Ping: The One True Dark Jedi

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

And isn't "Ignorant Fucktard" redundant?

Oh, no. Not only no, but hell no!

You can be ignorant, or a fucktard, without being an "Ignorant Fucktard"

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by primelord

I am afraid I am going to need to see Webster's definition of Fucktard before I am willing to agree with this.

Ask and ye shall receive

Ok so it's an urban dictionary instead of Websters.. but it's still a divtionary right?

(I think they have entries for dola and HornsManiac as well)

[vtbub]

SD's error was more of equttitte(bad spelling) then anything.

If you know where it came from, saying thanks in a read me is the correct way of handling that. Usually, a modded piece of work will state that you may re-mod, but please give me credit for (x).

I don't mod often, but usually, a cut and paste below my own readme of all the assembled read me's used in the package covers all grounds.

Now he knows for next time.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Don't worry, you never had a chance of winning here. There are some of us that believe you should have been credited (along with anyone else).

Of course he should have, that's not the point. It's the hypocrisy of someone who does not give credit for the source of his work being upset that someone did not give credit to him when they used his work as the source that I find amusing (since no one is losing financially, this is more amusing than anything else) and where I think the lack of sympathy is coming from. As I said much earlier, I think they both made a mistake here.

[HornedFrog Purple]

All I know is if anyone else uses the name Mouse Tail Perry in a football sim, we are going to court.

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I'll ask again then, can I take Skydog's FOF research threads, post them as my own and not give him any credit?

Making a differentation for copyrighted material makes sense.

Technically, I'm not sure if you could take Skydog's FOF research threads, post them as my own and not give him any credit. I believe that Gamespy probably owns the rights to everything posted here because it is their forum.

When you create something (music, print, graphic) it is instantly copyrighted (1977 copyright act, IIRC). That is a very broad statement, but that is the gist.

But the ownership here is what I'm not sure. Maybe gamespy isn't like yahoo and relinquishes ownership to the forum mods or the actual author. I don't know.

If you mean "can I take Skydog's FOF research threads, post them as my own and not give him any credit?" and not have SkyDog pissed or in a tizzy. That, only Ben could answer. In all honesty, I would be willing to bet that he would make a stink about it, but after this thread I can guarantee you he wouldn't dream of it now. At least, he better not.

[gstelmack]

I'm just disappointed this thread stayed civil enough that it didn't get locked. I was really looking forward to being involved in my first debate that got locked ;-)

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Of course he should have, that's not the point. It's the hypocrisy of someone who does not give credit for the source of his work being upset that someone did not give credit to him when they used his work as the source that I find amusing (since no one is losing financially, this is more amusing than anything else) and where I think the lack of sympathy is coming from. As I said much earlier, I think they both made a mistake here.

I still don't quite understand the reasoning you have for expecting LL to list hundreds of photographers name in the readme to give credit for taking the photos.

The credit is given for compiling the photos, not for taking them.

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

Ben stepped on your toes, no doubt about it, but you really are over reacting. Next time if I were you, I would put LivinLegend across the bottom of the pics or your real name or your web site or whatever to distiguish them as yours. This way, you will have eternal credit.

I thought we were done with this. I did state earlier I was dropping the issue and that I had sent a PM to SkyDog that would hopefully put this issue to rest. I see some people want to continue carrying the banner for SkyDog's actions.

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

whomever talked about LL redoing Skydog's music and reselling it is way off base and is a totally different issue. Skydog's music is copyrighted and LL's facepack isn't copyrighted. Sure he did a lot of work on it, but it isn't his to sell.

CRIPES I'm not talking legality and copyright issues here, I was just asking for him to do the right thing and give credit where it was due and ask permission first. I asked him to apologize. He said he had nothing to apologize for. I asked him to remove my work from his file. He refused.

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

Would it have been nice for Ben to spend the time crediting the work? Sure, but he didn't. In the future, if you don't want somebody redistributing mod-material, don't put it out there. .

That's exactly the course of action I plan to take.
Thanks for the suggestion.

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Did it start out with: "Hey Vern!"

And isn't "Ignorant Fucktard" redundant?

You got me there, I can't compete with that reasoning.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

Technically, I'm not sure if you could take Skydog's FOF research threads, post them as my own and not give him any credit. I believe that Gamespy probably owns the rights to everything posted here because it is their forum.

When you create something (music, print, graphic) it is instantly copyrighted (1977 copyright act, IIRC). That is a very broad statement, but that is the gist.

But the ownership here is what I'm not sure. Maybe gamespy isn't like yahoo and relinquishes ownership to the forum mods or the actual author. I don't know.

If you mean "can I take Skydog's FOF research threads, post them as my own and not give him any credit?" and not have SkyDog pissed or in a tizzy. That, only Ben could answer. In all honesty, I would be willing to bet that he would make a stink about it, but after this thread I can guarantee you he wouldn't dream of it now. At least, he better not.

FYI, gamespy doesn't own content. That path has been forged by one of us during "The Move". Not me tho.

Things are also not instantly copyrighted, you must apply for it.

Yes of course that's what I meant. As in this case, it's not a legal issue but a courtesy and respect issue. You don't take other people's stuff and represent it as your own.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I'm just disappointed this thread stayed civil enough that it didn't get locked. I was really looking forward to being involved in my first debate that got locked ;-)

i'm sure even skydog was smart enough to realize that locking this thread would only exponentially make things worse.

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

It's the hypocrisy of someone who does not give credit for the source of his work being upset that someone did not give credit to him when they used his work as the source that I find amusing...

I am keeping within the context of the OOTP community. I edited and sized the photos for OOTP consumption. SkyDog took the work I did and re-released them on his own web space under his own name without any mention of my efforts. Why do you keep introducing red herrings to the issue?

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I'm just disappointed this thread stayed civil enough that it didn't get locked. I was really looking forward to being involved in my first debate that got locked ;-)

Sorry to disappoint you. I'm new here so I haven't figured out that it is okay to act like an asshole to other people in the gaming community you share.

[SirFozzie]

LivinLegend.. umm.. I'm sorry.. Even I, who have been known to fly off the handle.. well.. anytime.. could see the invisible "Humor" tags around it. I'm saddened that you couldn't.

[Senator]

I just want to add a post to this "geek thread", so when we talk about it in years to come, I can say I was here.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

Sorry to disappoint you. I'm new here so I haven't figured out that it is okay to act like an asshole to other people in the gaming community you share.

Seems to me you're figuring THAT out real quick

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Things are also not instantly copyrighted, you must apply for it.

FWIW, copyrights are instantly created. When you "apply for it," you are simply registering the copyright you already own with the federal government.

[Hammer755]

Come on guys, it's over. Let it die.

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Seems to me you're figuring THAT out real quick

You can say that again. I had no idea how rampant it is.

I've been involved in this community for several years and have championed its cause all that time. I am seeing a side of people I didn't know existed. It's pretty sobering.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

You can say that again. I had no idea how rampant it is.

I've been involved in this community for several years and have championed its cause all that time. I am seeing a side of people I didn't know existed. It's pretty sobering.

free hint: That whooshing sound you're hearing is my point (namely, you're starting to act like the asshole you're claiming we are acting like) going RIGHT over your head.

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by digamma

FWIW, copyrights are instantly created. When you "apply for it," you are simply registering the copyright you already own with the federal government.

Thanks. I was searching for a site to post to explain. Seems that you must register the material if you want to be able to Sue for damages. But if I write a poem on a napkin, that is an instantly copyrighted work.

[rkmsuf]

I think I copyrighted that "whooooshhh" today. Put me in the readme

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by digamma

FWIW, copyrights are instantly created. When you "apply for it," you are simply registering the copyright you already own with the federal government.

Then the intial copyright is pretty worthless unless you register it. Two people could post the same thing but the one who posted later could get it into the government 1st no?

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

free hint: That whooshing sound you're hearing is my point (namely, you're starting to act like the asshole you're claiming we are acting like) going RIGHT over your head.

I guess I did miss your point. What post of mine were you referring to?

[Raiders Army]

Ack. After reading this thread, I feel that all involved in this thread will go to Hell.

"Thou shalt not steal."

[vtbub]

As long as I'm in hell, can I have fries with that?

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Then the intial copyright is pretty worthless unless you register it. Two people could post the same thing but the one who posted later could get it into the government 1st no?

Absolutely. It is in your best interest to register a work, but the ambiguity gives many lawyers a job. (no offense Ksyrup et al).

Put it this way, the Copyright Act states that you do not have to register it and that copyright is instantly granted upon creation.

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Ack. After reading this thread, I feel that all involved in this thread will go to Hell.

"Thou shalt not steal."

You stole your name!

[Fonzie]

*slows down*


*rubbernecks*


*drives on by*

[SirFozzie]

After the line:And isn't "Ignorant Fucktard" redundant? (referring to my joke to Schmidty that If my title is to be renamed Lapdog Extraordinare, his should be Ignorant Fucktard

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

You got me there, I can't compete with that reasoning.

Completely missing the point that it A) wasn't even addressed to you, B) Meant humorously and the other half of the post that asked if you entitled your note to SD "Hey Vern" WAS addressed to you, but was humorous as well.

Then.. after someone jokingly complains that the thread wasn't locked down because we were civil to each other (a rarety when these brushfires breaks out)

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

Sorry to disappoint you. I'm new here so I haven't figured out that it is okay to act like an asshole to other people in the gaming community you share.

And then COMPLETELY missing the point when I pointed out that you were acting the same way that you were accusing us of acting

My God, LL, did you have a humor-ectomy or something, or were you born without the sense of humor?

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Then the intial copyright is pretty worthless unless you register it. Two people could post the same thing but the one who posted later could get it into the government 1st no?

There are obviously advantages to registering your copyright. One is the ability to sue for infringement. With regard to your specific question, as I understand it, the first person to register the copyright would have a prima facia case that the copyright was theirs in any infringement suit (brought by the person with the registration), however that wouldn't prevent me from actually presenting evidence to show that I owned the copyright prior to the registration or ultimately prevailing in the case.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

You stole your name!

True dat!

[LivnLegend]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

After the line:And isn't "Ignorant Fucktard" redundant? (referring to my joke to Schmidty that If my title is to be renamed Lapdog Extraordinare, his should be Ignorant Fucktard


Completely missing the point that it A) wasn't even addressed to you, B) Meant humorously and the other half of the post that asked if you entitled your note to SD "Hey Vern" WAS addressed to you, but was humorous as well.

Then.. after someone jokingly complains that the thread wasn't locked down because we were civil to each other (a rarety when these brushfires breaks out)

I am not as familiar with the "personalities" on this board. When the guy said he was disappointed the thread did not turn into a flame war, it seemed sincere. I used some sarcasm in saying I was sorry he was disappointed but I hardly think that makes me an "asshole" as you claim.

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

And then COMPLETELY missing the point when I pointed out that you were acting the same way that you were accusing us of acting

My God, LL, did you have a humor-ectomy or something, or were you born without the sense of humor?

I'd find it hard to believe someone would accuse me of having no sense of humor. I've posted 4000+ times on the OOTP board and hardly any of them have a tinge of seriousness.

If SkyDog had apologized up front rather than spin this on two message boards as him being some sort of victim, this would all be a moot point.
I am asking him to remove my work from his file. So far he's been pretty quiet after adding some fuel early (see his "Is this guy for real?" post earlier in the thread).

I've been civil and (in my mind) rational about this whole situation. You've flung a lot at me and on SkyDog's home turf no less. I said "you win! I drop the issue!" way back when but other people have picked up SkyDog's banner and ran with it since then, in some sort of effort to prove he was right and I was wrong. If that makes me an asshole on your board, at least I now know the definition.

[Buzzbee]

Hey, LivinLegend, SkyDog, and the rest of you, will you please give me credit for the 15 minutes of my life that you just stole from me?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Noop

This is to funny...FOBL constitution.... me thinks some follows take the game to serious...

Wow, this sentence is bad on so many levels.

edit: looks as though Schmidty already called you on this...

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

Hey, LivinLegend, SkyDog, and the rest of you, will you please give me credit for the 15 minutes of my life that you just stole from me?

It took you 15 minutes to read this?

[Raven Hawk]

Who wins the car? The question is moot. I win the car.

[Eaglesfan27]

I just want to say thank you to LL, Skydog, and anyone else who helped make that compilation of photos for fictional players in OOTP6. No matter how large or how small their part in the set's creation was I appreciate it.

[korme]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Oh, I think it's hit the mark entirely. There's a quote that applies here, don't you think.. the one about glass houses and stones. If LivinLegend had put together a list of sites/places he had grabbed the photos from, in a Thank You file, (I can't say that he has, I haven't downloaded the file), then I would expect any other to respect that same rule. But apparently (and I have to stress that), LivinLegend expects to do one thing with other people's work.., and expects others to do another when they deal with HIS work..

Oh come on Fozz, that's ridiculous. LL did hours of work (I can sympathize, before creating faces for the JBL I used to do what LL did for JBL's private use. HOURS OF WORK.), this should not be an arguement. I agree SkyDog had no ill intentions but should probably find out everyone who made the files and appropriately credit them. LL is a stand up guy and has presented himself nicely in this thread so I am surprised so many people are getting on him like this.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Raven Hawk

Who wins the car? The question is moot. I win the car.

Well you will at least win the car 2/3 of the time if you switch doors. Otherwise you will end up with a goat.

[Fonzie]

Ooh! Ooh! I was quoted in the OOTP thread! I was part of a flame war and didn't even know it. How fun!

[Ben E Lou]

Been away. Unbelievable that this is three-pager. I HAVE to respond to these two thing, and maybe some others as I read all of this...

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

SkyDog then took my work, combined it with others, and released it as his own back to the OOTP community.

Released it as my own???? This has been my bone of contention from the start. In the thread with the link, it clearly states:

There are over 4,000 face shots for fictional players included in the zip file. All of your fictional players will be assigned a photo. Thanks to those who helped me figure out how to do this (Draft Dodger & Shorty3281), and to the guys who actually made these facepacks. (This is a compilation of the facepack work of 4 or 5 different people.)

As I said over at OOTP, I had no CLUE who "the guys who actually made these facepacks" were at the time I did the upload early this morning. That was the very best I could do, and you respond to me like I'm some sort of 'net criminal. Sheesh.

Again, I sent him an earnest PM. If the guy is admirable as you seem to state by your backing of him, I hope he does the right thing.

The PM you sent me used the exact same words as the original message board post: in other words, a VERY accusatory tone.

You also seem to be forgetting that in my response to your PM (and in the public response as well...I copied and pasted after responding to the PM when I realized you'd chosen to attack me not just in private but in public as well), I included:

Would it be better if I put your name in the information?

I've got nothing to gain from "taking credit" for this. (Again, who cares about credit anyway?)

[Senator]

Who wrote this for you Shorty? These are not the words of a drunken youth!

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by primelord

It took you 15 minutes to read this?

And the other two threads over at OOTP that were referenced earlier in this thread.

Besides, I'm trying to slow down my thinking so that I can better prepare a game plan for the Rhinos. Trying to walk in the shoes of my opponent.

[SirFozzie]

*laughs* LL, if we were TRYING to run with your hissy fit, there would be about 300 posts on it. As things are going, you just keep throwing logs on the fire.

And your continued complaints after I brought up that SD did the EXACT same thing you did (Taking other people's work, thanking them with a vague statement in the file), doesn't just make you an asshole.

It makes you a hypocrite.

[korme]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

LL Said "Thank you to the folks whose photos I used to create this photopack"

SD said "Thank you to the folks who created the photopacks that I combined for this combined download"

You're right, DD. It doesn't have to be this hard.

You obviously have no idea about how much time LL invested into this project.

[Senator]

Skydog, what have you learned from this fiasco?

[primelord]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Been away. Unbelievable that this is three-pager.

You apparently don't know this board very well.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

And the other two threads over at OOTP that were referenced earlier in this thread.

Besides, I'm trying to slow down my thinking so that I can better prepare a game plan for the Rhinos. Trying to walk in the shoes of my opponent.

Ouch. Touche.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Senator

Skydog, what have you learned from this fiasco?

unfortunately, it looks like the answer is "nothing".

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by LivnLegend

I did. I already stated I sent him a PM first. I won't divulge the info in his PM but needless to say, his response caused me to take the issue up publicly.

You, sir, are full of it. You're trying to make people think that I said something to you in a PM that I didn't say in public. Here's my PM:

Private Message: Re: photo pack

SkyDog
Front Office Football Central



Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tucker, GA
Posts: 632

Here's my public response:

SkyDog
Front Office Football Central



Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tucker, GA
Posts: 632

SkyDog

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I sent the PM first, then copied, pasted, and made a few small changes to the public message. I do NOT appreciate being mischaracterized one single solitary bit, which is why I responded the way I responded to you in the first place. A non-accusatory PM or public message, commiserate with the "offense", my obvious intentions, and that which I had made clear publicly, and you would have gotten a simple response.