It's Official...Tim Howard joins Man U.

[MIJB#19]

People are still overseeing John O'Brien, the key defensive midfielder in Japan and Korea. O'Brien is one of few players who Ajax coach Koeman want to play every game and he has finally returned from his injury after 6 months of absence.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by rufusjonz

The US has to be up and coming worldwide...unless Arena is just a weak coach tactic-wise and technique-wise. I still have questions about that.

We now have:
3 world class Goalkeepers (Howard should definitely be US #1)
2 Premier League level strikers (McBride, Donovan)
1 Premier League captain midfielder (Reyna, when not injured)
1 up and coming finesse winger (DeMarcus Beasley)
1 14 year old prodigy (Freddie Adu)
plus several other players playing in top euro divisions (Bocanegra, Lewis, a few others I cant think of right now).

Optimism time!

I think Donovan and McBride still need to prove that they're "premier level," and Reyna is getting a bit creaky. Still things look very good for the US. The thing that I think the US has always been missing, and still is, is that creative force in the midfield. They always seem so blah, almost German even. Hopefully the arrival of Adu will change the way youngsters approach soccer. I'd love to see more salsa and less white bread.

[Mac Howard]

>So does Van Nistelrooij need more of a speed guy like, say, Vassell to draw attention away from him or does he need more of a target man like, say, Emile Heskey to get connect with (arguments of the qualities of said names aside)?

He needs a mobile, selfless player to take the pressure of him, come up with a few assists and preferably goes on to score 15-20 goals a season himself to boost the overall total. But effective strikers are not known for their selflessnes - unlike Henry, RvN doesn't produce many assists, he's so totally focused on scoring himself.

>Didn't he and Solskjaer worked together pretty well?

No. They don't play together at all well. Solksjaer is a goal poacher himself and they just don't work together well. I thought Alex should have used Dwight Yorke more, I think he could have supported RvN the way he supported Cole, but Dwight was too keen on the nightlife for Alex. Good to see him doing well now at Blackburn - he's a classy player with far too casual an attitude for most managers - Souness and Yorke do have their problems

Unfortunately for Solksjaer his best role is still as sub when Utd need a goal with 20 minutes to go.

>That sucks. Is it just poor form or is he just not up to the quality that United need?

It's difficult to say but it does happen a lot - a young player breaks through into the team, looks like a future star and then fades in his second season. Rooney isn't having anything like the season he had last for example.

It may be that we're more sympathetic with young players and forgive them their errors more easily and then have expectations the following season that demands the progress we saw should continue. Then we become more critical.

O'Shea's problem seems to be one of confidence. He makes a couple of plays. They don't come for him and suddenly he's struggling and the simple errors creep in. And for defenders it only needs a couple of errors to make it look as if they've had a rotten match. Forwards can get away with more - a blatant missed chance can be forgotten if the next chance is converted.

>At least if it's just poor form and a confidence problem, maybe he'll recover next year and be back to his old self.

Hope so because Utd are very short of defenders if Ferdinand doesn't have his ban reduced.

................................................................................................................
"Who's winning, dad?"

"The team in red, Georgie"

"I'm backing the team in red, dad, your's is the one in blue. Icecream for me if red wins!"

Never mentions what's in it for me if blue wins

Heh.
..............................................................................................................

She's never got a hold of the idea that a bet means losing something if lost - not getting the icecream is her idea of paying her dues. My wife says I spoil her. I say it's my way of getting to watch football games instead of Disney

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Kanu and Kluivert made a fine couple at Ajax, but Kluivert is really more of a deep striker.

Makes sense as Kanu seems to be at his best playing just behind the striker. So is Dennis. What is that? Some kind of Ajax thing?

By the way, did you know we have another product of the Ajax youth system on the roster? Yup, another striker . . . Quincy Owusu-Abeyie.

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Kluivert and Henry? that will not work, I think.

It's possible, depending on how much Kluivert is willing to NOT be the focus. Henry seems to do a good job of roaming all over the place so that'd leave the box for Kluivert to take care of.

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Kluivert is now demoted to backup for Ruud and Van der Vaart.
Van der Vaart could be more of an addition to Arsenal, though I'd rather see Van Perise leave the Dutch league.

Yeah, I would've thought an attacking playmaker to match up with Vieira in the middle would've been nice. Sadly, I haven't heard very much in the way of rumours connecting him to us.

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

The Van Persie deal is said to be off overhere, as Reyes is said to play the same position (Arsenal still has Ljungberg and Pires to play there as well, right?) But if Reyes is the same type of player, why would Arsenal rather pay double to get Reyes?

Apparently, Wenger has been a big fan of the kid since he was 17. They've had one of their scout following Sevilla for a bit. I'm sure his game against Real didn't hurt. Everything I've read have had Reyes and Van Persie being the same type of players (natural left-winger who can play in the middle or behind the striker). A big possibility for chasing Reyes and Van Persie is that Wenger is looking to make sure to have a replacement for Pires on hand. He's tried Bentley out there without as much success. This would allow Reyes to be on the left wing with Bentley behind the striker, occupying Dennis' spot. Interestingly, though, in the introduction press conference, Wenger mentioned foreseeing Reyes growing into the striker role.

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Van Persie was demoted back to the left wing at Feyenoord, yet the guy keeps on playing like he is supposed to be on the right wing, left wing and in the center... He does get involved in most of the goals, but wheter it is good to not do what the trainer wants is something different...

Ouch. Sounds hard-headed. That doesn't sound like he'd make a very good match for Wenger.

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

BTW, Kluivert had a limited transfer fee of 1M Euro last summer, yet not a single team took the bait. The most serious club was rumoured to be the current laughing stock of the Dutch eredivise, FC Zwolle...

Yeah, I was following that as well. I was really shocked that nobody bit on that, given his past accomplishments and reputation. Why is it you think nobody took a chance? Besides his high wage bill (which is why Sylvain Wiltord isn't in Paris right now).

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

He needs a mobile, selfless player to take the pressure of him, come up with a few assists and preferably goes on to score 15-20 goals a season himself to boost the overall total. But effective strikers are not known for their selflessnes - unlike Henry, RvN doesn't produce many assists, he's so totally focused on scoring himself.

He needs . . . Nwankwo Kanu!

Gawds, I hope that never happens. I think having him behind RvN would cause a havoc for the rest of the EPL. And it'd come back to haunt the Gunners terribly.

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

It's difficult to say but it does happen a lot - a young player breaks through into the team, looks like a future star and then fades in his second season. Rooney isn't having anything like the season he had last for example.

With baseball, there's a lot of instances of "sophomore jinxes". It generally has to do with teams adjusting to the young player and that player still learning to adapt to that (he can't hit curveballs, he can be pitched to inside, etc). I'm not sure if or how that phenomena can be translated to football/soccer.

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

O'Shea's problem seems to be one of confidence. He makes a couple of plays. They don't come for him and suddenly he's struggling and the simple errors creep in. And for defenders it only needs a couple of errors to make it look as if they've had a rotten match. Forwards can get away with more - a blatant missed chance can be forgotten if the next chance is converted.

Yeah, goalkeepers and defenders seems to be in the same boat as American football cornerbacks. Every mistake is glaring. But at least if the problem is only a confidence issue, he can recover. Maybe after a relaxing offseason and a nice preseason tour, he'll be back to his old self.

Hey, if worse comes to worse, we'll be glad to swap Pascal Cygan to you gusy for him.

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

Hope so because Utd are very short of defenders if Ferdinand doesn't have his ban reduced.

Maybe someone else from the reserve team can step in. Ferguson seems to have done a good job in the past of bringing along young players and having them play well.

At the least, United will probably be one of the few buyers this offseason.

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

She's never got a hold of the idea that a bet means losing something if lost - not getting the icecream is her idea of paying her dues. My wife says I spoil her. I say it's my way of getting to watch football games instead of Disney

Heh. Sounds like she's right and you DO spoil her!

Maybe you can bet her Disney versus football.

[Mac Howard]

Well in half an hour's time Disney goes anyway - it's Utd v Southampton and the first chance to see Saha alongside van Nistelrooy. Georgie's already been told that The Neverending Story is about to end!

I learn there's another addition to the weekend - Arsenal are set up for tomorrow (Sunday) night's match (and a chance to see Reyes) followed by Chelsea. Now that's a weekend - Utd on Saturday, Arsenal then Chelsea on Sunday and the SuperBowl on Monday morning. I suspect I'm going to use up a lot of goodwill this weekend

[Mac Howard]

Well, Saha played very well - scored one and one assist. He looked just the player we want - mobile, skillful, has vision, worked for the team, shoots well from distance, challenges effectively for the high balls, complements RvN well (though the chemistry has yet to come). Just what we want!

Unfortunately the rest of the team played like cr_p! How they came away with a 3-2 win is beyond me. Still, as you've doubtless learned from your smg experience, if you boost attacking play you lose some of your defensive play. Utd certainly did that.

Tim Howard had a mixed game - made some great saves but also some Barthez-like errors. With the defence panicking in front of him he looked much less assured.

Did you see Reyes?

[Blade6119]

Well, a lot of American activity recently. Mcbride and Mathis both scored in their European debuts(both wins), and now Zach Thornton will be the 4th U.S. keeper to a major Foreign Club...looks to me like trying to get on a trend, since i feel the first 3 were in a seperate class..but i might be wrong...

And now donovan's move to portsmouth is up in the air...looking like it wont go through after all, though i think he is to some european club(most likely england) in the near future.

[Mr. Wednesday]

The move to Portsmouth is definitely off, since it had to happen more than 24 hours ago to make it in before the close of the midseason transfer window.

[Katon]

Well, Reyes can definitely finish. His first start for Arsenal and he's already scoring the game-winner. Nice shot, completely wrongfooted the keeper from the edge of the area.

Now if only he could remember which way he was going.

[Mac Howard]

Trying to steal Gary Neville's thunder, eh?

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Katon

Well, Reyes can definitely finish. His first start for Arsenal and he's already scoring the game-winner. Nice shot, completely wrongfooted the keeper from the edge of the area.

Now if only he could remember which way he was going.

Hey, you have to start SOMEWHERE.

[Easy Mac]

Did anyone else hear that Cory Gibbs and Jovan Kirovski are coming to the MLS?

I think Gibbs cold have stayed overseas and done well, but the MLS must have offered him a nice contract. This had to be in the works for a while, because I think he turned down an offer from like Hannover or something.

And its about damn time Kirovski came back here. He's been wasting away in Europe for years... maybe he can get hooked up to the juvenation machine or something, because he's got sooo much raw talent.

[Blade6119]

i think with mathis, mcbride, and thornton all leaving they have some money to spend

[Blade6119]

Bundesliga veteran joins L.A.

Associated Press

CARSON, Calif. -- Midfielder Andreas Herzog, a two-time member of Austria's World Cup team, signed with the Los Angeles Galaxy.

Terms of the contract were not announced. Herzog is the first Austrian to join an MLS team.

"I'm very excited to be joining the L.A. Galaxy,'' Herzog said in a statement Tuesday. "Not only am I thrilled at the opportunity to come to the United States and play, but also to be able to suit up for the marquee club in MLS.

"This is a club that has the talent to make another run at the MLS Cup in 2004 and I hope to be a major part of that.''

The 35-year-old Herzog has played 18 seasons of professional soccer, including 10 in the German Bundesliga and seven in the Austrian Bundesliga. He played with Rapid Vienna of Austria's First Division last season.

Herzog has also played in 103 games with Austria's national team, including the 1990 and '98 World Cups.

"The acquisition of Andreas provides the Galaxy with a player who possesses great ability and a proven track record at the highest levels,'' general manager Doug Hamilton said. "He is technically sound, a player whose vision and passing can open the game for his teammates as well as make him a threat on goal.''

[Easy Mac]

And just when I thought the MLS had quit the practice of picking up old useless foreigners. There goes a promising young player's spot.

[daedalus]

Isn't that what they did with the last league and had been trying to avoid this time?

[Mac Howard]

The rapacious appetite of the major leagues for the best players regardless of where they come from and the wish of older, fading players to extend their careers doesn't do any favours for developing leagues. The quality here in the Australian leagues is very poor. It's said that the best 200 players are playing abroad - few Aussies have problems qualifying to play in European leagues as most are, or descendants of, recently immigrated citizens. Imagine what would happen to the EPL, Serie A, La Liga etc if you took the best 10 players from the twenty top clubs

[Critch]

Sitting at work this afternoon I was contemplating vanishing off early to hit one of the bars in DC to watch the Spurs vs Man City English FA Cup game. In the end work got the better of the decision, so I stayed at work keeping up to date with the score thanks to the wonderful internet.

By half-time it's 3-0 to Spurs and Man City have had a player sent off so looks like I made the right decision not losing an hour or two of work. Turns out instead that I missed one of the greatest comebacks ever. Man City, down to 10 men and playing away from home, scored 4 in the second half including a last minute winner. Spurs 3-4 Man City, final score.

What a game. Once more work gets in the way of me seeing a great game. I friggin hate work.

[daedalus]

That's a crazy, crazy comeback.

A really harsh article on Martin Keown. But incredibly hilarious. Heh.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Critch

Sitting at work this afternoon I was contemplating vanishing off early to hit one of the bars in DC to watch the Spurs vs Man City English FA Cup game. In the end work got the better of the decision, so I stayed at work keeping up to date with the score thanks to the wonderful internet.

By half-time it's 3-0 to Spurs and Man City have had a player sent off so looks like I made the right decision not losing an hour or two of work. Turns out instead that I missed one of the greatest comebacks ever. Man City, down to 10 men and playing away from home, scored 4 in the second half including a last minute winner. Spurs 3-4 Man City, final score.

What a game. Once more work gets in the way of me seeing a great game. I friggin hate work.

I watched the game; totally unbelievable, I thought about turning it off at halftime when it was 3-0. Glad I didn't. As soon as Man City hit their second, you had the feeling they would win. Just an incredible finish.

[Blade6119]

Rising star leaves Europe to play in MLS

ESPN Soccernet.com news services

DALLAS - The Dallas Burn acquired defender Cory Gibbs on Thursday. Gibbs, 24, has spent the last three years with St. Pauli of the regional Bundesliga.

"We're very excited to have Cory on board," said Burn head coach Colin Clarke. "I spoke to a lot of people regarding Cory before we consummated the deal and I heard nothing but good things about him both on and off the field ... He's got a great future ahead of him and we're looking for him to be the mainstay of our defense for years to come."

Gibbs joined St. Pauli in 2001 and became the youngest American to play a full 90 minutes in the Bundesliga and his goal vs. F.C. Cologne on November 24, 2001 made him the youngest American to score a goal in the Bundesliga. From 2001-04, Gibbs appeared in 65 career matches with St. Pauli.

Gibbs has seven caps with the U.S. National Team, making his debut as a substitute in the Confederations Cup tune-up vs. New Zealand on June 8, 2003. Gibbs was also a member of the starting eleven for both matches against Brazil in 2003.

"I'm excited not only to be joining the Burn but to be coming back to America," said Gibbs. "I had a great experience in Germany but I felt that playing in MLS and playing with the Burn was a great situation for me. I'm just excited about the overall situation."

Well...this is the exact oppostie of what i expected after the signing of that old austrian guy...

[Blade6119]

Kirovski leaves Birmingham to join MLS

ESPN Soccernet.com news services

CARSON, Calif. -- The Los Angeles Galaxy signed U.S. National Team forward Jovan Kirovski on Friday.

The Galaxy using their allocation received from the retirement of Mauricio Cienfuegos acquired Kirovski, who joins the club after a two-year stint with Birmingham City of the English Premier League.

"I'm very excited to join the L.A. Galaxy, I've been thinking about coming back to play in the U.S. for a long time. Being from Southern California, this is a great opportunity for me to come home and have all of my family and friends around me," said Kirovski.

One of the United States' most experienced internationals, Kirovski has played with several of the top clubs in Europe, boasting stints at Manchester United, Borussia Dortmund and Sporting Lisbon. He began his professional career in Europe as a 15-year-old, joining Manchester United's youth program in 1992.

A member the U.S. National Team since 1994, Kirovski has made 59 international appearances. Kirovski boasts nine goals with the full U.S. National Team, ranking him in the top 20 all-time.

"We're thrilled to add Jovan to the Galaxy's growing offensive arsenal," said Galaxy head coach Sigi Schmid. "He is anxiously awaiting an opportunity to play first team football on a regular basis and is a player that by his performance with the Galaxy can earn his ticket to the World Cup in 2006."

The 27-year-old Kirovski started his professional career in 1992 signing with world-renowned club Manchester United, joining their reserve team. For the next four years, Kirovski played with Manchester United's A and B squads and was part of the same class that produced English stars David Beckham and Ryan Giggs.

In 1996, Kirovski signed with Bundesliga champion Borussia Dortmund in August. For the next two seasons (1996-98), he played in 20 games with Dortmund, scoring his first professional goal for Dortmund in a Champions' League match vs. Sparta Prague in a 3-0 win on Dec. 10, 1996.

Next, Borussia Dortmund sent Kirovski on a one-year loan to second division club Fortuna Cologne. With Fortuna Cologne, Kirovski scored two goals in 20 appearances. He returned to Dortmund for the 1999-2000 season, but did not make an appearance. In 2000, he joined Portuguese league champion Sporting Lisbon for a season, making five appearances all as a substitute.

He then moved to the English first division signing with former EPL club Crystal Palace. Joining U.S. National Team teammate Greg Berhalter at Crystal Palace, Kirovski posted one of his best seasons playing in 26 games - 22 starts - with five goals, three of which were game winners, as an attacking midfielder.

Most recently, he spent two seasons with Birmingham City of the EPL, playing in 20-plus games and scoring two goals.

[Mac Howard]

Saha has been picked for the French squad. It would be interesting to see how he plays alongside Henry, daedalus.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

Saha has been picked for the French squad. It would be interesting to see how he plays alongside Henry, daedalus.

It'd be really, really interesting. If I understand correctly Coleman plays 4-5-1 with Fulham and he did well in that so he should fit well with Henry in the poacher/scorer role with Henry's passing ability and tendency to roam a little more. Do you think he and Henry will mesh better than Henry and Trezuget?

Entirely unrelated, I STILL can't believe Ferguson didn't buy a centreback.

[BreizhManu]

Originally Posted by daedalus

It'd be really, really interesting. If I understand correctly Coleman plays 4-5-1 with Fulham and he did well in that so he should fit well with Henry in the poacher/scorer role with Henry's passing ability and tendency to roam a little more. Do you think he and Henry will mesh better than Henry and Trezuget?

I don't think so

He'll do better with Trezeguet or Cissé (pure strikers) than with Henry.

[daedalus]

Oh? Why so? (I've never seen Saha or Cissé play.)

[Mac Howard]

I've been very impressed by what I've seen of Saha so far, particularly his mobility and his intelligent use of the ball. I had thought that he may have been too much of a penalty box man to work with van Nistelrooy well but that just isn't the case. He works well with RvN already, comes back and links with midfield and still finds time to break through into the box and become the target man. No complaints at all so far.

Whether he will work as well with Henry, I'm not sure. Henry himself likes to move around and be provider rather than just finishing. The two in fact may be quite similar in style. BreizhManu may well be right - it could be he works best with a fixed striker. Interesting times for him - 3 matches with a quality team and he's into the French squad.

And as for the central defender - Utd needed another quality centreback BEFORE Ferdinand's ban. Now it's a matter of desperation!

[daedalus]

This will be interesting to see what happens with Henry and Trezeguet both out on hurt and Cissé out on stupidity. Does this leave the front line as Saha - Marlet? How does that work out?

As far as Manchester United's defense goes, do they have any of the kids ready to step in? What's the likelihood of the much talk about move of pulling Keane back for centreback duty?

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by daedalus

As far as Manchester United's defense goes, do they have any of the kids ready to step in? What's the likelihood of the much talk about move of pulling Keane back for centreback duty?

Johnathan Spector

[daedalus]

Ouch. With Ferdinand out and now Silvestre's injury, maybe we'll see Spector much earlier than Ferguson intended!

I guess it's Keane and O'Shea in the middle for now?

[SirFozzie]

I wonder with Keane's dismissal in the first leg of the CL game against Porto (Porto 2-1 ManU!!!0 who will play in defense for ManYoo in the 2nd leg..

[daedalus]

Yikes. That's harsh.

Looks like Neville gets to try to work with either O'Shea or Brown. Wonder if Brown is ready for 90 minutes yet.

[MIJB#19]

Maybe ManU should readdopt the good old Brazilian style from the 60s and 70s: "Football means scoring more goals than the opponent"
Obviously, 1-0 will suffice, but with the latest defensive form, reaching a 3-goal margin early on would seem like a better plan.

[SirFozzie]

Fun to see the picture on soccernet.... looks painful, Keane looks like he's using the Porto goalie as a stepmaster

[Katon]

And as if United weren't having enough trouble, their latest target at PSV just signed for a certain other English club . I don't really know that much about Robben as a player, but everything I've heard suggests he's a great signing.

[Calis]

Sheesh, Chelsea is just going crazy this year. There is no limit to the Russian Mob's coffers. I've never seen this kid play, but yeah, from what I've read he sounds like quite a catch.

I've just recently started getting into things this year, I'm usually a late bloomer waiting for American Football to get finished up before delving in. So now I'm busy trying to catch up with everything that's happened the last 6 months or so. Lot of info.

Must've watched the Fulham vs. Man U match on FSW about 5 times the last few days, why I'm not exactly sure. I'm just curious, I know I've read a lot of people critizicing Ronaldo for MannyU, but has he been playing like he did that match? Think the kid looks to have huge potential. He was really the only thing going for them that match. They looked horrible.

Also got a chance to watch Cisse for Auxerre. That boy can play as well, I'm sure he'll be moving on soon enough.

Wish I could watch more. I'm passed the stage where it was awesome to be able to watch anything when I first got FSW, and now I want more.

I STILL haven't found an EPL team that I want to root for. I've got to make a decision soon. I'm a Celtic fan first and foremost, but that's just not cutting it anymore. There's not a whole lot of suspense there, and only the pain of them choking in Europe every year.

[MIJB#19]

Arjen Robben is the best guy in the country to play left wing.
Forget Zenden.
Forget Overmars.
Forget Van Persie.
Arjen Robben is the name of the guy who just sold his soul to Chelsea to play 25 games a year.

But really, Robben is so young and such a great player already.
I really hope he get's to play a lot at Chelsea and doesn't get into a yuk-rotation-yuk system...

[Katon]

Oh, don't worry, I'd already forgotten Zenden. Is Robben a pure left winger, or can he play elsewhere (ie on the right or up front)? I'm sure Ranieri has some plan for how to play Robben and Duff at the same time, but I have absolutely no idea what it is. There must be a plan, though. Unless Geremi suddenly hits form, Robben and Duff will be our only two moderately competent wide players*, and considering how much we've needed an extra spark of creativity this season I can't see Ranieri making them compete with each other for a starting slot.

* note: this is not to say they're only moderately competent. When he's healthy, Duff is the best winger in the Premiership, and from what I've heard Robben is right up there.

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Calis

Also got a chance to watch Cisse for Auxerre. That boy can play as well, I'm sure he'll be moving on soon enough.

Cisse is moving to Liverpool for 14.5 million in the summer as far as I know.

[Chief Rum]

No, he's been bought by Chelsea. Oh wait, that's just in my dynasty.

CR

[klayman]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

No, he's been bought by Chelsea. Oh wait, that's just in my dynasty.

CR

Bastard! Scared me there for a second.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Calis

I STILL haven't found an EPL team that I want to root for.

Fulham, Blackburn, ManU, ManCity, and Tottenham all have first-team Yanks abroad playing. Fulham and ManCity are the only ones with field players.

I like to see all five do well, but if push came to shove at this point, I'd probably go with Fulham.

(Which is funny, because two years ago I was in line with everyone else who thought Fulham was evil for jerking Eddie Lewis around. )

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Katon

Oh, don't worry, I'd already forgotten Zenden. Is Robben a pure left winger, or can he play elsewhere (ie on the right or up front)? I'm sure Ranieri has some plan for how to play Robben and Duff at the same time, but I have absolutely no idea what it is. There must be a plan, though. Unless Geremi suddenly hits form, Robben and Duff will be our only two moderately competent wide players*, and considering how much we've needed an extra spark of creativity this season I can't see Ranieri making them compete with each other for a starting slot.

* note: this is not to say they're only moderately competent. When he's healthy, Duff is the best winger in the Premiership, and from what I've heard Robben is right up there.

Providing Robben get's used to the level of play in the Premiership, Robben should be a better left winger then Damien Duff.
Robben can play as a fake-striker too, the kind of #10 guy that comes from behind the real striker.
Robben will be the left winger at Euro2004 for the Dutch team, unless he get's injured, so you'll have a couple of games to get to see him play on a high level.
Putting him on the right wing should be a waste of talent really, he's improved his right leg the last months significantly, but he isn't a rare two legged monster, unlike Wesley "thrashing the Scottish" Sneijder.

Ask the Americans how Robben tore apart Team USA's defense about 2 weeks ago.

[daedalus]

This is based on just the one game (Holland-USA) that I saw Robben played so it may be wrong . . .

Robben didn't strike me as the prototypical wide player who'll be raining down crosses from the left wing. He seemed more like the type that cuts inside and attacks the defenses directly. Sort of like how Pires and Ljungberg tend to. He did seem like he'd be able to play behind the striker, if he can get used to having less space to deal with.

And he, uhhh, really hurted Hejduk's feeling in that game. Dude made him looked BAD.

As a fan of the game in general, I'm kind of sad he's going to Chelsea instead of Manchester United. He'd be stuck behind too many players instead of getting to develop. Though, as an Arsenal fan, I'm happy he went to Chelsea instead. He'll be stuck behind too many players and won't hurt us as much as he would at Manchester United. The very idea of Cristiano Ronaldo and Arjen Robben on opposing flank is less than pleasant. The other cool part about him going to Chelsea instead is just the fact that he won't be going to Manchester United. I thought the fact that they had him touring around Old Trafford before everything was settled was rather shady.

I'm now waiting for the next round of Manchester United fans complaining about the "big money team" coming in and stealing players. It makes me giggle in the same way that a baseball team with 120M payroll complain about a "big payroll team" does.

[daedalus]

There's an article on Soccernet about PSV developing a working relationship with Chelsea [ here ]. It kinda saddened me to see a club like PSV becoming a developmental club for another but, as long as it keeps them afloat, it's a good thing.

I know Arsenal had been working on a similar relationship with Willem II for awhile now. Hopefully, that gets settled soon. It'd be nice to have a place for some of the kids to be able to get some first team experience.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by daedalus

There's an article on Soccernet about PSV developing a working relationship with Chelsea [ here ]. It kinda saddened me to see a club like PSV becoming a developmental club for another but, as long as it keeps them afloat, it's a good thing.

I know Arsenal had been working on a similar relationship with Willem II for awhile now. Hopefully, that gets settled soon. It'd be nice to have a place for some of the kids to be able to get some first team experience.

Yeah, I heard about a sort of working relationship between Chelsea and PSV, yet I wonder how long it will last.

Ajax used to have schools in Africa and bascially ignores them now.
Feyenoord did the same and ignores them too. Feyenoord also addopted Rotterdam's third team, Excelsior, and now that team looks like a Feyenoord clone with fans complaining about their own identity.
Barcelona once started a project with Sparta (Rotterdam) and that never got off the ground.

PSV was in financial trouble as the club has always lived on the sale of top players to top teams in England, Spain and Italy, which have been not going on recently with Kevin Hofland, Mark van Bommel and Mateja Kezman not getting sold over injuries and the market dropping really fast.
PSV is glad to get that much money for Robben in today's market. Qustion now is, who will they get as replacement, the left wing is open for grabs now...

ManU has been the big ass in the whole situation, making a 20-year old feel wanted, with a tour and all, arranged behind the backs of PSV's president and management, then tell him he's not who they want. I dunno how big the "You don't want me? I'll beat you!" sentiments are, but I hope they are in place.
On the other hand, Chelsea is the only club in the world still paying money of the years 1999-2001, makes it PSV easy to get cash and waive ManU aside.
Rumors are Chelsea and PSV were secretly talking during the secret visit of Robben to ManU, making it a really delicate transfer...

Now, I hope Robben get's back in form and start scoring or making assists again, I want to win this game in the Rotterdam Daily (translated title) were Robben is a key player on my top100 ranked team.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Robben didn't strike me as the prototypical wide player who'll be raining down crosses from the left wing. He seemed more like the type that cuts inside and attacks the defenses directly. Sort of like how Pires and Ljungberg tend to. He did seem like he'd be able to play behind the striker, if he can get used to having less space to deal with.

And he, uhhh, really hurted Hejduk's feeling in that game. Dude made him looked BAD.

I think that depends more on the way the defense plays. Robben can be a prototypical Dutch school winger, but he could turn and go for the shot himself at times. Makes it harder for the defense to anticipate on his next moves.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by daedalus

As a fan of the game in general, I'm kind of sad he's going to Chelsea instead of Manchester United. He'd be stuck behind too many players instead of getting to develop. Though, as an Arsenal fan, I'm happy he went to Chelsea instead. He'll be stuck behind too many players and won't hurt us as much as he would at Manchester United. The very idea of Cristiano Ronaldo and Arjen Robben on opposing flank is less than pleasant.

Too many players? Did Chelsea sign someone I don't know about? The only winger we have who has any argument for playing ahead of Robben is Duff, and considering Duff's fragility and Ranieri's willingness to play wingers on their weaker flank I would say that Duff will actually be less of an impediment to Robben than Ryan Giggs would have been at Man U.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Yeah, I heard about a sort of working relationship between Chelsea and PSV, yet I wonder how long it will last.

I think it might actually be a fairly long lasting and worthwhile relationship for both teams. Chelsea has a lot of depth, a lot of money and are usually buying. There'll always be target who doesn't have their work permit. The Dutch teams seem to usually do a good job developing players. Looks like a good job pair.

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

ManU has been the big ass in the whole situation, making a 20-year old feel wanted, with a tour and all, arranged behind the backs of PSV's president and management, then tell him he's not who they want. I dunno how big the "You don't want me? I'll beat you!" sentiments are, but I hope they are in place.
On the other hand, Chelsea is the only club in the world still paying money of the years 1999-2001, makes it PSV easy to get cash and waive ManU aside.
Rumors are Chelsea and PSV were secretly talking during the secret visit of Robben to ManU, making it a really delicate transfer...

I think they still wanted him. But I think, based on Harry van Raay's comment, it's possible that United was hoping that they had unsettled Robben enough and that PSV was in a bad enough financial state that they could lowball PSV and get away with it. Obviously Van Raay is a biased party but his comment suggested that, after all the initial discussions, the actual offer was less than they had agreed on.