Corey Dillon traded to....

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by scooper

Well, we just got our Palmer safety net. Kitna has extended his contract through 2005, lowering his cap his for 2004. At least he won't be a 4+million back-up.

Definitely a good move for Cincy.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Doubtful. Taking a pay cut from 3.75 to 1.5 speaks volumes. Unless he's just a compulsive liar, his comments indicate he's ready to roll with a winning orgainization.

I admit it is a possibility that he has grown up, however you are asking me to ignore seven years of selfish petulance and put my faith in a single act. Kind of a stretch for me.

[Franklinnoble]

It's funny to watch all the Bengals fans have heated debates about these things, as if the team will do anything but suck this year.









Just kidding... I think Marvin Lewis is making a lot of smart moves, and I applaud the overdue ouster of Dillon...

[Butter]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

But I think an Akili Smith analogy actually works better.

1 good year in college. Better QB succeeds them immediately. And obviously, both are drafted by the Bengals.

Yes, but Klingler sucked and....

ok, I got nothin'.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Yes, but Klingler sucked and....

ok, I got nothin'.

I should've thrown the Pac-10 in there too.

[scooper]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Doubtful. Taking a pay cut from 3.75 to 1.5 speaks volumes. Unless he's just a compulsive liar, his comments indicate he's ready to roll with a winning orgainization.

Trust me, I watched him for seven seasons. He complained about losing twice: Once when his contract was coming up and he ended up getting a fat new one and once when the team was actually winning and he wasn't "the man" anymore.

I'm sure the pay cut was decided before the trade and the trade was probably contingent on that happening. With his age, injury issues and attitude, added to the fact that most teams are against the cap by June 1, he probably got from NE about what he would have gotten on the Market after being cut in June.

I'll say it again. Corey's had attitude issues since before he was drafted. Losing didn't cause it.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by scooper

Trust me, I watched him for seven seasons. He complained about losing twice: Once when his contract was coming up and he ended up getting a fat new one and once when the team was actually winning and he wasn't "the man" anymore.

I'm sure the pay cut was decided before the trade and the trade was probably contingent on that happening. With his age, injury issues and attitude, added to the fact that most teams are against the cap by June 1, he probably got from NE about what he would have gotten on the Market after being cut in June.

I'll say it again. Corey's had attitude issues since before he was drafted. Losing didn't cause it.

Well find out but so did Brian Cox and Antoine Smith

[Butter]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I should've thrown the Pac-10 in there too.

Now you're just showing off. Bastard.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Well find out but so did Brian Cox and Antoine Smith

Bryan Cox was always a team player. None of his supposed 'attitude' issues were ever conflicts with the team he was with, they were with the league for his emotional displays on the field.

Antowain Smith's attitude problems were always about him being lazy. Except for his first season with the Pats, he had that problem there too.

Neither had conflicts as frequently and as publicly as Dillon.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Bryan Cox was always a team player. None of his supposed 'attitude' issues were ever conflicts with the team he was with, they were with the league for his emotional displays on the field.

Antowain Smith's attitude problems were always about him being lazy. Except for his first season with the Pats, he had that problem there too.

Neither had conflicts as frequently and as publicly as Dillon.

Besides last season what were Dillon's transgressions?

[cthomer5000]

Brian Cox always just struck me as being a little more crazy than malcontent. I mean like actually nuts.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Brian Cox always just struck me as being a little more crazy than malcontent. I mean like actually nuts.

What gave you that impression? Spitting at people or the flipping off the fans?

[scooper]

[quote=Franklinnoble]It's funny to watch all the Bengals fans have heated debates about these things, as if the team will do anything but suck this year.
[quote]

Heh Heh. We had a rough 12 years. We're not used to all of this acting like a real NFL franchise stuff. You'll have to forgive us if we get a bit out of hand.

[scooper]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Besides last season what were Dillon's transgressions?

We'll start with the legal issues. I know growing up there was the drug dealing issue and a lengthy criminal record as a teen. Then as a pro there was the DUI and the wife beating issue.

His academic record was not spotless and he was was at three colleges, each for only one year.

This season was bad, with his in the media "trade me" antics culminating with dissing pro-bowler, team captain and good guy Willie Anderson. Dillon even physically threatened Willie on the Best Damn Sports Show. Where he also dissed another team player-Rudi Johnson. Keep in mind, this started as the team was winning. Oh and lets not forget being the only play under contract to not attend a mini-camp and then turning around and showing up to training camp a day late.

His other transgression came a couple years back with the infamous "I'd rather flip hamburgers" comment and threats to never play here again. But when the team stroked his ego and flashed big money, he seemed to forget about his threats and that the team actually sucked.

I've spoken with an acquaintence who works within the organization and I have a relative who dated a Bengal currently on the roster. From both I heard that Corey has been a stand-offish locker room presence for a long time and really didn't buy into Marvin Lewis or his program.

[rkmsuf]

One thing with Dillon is he clearly is not a team leader and in Cincy he was asked to carry much of the load of the entire franchise being the focus as the best player. In NE he is one of the guys and that may be a big relief to him. Maybe not but well see...

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

One thing with Dillon is he clearly is not a team leader and in Cincy he was asked to carry much of the load of the entire franchise being the focus as the best player. In NE he is one of the guys and that may be a big relief to him. Maybe not but well see...

Yes, it could go that way. In Cincy, he was clearly the best player on the team, at least until last year. Perhaps being allowed to just be a running back while the media focuses their attention on Brady and Belicheck, he will not have problems.

[scooper]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

One thing with Dillon is he clearly is not a team leader and in Cincy he was asked to carry much of the load of the entire franchise being the focus as the best player. In NE he is one of the guys and that may be a big relief to him. Maybe not but well see...

No. I understand Pats fans looking to find the silver lining in his attitude and blame it on the Bengals. But-I'll repeat what I said earlier- Corey's attitude became an issue this past season while the Bengals were winning and he was no longer "the man."

Corey wants to be in the spotlight. He wants to be #1. With Marvin, that was no longer the case. The Bengals were a much much MUCH worse team in 2002, but Corey was the face of the team and was getting a lot of carries and attention. He never complained once during that season.

In 2003, the play improved and they were in the playoff hunt until the last week. But Corey became at best the third most visible member of the franchise and that's when the troubles started.

[rkmsuf]

I don't think anyone blames the Bengals for anything. Dillon has had a checkered past no doubt. What remains to be seen is the fit in a new organization. If he's going to do well NE is the place.

He will always be a bad guy in Cincy but well see what kind of legacy he writes as a Pat. I'll take the optimistic view that he fits in.

[scooper]

Hey, I've been a Bengals fan for years, I have no problem with optimism.


I just see a couple of prevailing thoughts here as being false. One is the "he will be happy when he wins" thought. His attitude was always bad, except when shown the money. His worst outburst happened last season when the team was actually winning and competing for a playoff spot.

The other is "he will be happier when he doesn't have to be the man." Actually, he is happier when he IS the man. He was unhappy this season in spite of winning because others such as Marvin, Chad Johnson and Rudi were getting the attention and were responsible for the turnaround.

Look, from a football point of view, I think he fits very well with NE's needs. I think the trade is great for both teams. I'm just warning Pats fans that simply getting him out of Cincinnati won't make him a different person. He came into this league with attitude issues. Here is a story from his rookie season.

Bengals rookie running back Corey Dillon isn't happy with his state of lace>Washingtonlace>.

Particularly the lace>University of Washingtonlace>, where he set six school records in eight games last season.

"Not all of the coaches, some of the coaches," Dillon said Wednesday, two days before the Bengals play his hometown Seahawks at Cinergy Field. "One minute, they're praising you. Then you want to go, and they want to bad mouth me . . .

"The coaching staff at the lace>University of Washingtonlace> has no worries in the world. I have all the worries in the world. I'm a struggling college student. I have to feed my folks. If they can't understand that, then to heck with them."

Dillon, from lace>Seattlelace>'s tough Central District, finds it curious his past became an issue only after he decided to leave Washington early, his third school in three years. He played at two junior colleges: lace>DixieCollegelace> in lace>St. George, Utahlace>, and Garden City (lace>Kan.lace>).

He is upset coaches questioned why he didn't stay in one place for more than a year. He's also still fuming over the allegation he sold crack cocaine when he was 15.

According to published reports, Dillon was found guilty of conspiring to deliver two rocks of cocaine to undercover police officers. But he said he didn't have it on him, that it belonged to a person he was with and he didn't know the person had crack.

"I want people to go back, please, and check any juvenile file or whatever," said Dillon, 21. "And I guarantee it will state I never sold any substance to any undercover cop ever.

"I'm glad to be out of (lace>Seattlelace>) in some sense, but it's my home, too. My family is there. I'll go back. It's all I know. I'm not saying the whole city is bad. I'm just saying some people in the city . . . all these accusations came out when I wanted to come out of school and turn pro."

Dillon's all-out running has received nothing but rave reviews from his coaches, and Bengals' fans have taken to a bruising style accounting for 4 yards per carry.

[Kodos]

It's a safe bet that Corey Dillon is near the top of my list of NFL jerks.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It's a safe bet that Corey Dillon is near the top of my list of NFL jerks.

And yet, managed to escape the magnetic fields surrounding Baltimore and Oakland.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

There are certainly some character issues involved, but I have faith in Belichick on this. He won't stand for malcontents (e.g. Terry Glenn - see ya', thanks Green Bay), and so I have to think they have thought this one out. If not, with no signing bonus involved, they can pretty much cut his ass if they need to (although the draft pick will still be lost). I think it's worth it.

[scooper]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

There are certainly some character issues involved, but I have faith in Belichick on this. He won't stand for malcontents (e.g. Terry Glenn - see ya', thanks Green Bay), and so I have to think they have thought this one out. If not, with no signing bonus involved, they can pretty much cut his ass if they need to (although the draft pick will still be lost). I think it's worth it.

As a Bengals fan who is thrilled beyond belief to get a second for Mr. Malignancy, I'll have to agree with you that this is certainly worth the gamble for the Pats. A second is a lot to give for a guy with Cancer Dillon's questions, but they have multiple early picks with few holes to fill so they can take a chance.

[RendeR]

It seems that no-one really reads my posts, no matter the topic.

I said in my initial post that it all depends on Palmer, "if he lights up the league" they go 13-3 possibly. I'm NOT betting on that happening.

"if he plays at kitna's level" they repeat 8-8 with a chance at 10-6

Why am I smoking weed or the "most optimistic fan ever" for making these very guarded projections?

We split with all 3 teams in the division last year. Cleveland is WORSE than before, Pittsburgh games were split on QB heroics, and the baltimore games were blowouts at each home stadium.

Pittsburgh has a new offensive coordinator and no real QB, no running game, their defense is suspect but should improve a bit with Lebeau back. We have the talent and the coaching to win both pitt games, we sweep cleveland because frankly, cleveland is pushing arizona for worst team title. We split with baltimore because we always split with baltimore. thats 5-1 and its not that optimistic, its pretty logical.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by RendeR

It seems that no-one really reads my posts, no matter the topic.

I said in my initial post that it all depends on Palmer, "if he lights up the league" they go 13-3 possibly. I'm NOT betting on that happening.

"if he plays at kitna's level" they repeat 8-8 with a chance at 10-6

Why am I smoking weed or the "most optimistic fan ever" for making these very guarded projections?

I think you would have to revise "lights up the league" to "has the best season in history" to go 13-3.

13-3 is just an insanely unrealisitc expectation. How often does any team go 13-3? And the Bengals are questionable at enough areas (RB, DB, QB).. that there is no reason to think they can possible go 13-3.

[RendeR]

semantics, yes he would have to have an unbelievable season for it to happen. But I also think people underestimate what the Bengals can do. I truly believe that Palmer will be more consistant and accurate than Kitna, and that alone should account for 2 more wins than last season.

See my edit above, 5-1 in the division, we should beat buffalo, both new York teams and the redskins, thats 9 wins that SHOULD be expected of any team in our position.

another 1-4 wins in the remaining 7 puts us in the playoffs.

[RendeR]

dola, though I will add that others have mentioned correctly, if Palmer doesn't pan out, we revert to the Bungals of old. My Optimism says this won't happen because Lewis has truly changed the mentality in Cincy. Only time will tell.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by RendeR

semantics, yes he would have to have an unbelievable season for it to happen. But I also think people underestimate what the Bengals can do. I truly believe that Palmer will be more consistant and accurate than Kitna, and that alone should account for 2 more wins than last season.

See my edit above, 5-1 in the division, we should beat buffalo, both new York teams and the redskins, thats 9 wins that SHOULD be expected of any team in our position.

another 1-4 wins in the remaining 7 puts us in the playoffs.

13 wins just won't happen. I'd wager a whole lot of money on it. And you're also crazy to assume 5-1 in the division. Look at the year-end standings for any year- it's very, very rare to find a team that does that well in division. I think 4-2 is much more plausible, while 3-3 is more likely.

Baltimore is just a better team right now. In fact, Kyle Boller is more likely to "light up the league" since he actually played half the season last year.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Baltimore is just a better team right now. In fact, Kyle Boller is more likely to "light up the league" since he actually played half the season last year.

This is a complete crock. Baltimore has a great defense, and they have a great RB. beyond that, they have nothing, their offensive line has one quality player (ogden) their QB Boller is not going to be an NFL starter, sorry folks, he's just not the real thing. And they have no receivers at all. heap might be a good tight end, but if he keeps getting his head knocked off because of the bad throws from boller and wright, he won't survive a season.

I also think you over exaggerate cincinnati's weaknesses. I don't see palmer as questionable, I think at worst and I mean absolute worst, he's another kitna with a stronger arm. anything else is a serious improvement. Johnson may not be barry sanders but he IS consistant and a team player, he gets the load and carries it all year. no real questionmark there.

We DO need improvement on the D-line and at DB, with the depth in the draft at both position, I think we can improve there, lifting our defense into the top half in the league from 25th I think last season.

this is of course all conjecture, I've lived with the misery for 15 years now, this is the first season that I haven't looked ahead and gone *wow, can't wait for this one to end*

I'm actually starting to believe they can regain the respect they once had in the NFL. in the 70's and 80's people didn't want to play the Bengals, because it was NEVER an easy game to win. The 1990's were like a black hole and climbing out of it is going to take time.

and yes, its going to take winning and winning big to really get the monkey off our backs =)

[albionmoonlight]

Kitna played really well last year. I think that it would be hard for any "rookie" QB to match that level of play.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by RendeR

(Baltimore being a better team than Cincy) is a complete crock.

Yes, it is. They are going to be more one-dimensional this year than ever. That dimension is powerful, but who thinks Jamal Lewis will get anywhere near 2,000 yards again this year? Boller had the lowest passer rating of any AFC regular QB last year, and Anthony Wright is not a good signal-caller. Baltimore's D is good, but it is not as good as it has been in the past.

Originally Posted by RendeR

I've lived with the misery for 15 years now, this is the first season that I haven't looked ahead and gone *wow, can't wait for this one to end*

I share your enthusiasm. Let's get this draft going! I just hope they don't take Chris Gamble in the first round.

[cthomer5000]

So you guys seem to believe that Boller getting playing time will make him worse than Palmer sitting on the bench all season? Interesting.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

So you guys seem to believe that Boller getting playing time will make him worse than Palmer sitting on the bench all season? Interesting.

I think that Palmer has a chance to be a good QB in the league, but I doubt he will set the league on fire this year. I happen to think that Boller will suck for all time. Experience only counts if it makes you better - something unlikely to happen to Boller.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I happen to think that Boller will suck for all time. Experience only counts if it makes you better - something unlikely to happen to Boller.

Bingo.

[WSUCougar]

Well, Carolina went 11-5 and continued on to the Super Bowl last year, and few if any predicted that. While I agree that 13-3 is pretty far-fetched, I don't think it's so absurd to think that the Bengals might make a quantum leap with their record and on into the playoffs.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Well, Carolina went 11-5 and continued on to the Super Bowl last year, and few if any predicted that. While I agree that 13-3 is pretty far-fetched, I don't think it's so absurd to think that the Bengals might make a quantum leap with their record and on into the playoffs.

and this, based on all the facts I've posted in this thread, is exatly what I believe. 13-3 would be the ultimate, we are gods type of season, but will that happen? I don't believe so. is it the high end of the Bell-curve of possibility? sure.

Like I've said twice, its all on Palmer, if he truly is the franchise man we've been hoping for since Boomer retired, we're going to have a decade of positive football in the Ohio river valley.

Go Bengals!


and as for the draft, I'm not sure Gamble is worth a 1st round pick, he's awfully raw, but that raw talent is at a very impressive level. it wouod be a real reach. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll be there at the second round spot =(

can't wait for saturday!

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Bingo.

double-bingo

[scooper]

Realistically, I'm hoping for a 10-6 type season. This schedule is just too hard, and I think Palmer will take his lumps early.

I think the North crown will be a battle between the Bengals and the Ratbirds again, just like last season. I'd give the slight nod to Baltimore right now, but you never know, and the Bengals offense can score on that defense, they did it at Paul Brown Stadium last season.

And no, I don't think Boller's half year of experience gives him an edge over Palmer. Experience alone doesn't make one better. And I'm not exactly sure who Boller will be throwing the ball to. The Ratbirds look like their passing game will hinge on a second round rookie WR. Their running game should be slightly better and their defense much better, but their passing game, I don't think will come near Cincinnati's.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is a complete crock. Baltimore has a great defense, and they have a great RB. beyond that, they have nothing,

Whoa, you just lost your own argument. Defense is everything (and a good running game helps too). Every year. Until the Bengal SIGNIFIGANTLY upgrade on D, they will be hardpressed to win even 9 or 10 games this year. This is where Baltimore has you. 5-1 in the division is very unrealistic. The Pats went 14-2, and still were only 5-1 in the AFC East.

Since when did this become a Bengals thread anyways. I thought this was more for us Pats worshippers to pat each on the back. Get outta here.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Pittsburgh has a new offensive coordinator and no real QB, no running game, their defense is suspect but should improve a bit with Lebeau back. We have the talent and the coaching to win both pitt games, we sweep cleveland because frankly, cleveland is pushing arizona for worst team title. We split with baltimore because we always split with baltimore. thats 5-1 and its not that optimistic, its pretty logical.

I hope Staley helps the steelers running game a bit. *Crossing fingers* that he returns to form.

[scooper]

Really, what the Steelers need is an identity. They tried that spread offense and had some success, and why not? They certainly have the WR's for it. But I'm not so sure about the QB for it.

Come on, this is the Steelers. They need to pound the ball and play keep-away. That's how they dominated the division in the 90's.

I'm a Bengals fan, but I'm also a Notre Dame fan and the Bus remains one of my all time favorite players-except when he was gaining his many 100 yard games against the Bengals. I think the Staley move will take some pressure and burden off of him and let him contribute what he can and end his career gracefully with the team he should end it with. If he doesn't have to run 20 times a game, they can still get a good year or two out of him.

Of course, that does depend on Staley returning to form.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pitt take a RB in the 3rd or 4th this year. There are some decent power backs in that area.

Heck, the Bengals got Rudi in the fourth a couple years ago. He would have been a great RB for the Steelers' power running game. I'm just glad he's not.

[cthomer5000]

Personally, I would bet against Duce Staley being much of a factor.

[scooper]

I think he's an upgrade over Zeroaue (sp?) Not that Amos can't be a good back-his style just didn't fit their needs. It goes back to that offensive identity crisis that I think Pittsburg's been having.