Donte Stallworth...Manslaughter?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Samdari

The two years of house arrest could potentially be interesting.

During that period he won't be physically incacerated, but in a sense is technically incarcerated. Goodell could really say here, you're not eligible to play in the NFL while you are serving a sentence.

Well... do we know the terms of his house arrest? Could he even legally do what he needs to (mini-camps, training camp, away games, etc, etc) to play in the NFL?

[albionmoonlight]

Sentencing Law and Policy: Lawyer for Plaxico Burress making much of sweet plea deal given to other NFL receiver

Burress' lawyer wasted no time pointing this out to the relevant parties in his case.

[RainMaker]

I don't know how I could spend that money. It would be blood money for a family member. Everything I purchased with it would remind me of them. I think it's a lot easier to say that you'd rather take the money till you're in the position. Imagine a drunk driver kills your son/daughter.

All I would care about is vengeance. Money would be inconsequential.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Imagine a drunk driver kills your son/daughter.

All I would care about is vengeance. Money would be inconsequential.

So what would you do? Wait outside his place until he goes for a walk, then run him down with a grin on your face?

[Travis]

To me a lot would depends on the circumstance (yes I know, a minor cop out).

If the person who did it seemed (imho) genuinely remorseful and wanted to do nothing but make amends, own up to it, etc, I'd be much more likely to take the money, accept lesser jail time and try to put that money towards something positive (a fundraiser in the deceased's honor, donate to a local designated driver group, etc) and try to help others either avoid or cope with similar situations.

If the person responsible tries to pass the buck, blame the deceased for being in the wrong place or was anything less than completely regretful over what happened, then yeah, it's go time. They better hope they get sentenced quickly and severely because I'll be waiting for my chance at them.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm more than likely going to want them punished to the fullest extent of the law. The chance to make something positive (as positive as it can be given the catalyst) out of the situation isn't one I can dismiss out of hand though but it'd have to be a pretty special set of circumstances.

[Travis]

Dola, yes I know that sounds a bit cold/logical/calculating especially considering we're talking about a family member having just been killed, but I'm the type who usually controls strong emotions pretty well (haven't been through this type of situation so it's very hard to guess how I'd react) and tends to try and find as positive of a solution to a situation as possible. I'd like to honor their memory with as positive of a tribute as I could, though I fully agree that there needs to be a stiff penalty paid by the person responsible. No matter the amount of money involved I really don't feel the jail time/house arrest details involved here are enough.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

So what would you do? Wait outside his place until he goes for a walk, then run him down with a grin on your face?

I have no idea. I don't think anyone knows how they'd react till they've been put in that spot. I just know that money would mean shit to me.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I have no idea. I don't think anyone knows how they'd react till they've been put in that spot. I just know that money would mean shit to me.

What if you were in that spot, and it no longer meant shit to you?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Travis

If the person who did it seemed (imho) genuinely remorseful and wanted to do nothing but make amends, own up to it, etc, I'd be much more likely to take the money, accept lesser jail time and try to put that money towards something positive (a fundraiser in the deceased's honor, donate to a local designated driver group, etc) and try to help others either avoid or cope with similar situations.

Worth noting here is what I've seen mentioned in more than one article on the subject: Stallworth stop immediately after the crash, called police himself, told them at the scene "I ran over a guy", and at no time even tried to deny his role in the incident.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

What if you were in that spot, and it no longer meant shit to you?

I don't really know. If someone killed a close family member of mine such as my son or daughter, my initial reaction would be to hurt them badly. I don't know if I'd be able to follow through with it or if things would hold me back. But I do know if someone hurt me that way I'd want to hurt them back.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

What Vick did was intentional, premeditated, and shows a complete lack of humanity. What Stallworth was both stupid & criminal but was not undertaken with any malice, not only was it an accident (granted set in motion by his lousy judgement) but there were also mitigating circumstances that has the victim at least sharing the responsibility for the outcome (by jaywalking).

I don't know if I'd call it an "accident". An accident to me is just something that happens in a normal situation that perhaps is unavoidable. A car doesn't see you and swerves to hit you. That to me is an accident. Maybe the driver should have looked more thoroughly in the mirror or worn his sunglasses, but he wasn't doing something maliciously and he had no idea that what he was doing would cause the accident.

When you drive drunk, you've made a concious decision to put the lives of others in danger. I don't see how it's any different than someone who knowingly has HIV and has unprotected sex with other people without telling them. Or someone who closes his eyes in a park and just starts randomly shooting in different directions to test his gun. Sure he doesn't have the intention of killing a person, but he knowingly is doing something that is dangerous to others.

I personally think that if you are drunk and kill another person, you should receive no less than 5 years in prison. You have taken the life of another human being. You have done so while knowing in advance that your actions is dangerous to others.

[Young Drachma]

I think judges should take everything into account. I'd feel the same way if it were a guy who exercised bad judgment after a night with his boys who had a regular job and wasn't a millionaire, as much as I'd feel that way in this case.

I do think that if Stallworth weren't able to settle with the family how he did, that it's unlikely he'd have managed to get off the way he did. I'm sure the cooperation of the family made the prosecutors realize that he was more valuable in this case making millions and being an example, rather than being in jail to "pay for his crime."

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think judges should take everything into account. I'd feel the same way if it were a guy who exercised bad judgment after a night with his boys who had a regular job and wasn't a millionaire, as much as I'd feel that way in this case.

I do think that if Stallworth weren't able to settle with the family how he did, that it's unlikely he'd have managed to get off the way he did. I'm sure the cooperation of the family made the prosecutors realize that he was more valuable in this case making millions and being an example, rather than being in jail to "pay for his crime."

But it sets a rather bad example to the public and particularly younger people. It says that killing someone while driving drunk isn't really that big of a deal.

Isn't it better that someone like this get 10 years in jail? So that 18-year old remembers how a DUI destroyed some NFL players career the next time he goes to a party and thinks about driving home? I just think the sentence makes DUI manslaughter look like a real minor crime. He killed another human being, he didn't steal a pair of jeans from the Gap.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Lathum

yep, it's not like you can bring them back.

If I was killed by a drunk driver I would rather have my family get a nice payday then see the driver go to jail.

Same.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

But it sets a rather bad example to the public and particularly younger people. It says that killing someone while driving drunk isn't really that big of a deal.

Isn't it better that someone like this get 10 years in jail? So that 18-year old remembers how a DUI destroyed some NFL players career the next time he goes to a party and thinks about driving home? I just think the sentence makes DUI manslaughter look like a real minor crime.

I don't believe that decisions ought to be rendered in the interest of "what about the kids? It absolutely frustrates me that so many people believe that you can legislate good behavior. You can't and you won't.

I get that some people favor retribution over anything, but..I'm just not from the school of "an eye for an eye."

I think you have to consider all of the facts, rather than paint a broad brush in decisionmaking.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I don't believe that decisions ought to be rendered in the interest of "what about the kids? It absolutely frustrates me that so many people believe that you can legislate good behavior. You can't and you won't.

I get that some people favor retribution over anything, but..I'm just not from the school of "an eye for an eye."

I think you have to consider all of the facts, rather than paint a broad brush in decisionmaking.

Then why bother sending anyone to jail? I mean you can't legislate good behavior. Just tear down the jails and make everything civil court based.

I think 5-10 years is quite fair for taking the life of another human being.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I personally think that if you are drunk and kill another person, you should receive no less than 5 years in prison. You have taken the life of another human being. You have done so while knowing in advance that your actions is dangerous to others.

But if the guy doesn't step off the curb outside of the proper place, there's probably not contact at all. That's the extenuating circumstance here that makes it a lot less cut & dry to me than the standard drunk-driver-kills-someone story. In this case, it took two to tango, which is why I'm still surprised he pled guilty since I really don't believe a jury would have convicted him of this level of charge.

[Big Fo]

If only Vick had paid off the families of those dogs...

[Young Drachma]

Dany Heatley got probation in his case. But he plays hockey.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Then why bother sending anyone to jail? I mean you can't legislate good behavior. Just tear down the jails and make everything civil court based.

I wouldn't opposed this. But I realize it's not practical and I'm in the minority. But I'd be fine with it.

But then I'd be fine with things like privately owned toll roads and other things too.

That said, I understand your position. It's just too draconian, too one-sized fits all. But...I'm not surprised by it and respect where you're coming from.

If we take out reasoning, if we ignore circumstances in situations and apply a broad brush to everything, then why bother having judges at all? Or juries? Let's just forget the facts, have arbitrators decide everything and let's make every mistake humans make punitive.

After all, people "need to learn" and the kids deserve "role models."

I just don't agree.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I wouldn't opposed this. But I realize it's not practical and I'm in the minority. But I'd be fine with it.

But then I'd be fine with things like privately owned toll roads and other things too.

That said, I understand your position. It's just too draconian, too one-sized fits all. But...I'm not surprised by it and respect where you're coming from.

If we take out reasoning, if we ignore circumstances in situations and apply a broad brush to everything, then why bother having judges at all? Or juries? Let's just forget the facts, have arbitrators decide everything and let's make every mistake humans make punitive.

After all, people "need to learn" and the kids deserve "role models."

I just don't agree.

You're really fine with not having a prison system for pedophiles and murderers? You didn't like someone you're sitting next to at a game and you can just stab them in the throat with no consequences? That's more like anarchy than anything.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But if the guy doesn't step off the curb outside of the proper place, there's probably not contact at all. That's the extenuating circumstance here that makes it a lot less cut & dry to me than the standard drunk-driver-kills-someone story. In this case, it took two to tango, which is why I'm still surprised he pled guilty since I really don't believe a jury would have convicted him of this level of charge.

Exactly. This could have been way uglier for the dude's loved ones, if Stallworth beat the charges and they got nothing.

Stallworth killed the guy, and that's horrible. But it wasn't like he tried to run away like most people might have.

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by stevew

Stallworth killed the guy, and that's horrible. But it wasn't like he tried to run away like most people might have.

No it is not like he was drunk or anything!

I think a 4 game suspension for murder is on par for the NFL.

[Kodos]

I'd have more sympathy for Stallworth if he'd been sober when the accident happened. Maybe the guy did try to cross the road in a place where he shouldn't have. But the fact the Stallworth was drunk at the time skews things heavily in the "punish him with lots of jail time" direction. Maybe if he wasn't drunk, he could have avoided the pedestrian.

I'd feel the same way if he'd been talking on his cell phone at the time of the accident.

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Dany Heatley got probation in his case. But he plays hockey.

I read that entire article on Heatley, but I did not see anything about Heatley being drunk?



Drunk Driving is never an accident. It is something people do on purpose, knowing full well what they are doing and what the results of their actions can likely be. IT is not like the person accidentally drinks alcohol, then accidentally gets behind the wheel of a car; That is unless someone slipped something into his Pop can!

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by stevew

But it wasn't like he tried to run away like most people might have.

Right. He stopped. He tried to get the guy help. He was cooperative with the authorities. That and the crosswalk thing, plus expensive lawyers, made this less than a slam dunk prosecution.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

I read that entire article on Heatley, but I did not see anything about Heatley being drunk?

He was drinking but was not believed to be legally drunk at the time of the crash.

He was however driving more than 80 mph in a 35 mph zone (on a road that has seen more than its share of serious accidents from people flying down it)

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You're really fine with not having a prison system for pedophiles and murderers? You didn't like someone you're sitting next to at a game and you can just stab them in the throat with no consequences? That's more like anarchy than anything.

Anarcho-capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[duckman]

NFL suspends Stallworth indefinitely...

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4270311

[flounder]

Turns out he was high on pot too.

After fatally striking a pedestrian on the MacArthur Causeway in a March drunk driving accident, Cleveland Browns wide receiver Donte' Stallworth also tested positive for marijuana use, law enforcement sources say.

...

Miami-Dade prosecutors say his blood alcohol level was .126, well above the legal limit, when his Bentley hit and killed Mario Reyes, 59, on the morning of March 14.

[PackerFanatic]

I heard a small clip on ESPN that this news, as well as other news that hasn't been released to the public yet, was fully known by the prosecutors, defense, and judge at the time of the trial. And yet - still only 30 days in jail.

[gstelmack]

There are also reports of security camera footage showing the guy basically darting out into traffic right in front of him, indicating that a perfectly sober Stallworth still would have run him over and killed him. If that's true he's getting 30 days for DUI basically...

[Logan]

Heard the 911 call. While Stallworth sounded scared, he sounded pretty sober.

[RainMaker]

Regardless of the situation, it's still a DUI and it still increases the risk of fatalities. They just sentenced some people in California for shooting porn for a year, but Donte gets 30 days. Interesting justice system.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by flounder

Turns out he was high on pot too.

Not quite. "Traces of marijuana" indicates he ingested it sometime in the last 30 days, not that he was high on it at the time. Just as him being legally drunk doesn't mean the other guy wasn't at fault.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

There are also reports of security camera footage showing the guy basically darting out into traffic right in front of him, indicating that a perfectly sober Stallworth still would have run him over and killed him. If that's true he's getting 30 days for DUI basically...

I just saw footage of what has been loosely described by the media as a guy crossing the road and getting killed. It looks like a fucking 8 lane expressway with a giant median right by Stallworth's car. If you haven't seen this footage yet on ESPN it may change your opinion a bit. (your opinion meaning anyone not gstelmack even though I quoted him)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by panerd

I just saw footage of what has been loosely described by the media as a guy crossing the road and getting killed. It looks like a fucking 8 lane expressway with a giant median right by Stallworth's car. If you haven't seen this footage yet on ESPN it may change your opinion a bit. (your opinion meaning anyone not gstelmack even though I quoted him)

+1. Why would anyone ever try to cross that on foot? I've seen major highways with speed limits of 55 that look safer and easier to cross than that.

[NewIdentity]

I'm confused. Stallworth received 2 years of house arrest, so why are people talking about a 4 - 8 game suspension? Surely he can not play in the NFL while he is under House Arrest?

I understand he will be allowed to play while under his 8 years of probation, but how can he play if he is under house arrest for the next 2 years? I wonder if any NFL players have ever been allowed to play games while under house arrest? What would he do for away games; take his house with him?

[molson]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

I'm confused. Stallworth received 2 years of house arrest, so why are people talking about a 4 - 8 game suspension? Surely he can not play in the NFL while he is under House Arrest?

I understand he will be allowed to play while under his 8 years of probation, but how can he play if he is under house arrest for the next 2 years? I wonder if any NFL players have ever been allowed to play games while under house arrest? What would he do for away games; take his house with him?

He'd be allowed to leave for work. He'd probably need special permission to travel for work, but since that's the nature of his job, it shouldn't be a problem.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

I understand he will be allowed to play while under his 8 years of probation, but how can he play if he is under house arrest for the next 2 years? I wonder if any NFL players have ever been allowed to play games while under house arrest? What would he do for away games; take his house with him?

If I ever get House Arrest, i am buying a mobile home

[Logan]

Suspended for the entire 2009 season, according to ESPN.

Gotta say I'm a bit surprised.

[MikeVic]

Yeah, I'm completely surprised. A whole season?? I haven't followed this story completely, but I thought it was established that the pedestrian was doing a very stupid crossing and would've been hit regardless of a DUI or not.

[Thomkal]

have to say I'm surprised its a whole year too, given what suspension he gave Michael Vick. The guy admitted to everything up front right from the start, did his time, never lied to the commissioner, was remorseful, and stayed out of trouble since. I think a year is a bit harsh given all this. Killing someone is huge of course, but kinda scratching my head at this suspension.

[larrymcg421]

I don't mind Stallworth's punishment being that severe. I just wish Vick's had been even more severe.

[Noop]

This is a pretty shitty decision from the commissioner unless he is being suspended for drugs(I believe he was high at the time) I don't get the severity of the punishment. Does his team get reimbursed in the form of a waiver or draft pick?

Color me confused.

[Young Drachma]

Not surprised by the suspension of a year. I think we all knew it'd be that. Easily. As for the future of his career, I wonder a bit what the Browns will do in the wake of his suspension whether they'll let him come back or not or if they'll try to get out of the deal.

I don't like Goddell at all, but...he's doing what the owners want, I guess.

[gstelmack]

He's sending a message to Leonard Little that if he screws up a THIRD time, he'll really get it...

[molson]

I wonder how much the the NFL takes into account the criminal punishments. As in Vick only got a few games, but he was out a few years prior to that. If he had just gotten probation and no jail time, the NFL penalty may have been harsher.

And if Stallworth got 2 years prison, then the NFL might of let him back right when he was out.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by molson

I wonder how much the the NFL takes into account the criminal punishments. As in Vick only got a few games, but he was out a few years prior to that. If he had just gotten probation and no jail time, the NFL penalty may have been harsher.

And if Stallworth got 2 years prison, then the NFL might of let him back right when he was out.

My thoughts exactly. I'm fully behind Goodell in this decision, as I have been of almost every one of his decisions.

[gstelmack]

Peter King is reporting (or reported yesterday in his MMQB column) that Stallworth is likely to be reinstated following the Super Bowl. This is one of the few cases where I think the player has taken full responsibility and done everything in his power to correct his mistake and would not have any issue with him coming back in. I still like how Stallworth handled this and wish more athletes would act like this.