We have a NBA RIOT in DETROIT! (The 2004 Palace Fight)

[GoldenEagle]

Do you think you actually proved a point there?

[Masked]

Artest didn't go into the stands looking to defend himself - he was looking for revenge, which makes him just as guilty as the guy who threw the beer in the first place.

[Suicane75]

Both of you stop it right now. This board has never had conflict and we arn't gonna start now.

[DeToxRox]

ron artests mission is accomplished, he's torn FOFC

[Sun Tzu]

What a pathetic culture we live in.

[DeToxRox]

Seeing the replays all over ESPN again, I do have to say Jermaine O'Neal had incredible cheap shot on that guy. Security was about to apprehend him and O'Neal could see this. He came in on an angle that would make it hard to miss and he hauls off and clocks him. That was bad.

Worst scene though, seeing the kid crying while his brother who probably wasn't much older consoled him.

[Pacersfan46]

Originally Posted by ice4277

You probably will end up going to jail, along with the guy throwing the beer on you. I understand the want to get back at the guy, but it doesn't give you a free pass to do what you want.

Actually ... legally it does. Even the cop on sportscenter said it's considered self defense.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Pacersfan46

Actually ... legally it does. Even the cop on sportscenter said it's considered self defense.

thats a cop who said it. find a good lawyer and what he says won't matter. now i don't know much about law, but in my law class in school, we talked about how you have the right to defend yourself within means. in the case of jermaine o'neal, he hit a guy already on the ground with security on him. that is not within means.

but with artest, they have evidence apparently that he hit the wrong guy. so throw self defense out the window, because what exactly was he self defending?

everyone involved in this are idiots. its that simple.

i won't single anyone out anymore. if they were involved, be it players, coaches, fans, they're morons and deserve WHATEVER they get.

[Bomber]

Ben Wallace and the Pistons' fans are completely to blame here. I'm agree with the ESPN guys any player in the league would react the way Artest did after being hit in the head. If the NBA really wanted justice Ben Wallace would be suspended and the Pistons' fans would be banned from the stadium for a week.

[RGunner]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Seeing the replays all over ESPN again, I do have to say Jermaine O'Neal had incredible cheap shot on that guy. Security was about to apprehend him and O'Neal could see this. He came in on an angle that would make it hard to miss and he hauls off and clocks him. That was bad.

Worst scene though, seeing the kid crying while his brother who probably wasn't much older consoled him.

The worst thing is though, the huge guy that attacked Fred Jones looked like it was the little kid's dad because when hes crying you see the big guy coming right next to them and talking to people around them. Yea everything is bad when you go into the stands, but I hate to say it but when Artest hit that guy on the court and then O'neal hit the guy, i laughed pretty hard. Honestly, what kind of common sense does that guy have to start shit with a 6'5 250 pound guy that could beat the shit out of you in a heartbeat? You have to be completely drunk off your ass or completely braindead to do something that stupid when you know he is pissed off and will hit you. Common sense is a wonderful thing to have, and this guy had none whatsoever.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Bomber

Ben Wallace and the Pistons' fans are completely to blame here. I'm agree with the ESPN guys any player in the league would react the way Artest did after being hit in the head. If the NBA really wanted justice Ben Wallace would be suspended and the Pistons' fans would be banned from the stadium for a week.

How many times have you seen players in the NBA do something like that, or throw a punch, and it stopped shortly after. I am guessing a lot.

What the fans did after was totally unforseeable.

And to say no blame is on Indiana is also a joke. Why do you think in a war we don't just send in one guy at a time to take on an entire army, because they'd get slaughtered. So why should one guy go into the crowd, swinging at everything he sees, not even getting the person he's after, and not bare any of the blame?

Granted the guy he hit was looking to be talking shit, but he didn't throw the bottle. So if that was you, you'd tell me that "eh, Ben Wallace is to blame. Don't worry about it Ron."

I highly doubt it.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RGunner

The worst thing is though, the huge guy that attacked Fred Jones looked like it was the little kid's dad because when hes crying you see the big guy coming right next to them and talking to people around them. Yea everything is bad when you go into the stands, but I hate to say it but when Artest hit that guy on the court and then O'neal hit the guy, i laughed pretty hard. Honestly, what kind of common sense does that guy have to start shit with a 6'5 250 pound guy that could beat the shit out of you in a heartbeat? You have to be completely drunk off your ass or completely braindead to do something that stupid when you know he is pissed off and will hit you. Common sense is a wonderful thing to have, and this guy had none whatsoever.

I agree the first time he got it I chuckled because he deserved it. But points proven. Now he's on the ground, security is around him and O'Neil just coldcocks him. That's uneeded and unessecary.

[Chief Rum]

Theiy're showing the game replay on ESPN late night. Watching it right now. This should be fun (I missed it when it actually happened).

CR

[RGunner]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

I agree the first time he got it I chuckled because he deserved it. But points proven. Now he's on the ground, security is around him and O'Neil just coldcocks him. That's uneeded and unessecary.

Definitely unnecessary. But why go on the court, thats the stupidest thing you can do in the middle of a fight, especialy with Artest who you know will hit you if you talk shit to him. That guy got what he deserved from Artest for sure, and JO just got in a good shot for good measure, to keep him down. Stupid, stupid fan. Stupid, stupid players.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Nice job ESPN - way to lay ZERO blame on the players involved. The fans who participated in throwing stuff or worse going onto the floor deserve to be held responsible for their actions but so do the players - even if they do have all this built up aggression from their stressful lives and jobs

Hey, you try living with the stress of paying $356,000 per week in child support to 12 different women for 10 kids... That, is stess that would build some aggression!!!

[rexallllsc]

The Pistons sure do have classy fans...They should've just let Artest run wild in there. Those fans deserved beatings. Especially the ones who ran onto the floor.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

You don't assault someone cause your "pissed," period. That isn't self defense. You can't tell me that Artest went through the stands out of fear for his own safety.

The thing is, these are guys out there who are pumped up, full of adrenaline, and competing like crazy. And you expect them to make sound, rational decisions?

Whatever. Those fans were a compelte disgrace. Give Artest 15-20 games, O'Neal 15 games, Jackson 15 games, Wallace 2 games, and be done with it.

Prosecute as many of the fans that can be identified as possible.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I stand corrected, it was O'Neil who got his ass whipped by the short white fat guy. Artest has a law suit coming.

ESPN - "Blame this one on the fans"

O'Neal rocked the guy. Good on him. Artest rocked the guy. Good on him.

ESPN is right.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, among other things, it raises serious questions about the people that are being credentialed. (The most notable one is the large guy in the gray sweatshirt that sucker punches Artest near the aisle)

edit to correct: The victim of the sucker punch was Jones, not Artest.

That was bad...Jones wasn't even doing anything. Detroit's org. has somne issues. From the CEO to the fans.

[mattwakeman]

Does this mean that you will all stop calling British footy fans hooligans now??

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Pacersfan46

Actually ... legally it does. Even the cop on sportscenter said it's considered self defense.

The police offer said self defense was allowed saying that someone throwing a chair is self defense, I don't remember hearing him say attacking someone who threw a cup of beer qualified, much less attacking a random fan in the stands.

[sterlingice]

Obviously this is complex to start with the issue of "how much does a player have the right to defend himself". In an attempt to lighten things up, anyone else surprised 'sheed was actually trying to break up the fight and not start one of his own?

If you think he has no right to defend himself, then what's Artest supposed to do when he's trying to cool down over there on the table while a fight is breaking out and, as can clearly be seen- there is no security in that part of the court. If there was enough security over there to deter these jackasses in the crowd, this never would have happened. It's one thing to not react to a fan saying something but clearly these guys were assaulted.

It gets even moreso because clearly every fan out there was viewing this as their chance at a giant paycheck from the NBA. I know some people don't care about that aspect, but, really, can't intent be taken into account here.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

No matter what player did what tonight, hell, no matter what fan did what, I believe the largest burden belongs on the NBA (it's their incident, they take the beating tonight, but I don't believe any league is particularly innocent).

Move the fans away from the fucking court, stop turning arenas into bars, put adequate & ample security in every arena ... or expect to see this sort of thing become commonplace.

Personally, I hate nets at baseball games to protect fans from foul balls (not that I ever get to sit down low except the time we won the seat upgrade contest). Given the choice, I'll take the risk of getting clocked in the head with a foul ball for a better view of the game. Clearly others don't feel that way and, of course, have sued so my view is obstructed. Who's rights are being infringed on?

Back to the above, I've mentioned that security is culpable. These things also contribute to it (too much beer, fans too close, etc). But at what point do you draw the line? Does everyone have to be 5' away from the court? 10' away? At what point are you risking the livelihood of the business you are trying to "protect" with these rules? And, really, if these fans were acting as they should have- none of this would have happened so why should the association be held accountable for a role that, at its worst, was enabler and at best, was beseiged by an unpredictable event.

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

What I'm not enjoying is the ESPN commentators talking about how the fans should be thrown in jail and how the players have so much pent up rage and aggression hearing taunts from the fans....what a bunch of crap. Yeah, the guy who works on the assembly line 50 hours a week doing the same thing over and over...no way he has any pent up aggression. Only these NBA players who make millions playing a game are the ones frustrated because some jackass in the fifth row says his momma is fat.

Nice job ESPN - way to lay ZERO blame on the players involved. The fans who participated in throwing stuff or worse going onto the floor deserve to be held responsible for their actions but so do the players - even if they do have all this built up aggression from their stressful lives and jobs

Ok, that's certainly a lot of horse crap. Too much stress and whatnot is just a giant pile of crap cover. But, as I stated before, at what point do the players have a right to defend themselves? Over half of the people on the ESPN poll said "Artest should have let security handle it". Well, clearly they had done such a great job so far- after all, the field wasn't littered with fans and garbage and the crowd control had been well done. Wait, no it wasn't. But going back to the above, it's not like the Pistons can afford to have a security guard for each seat or even each 20 people- that's just not feasable so what's the answer.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Very interesting ... Jim Grey noting that at least one or two of the fans involved as combatants were wearing credentials.

Has there been anything more on this or it is just Jim Grey blowing smoke up people's arses again? If there's any validity to this, credentialed guy needs to have them revoked and be looking for a new job. Guess it gives a whole new meaning to "being part of the story".

Originally Posted by cartman

keep throwing beer, yes.

But by all accounts, this was the first beer thrown, and Artest just goes after the 1st fan that stands in front of him.

If it's only a beer, you let the local law enforcement make the first move.

A lot of people are breaking this down to "what if beer was thrown at you" and falling on the two sides of that. Near as I can tell, beer's never killed a person by being splashed on them. But when blunt objects (bottles, clothing, chairs) start flying, these can actually cause serious injury and there were few officers around to stop it. In my minds, that's where it crossed from the typical "you'd better sit your ass down on the bench" to "doesn't a player have a right to defend himself because security isn't doing a thing". Clearly others disagree.

A few other things:

* Nothing like Sportscenter trying to score some cheap points with the "but the clear losers were the young fans". Yes, why doesn't someone think of the children. Now lets all sing kumbaya with Dr Phil and Oprah, you asshats. Someone give me back Keith and Dan or even someone like Charlie Steiner who was more interested in reporting sports and not the load of crap SC has become.

* There was an incident on the court where two fans approached one of the Pacers (I forget who, Artest, I think) and he just clocks one of them. Any legal experts here who can do more than speculate on the legality of that. Considering the incident already (basically, a melee situation) and the fact that these guys were looking like they were going to start something, can this still be considered self defense?

* What's really going to make me sick about this whole matter is that someone is coming out of it with a paycheck. Now, I'm sure there were some victims here, but anyone who was provoking anything should be sent home without a dime, whether they were taunting or throwing stuff. You allow someone who was taunting in the middle of a brawl to get off because he was less culpable and you send an even worse message for the future: "Just dare your drunken buddy to start a fight and then it's jackpot time for you two".

* I saw the end of the replay of the game after I ran out of Futurama DVD to watch last night and I couldn't help but laugh at Bill Walton saying "And Artest has played a smart, controlled game so far" with about 2 minutes left to go. He's up there on my Mount Rushmore of "Announcers who make up for being dumb by being loud" with John Madden, Dick Vitale, and a yet to be determined fourth.

* I feel very dirty in that I agree about 90% with what JiMGA was saying here right down to the "I really dislike NBA players these days but I feel they were mostly in the clear for the incident in the stands (what they did on the court, well, the league will deal with that accordingly). Eww...

Maybe I'll feel differently tomorrow (i.e. today, but it's not tomorrow until I've gotten some sleep) but right now, this is almost completely on the fans in my mind.

SI

[Pacersfan46]

I don't know where you guys keep getting the idea that Artest attacked the wrong man. I've watched Sportscenter 2 times, and they haven't mentioned it once.

Neither has any of the local news stations.

[CraigSca]

Soo...you think the NBA will move seats back in the arenas and risk alienating the fans who purchase the most expensive seats in the house?

[Blackadar]

For what it's worth, here's my take:

1. Wallace clearly overreacted to what was a borderline hard foul/cheap shot.
2. Artest was being a ham/jackass (some of both) on the scorers bench.
3. Artest had no justification for going into the stands. He's a professional basketball player. I understand how it happens but if a football player went into the stands ever time they had a beer poured on them, they're be a riot at every Ravens and Raiders game. As an athlete, you are taught and have to learn to ignore it. And what you can't ignore, you ask security to handle. That's your JOB.
4. Stephen Jackson has even less justification for his actions. He should probably be sued and rightfully so.
5. Artest is moderately justified in throwing the punch at the guy on the court. However, I don't think you can definitely say that he was being attacked or was in danger. Those particular fans shouldn't be on the court, but it was Artest who threw the first punch.
6. I think there is some justification for Artest also being sued as it created an atmosphere were bystanders could have been caught in the middle and hurt.
7. After watching the tape, I could see where a fan would flee to the general safety of the court and out of the stands.

As far as I'm concerned, Wallace needs to be suspended for 3-5 games.
Artest and Jackson should have criminal charges brought against them.
Artest and Jackson should be suspended for 10+ games.
Some Detroit fans should also be charged and arrested.
Those same Detriot fans should have their ticket privledges revoked (those look like season ticket seats).

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Pacersfan46

I don't know where you guys keep getting the idea that Artest attacked the wrong man. I've watched Sportscenter 2 times, and they haven't mentioned it once.

I said random fan because from the look of things, Artest really couldn't tell who threw the cup of beer. He didn't react until it hit him or just before it hit him, meaning he didn't see it coming at him, making it nearly impossible to tell who had thrown it.

[wbatl1]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

I agree the first time he got it I chuckled because he deserved it. But points proven. Now he's on the ground, security is around him and O'Neil just coldcocks him. That's uneeded and unessecary.

To play devils advocate... the man was on the court, and when the emotions were high, it is probably next to impossible fo O'Neal to not defend his court and his team, ect. The guys on ESPN were saying that anyone on the court deserved what they got, because that is totally wrong. That is a case where a fan physically comes after a player. Unacceptable. Also, the security had been shown to be very weak in resolve and strength throughout the fight.(the blue shirted security, the police were all right).

[Pumpy Tudors]

I work for a ship supply company that has 90% foreign clients, and I regularly see strange requests from ships for various items. Back in May, the captain of a vessel sent us an e-mail requesting some movies. The first one on the list was "NBA Boxing." I don't know what we supplied to the man, but after seeing the video from last night, I'm tempted to send him an e-mail today saying, "Boy, have I got some NBA boxing for you!"

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Artest needs professional help

Agreed.

Does any of this happen if he isn't lying down on the fucking scores table like a kid with ADD?

WTF?

[EagleFan]

Wow, that was a complete mess. Ben Wallace was an ass for starting the whole thing but Artest and company should have never gone into the stands. Hell, Artest punched the first person that he encountered, and that person didn't even throw the cup (check out the trajectory on the cup when it hit him, there's no way it was thrown from where that person was). Granted, that fan looked like he was talking it up big time, but that is not justification for attacking him.

Wallace needs about a 5 game suspension.
Jackson should get about 10.
Artest, he needs to be sent packing until he gets some serious psychological help.
Detroit should get a bit of punishment Italian soccer style. Maybe 1 or 2 home games played behind closed doors should do it.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Agreed.

Does any of this happen if he isn't lying down on the fucking scores table like a kid with ADD?

WTF?

Agreed, but take it back a step further. Does any of this happen if Ben Wallace doesn't over-react like some 2 year old who just got his favorite toy taken from him?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Agreed, but take it back a step further. Does any of this happen if Ben Wallace doesn't over-react like some 2 year old who just got his favorite toy taken from him?

He overreacted, but the foul was a 100% cheap shot, no doubt about it. Still, that's at least something taking place on the court.

Artest acting like an ass and giving the fans a target escalated the whole situation.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Agreed, but take it back a step further. Does any of this happen if Ben Wallace doesn't over-react like some 2 year old who just got his favorite toy taken from him?

I don't think it matters. Ben Wallace was an ass, but it didn't force Artest to go into the stands. As I said before, everyone is wrong here - the fans, the Pacers players, the Pistons players, security...everyone.

[cthomer5000]

Jermaine O'Neal should be rightfully sued for the sucker punch on the fat guy. That was nothing but a cheap shot.

[Easy Mac]

Good for Artest... do I think he should be suspended? Yes. DO I think he should be in jail? Yes. DO I think I would have done the same thing he did? IN a heart beat. If someone is going to be a pussy and throw a beer at me because he thinks I can't hit him, I'm going to beat the living shit out of him. If someone is laughing and I have reason to believe he threw it, he's dead. Period. It doesn't make what Artest did right, and he should be punished for it. But to think anyone wouldn't have done the same is idiotic. The fans think they have a right to do whatever they want with no fear of reprocussions... I have no problem with them being shown their place.

I say Artest for 30 games.
Jackson for 20 (he may have protected Artest, but even so)
O'Neal for 40 (his was the worst of them all, completely unprovoked).
It looked like a Pacers assistant was punching the fat guy while he was on the ground, so fire him.
Wallace for 15 (he is the reason it escalated at all, make it a point that you can't do what he did without consequences.)

[miami_fan]

A few observations:
1. It was a hard foul. Not cheap IMO but very unecessary given the score and thime remaining.

2. Wallace overreacted big time. With all the calls for players to control thier emotions and to act in a civilized manner, the FIRST person who should have done that was Wallace.

3. Artest was calm before the first beer was thrown from the stands. I don't care if he was lounging on the scorer's table, in the middle of the court, or wherever he was no longer an active participant in the problem at that point.

4. I am still trying to figure out why so many of people seemed to feel like it was okay for the fan a beer at Artest. Artest is a jerk. His history has been well chronicled butdoes not give a fan the right to throw objects on the court or at the player. If the beer does not get thrown from the stands, the WHOLE incident does not happpen. This is not cute anymore (if it ever was). It is not funny. The throwing of beer, batteries, etc is asinine

[Cards4ever]

Pretty disgusting display there. I think Detroit should not be allowed to sell alcohol for a few games along with the appropriate suspensions for the players.

I've said it several times, and will say it again, fans belong in the stands, players belong on the field(court) and unless your life is in danger, you don't go into the stands.

[govols]

I just have to way in on what is one of the worst moments in sports that I can remember.

First, Everyone involved in this is somewhat at fault. However, if one player and that is Artest shows some restraint none of this happens. What should happen... First the police should identify and charge as many fans as possible with insighting a riot or what ever charges they can find. However, the players involed also should be charged. This act goes off the court and should be handled just as if happened on the streets. The players should not be above the law here.

What should happen as far as the NBA? My thoughts would be that Artest and the second player (can't remember who) into the stands who started throwing punches should be suspended for 1 year at least. Artest might should be out for good since this is not his first problems in the NBA. Other player should be reviewed as well. Some looked like in the video that they were in the stands trying to break up the fights. Those players should not be suspended long if at all. I would need to look closer at the video to make a judgement on that one.

For those of you that are going to think that is long. Think about it this way, if you were on the job and your job involved working with the public and you had an incident where someone threw a beer at you. Try throwing a punch and see how quickly you are fired from your job.

ESPN is saying that any player would do the same thing and I tend to agree. I would probably do the same thing in the moment as well. If someone throws a beer in my face I am probably going to come up punching. However, does that make it right ? No... I would be just as wrong in that case as Artest is here. I would have to pay for my actions and I think the players involved here should too.

[TroyF]

I think a lot of people are letting Wallace off lightly on this one.

Artest gave him a hard foul. Maybe unnecessary, but there was a clear overreaction on his part. The cheap shot he gave Artest was uncalled for. Artest walked away and the players broke it up. If Wallace exits stage left right then and there, this thing probably comes to an end.

Instead he continues to go after Artest. He refuses to be restrained by his coaches or his teammates. Then he fires a towel or a headband at Artest while Artest was laying on the table. The cup of beer was thrown very shortly after Wallace made that move and I don't think that was a coincedence.

After that, adrenaline took over. Once Artest was hit with a face full of beer, there was no way this was going to end pretty. A fan has no right to do that in any circumstance. It's easy to sit here and say "that was just a beer, he should walk away", but if you were a player in that position, or his teammate, what would you be thinking?

Fans coming up within ten feet of you throwing beer. . . are you supposed to believe that's where it will end. And then after you've been in an altercation, to see fans walking toward you talking smack, what exactly should your reaction be? O'Neal gave the guy a cheap shot, but in his mind all he saw at the time was Artest and the fan in a fight and Artest going backwards. Again, it's easy to sit here and say "well, the guy was on the ground, security is close, it's over" It's another thing to have adrenaline rushing through your body, not have a perfect angle to what was going on and have to make a decision.

At the end of the day, Detroit and their fans are to blame for this. Wallace deserves a major suspension not only for starting it, but also fot helping fan the flames for as long as he did. Artest, O'Neal and Jackson deserve ten games or so for their parts. The Pistons organization deserves a MAJOR fine for the lack of security and the lack of the PA making timely announcements for it all to stop.

And while Artest is psychotic most of the time, his reaction was what it should have been IMO.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by govols

I just have to way in on what is one of the worst moments in sports that I can remember.

First, Everyone involved in this is somewhat at fault. However, if one player and that is Artest shows some restraint none of this happens. What should happen... First the police should identify and charge as many fans as possible with insighting a riot or what ever charges they can find. However, the players involed also should be charged. This act goes off the court and should be handled just as if happened on the streets. The players should not be above the law here.

What should happen as far as the NBA? My thoughts would be that Artest and the second player (can't remember who) into the stands who started throwing punches should be suspended for 1 year at least. Artest might should be out for good since this is not his first problems in the NBA. Other player should be reviewed as well. Some looked like in the video that they were in the stands trying to break up the fights. Those players should not be suspended long if at all. I would need to look closer at the video to make a judgement on that one.

For those of you that are going to think that is long. Think about it this way, if you were on the job and your job involved working with the public and you had an incident where someone threw a beer at you. Try throwing a punch and see how quickly you are fired from your job.

ESPN is saying that any player would do the same thing and I tend to agree. I would probably do the same thing in the moment as well. If someone throws a beer in my face I am probably going to come up punching. However, does that make it right ? No... I would be just as wrong in that case as Artest is here. I would have to pay for my actions and I think the players involved here should too.

There is no way the Pacers players should be suspended for one year. No freakin way in hell. You admit you'd react the same way. 95% of us would. It's wrong, fine. Suspend em for ten to fifteen games. But don't get all holy and mighty talking about year long suspensions that aren't deserved.

And I agree with you. I think if one player shows restraint none of this ever happens. Only difference is I think the player was Wallace, not Artest. Again, not only for Wallace starting the incident, but for him staying on the court and throwing things himself.

[Easy Mac]

Does anyone else feel for Freddie Jones?

He shouldn't have gone into the stands, but he was standing there, and once Artest getting punched from behind, he tried to reach over a coach and pull the fan away. Then a 300 pound guy (at least) just starts pummeling JOnes from behind. I mean, the guy was at least twice his size.

[JonInMiddleGA]

With the benefit of a night's sleep & plenty of reflection, there's one thing that really stands out in my mind right now ... the NBA will apparently do anything to focus attention away from the Shaq v Kobe matchup next month.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

With the benefit of a night's sleep & plenty of reflection, there's one thing that really stands out in my mind right now ... the NBA will apparently do anything to focus attention away from the Shaq v Kobe matchup next month.

Oh yeah they are playing a little game that day too aren't they

[govols]

Originally Posted by TroyF

There is no way the Pacers players should be suspended for one year. No freakin way in hell. You admit you'd react the same way. 95% of us would. It's wrong, fine. Suspend em for ten to fifteen games. But don't get all holy and mighty talking about year long suspensions that aren't deserved.

And I agree with you. I think if one player shows restraint none of this ever happens. Only difference is I think the player was Wallace, not Artest. Again, not only for Wallace starting the incident, but for him staying on the court and throwing things himself.

As far the the year long suspension, I would hit them hard on this one just to let players know that they better think before they do something like this. Fifteen games as this point in the season is just a vacation.

My thought on Wallace are this. Yes, he started a fight on the court. However, things that happen on the court should be handled differently. For the incident on the court Wallace should get a suspension. However, as far as I am concerned these are two separate incidents. The fight on the court was over. The fight that was started in the stands was all on Artest.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If you think he has no right to defend himself, then what's Artest supposed to do when he's trying to cool down over there on the table while a fight is breaking out and, as can clearly be seen- there is no security in that part of the court. If there was enough security over there to deter these jackasses in the crowd, this never would have happened. It's one thing to not react to a fan saying something but clearly these guys were assaulted.

I'm going to agree heavily with the points about security being made. The courts will focus heavily on fan/player culpability, but in my mind the main lawsuit in this should be against the arena. Players/fans need suspensions and possible jail time, but financial responsibility belongs with the arena and whoever owns it. The replay I saw last night showed very little security until the stands brawl got into full swing. Security should have been courtside as soon as Wallace refused to let the oncourt incident die down. Artest should have been trying to leap through a wall of security to try and get into the stands. This was a complete breakdown of the security staff, plain and simple. It's their job to deal with and break these kinds of things up. Heck, even New York was smart enough to have riot police on hand and close to the field during the ALCS, and that's WITH a wall between the fans and the players.

Why were there still fans around the entrance to the visitor's locker room as the Pacers tried to exit the court?

The big question in my mind: incompetent security or insufficient security? Did they have enough people on hand to deal with a large fight, or did they just botch it and not react fast enough?

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by RGunner

The worst thing is though, the huge guy that attacked Fred Jones looked like it was the little kid's dad because when hes crying you see the big guy coming right next to them and talking to people around them.

I thought this too but it looks like the guy who attacked Fred Jones was wearing a tie, the guy with the kids was wearing a similar color shirt with some sort of logo on it. I might be wrong though.

[DeToxRox]

one more thing i pondered..

for anyone who says they'd go into the crowd..

you're telling me that if someone threw something at you trying to provoke you, and you knew there were (lets scale the number down to the amount of people in that are) 300 of them, and just you and 10 other guys. you're honestly telling me you're going to run into the crowd and fight?

yes, the people who provoke you are pussys and assholes, and yes you ought to be pissed. but if you get so pissed that you throw all logical thinking out the window, you have some severe pyschological issues. you know what, it happened. it happened in the NFL and i didn't see any Jag players run into the stand, they all got off of the field, and these are much bigger guys, with lots of equipment, and they left the field.

it was just ugly. everyone is at fault involved and everyone deserves what they get.

[Balldog]

I must admit I was impressed by Rasheed Wallace, he was trying to stop everything when it was on the court and in the crowd. Where was everyone else?

[DeToxRox]

lol. the morning after speculation is unreal. i doubt this is true at all but i felt i might as well throw it out there because you never know, it could make national headlines.

i heard that people are saying now that the guy on the floor was from the make a wish foundation or some such group, and that he was mentally challenged.

again, i honestly doubt the validity of this story, but after what actually did happen last night, anythings possible.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Balldog

I must admit I was impressed by Rasheed Wallace, he was trying to stop everything when it was on the court and in the crowd. Where was everyone else?

I bet he was remembering that game in Portland very vividly.