Baseball Offseason 2004-5 Thread

[Z²+]

The Pirates are on the verge of signing Methuselah. Err, I mean Benito Santiago.

The implications are staggering. All other conversation really seems irrelevant.

[korme]

Reds get Ramon Ortiz, Angels get prospect Dustin Moseley.

..woo...Reds...killer moves..

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Z²+

The Pirates are on the verge of signing Methuselah. Err, I mean Benito Santiago.

The implications are staggering. All other conversation really seems irrelevant.

Benito Steroidiago?

[Ragone]

When you are forced to sign a player even Kansas city didn't want.. its a bad sign

[Alan T]

But the question is.. where is Jessie Orosco playing next year?

[Arles]

ESPN is reporting in their rumors section that it's a done deal and Renteria is choosing to return to St. Louis for slightly less money:

"According to a source close to the situation, shortsop Edgar Renteria will be returning to the Cardinals in 2005 - and the deciding issue was not money. Even though the Red Sox offer (about $36 million over four years) trumped St. Louis' reported final offer ($32 million over four years), Renteria chose familiarity and comfort with his surroundings - teammates, coaches, medical staff - over a few million dollars."

If this is true, it looks like a good deal for St. Louis considering the $8 mil a year is a raise of only 750K over what he made in 2004 ($7.25 mil).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Z²+

The Pirates are on the verge of signing Methuselah. Err, I mean Benito Santiago.

The implications are staggering. All other conversation really seems irrelevant.

That's actually a trade. And, iirc, the official trade is Benny for a bag of baseballs and another bag to be named later.

SI

[sterlingice]

Wait? So, a Richie Sexson coming off an injury is worth $11M? So does that make Delgado, coming off an "off year" at .907 OPS $14M?

I swear, fiscal sanity went right out the window this offseason...

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Bomber

Renteria to the Sox for 4 years 40 million.

You know, because when you're making $32M a year and comfortable, an extra $4M isn't worth leaving for a baseball player's hell (in the sense of dealing with the media) but an extra $8M is. *sigh*

SI

[Bomber]

Renteria to the Sox for 4 years 40 million.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I feel a lot better about the Pirates' long-term stability at catcher now that we got rid of Jason Kendall and picked up Benito Santiago. And the money we saved from Kendall's contract allowed us to spend $7.25M per season for two more years on Matt Lawton, so it has been an all around dominating off season for the Pirates.

So, uh, how's Operation Shutdown? Is he off the books finally?

SI

[Swaggs]

I feel a lot better about the Pirates' long-term stability at catcher now that we got rid of Jason Kendall and picked up Benito Santiago. And the money we saved from Kendall's contract allowed us to spend $7.25M per season for two more years on Matt Lawton, so it has been an all around dominating off season for the Pirates.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Bomber

Renteria to the Sox for 4 years 40 million.

*insert explitive of your choice here*

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

*insert explitive of your choice here*

I second this.

[MikeVic]

I've heard the Jays thinking about moving Hinske, I just don't know how they can get a better bat without giving up something I don't want them to give up.

And I hope they get Clement. And bullpen help.

[Cards4ever]

Big loss with Renteria. Hopefully this means they can get a good defensive SS and a good starter with the cash that they left on the table.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Cards4ever

Big loss with Renteria. Hopefully this means they can get a good defensive SS and a good starter with the cash that they left on the table.

Jocketty is going to have to get busy, as we're down an All-Star SS, a Gold Glove catcher, have a big hole at 2B and are still lacking an anchor for the rotation. He always seems to come through though, so I can't wait to see how he handles all of this.

[Bomber]

They aren't going to save too much money with Cabrera. He wants 7-8 Million a year.

[Cards4ever]

Molina will be fine as the catcher, and they added Diaz, so, I think they are ok there. Having the middle infield tore up is another story along with the pitching.

[Arles]

My guess is the Cards will sign Polanco to play 2B and go after Barry Larkin or Julio Lugo at SS if Cabrera still wants the moon. The problem with Cabrera is that all the people with cash (Boston, NYY, Cubs) are set at SS. The only other suitor would be the Mariners, who are trying to spend big money on Sexson, Beltre and/or Delgado. Not to mention they are in the sweepstakes for one of the top pitchers. The longer Cabrera waits, the cheaper he will be as fewer teams will be interested in paying $7-8 mil a year for a SS.

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by Bomber

Renteria to the Sox for 4 years 40 million.

Best news I have seen all day! I love Renteria, but I am Cubs fan. I wanted the Cubs to pick him up this offseason, but since they didn't I am glad the Cardinals didn't get him.

[Arles]

I think the morale here is when you target FAs to sign/resign, make darn well sure no one from New York or Boston will enter the bidding

[ISiddiqui]

I think the other moral here is to lock up your stars during the season BEFORE they hit Free Agency .

[Cards4ever]

Yeah, and of course the Cards could have signed him to a big contract, blow their budget and then see him blow out his back and not perform as expected. Then fans would have pointed to the Cardinals and said, see, they aren't fiscally responsible, look at them just throwing money away.

[Desnudo]

The big question now for the Red Sox is should they trade Hanley Ramirez for pitching? I'd love to see him stay, maybe converted to second base, that would be a great infield. But if they can use him to get Tim Hudson, well...

[WSUCougar]

*sigh*

It's not just the on-the-field value of Renteria and Matheny, it's their leadership. Those two guys were two clubhouse anchors. Major losses...

[sterlingice]

OAKLAND, Calif. -- The Milwaukee Brewers traded infielder Keith Ginter to the Oakland Athletics on Wednesday for right-hander Justin Lehr and minor league outfielder Nelson Cruz.

So, uh, who again is our Brewers beat reporter here? Uh, yeah... so, anyways
Ginter had a pretty decent year last year: 19 homers out of a utility guy who's only 28 and I can't think he costs a whole lot. So why did the Brewers deal him? To A's fans, is there anything special about Lehr or Cruz that makes this deal make sense to Milwaukee?

SI

[DeToxRox]

I dunno how true this is, but apparently the Tigers have a 5 year/50 mil contract on the table with JD Drew.

I am not pleased hearing this if true.

I love JD Drew, and if this were a 3 year deal, I don't think it'll be THAT bad. But five years is a lot to ask from him. Hopefully it has incentives for games and such, but I dunno.

That said, if he's healthy over those 5 years, it's gonna be a lot of his prime, so it could pan out exceptionally well.

We will just have to see.

[TazFTW]

Adrian Beltre has apparently signed a 5 year deal with the Mariners.


[edit]Ken Rosenthal of the Sporting News says it is a 5 year deal worth $64 million.

[korme]

Drew to the Dodgers 5 yr/55 or 65 mil

Reds got Ben Weber, now Angels fans, do you think he can return to his dominant style or what? He had carpal tunnel most all of last year.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Drew to the Dodgers 5 yr/55 or 65 mil

Reds got Ben Weber, now Angels fans, do you think he can return to his dominant style or what? He had carpal tunnel most all of last year.

"now Angels fans"...guess that's me.

Seriously, Shorty, I don't have a clue how he'll do. He went into last season as one of our stalwarts in the pen. When he went down, we were fortunate in that Scot Shields and Kevin Gregg were able to pick up the slack for him and for Brendan Donnelly (who also was pretty much out or hindered for most of the first half of last season).

I always liked Weber. A bit of a quirky player (check out them goggles ), he isn't a burner. Does the fact he relies more on breaking pitches--and the twist of his wrist--mean that his injury could have a bad effect on him? I hope not.

It's a risk, but I think it's a good one. Weber has overcome long odds before, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he did here, too.

CR

[Bad-example]

Were I a dodger fan...and I am very glad I am not...I would not be happy right now. Depodesta has made some pretty questionable moves.

He allowed Jose Lima to return to the Royals this weekend. He was not expensive...why let him bolt without a fight?

He refused to spend to keep Beltre...then takes those dollars and buys an outfielder with a poor track record of staying healthy.

Failed to offer Finley arbitration, which means he didn't get any draft pick compensation when he signed elsewhere.

Nearly got hosed in a huge trade...got cold feet and changed his mind, damaging his reputation as far as future trades are concerned.

He still hasn't found a decent catcher or 1b and his starting rotation looks pretty thin as it stands.

The dodgers are weaker defensively and offensively than last year as it stands, and they look to need a couple starting pitchers in a market where few good ones are left. Ok, sure, I am a Giants fan and my perspective is surely biased, but aren't the dodgers starting to look a lot like a 3rd place team?

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Bad-example

He allowed Jose Lima to return to the Royals this weekend. He was not expensive...why let him bolt without a fight?

Given that he only got one year from KC, this does not make sense to me either. Unless he was guaranteed far more than reasonable. But, then, given that it is KC, that seems fairly unlikely.

Originally Posted by Bad-example

He refused to spend to keep Beltre...then takes those dollars and buys an outfielder with a poor track record of staying healthy.

Eh, I don't know that Beltre was worth keeping at that level of contract. I would have rather seen him make a move to chase Koskie. Spending the money on Drew, however, seems iffy to me as well because of that almighty "IF".

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Failed to offer Finley arbitration, which means he didn't get any draft pick compensation when he signed elsewhere.

That seems a really dumb move, given that Finley was really unlikely to accept it.

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Nearly got hosed in a huge trade...got cold feet and changed his mind, damaging his reputation as far as future trades are concerned.

Eh, I don't really feel like he hurt himself terribly much to anyone other than the Yankees. The part that hurt the most was probably the fact that he even considered it in the first place.

Originally Posted by Bad-example

He still hasn't found a decent catcher or 1b and his starting rotation looks pretty thin as it stands.

That annoys me, too. Although, it would be fairly insulting to thin to compare it to the Dodgers' current rotation.

Originally Posted by Bad-example

The dodgers are weaker defensively and offensively than last year as it stands, and they look to need a couple starting pitchers in a market where few good ones are left.

Infield defense is certainly weaker but outfield defense has not been hurt, in my opinion. The offense seens really, really iffy right now.

Originally Posted by Bad-example

Ok, sure, I am a Giants fan and my perspective is surely biased, but aren't the dodgers starting to look a lot like a 3rd place team?

3rd place might begin to seem generous real soon.

[Bearcat729]

The Reds signed Eric Milton today. Looks like they are actually trying to get better this season.

[Bomber]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

The Reds signed Eric Milton today. Looks like they are actually trying to get better this season.

Just so you know, Eric Milton sucks.

[Bomber]

3 years, $25.5 million for a guy who has never even had one good year. Yankees fans everywhere thank you Cincinnati.

[Bad-example]

Taking a look at how the Padres are shaping up...

The starting rotation took a hit with the departure of David Wells. New faces include Woody Williams, who signed for a pretty reasonable price, and Darrell May in a trade from Kansas City. With the continued development of the younger starters there is still a lot of talent here.

The bullpen is a bit weaker with Antonio Osuna departing. Have they added any relievers to date?

As far as the lineup goes, they look to be at least good. If Nevin can stay healthy he should do well with Klesko, Giles, Loretta, Burroughs and Greene to keep him company. The addition of Dave Roberts could be huge. I like the Padres to be stronger offensively in '05.

Defensively, Greene is sometimes spectacular and Roberts is a nice upgrade in CF. They could be better than last year with the glove.

Overall, a bit of a mixed bag this off season, but my feeling is they can expect to compete for the division title again and should probably be considered at least co-favorites for the top spot. If the bullpen is anywhere near as strong as last year, they could be very dangerous.

[korme]

Reds sign Joe Randa, and Eric Milton.

Atleast we are making moves, god damn, and ESPN says we also 'upgraded' our bullpen by getting ex-Reds David Weathers and Kent Mercker, really, I think that just means we filled our 'pen, no upgrades there.

Anyways, I'm glad we are doing something, but 25 mil for Milton seems a little high, and I'd have liked to see us move Kearns to 3B so Pena would be a full time starter. He had such a great season filling in, it's almost not right having him sit pine, and I don't want to hear any jokes about how Griffey will surely get hurt so he can play.

/rant

[korme]

COOL MAN!

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

Reds sign Joe Randa, and Eric Milton.

Atleast we are making moves, god damn, and ESPN says we also 'upgraded' our bullpen by getting ex-Reds David Weathers and Kent Mercker, really, I think that just means we filled our 'pen, no upgrades there.

Anyways, I'm glad we are doing something, but 25 mil for Milton seems a little high, and I'd have liked to see us move Kearns to 3B so Pena would be a full time starter. He had such a great season filling in, it's almost not right having him sit pine, and I don't want to hear any jokes about how Griffey will surely get hurt so he can play.

/rant

[McSweeny]

yeeesh... that's a ton of money for a guy with a career era or 4.7something. I'm just bummed the Yankees didn't end up paying him that money

[Crapshoot]

The Reds may have made the dumbass signing of the off season- wow.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, but they are the Reds. They GOTTA overpay to get anyone to play there.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

The Reds may have made the dumbass signing of the off season- wow.

I second that motion.

That's crazy money to be throwing at a very mediocre pitcher. But hey, as a Cardinals fan I think that's a great signing.

[sterlingice]

Frankly, I see it as better than Jaret Wright and on par with some of the other signings. I don't see this as some epic signing that is really out of whack. Problem is, if it fails, it'll sink the Reds a lot more than, say, when the Yanks or Red Sox have that little bit of dead payroll.

SI

[oykib]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Frankly, I see it as better than Jaret Wright and on par with some of the other signings. I don't see this as some epic signing that is really out of whack. Problem is, if it fails, it'll sink the Reds a lot more than, say, when the Yanks or Red Sox have that little bit of dead payroll.

SI

I agree with you. I don't like the moves the Yanks have made over the last two off-seasons-- with the exception of the A-Rod trade.

Given the choice, I'd take Eric Milton over Jaret Wright.

They could have had Vlad for a million more than they are paying Sheffield.

Matt Clement will be not just better, but significantly better than Carl Pavano.

Tony f@#$%^&* Womack?!

'Not liking George very much right now. Although, I'm sure I'll forgive him if he delivers Carlos Beltran.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Frankly, I see it as better than Jaret Wright and on par with some of the other signings. I don't see this as some epic signing that is really out of whack. Problem is, if it fails, it'll sink the Reds a lot more than, say, when the Yanks or Red Sox have that little bit of dead payroll.

Well stated, and I agree.

[Bomber]

Jaret Wright is a big risk and I don't like the signing all that much, but at least he's had that one good year. Sure he's been awful for most of his career, but I'd rather take the risk for potential greatness, rather than settling for definite mediocrity. I'm not familar with Great American Park, but according to ESPN.com its in the top half for home runs allowed. Not quite where Citizens Bank was last year, but with Milton's HR problems I'd expect the balls to be flying out of the park.

[Swaggs]

There was a short blurb in the Pittsburgh papers today about the Pirates being amongst the potential partners list in the Diamondbacks-Yankees deal. Apparently, the Diamondbacks are interested in Craig Wilson and Kip Wells. No other details beyond those two players.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Frankly, I see it as better than Jaret Wright and on par with some of the other signings. I don't see this as some epic signing that is really out of whack. Problem is, if it fails, it'll sink the Reds a lot more than, say, when the Yanks or Red Sox have that little bit of dead payroll.

SI

Win Shares:
Pitcher A: 15.3
Pitcher B: 9.2

VORP
A: 40.3
B: 18.2

K/9:
A: 7.7
B: 7.2

HR/9:
A: 0.5
B: 1.9

BB/9:
A: 3.4
B: 3.4


BABIP (subject to variation- a higher number means he was more unlucky generally, and vice versa)
A: .300
B: .271

Connecting the dots, A was leaps and bounds better and generally appears a far better bet.