The thread of the 2008-2009 NBA Season

[stevew]

Yeah. So Rum. You guys lookin good in preseason?

Just being a jackass.


And the injury bug is biting the Cavs hard it seems.

Would really like a 2 guard that won't get hurt for a change. Our top 3 are out.

[Groundhog]

NEW YORK KNICKS FANS DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK!!!!

Everybody else, LOL:

ESPN.com - NBA - Trade Machine Results

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

NEW YORK KNICKS FANS DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK!!!!

Everybody else, LOL:

ESPN.com - NBA - Trade Machine Results

Dat shit ain't funny!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

NEW YORK KNICKS FANS DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINK!!!!

Everybody else, LOL:

ESPN.com - NBA - Trade Machine Results

I could see David Stern making it happen.

"Now, Memphis, you'd better trade Pau Gasol to the Lakers for spare parts"

SI

[sterlingice]

Now, I'm not a big fan of Simmons as his name dropping and pop culture crap just gets in the way of his sports, but I do like his trade value column and this year's is out:

The Sports Guy: Bill Simmons NBA Trade Value rankings for 2009 - ESPN Page 2

SI

[larrymcg421]

Rondo 19 pts, 15 rebounds, 14 assists.

Unreal.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Rondo 19 pts, 15 rebounds, 14 assists.

Unreal.

He may be the most improved player over the course of the season. I saw his month by month assist numbers have climbed from just over 6 to just over ten this season. If he ever gets a jump shot he'll make it a Big Four.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

He may be the most improved player over the course of the season. I saw his month by month assist numbers have climbed from just over 6 to just over ten this season. If he ever gets a jump shot he'll make it a Big Four.

I'd say by the time that happens one of the current 3 will be gone or at the very least, far less "Big," Ray Allen being the most likely.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

I'd say by the time that happens one of the current 3 will be gone or at the very least, far less "Big," Ray Allen being the most likely.

stop demeaning jesus shuttlesworth!

In 2001, he was named honorary captain of the 25-member UConn All-Century Basketball Team!

NBA Champion: 2008
All-NBA Second Team: 2005
All-NBA Third Team: 2001
9-time NBA All-Star: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009
NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1997
NBA Joe Dumars NBA Sportsmanship Award: 2003
The Sporting News "Good Guy": 2000, 2001, 2005^[22]
NBA All-Star Weekend Three-point Shootout champion: 2001
Holds NBA record for most three-point field goals made in a regular season with 269 in 2005-06^[23]
NBA regular season leader, three-point field goals attempted: 2006 (653)
NBA all-time career three-point field goals made: 2nd with 2,213 (as of January 29, 2009)
Holds NBA record for most seasons leading the league in three-point field goals made with 3 (2001-02 with 229, 2002-03 with 201, 2005-06 with 269)
Shares NBA record for most three-point field goals made in one half with 8 with Tracy Mcgrady (April 14, 2002 vs. the Charlotte Hornets).
Shares NBA record for most three-point field goals made in a single NBA Finals Game with 7 with Kenny Smith and Scottie Pippen (June 17, 2008, in Game 6 of the 2008 NBA Finals)
Holds NBA record for most three-point field goals made in an NBA Finals series with 22 (2008 NBA Finals)
Holds Milwaukee Bucks franchise records for most consecutive games played (400), most career three-point field goals made (1,051), and most career three-point field goals attempted (2,587).
Ranks 53rd all time on the NBA's scoring leader list trailing Dave Bing (as of April 16, 2008).
Member of the 2000 United States men's basketball team, which won gold at the Sydney Olympics.

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL - don't mind me. I just loves me some Ray Allen.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Now, I'm not a big fan of Simmons as his name dropping and pop culture crap just gets in the way of his sports, but I do like his trade value column and this year's is out:

The Sports Guy: Bill Simmons NBA Trade Value rankings for 2009 - ESPN Page 2

SI

I'm not usually a fan of his, but I really enjoyed that column.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm not usually a fan of his, but I really enjoyed that column.

I like his NBA stuff but, again, it's hard to find him on the NBA

SI

[sterlingice]

No mention of the trade today?

Heat swap Shawn Marion for Jermaine O'Neal - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Not exactly a secret but Jermaine O'Neal to the Heat for Shawn Marion got the official seal of done-ness.

SI

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Now, I'm not a big fan of Simmons as his name dropping and pop culture crap just gets in the way of his sports, but I do like his trade value column and this year's is out:

The Sports Guy: Bill Simmons NBA Trade Value rankings for 2009 - ESPN Page 2

SI

I enjoyed the column as well.

Question: I admit I'm not a die-hard NBA fan, but Kobe at 6 - really? Gun to your head, it seems to me that he ought to be slightly higher than Duncan or Wade, though I recognize he's 30. Either way, tough call.

PS - Manu at 16? You're saying if a team could trade a 30-year old SG with bad knees for Chris Bosh or Carmelo Anthony, they wouldn't do it?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

No mention of the trade today?

Heat swap Shawn Marion for Jermaine O'Neal - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Not exactly a secret but Jermaine O'Neal to the Heat for Shawn Marion got the official seal of done-ness.

SI

I like this for the Raps.

[Karlifornia]

NBADraft.net has Darren Collison slated as a late first round pick. Any non lottery team that picks him up will have a steal on their hands. Here's my top 10 as of right now:


1.Blake Griffin- Oklahoma
2.Brandon Jennings- Euroleague
3.Al-Farouq Aminu- Wake Forest
4.James Harden- Arizona State
5.Hasheem Thabeet- Connecticut
6.Demar DeRozan- USC
7.Jordan Hill- Arizona
8.Greg Monroe- Georgetown
9.Jeff Teague- Wake Forest
10.Stephen Curry- Davidson

[whomario]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

No mention of the trade today?

Heat swap Shawn Marion for Jermaine O'Neal - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

Not exactly a secret but Jermaine O'Neal to the Heat for Shawn Marion got the official seal of done-ness.

SI

Good Trade for the Raptors for once. Finally a halfway competent SF. Yeah, Marion also doesn´t create shots but at least he gives them a legit fastbreak option (provided Calderon learns how to run one ...) and also gives them the option to play him with either Bosh or Bargnani at the 5, especially with Bargnani might work well with Bargnani as a "set-defender" who boxes out and Marion roaming a bit defensively.
O´Neal really hindered Bargnani too, so that is another bonus in the "adition by subtraction" mold.

For the Heat it makes sense as well, it´s not like Marion was having a big role offensively and even if O´Neal is a shadow of his former self, he´s replacing an even more messed up Magloire and Joel Anthony ...

Other players involved are Jamario Moon and Marcus Banks, i guess both will play a role as well with Moon taking over partially for Marion (15-20 minutes) and Banks has the backup spot at the point up for grabs if i am not mistaken concerning Ukic/Salomon being rather shaky there.


as for Rondo : He´s really fun to watch, great young PG. The Jump Shot Part won´t work out though, he´s just not "build" to be a jumpshooter. But then again, he does everything else so great it won´t be that big of a problem as long as you don´t get a ball-needy scorer next to him (sounds strange seeing the Big 3, but neither of them nescesserily needs the ball much to be effective) .

[Atocep]

Michael Lewis has a very nice article about Shane Battier and the Rockets in the New York Times. Very long, but one of the more entertaining basketball articles I've ever read.

The No-Stats All-Star - NYTimes.com

[Peregrine]

Yeah I was going to post that article too - just a really excellent read.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Michael Lewis has a very nice article about Shane Battier and the Rockets in the New York Times. Very long, but one of the more entertaining basketball articles I've ever read.

The No-Stats All-Star - NYTimes.com

Just wanted to second this as an interesting read

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Michael Lewis has a very nice article about Shane Battier and the Rockets in the New York Times. Very long, but one of the more entertaining basketball articles I've ever read.

The No-Stats All-Star - NYTimes.com

+3

great read

[Chief Rum]

I was surprised to see Porter let go already, and then I read about some of the details of how his coaching style has been really bad there. Ouch.

Gentry's a decent guy, I remember from his Clips days, nice to see him get another shot, even as an interim.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I didn't quite "get" Simmons' trade value column at first. I had to go through the first 25 players before I even figured out what exactly he was ranking. I guess it's because he assumed that everyone had read the ones from previous years, which I had not done. Ugh.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I didn't quite "get" Simmons' trade value column at first. I had to go through the first 25 players before I even figured out what exactly he was ranking. I guess it's because he assumed that everyone had read the ones from previous years, which I had not done. Ugh.

Not to be a dicktooth, but did you read the sidebar "The Rules" section of the article. I say that, but I've read all the previous ones, so they make perfect sense to me.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Michael Lewis has a very nice article about Shane Battier and the Rockets in the New York Times. Very long, but one of the more entertaining basketball articles I've ever read.

The No-Stats All-Star - NYTimes.com

Very good read, but I had no idea Battier was so under-rated?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Not to be a dicktooth, but did you read the sidebar "The Rules" section of the article. I say that, but I've read all the previous ones, so they make perfect sense to me.

Looking at it again, I read everything except the last rule which makes it fairly clear. If that rule had been first, I would've gotten it. Instead, I read the first three or four rules or whatever and didn't know what he was measuring, so I tried to figure it out on my own. Then I figured it out after reading up on 25 players. So I know it's my fault for not reading all the rules, but I suppose I just expected a little more explanation for a column that only gets written once a year.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Not to be a dicktooth, but did you read the sidebar "The Rules" section of the article. I say that, but I've read all the previous ones, so they make perfect sense to me.

"DOROTHY DICKTOOTH IS A SAINT!"

[sooner333]

Wow...looks like the Thunder didn't have to give up any of their five first rounders over the next two seasons to acquire Tyson Chandler. Just the rights to a second round pick from last season, and the expiring contracts of Chris Wilcox and Joe Smith.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Wow...looks like the Thunder didn't have to give up any of their five first rounders over the next two seasons to acquire Tyson Chandler. Just the rights to a second round pick from last season, and the expiring contracts of Chris Wilcox and Joe Smith.

That's another nice move by the Thunder. The success of their franchise in OKC will rest on what they do with these next two drafts- what they trade up for and draft and how they manage this young team.

SI

[Groundhog]

Youth doesn't win games. They have a great foundation, but I can see some problems.

1) They need a PG. Westbrook isn't a PG, though he can play there in spurts. Unless there is a Deron or CP in this next draft (which there isn't - but there are a few "combo-guards" like Westbrook who will go top-10), they need to look at acquiring a veteran guy here IMO.

2) PG-Westbrook-Durant-Green-Chandler. Who's the odd one out here? I say Green. He is a talented young player, but I don't think he's a PF, not of a winning team. If you can't get Blake Griffin (or maybe Monroe) in the draft, I'm trading Green and a draft pick or two and trying to get my hands on a bigman who can score and play D. With Chandler in the middle he doesn't need to be a big rebounder or shot blocker.

3) A scorer off the bench. Watson, Collison, and Kristic are all pretty good guys to have coming off the bench, but none of them are going to light up the opposition. It should be an easy task to acquire a scorer in the draft. Teague or Harden would fit the bill, but Harden likely won't be around when they pick if the Thunder keep winning games.

4) UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE THUNDER DRAFT PROJECT BIGMEN! Stay the hell away from BJ Mullens and Jerome Jordan, if history is anything to go by.

I have to say though, the Thunder are beginning to look like they could be in a position to rebuild Trailblazers style.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Youth doesn't win games. They have a great foundation, but I can see some problems.

1) They need a PG. Westbrook isn't a PG, though he can play there in spurts. Unless there is a Deron or CP in this next draft (which there isn't - but there are a few "combo-guards" like Westbrook who will go top-10), they need to look at acquiring a veteran guy here IMO.

While I agree with most of your points, I have to slightly disagree with this one:

Brandon Jennings | NBADraft.net

[sooner333]

I hear a lot about Rubio too, but don't really know much about his game (other than he looked cool in the Olympics). Is he a true PG type or is he more of the combo guard variety which we don't need as much?

Westbrook has adjusted well to the PG spot, but I agree, he's not a true PG. I would rather have him run point, however, then have him play SG because he doesn't have the range. While Durant and Green are adept at shooting 3's, the team is still low in the league in three's per game. They need someone who can fill it up from out there (but shouldn't overpay like NO did for Peja).

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

While I agree with most of your points, I have to slightly disagree with this one:

Brandon Jennings | NBADraft.net

Very hard to gauge Jennings I think. He's had some good games over there, but there are a lot of borderline NBA 3rd stringer-quality PGs playing better than him - though on worse teams. I honestly have no idea how he projects in the NBA based on his performance in Europe.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Very hard to gauge Jennings I think. He's had some good games over there, but there are a lot of borderline NBA 3rd stringer-quality PGs playing better than him - though on worse teams. I honestly have no idea how he projects in the NBA based on his performance in Europe.

totally agree with groundhog here. He doesnt look like much at at all at very moment

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by sooner333

I hear a lot about Rubio too, but don't really know much about his game (other than he looked cool in the Olympics). Is he a true PG type or is he more of the combo guard variety which we don't need as much?

Rubio is definitely a PG, with a very strong handle and court vision. But I believe he is likely to be in the 2010 draft rather than 09 due to his current contract.

When I watch him play Euro ball he doesn't stand out like perhaps you'd expect a high lottery pick with his credentials to stand out, but he shows a few glimpses each game of the sort of moves he'd be able to provide far more frequently in the NBA-style game.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

NBADraft.net has Darren Collison slated as a late first round pick. Any non lottery team that picks him up will have a steal on their hands. Here's my top 10 as of right now:


1.Blake Griffin- Oklahoma
2.Brandon Jennings- Euroleague
3.Al-Farouq Aminu- Wake Forest
4.James Harden- Arizona State
5.Hasheem Thabeet- Connecticut
6.Demar DeRozan- USC
7.Jordan Hill- Arizona
8.Greg Monroe- Georgetown
9.Jeff Teague- Wake Forest
10.Stephen Curry- Davidson

Hasheem Thabeet is weak as hell. Honestly I dont think he is gonna last 2 years in the NBA.

[Groundhog]

Hasheem is better than Roy Hibbert, but I don't ever see his production matching the spot where he'll likely get drafted. With his size and pretty good physical tools he should be a far more consistently dominant player than he is. When he does dominate it has more to do with his size than his raw skills, and I don't think that translates well to the NBA.

If I had a top-10 pick in the draft, my wishlist would be in this order right now:

Blake Griffin
James Harden
Greg Monroe
Jeff Teague
Al-Farouq Aminu
Jordan Hill
Jrue Holiday
Earl Clark
Stephen Curry
Tyreke Evans

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Very hard to gauge Jennings I think. He's had some good games over there, but there are a lot of borderline NBA 3rd stringer-quality PGs playing better than him - though on worse teams. I honestly have no idea how he projects in the NBA based on his performance in Europe.

I'm not too worried about Jennings struggles in Italy. Things are a bit different over there. I really think he has the physical tools to be a Top-10 NBA PG. The question I have is whether he has held up mentally. I would still risk it if I needed a PG.

[sterlingice]

Can we agree that this looks like a pretty weak draft class?

SI

[MrBug708]

Westbrook will fill into the PG role, albeit not in the mold of a Chris Paul PG

[MrBug708]

Dola

Adding James Harden would be a great draft for the Thunder.

Westbrook
Harden
Durant
Green
Chandler

That is a very good core of players

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Can we agree that this looks like a pretty weak draft class?

I think at this stage, yes. Griffin and Harden are the only two guys that look to me like impact NBA guys early on.

[Karlifornia]

Aminu is going to be a beast, I think. Not when you add the "immediate impact" caveat, though.

[Groundhog]

For some reason I'm having real issues embedding this link, but if you're 6'7 and you want to know how to dominate a 7'3 guy, watch this:

YouTube - Blair Ownership of Thabeet

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Youth doesn't win games. They have a great foundation, but I can see some problems.

1) They need a PG. Westbrook isn't a PG, though he can play there in spurts. Unless there is a Deron or CP in this next draft (which there isn't - but there are a few "combo-guards" like Westbrook who will go top-10), they need to look at acquiring a veteran guy here IMO.

2) PG-Westbrook-Durant-Green-Chandler. Who's the odd one out here? I say Green. He is a talented young player, but I don't think he's a PF, not of a winning team. If you can't get Blake Griffin (or maybe Monroe) in the draft, I'm trading Green and a draft pick or two and trying to get my hands on a bigman who can score and play D. With Chandler in the middle he doesn't need to be a big rebounder or shot blocker.

3) A scorer off the bench. Watson, Collison, and Kristic are all pretty good guys to have coming off the bench, but none of them are going to light up the opposition. It should be an easy task to acquire a scorer in the draft. Teague or Harden would fit the bill, but Harden likely won't be around when they pick if the Thunder keep winning games.

4) UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD THE THUNDER DRAFT PROJECT BIGMEN! Stay the hell away from BJ Mullens and Jerome Jordan, if history is anything to go by.

I have to say though, the Thunder are beginning to look like they could be in a position to rebuild Trailblazers style.

I'd dispute 4) - when you have 5 first round picks in 2 years, why not take a shot or two at a prospect? Ideally, you'd package a couple of them to move up, but I don't think it works quite that way often in the NBA. I'm shocked they didn't have to throw in a lower-pick in this draft.

[Groundhog]

Outside the lottery, sure, go nuts with the projects, but I think they need to value their lottery picks more than that.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah. So Rum. You guys lookin good in preseason?

Just being a jackass.


And the injury bug is biting the Cavs hard it seems.

Would really like a 2 guard that won't get hurt for a change. Our top 3 are out.

Heh, missed this last week.

Actually, no, we didn't have a good preseason.

BTW, boo hoo on your injury problems. I'm getting all weepy over here. Camby's out again. Kaman and Taylor are still out. Randolph is probably going to get suspended for trying to slap some Suns player tonight. And over the weekend, we managed to bring over yet another highly-rated but forgotten guard in Acker from Detroit. He join Jason Hart, Mardy Collins, Fred Jones and Steve Novak on our bench.

Thank God for Eric Gordon. At least he makes them watchable.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, so the Carter to the Rockets deals sounded interesting until this. Now the only one that makes sense for the Rockets if the TMac for Vince but there's no way I would do that if I were the Nets. As I told a co-worker at the beginning of the season, "Hey, at least you're not going to rely on hurt, hurt, and crazy to get the job done"

McGrady says he needs surgery, is out for year - ESPN

McGrady says he will have surgery
ESPN.com news services

The season has been a major disappointment for Tracy McGrady and the Houston Rockets. It might have just gotten worse.

The forward told ESPN.com's Stephen A. Smith on Tuesday that his troublesome left knee will end his season and that he will undergo microfracture surgery.

McGrady's name had come up earlier Tuesday in reported trade discussions between the Rockets and New Jersey Nets. The Nets were leery of McGrady's contract and health in discussions involving Nets forward Vince Carter.

McGrady had arthroscopic surgery on the knee last May and has been slow to recover. The seven-time All-Star missed much of January trying to get the knee back in shape and had an MRI last week to try to discover why it was still bothering him.

"The last couple of games, I've regressed," McGrady said during halftime of last Wednesday's game. "I've felt pain."

McGrady's numbers are down across the board this season. He is the Rockets' third-leading scorer at 15.6 points per game and is averaging 4.4 rebounds and 5.0 assists per contest. He is shooting a career-worst 39 percent from the field.

After trading for Ron Artest in the offseason to create a triple threat with McGrady and Yao Ming, the Rockets were expected to challenge for one of the top spots in the Western Conference. But all three players have missed time due to injuries and Houston sits in fifth in the conference, with only two games separating them from the eighth and final spot.

Phoenix Suns forward Amare Stoudemire is an example of the tough road that comes with microfracture surgery. His procedure ultimately cost him all but three games of the 2005-06 season. He returned the next season, however, to play in 82 games and regained his All-Star form.

This is really starting to remind me of 97 or 98- whenever it was the Rockets had Olajuwon, Barkley, and Pippen and they couldn't stay healthy at all. But that was to be expected with 3 guys around 35 years old. There's no excuse for this.

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

TMac is just fragile. It's too bad too, because he was an absolute physical freak. Looks like he's made of glass though.

[Coffee Warlord]

Word is Drew Gooden, Andres Nocioni, Cedric Simmons, and Michael Ruffin to Sacramento for Brad Miller and John Salmons.