on the PS3, so the tipping point is how the common games look on each system (in particular the sports games).

The big exclusives will produce bumps because of the "true-believers", but for much of the less fanatical, it's games like Madden and how they compare on each console that tip the scales. Assuming that EA fixes their problems with their PS3 SKU next year, it will be interesting to see how the 360 and PS3 SKU's compare in sales relative to each console's install base.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Assuming that EA fixes their problems with their PS3 SKU next year, it will be interesting to see how the 360 and PS3 SKU's compare in sales relative to each console's install base.

Stop with this mindless speculation.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

New screen shots for Silent Hill V available. These shots are from the PS3 version as it is the primary development console. A 360 version is also in the works.

http://silenthill5.net/silent-hill-5...creenshots.php