(Page 2) "Don't like USA Basketball? You MUST be racist!"

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by druez

Kobbie did ok also.

Kobe's rookie season:

fg% .417 ft% .819 ppg 7.6 rpg 1.9 minutes 1103

He's a 45% career shooter from the field. He came off the bench that year.

Has he developed? Yes, but can be shut down, ask the Pistons.

A perfect example of why a year or two of college would have made him a better player out of the box.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

To say that Iverson has passion for basketball is just a joke. Iverson has passion for himself, the fame, and the cash. I don't see anything other than that when he plays. Same thing with the rest of the NBA.

I agree to some extent - there's no doubt to me that when AI steps on the floor and the ball goes up he plays his ass off. He plays without fear and routinely gives up his body during the game. He has a passion for winning - but I agree that its not the same thing as a passion for the sport.

Someone who has a passion for the sport doesn't skip practice because he thinks he's good enough. If Iverson was passionate about the sport itself he would be on time to practices and would be working after practices like a typical "gym rat". He's passionate about winning games - not about the sport of basketball.

I think that "the rest of the NBA" is a pretty broad lump-in though. There are definitely players in the NBA that do love the sport and do put in the hours practicing, studying and learning the game.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Aadik

no- they are making a decision that affects your rooting interest for your team. If in my second year of college, someone offered me $3 million over 3 years, I'd damn well jump at it- I know Im smart enough to get my degree if it doesnt work out. This terrible life decision is terrible, why ? If they're good enough, theyll survive- if they dont., they wont. End of story- the lure of that much money and freedom is certainly not a terrible decision, given the potential upside.

Because 2nd round draft picks and those that go undrafted(ie the VAST MAJORITY of players that declare early) do not get $3 million over 3 years.

If you're going high in the draft, go. If not, stay and improve your stock.

I'll get numbers to back that up if I can, I am pretty certain on this though.

But take this as a major part of my point:

Kwame Brown made the right decision to go pro. I don't care about his success or lack of in the NBA. He was picked high enough that he doesn't need ot succeed. He just needs to manage the money he makes from his first contract well.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Again, apparantly you didn't follow the Pistons.

You should really quit while you're ahead.

Hell even Utah for that matter. They just missed the playoffs and did that through great teamwork and coaching.

Timberwolves played some good team basketball and the Heat really pulled it together.

Hey the Pacers, lets not forget them.

[korme]

i love ai's hustle.

that is all

[vtbub]

Watching Detroit this past season was incredible.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

i love ai's hustle.

that is all

Yep thats the point. AI might be selfish and probably isn't the greatest role model, but he hustles and sells his body to the sport every game.

[druez]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Kobe's rookie season:

fg% .417 ft% .819 ppg 7.6 rpg 1.9 minutes 1103

He's a 45% career shooter from the field. He came off the bench that year.

Has he developed? Yes, but can be shut down, ask the Pistons.

A perfect example of why a year or two of college would have made him a better player out of the box.

No I agree, but he developed fine in the NBA. He certainly wasn't like Eddie Griffon of Rockets fame.

[HornedFrog Purple]

I think that "the rest of the NBA" is a pretty broad lump-in though. There are definitely players in the NBA that do love the sport and do put in the hours practicing, studying and learning the game.

I agree. See Tim Duncan. He has improved in every facet of his game since he joined the NBA though he still sputters on the line.

He has actually had a good tournament and has been a little too unselfish in passing it out to Marbury et all and trying to rebound bricks.

[korme]

Originally Posted by druez

Yep thats the point. AI might be selfish and probably isn't the greatest role model, but he hustles and sells his body to the sport every game.

yep, and that's why i have a picture of him on my wall, with his finger up kinda leading the team. i'm a small point guard and i liked to model after his during every game, putting 110% in (including the dive whenever necessary )

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You obviously didn't follow the Pistons. I watched every single game last season (and for the past few years) and have NEVER gotten that impression. I'm not going to waste my time, but if you don't like the sport, say you don't like the sport. But don't say make broad indictment of the entire NBA and everyone in it. You're a republican and we live in a capitalistic society, yet you are going to deny these men their market value? Seems hypocritical.

No, I don't follow the Pistons. I prefer college basketball to pro-basketball. Why? Because you have guys in there who have a snowball's chance in Phoenix making the NBA, playing their hears out. Living and dying in the last two minutes of the game. I love watching them crumble in their seats when they lose. I love watching them celebrate when they win. They're playing for the love of the sport, not for the money. It's more enjoyable for me.

I don't see the same kind of passion for the game or the sport, when I watch the NBA. I see plenty of teams and players wanting to win and perform well, but I don't see anyone who just loves the game. Showboating and dunking on someone isn't what makes the game enjoyable for me.

And as far as me denying anyone their market value..that's crap. I never said that and you know it. If I wanted to say that I would have. If the market wants to pay these guys millions for what they do - great. I just won't be watching it.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I agree to some extent - there's no doubt to me that when AI steps on the floor and the ball goes up he plays his ass off. He plays without fear and routinely gives up his body during the game. He has a passion for winning - but I agree that its not the same thing as a passion for the sport.

Someone who has a passion for the sport doesn't skip practice because he thinks he's good enough. If Iverson was passionate about the sport itself he would be on time to practices and would be working after practices like a typical "gym rat". He's passionate about winning games - not about the sport of basketball.

I think that "the rest of the NBA" is a pretty broad lump-in though. There are definitely players in the NBA that do love the sport and do put in the hours practicing, studying and learning the game.

Well not sure I agree with that. I know quite a few people that loved a sport and were passionate about it, but didn't like oraganized practices. They loved to play at the park or scrimmage, but might not of liked doing drills and the like. But, I think this is an argument of samantics.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Kobe's rookie season:

fg% .417 ft% .819 ppg 7.6 rpg 1.9 minutes 1103

He's a 45% career shooter from the field. He came off the bench that year.

Has he developed? Yes, but can be shut down, ask the Pistons.

A perfect example of why a year or two of college would have made him a better player out of the box.

Ugh - Im with you on the Pistons thought - they were incredible and fun to watch - but not with this one. Playing a year or two in college wouldn't have done anything to help Kobe's game most likely. What would have helped Kobe's game would have been if someone taught him to shoot a jumper when he was a 9th grader.

He's an amazing talent when he can drive to the basket - take that away like Detroit did and he's just another slightly above average player on the court.

[Antmeister]

This is a very interesting thread and one I didn't realize people were passionate about, but I for one don't think there are a majority of Americans who want them to lose because of racism. It may be a small percentage of them (just being realistic), but not a majority. There are a number of reasons why our team is struggling:

1. There are a number of countries that are now developing basketball players from a very early age. Before this, basketball wasn't really a sport that was being funded by these countries. And in these basketball camps, they are learning good fundamental basketball skills from a very early age.

2. A number of our best shooters of today are playing for their European countries.

3. Nowadays NBA players don't really play much team defense. While most people like to point out that the team doesn't play defense, the problem is that the team is made up of a lot of poor defenders. It is not an issue that they don't try, it is just they don't know how to play team defense. There have been a number of poor defenders in the history of the NBA (even Magic Johnson has some suspect defense), but what made up for this was some good ol' fashioned team defense.

4. In the NBA, there are usually only 1 to 3 really good players on the team. What is sad about this is that the rest of the team then become specialized. No one can hit a mid range shot anymore, because the focus is on other skills.
This is partly because of the coaching in the NBA of today. Because offenses usually primarily focus on the 1 - 3 players on the team, it is difficult to break out of this mold because they are used to getting a certain amount of touches.

I don't mind if the US falls in basketball, but it won't make them disgraceful if they do. The rest of the world has improved and the European players in the NBA are proof of this. A loss would hopefully put pressure on the athletes who declined and change the way the game is played somewhat.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by druez

I know quite a few people that loved a sport and were passionate about it, but didn't like oraganized practices.

If you love your job and are passionate about your work do you show up late or skip meetings with your boss? Sure you might come through when your work is supposed to be done but that alone doesn't make you passionate about your job.

Here's the thing - if AI really wanted to do this for the love of the game and love of his country and was really, really pumped and overflowing with passion...why was he late and needed to be benched for their first exhibition game?

I don't argue for a second once the ball goes up he's 110% into the game but for the 48 minutes the clock isnt ticking in a day he's not passionate about the sport.

But you're right - who's going to win when debating semantics?

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

yep, and that's why i have a picture of him on my wall, with his finger up kinda leading the team. i'm a small point guard and i liked to model after his during every game, putting 110% in (including the dive whenever necessary )

Is anyone else trying to picture Shorty in cornrows and tats?

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Ugh - Im with you on the Pistons thought - they were incredible and fun to watch - but not with this one. Playing a year or two in college wouldn't have done anything to help Kobe's game most likely. What would have helped Kobe's game would have been if someone taught him to shoot a jumper when he was a 9th grader.

He's an amazing talent when he can drive to the basket - take that away like Detroit did and he's just another slightly above average player on the court.

He would have started on a team that played a higher level of ball than his high school. Instead, he got less than 20 minutes a night from the bench. If he wasn't good enough to start, then he should of started somewhere in college, gone deep in the tourney, had the experience that Anthony did last year of learning game management in loud pressure situations and be ready to start and lead from day one.

[Daimyo]

I hope the US wins the gold, but whenever I watch the actual games I can't help but root against team US because the other teams are just much more fun to watch. I still root for some individuals on team US (how you can not root for AI as hard as he plays every single play is beyond me), but as a team they are terrible to watch.

If they put together a good basketball team next time out instead of a marketing machine I have no doubt I'll be a huge fan of Team USA again.... IMO it would be so easy to do so. I have no doubt they could build a team entirely made up of non-NBA starters and win gold as long as they picked guys who complimented each other and fit the international style.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

I hope the US wins the gold, but whenever I watch the actual games I can't help but root against team US because the other teams are just much more fun to watch. I still root for some individuals on team US (how you can not root for AI as hard as he plays every single play is beyond me), but as a team they are terrible to watch.

If they put together a good basketball team next time out instead of a marketing machine I have no doubt I'll be a huge fan of Team USA again.... IMO it would be so easy to do so. I have no doubt they could build a team entirely made up of non-NBA starters and win gold as long as they picked guys who complimented each other and fit the international style.

I like this idea becasue the non-starters are also much more likely to participate.

[thesloppy]

Let me be the first to admit that my dislike of the modern NBA game, and therefore our recent olympic teams, is undoubtedly tinged with a little bit of racism. I don't consider myself a racist, but I am a white man, and I feel that the NBA itself is presented in such an unabashedly racist way that it is impossible for any reaction to the league, and the way it is presented, to be completely free of at least a little bit of racism.

The NBA and their advertising partners present the modern NBA player as sterotypical iced-out, hip-hop, streetballing thugs with every chance they get, and they reinforce this behaviour by typically rewarding the players that display these properties with the biggest endorsement deals and big money contracts in the large media markets. The divide between the 'hip-hop' player and the fans grows larger because although NBA fans have been clamoring for a more 'team oriented' style of play for years, it's obvious to the player that continuing down the individualistic 'thug' route will still result in more money, more media coverage, and generally more success, while passing the ball to his teammates more will probably just result in a bigger contract for whomever he's giving the ball to. The NBA, Reebok, Nike, and everybody driectly or indirectly involved in the league's marketing juggernaut have done nothing but promote the image of the selfish, tattooed, young black male....how is that not racist in itself? You are left the choice of either supporting that image, or rejecting it, and since the image itself seems racist as all hell, how can either choice be free of racism?

The Pistons are often used as an example to the contrary to what I've said above, but the Pistons won the championship in spite of the current attitude in the league, not because of a shift in that attitude. How many people who pluck their paycheck from the NBA moneytree gave the Pistons any credit before they won? How many big-money endorsements did the Pistons players reap from their championship? In fact, didn't Rasheed Wallace have to in fact take less money to keep that team together? The Pistons and their players will surely reap some rewards from their championship, but they're still going to be 2nd place when it comes to rewards like those going to players like Iverson and Marbury.

Things get really murky for the white man when you've got a guy like Jason Whitlock pulling out the race card for not supporting the NBA, it's players, and it's attitude. Certainly, no 'enlightened' white man (or woman) likes to be called racist, but I would feel just as racist supporting the image of the black male that the NBA tries to pound into my brain, so it's a little 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'. Personally, I think Whitlock should look closely at how the NBA is presented, who presents it that way, and who is signing his paycheck before he goes pointing the racism finger at fans.

In the 70s we had 'The Jeffersons', 'Good Times', and many many blaxploitation films that we're completely produced by white people and often painted pictures of black people that were stereotypical and racist. However they were all successful because black people were understandably happy to finally themselves in positions of power on the big and small screens, and white people were just as eager to marvel at them and their 'ghetto' ways. Of course a small minority people from both races rallied against these projects as supporting hateful stereotypes, and looking bak on these films and shows it is hard to disagree that they are not representative of black people and culture, yet you have to wonder if Jason Whitlock would have called you racist for not thouroughly enjoying the antics of JJ Walker, George Jefferson and Black Belt Jones.

[druez]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Let me be the first to admit that my dislike of the modern NBA game, and therefore our recent olympic teams, is undoubtedly tinged with a little bit of racism. I don't consider myself a racist, but I am a white man, and I feel that the NBA itself is presented in such an unabashedly racist way that it is impossible for any reaction to the league, and the way it is presented, to be completely free of at least a little bit of racism.

The NBA and their advertising partners present the modern NBA player as sterotypical iced-out, hip-hop, streetballing thugs with every chance they get, and they reinforce this behaviour by typically rewarding the players that display these properties with the biggest endorsement deals and big money contracts in the large media markets. The divide between the 'hip-hop' player and the fans grows larger because although NBA fans have been clamoring for a more 'team oriented' style of play for years, it's obvious to the player that continuing down the individualistic 'thug' route will still result in more money, more media coverage, and generally more success, while passing the ball to his teammates more will probably just result in a bigger contract for whomever he's giving the ball to. The NBA, Reebok, Nike, and everybody driectly or indirectly involved in the league's marketing juggernaut have done nothing but promote the image of the selfish, tattooed, young black male....how is that not racist in itself? You are left the choice of either supporting that image, or rejecting it, and since the image itself seems racist as all hell, how can either choice be free of racism?

The Pistons are often used as an example to the contrary to what I've said above, but the Pistons won the championship in spite of the current attitude in the league, not because of a shift in that attitude. How many people who pluck their paycheck from the NBA moneytree gave the Pistons any credit before they won? How many big-money endorsements did the Pistons players reap from their championship? In fact, didn't Rasheed Wallace have to in fact take less money to keep that team together? The Pistons and their players will surely reap some rewards from their championship, but they're still going to be 2nd place when it comes to rewards like those going to players like Iverson and Marbury.

Things get really murky for the white man when you've got a guy like Jason Whitlock pulling out the race card for not supporting the NBA, it's players, and it's attitude. Certainly, no 'enlightened' white man (or woman) likes to be called racist, but I would feel just as racist supporting the image of the black male that the NBA tries to pound into my brain, so it's a little 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'. Personally, I think Whitlock should look closely at how the NBA is presented, who presents it that way, and who is signing his paycheck before he goes pointing the racism finger at fans.

In the 70s we had 'The Jeffersons', 'Good Times', and many many blaxploitation films that we're completely produced by white people and often painted pictures of black people that were stereotypical and racist. However they were all successful because black people were understandably happy to finally themselves in positions of power on the big and small screens, and white people were just as eager to marvel at them and their 'ghetto' ways. Of course a small minority people from both races rallied against these projects as supporting hateful stereotypes, and looking bak on these films and shows it is hard to disagree that they are not representative of black people and culture, yet you have to wonder if Jason Whitlock would have called you racist for not thouroughly enjoying the antics of JJ Walker, George Jefferson and Black Belt Jones.

That is a very well written post. I'm still trying to determine if I agree with all of it though. But, either way great well thought out post.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

. Of course a small minority people from both races rallied against these projects as supporting hateful stereotypes, and looking bak on these films and shows it is hard to disagree that they are not representative of black people and culture, yet you have to wonder if Jason Whitlock would have called you racist for not thouroughly enjoying the antics of JJ Walker, George Jefferson and Black Belt Jones.

I thoroughly enjoyed Good Times and am thoroughly disappointed in Team USA. Nice post, thesloppy.

[Crapshoot]

The problem, as I see it, is that there are a lot of fans who support this- who enjoy the hip hop culture. I think King Kaufmann put it correctely- there are a lot of Middle aged white sportswriters who've simply seen the world around them change repeatedly - and to some extent, there's a culture clash there.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't care who's in the medal lead, and I don't care if one of "our" teams wins. If I root at all, it's for individuals. So don't give me some country music lecture about how I should be rooting for the American team, or else I'm a traitor.

It's fucking sports, for chrissakes. Just because Iran thinks beating the US in soccer is an indictment of our system of goverment and a defeat of the Great Satan, doesn't mean we have to stoop to their pathetic level. It's a sporting event - nothing more, nothing less, IMO.

*applause*

I 100% agree! Just because I don't want to root for the US in every sport or watch NBA's USA blowjobs doesn't mean I'm not a patriot! It's a sporting event, and I want to see the best athletes, NOT the best US athletes! If the US wins, great, but if they don't, I don't care. I just want to see the teams that wins or at least have some coverage of that team.

---

I've been rooting against USA basketball since the first loss to Italy. Why? Because of the utter arrogance. USA basketball thinks it it put together a bunch of 'names' and they'll just roll over everyone. Maybe if they get humiliated they'll realize they should think about putting a TEAM together with shooters and role players. Take a lesson from the Pistons.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by vtbub

If he wasn't good enough to start, then he should of started somewhere in college, gone deep in the tourney, had the experience that Anthony did last year of learning game management in loud pressure situations and be ready to start and lead from day one.

I think Anthony's lack of playing time on a team with other "good players" and a hall of fame coach (at both the NCAA and NBA levels) should speak volumes about what his year of college did for him - as in nothing. LeBron skipped college and plays a much more sound game than Melo does. Sure Melo looks good in Denver - who wouldn't? Lets see what happens with a solid player in Kenyon Martin there now.

[Blackadar]

Fuck it. To the title of this thread...

I guess I'm a racist then!

[Solecismic]

I didn't see a single minute of the last NBA season, and you all know how important sports are in my life. I just don't like the game, as it's played today.

I love the game of football as it's played today. With only a slightly lower percentage of black players in the game.

It's not racism. It's the aesthetics of sport. We all know that the best basketball teams do not do what NBA teams do. The NBA has to dumb itself down by outlawing effective defense, replacing it with outright muggings, because the league, for whatever reason, does not want to see effective offensive and defensive strategies. Dream on if you think the Pistons would perform even a tiny bit better on the international stage.

I'm really tired of being told what to think by stupid journalists. Both in politics and in sport. I don't like the NBA and it has nothing to do with the color of Allen Iverson, or even his tattoos. Political Correctness sucks, and right now, I'd say the left is just as intolerant as the right has ever been.

As for rooting in the Olympics, yeah, I don't mind seeing the US basketball team lose. For one reason only: I would like to watch an NBA game again during my life, and actually enjoy it. Perhaps their mediocre performance is a needed wakeup call.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I didn't see a single minute of the last NBA season,

Dream on if you think the Pistons would perform even a tiny bit better on the international stage.

Jim, how can you make that statement if you yourself said you didn't see a single minute of the last NBA season?

I myself watched a great deal of the Pistons season because for once in a long time I actually saw something watchable in the NBA. I saw a TEAM. Nobody was showing up to hog the spotlight at The Palace. Even league bad boy Rasheed turned off the 'tude and played ball because that's what LB expected and that's how the rest of the boys played. I was as shocked as anyone to see Rasheed not be the selfish idiot he was in Portland - its amazing what happens when you're put in a positive situation with players who are playing for the right reasons.

I happen to think the Pistons would fare very well and in fact I think they would have swept through the Olympics without a problem. Taking their roster from last season you have big men who can shoot the outside shot (Rasheed, Okur), athletic, good sized guards who are both exceptional FT shooters - one who is very adept at creating his own shot with the ball (Billups) and one who is arguably the best player in the NBA at creating his own shot without the ball (Hamilton) not to mention a very athletic swingman with good size, a decent touch and a good head for the game (Prince). Then of course you have one of the best rebounders and shot blockers in the league (Ben Wallace) coupled with other guys who are good shot blockers as well (Rasheed and Prince).

Off the bench you've got Williamson, Okur, Lindsey Hunter, Mike James and Elden Campbell - all players who made solid contributions in their role and who knows what Milicic would be able to do in a more familiar setting. I think Detroit would do just fine on the international stage. This season you should really watch them Jim. You just might enjoy watching at least the Pistons play if you don't like how the other teams play.

[The_herd]

Gary, thats some idealistic thinking. Sending the Pistons would have resulted in improved team defense, but at the expense of a lot of offensive firepower and much worse outside shooting overall. The Pistons shot 43% from the field as a team and 34% from the 3pt line. They also struggled to average 90ppg. Billups wouldn't fare any better than Marbury in international play. Rasheed may be a good fit for international play, but you never know what you're going to get from him, although I do think he would be their best player in the international setting. I can't see Hamilton being as effective against teams that run zones infinately better than he's seen since going to the NBA. Prince doesn't have the confindence in his game to offer anything offensively and usually defaults to Billups or Hamilton.

The bench is solid by NBA standards, but offers nothing offensively in international play. The only players that have offensive potential are Okur and Williamson, and its been proven that good post play without outside shooting gets you nowhere. Darko would do the same thing in these games as he did during the regular season. Nothing. Larry Brown doesn't like to play rookies, and if you are a rookie that doesn't play defense you might as well buy a ticket because you aren't going to play. Lindsey Hunter can't shoot straight. Same for Mike James.

The Pistons were a great NBA team this season, but they wouldn't play in better in Greece than the team that's currently there.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by The_herd

Gary, thats some idealistic thinking. Sending the Pistons would have resulted in improved team defense, but at the expense of a lot of offensive firepower and much worse outside shooting overall.

The Pistons would not shoot worse than Team USA shoots now and would actually play defense - there was that one stretch this season where they held 5 NBA teams under 70 points in a row. If you play great defense - be it at high school, NCAA, NBA or International - you don't need to score alot of points.

Originally Posted by The_herd

Billups wouldn't fare any better than Marbury in international play.

That's flat out untrue. Billups and Starbury are TOTALLY different players. Marbury has never and will never win anything in the NBA because he's not a leader. Billups is and has the ability to either take over the game or put himself behind to allow his teammates to flourish.

Originally Posted by The_herd

I can't see Hamilton being as effective against teams that run zones infinately better than he's seen since going to the NBA.

Hamilton is extremely good at finding areas to get shots from against a zone or man and here's the kicker - he'll make an open 15 footer.

Originally Posted by The_herd

Prince doesn't have the confindence in his game to offer anything offensively and usually defaults to Billups or Hamilton.

In most cases true - he comes up with the occassional big shot now and again but he offers alot more on the defensive end.

Originally Posted by The_herd

The only players that have offensive potential are Okur and Williamson, and its been proven that good post play without outside shooting gets you nowhere. Darko would do the same thing in these games as he did during the regular season. Nothing.

Okur has the ability to hit the three so I think he would be very effective - Williamson definitely less effective but still a solid body and yeah, Darko probably wouldn't do anything but I just said maybe in an international setting he would contribute something because of his familiarity with it.

My question is what's the hangup with scoring? Since when do you need to score 100 points to win games? In the entire tournament so far only 11 times has a team scored more than 90 even in a game. Thats 11/72 tries - 15% and three of those times were against Team USA. Then again everyone said Detroit couldn't beat LA because they couldn't score any points.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I didn't see a single minute of the last NBA season, and you all know how important sports are in my life. I just don't like the game, as it's played today.

I love the game of football as it's played today. With only a slightly lower percentage of black players in the game.

It's not racism. It's the aesthetics of sport. We all know that the best basketball teams do not do what NBA teams do. The NBA has to dumb itself down by outlawing effective defense, replacing it with outright muggings, because the league, for whatever reason, does not want to see effective offensive and defensive strategies. Dream on if you think the Pistons would perform even a tiny bit better on the international stage.

I'm really tired of being told what to think by stupid journalists. Both in politics and in sport. I don't like the NBA and it has nothing to do with the color of Allen Iverson, or even his tattoos. Political Correctness sucks, and right now, I'd say the left is just as intolerant as the right has ever been.

As for rooting in the Olympics, yeah, I don't mind seeing the US basketball team lose. For one reason only: I would like to watch an NBA game again during my life, and actually enjoy it. Perhaps their mediocre performance is a needed wakeup call.

A-FREAKIN-MEN

(oh except I prefer the same thing happen and the US winning. But if they don't I hope that good comes of it.)

[ColtCrazy]

What's truly funny is he mentions KG, Kobe, and Shaq...as if we'd be rooting for them if they were on the team....aren't they black too, or did I miss the memo? I usually thought Whitlock was half way decent, I'm disappointed he would throw that out there like that.

[Ragone]

Whitlock is a kc area "journalist"(and i use the term loosely).. he loves to put himself in the spotlight anyway possible.. so this is hardly surprising to me

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

That's flat out untrue. Billups and Starbury are TOTALLY different players. Marbury has never and will never win anything in the NBA because he's not a leader. Billups is and has the ability to either take over the game or put himself behind to allow his teammates to flourish.

I never said they were similar players. I said he would fare the same. Neither player has international game. Billups shot less than 40% from the field on the season. He's a typical PG in the NBA right now. Gets to the basket well, can hit an outside shot, but offers no midrange game and his playmaking skills are questionable.

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Hamilton is extremely good at finding areas to get shots from against a zone or man and here's the kicker - he'll make an open 15 footer.

15 footers don't do much when the other team is knocking down 3's. The current team is finding out that you can't make a living knocking down 2's in olympic play. Hamilton would score, but I'm betting the 2 guard on the opposing team outscores him more often than not.

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

My question is what's the hangup with scoring? Since when do you need to score 100 points to win games? In the entire tournament so far only 11 times has a team scored more than 90 even in a game. Thats 11/72 tries - 15% and three of those times were against Team USA. Then again everyone said Detroit couldn't beat LA because they couldn't score any points.

Don't compare scoring 100 in international play to doing the same in the NBA. Totally different accomplishments. The game overseas if the opposite of NBA ball. Offense first, defense second, if at all. That's what wins. Outside shooting and ball movement.

It takes foreign players at least a season to adjust to the NBA game, while NBA players get a handful of exhibition games to adjust to a game thats just as different for them. No group of players we send over is going to be successful unless its built with the international style of play in mind. The Pistons are a NBA team. The succeed under NBA rules. Tough defense. Penetration. Isolation. The 3 keys to the NBA. None of those are a necessity overseas. As the saying goes, "you can't fit a square peg in a round hole", or something like that. Thats what we try to do by sending our players to play a game that has evolved into something different than the basketball played here in the states.

BTW, my dream team would go as follows:

Jason Williams
Eric Piatkowski
Keith Van Horn
Brian Cardinal
Brad Miller

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by The_herd

The game overseas if the opposite of NBA ball. Offense first, defense second, if at all. That's what wins. Outside shooting and ball movement.

That's because overseas players generally don't play defense. That helps in the scoring numbers. How many guys from overseas are considered great or even good defenders in the NBA? They are very skilled offensive players - no doubt - but I believe a good defense wins out over a good offense.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

How many guys from overseas are considered great or even good defenders in the NBA?

Look no further than Darko. Nobody guards a bench like he does, baby.

[druez]

Originally Posted by The_herd

Jason Williams
Eric Piatkowski
Keith Van Horn
Brian Cardinal
Brad Miller

Classic

Just a note to mention. I believe LB would rather have his detroit team then what he has now.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Look no further than Darko. Nobody guards a bench like he does, baby.

If I posted here more often I'd know the appropriate comment for a comment that made me chuckle. But since I don't and am not exactly sure how a trout fits into the equation I'll just go with

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Turthfully, I thought the same thing. Everytime I hear someone carping about how wrong it is for (pretty much all black) NBA players to leave school early or skip college, I wonder why the same standard does not apply in baseball.

Or even more so Hockey

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I didn't see a single minute of the last NBA season, and you all know how important sports are in my life. I just don't like the game, as it's played today.

I love the game of football as it's played today. With only a slightly lower percentage of black players in the game.

It's not racism. It's the aesthetics of sport. We all know that the best basketball teams do not do what NBA teams do. The NBA has to dumb itself down by outlawing effective defense, replacing it with outright muggings, because the league, for whatever reason, does not want to see effective offensive and defensive strategies. Dream on if you think the Pistons would perform even a tiny bit better on the international stage.

I'm really tired of being told what to think by stupid journalists. Both in politics and in sport. I don't like the NBA and it has nothing to do with the color of Allen Iverson, or even his tattoos. Political Correctness sucks, and right now, I'd say the left is just as intolerant as the right has ever been.

As for rooting in the Olympics, yeah, I don't mind seeing the US basketball team lose. For one reason only: I would like to watch an NBA game again during my life, and actually enjoy it. Perhaps their mediocre performance is a needed wakeup call.

So, the speculation here can go two ways:

1. Jim abhors the NBA. Hasn't watched a game in forever. Therefore, Front Office Basketball is entirely out of the question.
2. Jim abhors the NBA. Thinks the game needs a wake-up call. Therefore, Front Office Basketball is a mortal lock, as a good text sim that emphasizes fundamental team basketball is just what the game needs right now.

Discuss.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

So, the speculation here can go two ways:

1. Jim abhors the NBA. Hasn't watched a game in forever. Therefore, Front Office Basketball is entirely out of the question.
2. Jim abhors the NBA. Thinks the game needs a wake-up call. Therefore, Front Office Basketball is a mortal lock, as a good text sim that emphasizes fundamental team basketball is just what the game needs right now.

Discuss.

2a) Not only is FOB a mortal lock, but knowing the degree on analysis that erupts after his every utterance, he decides to throw everyone off the trail by claiming to despise professional basketball. Not only will the game feature fundamental basketball, the fake players will even be wearing fake miniature shorts for that old-school nutcrunching experience.

[Franklinnoble]

ola

Originally Posted by NoMyths

2a) Not only is FOB a mortal lock, but knowing the degree on analysis that erupts after his every utterance, he decides to throw everyone off the trail by claiming to despise professional basketball. Not only will the game feature fundamental basketball, the fake players will even be wearing fake miniature shorts for that old-school nutcrunching experience.

3) Knowing that Jim derives some warped pleasure over each bit of rampant speculation, Franklinnoble does his best to jack every thread Solecismic posts in towards this end, so that Jim will show favor upon his good and faithful servant, and thus grant his lifelong wish of a solid horse racing text based sim.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

ola
3) Knowing that Jim derives some warped pleasure over each bit of rampant speculation, Franklinnoble does his best to jack every thread Solecismic posts in towards this end, so that Jim will show favor upon his good and faithful servant, and thus grant his lifelong wish of a solid horse racing text based sim.

3a) This is, of course, assuming a benevolent Jim, rather than the sometimes capriciously evil Jim who might name all 5 ft, 300 lb PGs after Franklinnoble.

[Danny]

Now starting for the Rhode Island Turnpikes 5'8 600 pounds Franklin Noble.

[sterlingice]

If i say I don't like a team composed of Barry Bonds, half Yankees, a bunch of Red Sox, and Albert Belle, just for good measure does that make me a racist? I liked Dream Team I for it's novelty like most people and I really cheered for II with Hakeem. But there just aren't any players I've liked much on the last couple. Put Yao (oops, can't) or Steve Francis (like they need another 2-guard who can't shoot on the team but that's beside the point) on the team. How about our awesome senior trio of Simien, Langford, and Miles here at KU or the previous one of Collison, Hinrich, and Gooden and I'd watch. That's 2 more point guards then they really have out there now.

But, basically, I haven't really watched the NBA except for my team the past few years so I'm not going to get all upset if they get beat. If fact, being half Lithuanian, I'll be pulling for them when they play the US in this next game.

In the end, we have to keep in mind that this is Whitlock, the man who thinks that as long as he stirs up debate, his article is good (and he's said as much on numerous occasions). He just fails to realize that when he writes an article like this, the furor is not over the content of his article but his professionalism and shock that someone would actually have the gall to put forth what he suggests.

SI

[Danny]

Well, Im certainly not a staunch defender on the problems of NBA basketball, but I'm still rooting for the US 100%.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by EagleEye11

Or even more so Hockey

For the same reason as baseball - hockey has a minor league system that has been the traditional way for players to work their way up. The perceptions in the different sports about players skipping college are all about tradition and history, and have almost nothing to do with substance.

[CraigSca]

I'm sure this has probably already been stated, but I find my allegiances for the USA Basketball torn in two directions. On the one hand, I'm an American and therefore root for any American team/individual*. However, I also really dislike the one-on-one, isolation-style basketball played by the NBA. If an international team plays team-style, fundamentally sound basketball and happens to whomp the US because of it, I'm going to be disappointed and relieved. Disappointed that the US lost, but relieved that the powers-that-be will see where the problem lies (and therefore correct it).

I can't help but wonder what would happen if SOMEHOW, a coach could get the prima donnas in the NBA to respond to a motion-style offense, (with backdoor cuts, the extra pass, etc), along with a "40 (in this case 48) minutes of hell" defense. I know it will never happen - but I sometimes think that's all it would take for the NBA to wake-up and realize the "milk the clock for 20-seconds, dribble through your legs and throw a 20-foot brick" offense is just boring beyond all belief.

[druez]

Originally Posted by EagleEye11

Well, Im certainly not a staunch defender on the problems of NBA basketball, but I'm still rooting for the US 100%.

Makes sense, you are an eagles fan. People from Philly usually have high patriotisim. I'm assuming you are from the Philly area. It was injected into me from a young age growing up around there.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by druez

Makes sense, you are an eagles fan. People from Philly usually have high patriotisim. I'm assuming you are from the Philly area. It was injected into me from a young age growing up around there.

I've never heard this theory before. That Germans love David Hasselhof I knew, this I did not.