Baseball Offseason 2004-5 Thread

[Bomber]

The Yankees and Carl Pavano have agreed to terms on a four-year, $44 million contract, SportsTicker reports.
The AP says the deal will be worth about $39 million. According to agent Scott Shapiro, Pavano made the decision to sign with the Yankees early this morning. He'll join a Yankee rotation that is still in flux beyond the top two starters. Javier Vazquez and Kevin Brown remain candidates to be traded and deals with Jaret Wright and Eric Milton are still up in the air.

[Chief Rum]

Thank God the Yankees signed him. I was really worried my Angels would sign him, because I am convinced he is nowhere near as good as he was last year, and we would be vastly overpaying him.

Now we can concentrate on Clement (who is about the level I expect Pavano to end up at, with the strikeouts added, and he'll cost less).

CR

[GrantDawg]

The Braves have picked up Dan Kolb from the Brewers for a prospect. That means Smoltzie will start (or play RF, which is where it was rumored he asked to move).

[GrantDawg]

BTW, something must have happened to back this off, but ESPN radio reported earlier today that Pedro to the Mets was nearly a done deal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The Braves have picked up Dan Kolb from the Brewers for a prospect. That means Smoltzie will start (or play RF, which is where it was rumored he asked to move).

That's not just any prospect (according to the AJC) ... it's fireballer Jose Capellan. A horrendous deal, IMO, it moves Smoltz to the rotation so he can blow up his arm, sends a prospect with a howitzer away, and puts the 9th inning in the hand of a guy who has had his elbow rebuilt and a torn rotator cuff.

It's better than Giles-for-Hudson, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck either.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's not just any prospect (according to the AJC) ... it's fireballer Jose Capellan. A horrendous deal, IMO, it moves Smoltz to the rotation so he can blow up his arm, sends a prospect with a howitzer away, and puts the 9th inning in the hand of a guy who has had his elbow rebuilt and a torn rotator cuff.

It's better than Giles-for-Hudson, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck either.

How was Giles for Hudson a bad deal. The specifics didn't really stick with me, but I'd rather have Tim Hudson even on a pitching heavy team like the Braves. Then again, that's before contracts, etc, get in the way to muddy the deal.

SI

[samifan24]

As a diehard Indians fan, I'm happy with Shapiro's move today in acquiring LHP Arthur Rhodes from the Pirates for OF Matt Lawton. They both make the same money and with the bevy of young OFs we have in Cleveland or the system, we filled a big hole (the bullpen) and traded an expensive, aging spare part. Rhodes isn't the answer to the Tribe's bullpen woes, but he'll help. At 35, he only has a few years left him in (hoping this season was not his new norm) but, more importantly, this shows me that Shapiro is holding true to his promise that the Tribe will contend in '05.

[ISiddiqui]

Damn... Kolb to be the closer and Smoltz starting? NOT a great move at all. Smoltz may be a good starting pitcher again, but for how long before he gets hurt? And Kolb as closer? Oh man... no more automatic 9th anymore.

[Bomber]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

How was Giles for Hudson a bad deal. The specifics didn't really stick with me, but I'd rather have Tim Hudson even on a pitching heavy team like the Braves. Then again, that's before contracts, etc, get in the way to muddy the deal.

SI

I suppose that the Braves have proved that they can produce a good pitching staff with just about anyone, but not good hitters. But Marcus Giles is a second basemen, and Tim Hudson could be a true ace in Atlanta, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Bomber

ESPN is reporting Renteria to the Sox for 4 years, 44 million.

Just on ESPN today:
"According to ESPN's Jayson Stark, the Edgar Renteria story took yet another twist Saturday. The Cardinals, who at one point thought they were out of the running, were informed by Renteria's agent, Jeff Lane, that reports had been exaggerated of an impending deal with Boston. So Renteria is now talking with both teams, along with the Tigers.

Renteria is hopeful that St. Louis will increase its offer and make it competitve enough with Boston's so that he can return to the Cardinals. St. Louis has offered Renteria a four-year, $32 million deal. Boston reportedly is offering four years for $38 million."

ESPN is also reporting that if Renteria chooses to go to Boston, the Cards may sign Orlando Cabrera or Barry Larkin and use the extra money on a pitcher like Milwood or Lowe.

They also stated it's a done deal on Clayton to Arizona for a 1-year $1.3 million deal. As a DBack fan, I like that move as the team has a great prospect in Sergio Sanchez and is supposedly getting closer to signing Stephen Drew. No reason to waste more than a year on Clayton.

As a side note, I think ESPN has set a record for "done deals" that never happen in the past two weeks.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Now we can concentrate on Clement (who is about the level I expect Pavano to end up at, with the strikeouts added, and he'll cost less).

Unfortunately for me and the Mariners, Bavasi doesn't seem to realize that Matt Clement even exists given the complete lack of any attention given to him by the M's front office.

I agree - I think Clement has proven himself moreso than Pavano has and will likely end up a relative bargain in comparison.

[Bomber]

Originally Posted by Arles

As a side note, I think ESPN has set a record for "done deals" that never happen in the past two weeks.

Yeah I've started to wait until 2 or more sources pick up a story now. Too many times this week have things been "done", when in reality they're only almost done, or sometimes even just entering into negotiations.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Arles

Just on ESPN today:
"According to ESPN's Jayson Stark, the Edgar Renteria story took yet another twist Saturday. The Cardinals, who at one point thought they were out of the running, were informed by Renteria's agent, Jeff Lane, that reports had been exaggerated of an impending deal with Boston. So Renteria is now talking with both teams, along with the Tigers.

Renteria is hopeful that St. Louis will increase its offer and make it competitve enough with Boston's so that he can return to the Cardinals. St. Louis has offered Renteria a four-year, $32 million deal. Boston reportedly is offering four years for $38 million."

C'mon, Edgar! Don't fall to the Dark Side!

[Desnudo]

dark side? Come on!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

C'mon, Edgar! Don't fall to the Dark Side!

Since when was he linked to the Yankees?

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

dark side? Come on!

Every team with more payroll than my Cardinals is on the "Dark Side."

[Bomber]

Not much going on today, so far. Here's a few updates:

After a meeting with Detroit, Edgar Renteria's agent said his client was "seriously considering" the Tigers.

Carlos Beltran’s agent discussed the All-Star center fielder with the Yankees, who also met with the agent for Pedro Martinez. While New York manager Brian Cashman said he hadn’t made an offer to Beltran, he refused to say whether he offered a contract to the three-time Cy Young Award winner.

[sterlingice]

Everyone all excited over the Rule V Draft tomorrow?!? Ok, me neither but there a couple of decent guys to be had and that's coming up and here's an article on MLB.com about them.

For anyone who doesn't know what the Rule V Draft is, here's the quick primer, best I can remember it. In fact, no, I won't do that. I'll cheat and copy from the KC Star's notes about it:

"Players are eligible for the Rule 5 draft if left unprotected on their team's 40-man roster and if they have at least three years of professional service (four years if age 18 or younger when initially signed).

Teams pay $50,000 to acquire the player, who must remain on his new team's big-league roster for the entire season or be offered back to his former team for $25,000."

Basically, if you've got 3 years of professional service, you have to be put on the 40 man roster or risk being taken. You pay $50K to their old club, keep him stashed on your MLB roster the entire season (i.e. you can't send him down to the minors without offering him back to his original club) and then he's yours. Of course, if you don't put him on your 40 man roster the next year, someone else could snatch him up.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/ne..._mlb&fext=.jsp

SI

[daedalus]

Sadly enough, I do get kinda excited about the Rule V draft. I mean, y'know, not like I go around all day antsy to find out who gets drafted or anything but I do check every year just for curiosity sake. There can be very useful players coming through there. Of course, living in the Dodgers area, I was assured of annual disappointment as Fred Claire and Kevin Malone had zero imagination in using a cheaper mean of talent acquisition. I am curious about how DePodesta will use it, though.

[Scholes]

Johan Santana was a Rule V draftee from the Astros.

Last year they could of had Clemens, Pettitte, Oswalt, Miller, Santana, Backe.

Wow.

[sterlingice]

I know this isn't going to attract too many posts, but:

by Fanball Staff - Fanball.com
Tuesday, December 14, 2004

News
Outfielder Carlos Lee was traded on Monday, but he will only have to travel about an hour north on Interstate 94. He was shipped from the White Sox to the Brewers in exchange for outfielder Scott Podsednik, reliever Luis Vizcaino, and a player to be named later. "Carlos Lee fills our biggest offseason need," Brewers general manager Bob Melvin told ESPN. "He is the perfect fit with Geoff Jenkins and Lyle Overbay in the middle of our order. We knew that we needed to give up two good players to make this transaction happen." Lee hit a career-high .305 with 31 home runs and 99 RBI for the Sox in 2004.

Views
The White Sox added some speed, defense, and room in the budget by trading for Podsednik, whom they are hoping will drastically improve on his .244 batting average of last season. Both Chicago and fanasty owners are looking for numbers closer to the .313 he hit in 2003 as a rookie. He was a menace on the basepaths though, stealing a major league high 70 bases in 2004. The Brewers got the big right-handed bat that their lineup that they needed in Lee, who will enjoy playing his home games at hitter-friendly Miller Park.

I don't know anything about the contract situations so if a Sox or *gasp* Brewers fan could throw some input out there, I'd be curious to see it. First they manage upon Capellan and likely Buddy Hernandez in the Braves trade for a decent but not spectacular closer. I mean, geez, if Joe Nathan and Jason Isringhausen can be a good closer, any halfwit starter who takes less than an inning to warm up can be a decent closer. Hell, Jose Mesa can still pull down a paycheck as a closer. But I digress.

Now they trade away Posednik who I had heard in rumblings for teams who lose out on Beltran (which, of course, with a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee, but still) for a guy who is probably only contract for another year or two. Then again, if it's a favorable contract, I suppose they could do a lot worse. Lee seems to have leveled off as a .290-30-100 guy with a .900 OPS and that's not too shabby even these days and all it cost them was a spare part (Viscaino) and a 28yo OF who took a big step back in his second major league season.

SI

[ISiddiqui]

While getting Lee is good for the Brew Crew, I think dealing Podsednik because of a sophomore slump last year is a bit harsh. The guy has great speed. He still could be a very good player and I'd imagine he's cheaper than Lee. I don't know Milwaukee's salary situation, but I didn't think it was very good.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Everyone all excited over the Rule V Draft tomorrow?!? Ok, me neither but there a couple of decent guys to be had and that's coming up and here's an article on MLB.com about them.

Interesting stuff.

Looks like your Royals wound up with a pretty good pick. According to John Siskel on ESPN, he has talent and has had solid results in the past. Taking a chance on him after one mediocre season seems worthwhile to me. Plus, if nothing else, a big, young lefty with heat is always worthwhile trade bait. Of course, Baird does not seem to have much clue in the way of trades so that cuts that possibility down.

I like LA's pick as far as possibility for production goes. LA's (DePodesta), Boston's (Epstein) and Oakland's (Beane) picks all seem to fit the profile of "their" type of players: solid production on pedestrian talent. I am a bit disappointed that DePodesta did not just figure out a way to trade those guys he left unprotected instead of just losing them via Rule V since it sounds like they actually have talent.

[sterlingice]

I'll give Baird this, he's doing better at trades. Berroa had a bad year last year, no doubt, but after Angel had won ROY, that Dye/Ellis for Berroa deal wasn't looking too bad in hindsight. Last year he stole Bautista from the Orioles for spare part Jason Grimsley. Granted, TNSTAAPP applies, but did I already mention, he got him from Jason freaking Grimsley. And I thought he did an awesome job with the Beltran trade- Buck only hit .235 but had 12 homers and was showing good leather in just a half season while Teahan has scorched AAA and winter ball and Mike Wood was just the throwin anyways- he looked more like a mop up bullpen kind of guy: not very good but he's only 24.

I'll confess I have a sick little interest in the Rule V also, because, I manage to snag a player in a BBPro league I play in every once in a while. Despite having a really strong farm system, I manage to keep guys away from the draft and add some excess talent. Looks like the Royals did the same as there's nothing to lose with this guy since there's not a lot of pressure to win this season. Plus, they've had some luck in the past. Miguel Ascensio a couple of years ago was a Rule V guy and he's going to be competing for a rotation spot, coming off of arm surgery, and DJ Carrasco did well in the bullpen for parts of the last couple of years, but he looked bad the second half of last year. Last year, they traded some cash for a no hit, all field, speed guy to be their 25th man and 5th OF/defensive replacement. Sounded like a good idea until he showed up to camp, got MLB jitters, and couldn't catch a cold. Oops- good plan, bad execution. Regardless, on a team with lots of spots open for the future, why not open the competition for one more spot

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Looks like the Braves might be back in the running for Tim Hudson.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp.../14braves.html

The Braves were said to be out of the Hudson sweepstakes after refusing to include second baseman Marcus Giles in a trade. But a source close to negotiations said Beane informed the Braves that a deal was possible without Giles, and the two clubs intensified their talks Sunday and Monday.

The A's were asking for a package of at least three prospects or young players, including left-hander Dan Meyer, who went 9-3 with a 2.49 ERA in 26 games (24 starts) while splitting last season between Class AA Greenville and Class AAA Richmond.

[WSUCougar]

The Giants signed free agent catcher Mike Matheny away from the Cards. The writing was already on the wall for this, unfortunately...Matheny was worth more than STL was willing/able to pay him since they have an rising stud (and inexpensive) catcher in Yadier Molina and have other, more pressing (and expensive) needs.

I wish Matheny well. He is an fantastic defensive catcher, is great for the pitchers, is a team leader, and is one of those guys you'd want on your team.

[Arles]

Here's a very interesting article on the Arizona salary situation. The major sports media (most notably ESPN) has been hammering Arizona for spending the money they did on Ortiz and Glaus. Yet, they failed to look at the big picture. Essentially, Arizona has cut out almost $40 million from their 2004 payroll through trades and/or contracts expiring on 11 players. Thus far, they have replaced them with a grand total of $17.45 million in 2005 to Glaus, Ortiz, Royce Clayton and Craig Counsell, with a current 2005 payroll of about $54 million. So, even if the DBacks keep Randy Johnson and sign a couple more FAs (pitcher like Estes or Burnett and OF like Burnitz), they still figure to be at a mark about $20 million less than the $80 million they had at the start of 2004.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diam...money1214.html

[MikeVic]

Jays got Koskie I believe... and are going after Clement right now too. Delgado is gone, though.

Look like Hinske will be moved to 1B.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Jays got Koskie I believe... and are going after Clement right now too. Delgado is gone, though.

Look like Hinske will be moved to 1B.

Damn! I wanted Koskie to go to the M's or back with the Twinkies.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

Yeah, too bad about Matheny. It would've been nice to get him back, but not for the price the Giants were willing to pay (last I heard it was 3yrs, $9 million). Tough loss.

Oh, and with regard to Koskie - a colleague of mine is his first cousin. Just in case you wanted to know.

Even more, actually: "After signing nine-time Gold Glove shortstop Omar Vizquel last month, they added catcher Mike Matheny, who has won three Gold Gloves, signing him to a three-year, $10.5 million contract, including an option for the 2008 season."

SI

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

The Giants signed free agent catcher Mike Matheny away from the Cards. The writing was already on the wall for this, unfortunately...Matheny was worth more than STL was willing/able to pay him since they have an rising stud (and inexpensive) catcher in Yadier Molina and have other, more pressing (and expensive) needs.

I wish Matheny well. He is an fantastic defensive catcher, is great for the pitchers, is a team leader, and is one of those guys you'd want on your team.

Yeah, too bad about Matheny. It would've been nice to get him back, but not for the price the Giants were willing to pay (last I heard it was 3yrs, $9 million). Tough loss.

Oh, and with regard to Koskie - a colleague of mine is his first cousin. Just in case you wanted to know.

[Bomber]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Jays got Koskie I believe... and are going after Clement right now too. Delgado is gone, though.

Look like Hinske will be moved to 1B.

Hinske sucks. He wont' hit the way a first basemen should. They're going to try and move him I think.

[Chief Rum]

Sox apparently have entered the fray for Clement and likely started a bidding war with the Angels (gee, I wonder who will win that one, yup Evil Empire II).

That also means Cleveland, Detroit and Toronto probably won't be able to keep up with either.

CR

[Chief Rum]

Oh and we signed Paul Byrd, according to a couple reports I have seen.

I am still trying to digest if that's actually a good thing (and we're still going after Clement apparently).

CR

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Sox apparently have entered the fray for Clement and likely started a bidding war with the Angels (gee, I wonder who will win that one, yup Evil Empire II).

That also means Cleveland, Detroit and Toronto probably won't be able to keep up with either.

CR

Ha! Like Anaheim's $100 million payroll is anything to sneeze at. Evil Empire III.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Ha! Like Anaheim's $100 million payroll is anything to sneeze at. Evil Empire III.

lol...I was almost going to add something exactly like that after pointing out Toronto, Detroit and Cleveland wouldn't keep up with either of us.

Still, we're pretty close to our top payroll possible (at this economic moment) when we hit $100 M, and you guys pass that level without a thought.

CR

[Desnudo]

Only because the Yankees make them. It really is all the Yankees fault in the end.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Only because the Yankees make them. It really is all the Yankees fault in the end.

I can agree with that, damn Yankees.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Oh and we signed Paul Byrd, according to a couple reports I have seen.

You really caught me off-guard with that one, I think I just assumed he would re-sign with Atlanta after they offered arbitration. And the story hasn't even made the local papers yet.

I can't help but think this might lend just a little more credence to the Hudson-to-Atlanta possibility, otherwise, the Braves are right back to having only 4 starters (Smoltz,Thomson,Hampton,Ramirez,and Byrd were sorta penciled in) again even with the Kolb-acquisition/Smoltz-move.

[Chief Rum]

Although I have read little blurbs saying this, I would still keep it at rumor level until we get confirmation from major sources. As of yet, I haven't seen a thing about Byrd signing with the Angels at ESPN or CNNSI or any of the top sports news outlets.

CR

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

As of yet, I haven't seen a thing about Byrd signing with the Angels at ESPN or CNNSI or any of the top sports news outlets.

There's a press release at
http://anaheim.angels.mlb.com/NASApp...x.jsp?c_id=ana

I figured that was about as official as it could get

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

There's a press release at
http://anaheim.angels.mlb.com/NASApp...x.jsp?c_id=ana

I figured that was about as official as it could get

Touché.

So, Jon, as you're a guy who has been able to watch Byrd pitch on a start to start basis, what's your opinion on him? Is he recovered from his injuries? How much of his performance is due to playing under your pitching coach (forget his name, Mazzone?)? I know he has good years before (KC, Philly), but he seems to be a very hit and miss type of pitcher (at least on a season to season basis).

CR

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

... what's your opinion on him? Is he recovered from his injuries?

I think "hit and miss" is a pretty good description of Byrd at this point.
His month-by-month line pretty well covers it

June - 15.1 IP, 1 of 3 7+ IP, 2.93 ERA, 1-1
July - 25.1 IP, 1 of 5 7+ , 4.26 ERA, 1-2
Aug - 31.0 IP, 3 of 6 7+ , 4.06 ERA, 3-1
Sep - 38.2 IP, 3 of 6 7+ , 2.33 ERA, 3-2
Oct - 4.0 IP, 0 of 1 7+, 3.94 ERA, 0-1

Now, mixed into those numbers was:
5 straight starts allowing 3 runs or less followed by ...
4 of 5 starts allowing 4 runs or more followed by ...
5 straight starts allows 3 runs or less followed by ...
allowing 17 runs in his final 15 IP (3 starts)

You just never knew whether you'd see the effective guy or the ineffective guy. And when he's ineffective, it's not pretty. He's a borderline 4th/5th starter IMO, although in today's MLB, he might be a #3 guy somewhere. But unless it's a team that really pounds the ball, I can't see him being more than a .500 pitcher anymore.

[sterlingice]

He was fairly good in the year he did well for the Royals. Basically, you'd expect 7 IP and a couple of runs and get somewhere around that every night. He ticked off a bunch of fans by mouthing off during the labor negotiations that year so there was a general "don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out" sentiment when he signed with the Braves and I'm guessing there were even some who enjoyed the fact that he went under the knife almost immediately after leaving the team.

EDIT: Jon, I think that you have to take those numbers with a grain of salt because he was coming off Tommy John surgery and it does take about a season after you come back to regain your stuff. That said, I think you're fairly accurate, tho I'd say a #3/4 on a good team or a #2 on a small market team.

SI

[Chief Rum]

The article and my own take agrees with the suggestion he has been signed to be our fifth starter, and I think in that capacity, he could be a steal. Consider that our fifht starter last year was Aaron Sele or Ramon Ortiz, depending on who was pitching better lately. Even Byrd's worst months were better than they were all season.

We also dealt Oritz today for a prospect from the Reds.

Unfortunately, one of the local personalities is saying Stoneman (our GM, if you didn't know) is indicating we will be pulling out of the Clement negotiations. That is frustrating, since I think Clement is on the verge of becoming a very good pitcher, maybe not an ace, but a very good #2. Personally, I would pay $10M+ for such a pitcher, but reports are we won't go higher than $9 M for him--and I'm certain the Red Sox will.

If that is true, our only hope to get a better, top notch level starter is to start in again at RJ, or maybe inquire after other pitchers who might be available (Hudson? Burnett?). Since trades are always an iffy proposition, that puts our offseason as a question mark for me, which is disappointing considering we reportedly had Carlos Beltran at the top of our shopping list, and still have a lot of room in our projected payrol for next season ($95M-$100M).

CR

[Vince]

Man, I am completely taken aback by the Giants signing Matheny. I love the guy, but that is a pretty huge contract, and we haven't been able to trade A.J. Pierzynski yet. On top of that, Matheny isn't exactly the offensive force that you'd like a guy with a $10M deal to bring to the table. Some interesting moves being made this off-season by the Giants...

[Mr. Sparkle]

Pierzynski is going to be non-tendered. I hate this move. Why spend all that money on Matheny when Torrealba could give us pretty much the same production at a drastically reduced cost. Oh well, thats the San Francisco Geriatrics for ya. If we don't somehow get a real CF (and I don't mean Dave Roberts), this move reeks of suck.

[ISiddiqui]

M's are close to getting Sexson according to ESPN.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Vince

Man, I am completely taken aback by the Giants signing Matheny. I love the guy, but that is a pretty huge contract, and we haven't been able to trade A.J. Pierzynski yet. On top of that, Matheny isn't exactly the offensive force that you'd like a guy with a $10M deal to bring to the table. Some interesting moves being made this off-season by the Giants...

I was hoping my Cards would bring Matheny back - but that deal the Giants offered him was impossible to match (not to mention a bit silly). He'll flash his gold glove and handle the pitchers well, but you already know what to expect from him at the plate: he'll hit in the .240-.250 range with minimal power and 40-ish RBIs.

I love good defensive catchers and all, but to me that's not $10 million worth o' baseball playin'.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Pierzynski is going to be non-tendered. I hate this move. Why spend all that money on Matheny when Torrealba could give us pretty much the same production at a drastically reduced cost. Oh well, thats the San Francisco Geriatrics for ya. If we don't somehow get a real CF (and I don't mean Dave Roberts), this move reeks of suck.

I think Matheny will be a noticable improvement on the defensive front. He's an amazing receiver back there behind the plate. Now, when he's up to bat...that's an entirely different story.