Todd Bertuzzi breaks Steve Moore's neck

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Subby

druez should argue about something he knows about...like football text sims.

Oh wait...

dude, he's been to 3 lacrosse games...that counts for something...

[druez]

sigh, I made a statement there are alot of fights in Lacrosse in indoor and outdoor lacrosse. Well its been proven there are alot in indoor its part of the sport and outdoor is up for debate. It depends on what you deam as alot.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Subby

druez should argue about something he knows about...like football text sims.

Oh wait...

Yep you know so much don't you. I read all your reviews and love them, wait you didn't write any.

[Maple Leafs]

The discussion about fighting in hockey is valid and worthwhile, but the connection to the Bertuzzi incident is pretty tenuous. Yes, he used his fist. That doesn't make it a fight, any more than a vicious highstick is a slap shot.

For whatever it's worth, I'm one of those strange people who does believe in a "code" in hockey. I realize some people find that idea unthinkable, but there it is. And according to the code, Moore did the right thing. He dropped his gloves earlier in the game. That should have been it. He's not obligated to fight every guy on the other team in a 9-2 game.

Bertuzzi broke the code, not Moore.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by druez

Yep you know so much don't you. I read all your reviews and love them, wait you didn't write any.

So, you have "PROVEN" that fights happen "ALOT" because you have been to 3 games and a fight, some wrestling around, and some pushing occurred. (By the way, you are being made fun of because the proper terminology is a lot - two separate words.)

You have also "PROVEN" that Subby doesn't know much because he didn't write a game review.

Face it, you made a statement and someone who is more knowledgeable than you on the subject called you on it. Admit you were wrong and move on. Also, based on your statement, writing game reviews instantly qualifies someone as knowing a lot. (See, I said "a lot" instead of "alot" to give you a good example)

{Edit: Hmmm. I was soooo silly. All that time in school wasted. All I had to do was write a game review. Stupid me. Well, off to play Asteroids so I can be smart.}

[tauter]

This thread is making my boring afternoon much better, oh wait, "ALOT" better.

[Fritz]

the grammar nazis are out in force today.

[cuervo72]

It appears a grammar flogging has been "deamed" necessary.

(don't forget "its", either)

[Fritz]

you are being a dick

[tauter]

Originally Posted by Fritz

you are being a dick

{Beavis voice}Are you threatening me?{/Beavis voice}

[cuervo72]

I'll accept that.

We need something else to do on Tuesdays....

(edit: because by Wednesday, we're bouncing off the walls)

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

(don't forget "tits", either)

I rarely do...

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I rarely do, I wear a manbra

I see

[tauter]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

(edit: because by Wednesday, we're bouncing off the walls)

Speaking of bouncing, where is NM with our hookers and blow?

[Subby]

Originally Posted by druez

Yep you know so much don't you. I read all your reviews and love them, wait you didn't write any.

What's funny is I DID read your reviews

[druez]

Originally Posted by tauter

This thread is making my boring afternoon much better, oh wait, "ALOT" better.

I did ALOT or A LOT or Alota research on the subject to see if I was talking out of my ass.

http://198.93.127.18/default.asp

Anyway, there are quite a few fights at the major league level. You only receive an ejection from the current game if you receive one at all. Based on the comments by the fans there are usually a couple of fights a week.

Go read and thanks and have a nice day. You figure a coach would know more about this stuff then me.

BTW its a no brainer that it would be illegal in NCAA rules, just like NCAA hockey.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

So, you have "PROVEN" that fights happen "ALOT" because you have been to 3 games and a fight, some wrestling around, and some pushing occurred. (By the way, you are being made fun of because the proper terminology is a lot - two separate words.)

You have also "PROVEN" that Subby doesn't know much because he didn't write a game review.

Face it, you made a statement and someone who is more knowledgeable than you on the subject called you on it. Admit you were wrong and move on. Also, based on your statement, writing game reviews instantly qualifies someone as knowing a lot. (See, I said "a lot" instead of "alot" to give you a good example)

{Edit: Hmmm. I was soooo silly. All that time in school wasted. All I had to do was write a game review. Stupid me. Well, off to play Asteroids so I can be smart.}

Well it would writing game reviews does mean I'm reviewing the products and the other people are not. The fact I played every version he produced, I suppose would give me some credibility. The fact I'm a beta tester for various different games might give me some credibility. The fact that I work in a software development group for my real job might help also.

Its pretty easy to critizise when you aren't doing the reviews yourself. Not sure why you would have a problem with my review of FOF football, I gave it one of its highest ratings and I told everyone to go buy it. But whatever.

[Mota]

A lot of people seem to bring up the fact that the instigator rule prevents people from getting even.

If the referees called the game properly and punished the people who did the cheap shots, dirty hits, etc. then there wouldn't be a need to get even. Maybe that's what we should be looking at?

The reason the game has degraded to clutching, grabbing, dirty hits, etc. is because they're allowed to do it. It gives the low skill players that advantage over the skilled players, so if that's their way to make it in the NHL, of course they're going to do it.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by druez

Well it would writing game reviews does mean I'm reviewing the products and the other people are not. The fact I played every version he produced, I suppose would give me some credibility. The fact I'm a beta tester for various different games might give me some credibility. The fact that I work in a software development group for my real job might help also.

You would think. However, that doesn't seem to be the case, does it?

Its pretty easy to critizise when you aren't doing the reviews yourself. Not sure why you would have a problem with my review of FOF football, I gave it one of its highest ratings and I told everyone to go buy it. But whatever.

I never criticized your review, and I don't have a problem with your review of FOF. You can put THAT card back in your deck.

I disagree that sound is something that is a desirable addition, but that is a matter of opinion, and a horse we've already beaten.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by druez

If it was a close game I would buy that, but the game was out of reach at that time.

Yes, you are right. That puts it in a different light for me. I didn't think about the score at the time.

[Buzzbee]

Question regarding the injury:

Does anyone know, or have reliable information about, exactly when Steve Moore's neck was broken? Was it a result of Bertuzzi hitting him in the head, or was it a result of hitting the ice?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by druez

Only because of the seriousness of the freak accident are we even talking about this.

Freak accident?!

This was no accident.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

Question regarding the injury:

Does anyone know, or have reliable information about, exactly when Steve Moore's neck was broken? Was it a result of Bertuzzi hitting him in the head, or was it a result of hitting the ice?

He hit the ice because Bertuzzi hit him in the head. So the root cause is the cheap shot hit, no matter how you look at it.

That being said, I'm pretty sure there would be no way to tell when exactly it happened.

[Travis]

More than likely happened when he hit the ice, but in large part is probably due to the fact that Bertuzzi was riding him down and (while debateable) appears to be trying to drive Moore's head into the ice on the way.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by tauter

Speaking of bouncing, where is NM with our hookers and blow?

Sorry...got stuck in Polish customs with them, and the nice young lady soldier refused to take a kilo to "look the other way." Luckily a member of our entourage threw a solid lacrosse check her way and now I'm back where I began, shaking my head at the sorry lack of writing ability possessed by a 'published (online) game reviewer'.

[Sun Tzu]

Thread homicide anyone?

[Mota]

This thread jumped the shark.

[cuervo72]

It limboed the elephant too.

[Buddy Grant]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I'm done with fighting in the NHL. I used to think it had it's place, but if they outlaw all of this...make it illegal to punch a guy delibertly, at least, maybe this sort of thing will end.

Yes, yes, I'm tired of defending hockey violence.

[Karim]

Growing up with the sport, I completely understand the "code", right or wrong.

I remember in grade 6 we were playing ball hockey during recess on school grounds. A friend of mine made the mistake of slashing the class "jock" (if you can be considered a jock at 12 years old) who then proceeded to pummel him. After consoling my friend we decided to approach the teacher who was "supervising"; the teacher also happened to be a former NHL goalie. His response was not surprising: "That's hockey."

Having grown up with the Battle of Alberta during the glory years, I've watched the code in full effect, and some of those playoffs series were sensational. Violent, yes, but sensational nonetheless.

On the other hand the Canada Cups, World Cups and Olympics (with professionals) are also among the best games I've ever seen and had the added benefit of highlighting the game to NON-hockey fans. This is probably what the NHL should strive to emulate on a league-wide basis.

The answers aren't easy but with the impending CBA negotiations, now is the time to address them.

[Karim]

dola,

For those who have yet to seen the incident in question...

hxxp://members.shaw.ca/dmc/BertuzziSuckerPunch.wmv

[druez]

Originally Posted by Karim

dola,

For those who have yet to seen the incident in question...

hxxp://members.shaw.ca/dmc/BertuzziSuckerPunch.wmv

Is there any video that shows them jawing before bertuzzi went after him.

[tucker342]

Actually he did have it coming, I guess last month he got in a cheap shot in a game. Of course that doesn't make what Bertuzzi did alright. He should be arrested for that shit

[Karim]

Top ten most violent hockey acts:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/top...lights.html#10

Globe & Mail article on how it will be difficult to eliminate the "code":
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...BNStory/Sports

[Glengoyne]

I think the old schoolers are gonna have to come to Jesus on this one. The Thuggery has got to go. NCAA and Olympic Hockey is a better product than the NHL, and the intolerance of fighting is the reason why. Yes the enforcers will lose their jobs, but guys who can play hockey will replace them.

My unfortunate fact of the day is:
Although the NHL should take a stand to stop the fighting, and MLB should stand up to the union regarding drug testing, neither of them will. Both leagues will suffer as a result.

[bhlloy]

NCAA and Olympic Hockey is a better product than the NHL, and the intolerance of fighting is the reason why.

Both of those statements are completely subjective to your opinion.

Lots of people don't think NCAA and Olympic Hockey are better products than the NHL, and of the people who do think it is a better product many would say it's because of the larger rink sizes and more attacking rules and mindset rather than the lack of fighting.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, Bertuzzi got suspended for the rest of the season (including playoffs) and Vancouver was assessed a $250,000 fine.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by tucker342

Actually he did have it coming, I guess last month he got in a cheap shot in a game.

He put a hit on Naslund that may or may not have been dirty. Vancouver took exception, but rather than do something about it the next time they played Colorado, in a close game in Colorado, they waited until they were getting blown out by the Avalanche in Vancouver.

While Moore may have had something coming to answer for the hit on Naslund, I think most of us would agree that it wasn't a sucker punch from Bertuzzi, and certainly not an outright blindside assault.

Also getting overlooked in the whole "eye for an eye" discussion is that Moore did get in a fight earlier in the game. Maybe the problem was that by all accounts, he won the fight.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

NCAA and Olympic Hockey is a better product than the NHL, and the intolerance of fighting is the reason why.

Olympic hockey is better than the NHL because it features the very best players in the world.

I can't imagine how anyone could watch NCAA hockey and even compare it to the quality of the NHL game, but of course we all have the right to our opinion.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Btw, Bertuzzi got suspended for the rest of the season (including playoffs) and Vancouver was assessed a $250,000 fine.

A good punishment, IMO.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I think the old schoolers are gonna have to come to Jesus on this one. The Thuggery has got to go. NCAA and Olympic Hockey is a better product than the NHL, and the intolerance of fighting is the reason why. Yes the enforcers will lose their jobs, but guys who can play hockey will replace them.

My unfortunate fact of the day is:
Although the NHL should take a stand to stop the fighting, and MLB should stand up to the union regarding drug testing, neither of them will. Both leagues will suffer as a result.

The thuggery has left since the 80's.

The NHL should spend more time deal with malicious hits and head-hunting rather than get rid of fighting all together. Fighting is part of the game...period.

[Buddy Grant]

Originally Posted by sabotai

A good punishment, IMO.

I would like to see a tougher stance on premeditated attacks, especially if they are of the completely gutless variety employed by Bertuzzi in this incident. I don't think this punishment is enough, it's reduced based on the fact that Bertuzzi did not kill the man but that does not help prevent the next similar incident from resulting in a death. There is some consolation in the fact most people's opinions of Bertuzzi will change for the negative, and those that were not already convinced Marc Crawford was a total slimebag are certainly having more difficulty defending him.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Buddy Grant

I would like to see a tougher stance on premeditated attacks, especially if they are of the completely gutless variety employed by Bertuzzi in this incident. I don't think this punishment is enough, it's reduced based on the fact that Bertuzzi did not kill the man but that does not help prevent the next similar incident from resulting in a death. There is some consolation in the fact most people's opinions of Bertuzzi will change for the negative, and those that were not already convinced Marc Crawford was a total slimebag are certainly having more difficulty defending him.

Bertuzzi tried to get Moore to fight him. So actually Moore was the gutless one. Granted Bertuzzi shouldn't of suckered punched him from behind, but Bertuzzi was more then willing to fight Moore straight up.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Buddy Grant

I would like to see a tougher stance on premeditated attacks, especially if they are of the completely gutless variety employed by Bertuzzi in this incident. I don't think this punishment is enough, it's reduced based on the fact that Bertuzzi did not kill the man but that does not help prevent the next similar incident from resulting in a death. There is some consolation in the fact most people's opinions of Bertuzzi will change for the negative, and those that were not already convinced Marc Crawford was a total slimebag are certainly having more difficulty defending him.

I still like watching my video of him freaking out at scotty bowman during the 97 playoffs.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Fighting is part of the game...period.

It doesn't have to be.

[ISiddiqui]

Bertuzzi tried to get Moore to fight him. So actually Moore was the gutless one.

Moore already was in one fight with a Canuck in the game... does he have to fight every Canuck who feels he wants to be a macho man?

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by druez

Bertuzzi tried to get Moore to fight him. So actually Moore was the gutless one. Granted Bertuzzi shouldn't of suckered punched him from behind, but Bertuzzi was more then willing to fight Moore straight up.

The 'code' factor has already been completed, Moore already faced off with someone else. There was nothing wrong with Moore's hit on Naslund, Nazy even admitted the hit was clean and perfectly acceptable... so we shouldn't even be talking about this. But obviously the Canucks felt someone took liberties with their star... and the 'code' came into play. Bert crossed the line, he should be punished AND forgiven, but he's the one who did something wrong NOT Moore.

[GrantDawg]

I'm in with the same crowd that says they'll never be a hockey fan as long as there is fighting (as a part of the game. All sports have idiots.) .

[sabotai]

I'm in the crowd that say they'll never be a fan of hockey if they take fighting out of the game.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

It doesn't have to be.

Hockey is a violent sport by nature, and when you are that competitive, moving that fast, and another guy is trying to take you out, sometimes you get caught up and need to fight...

It has to be. Most who have played the game would agree.