It's Here! The 2006-2007 NHL Season Thread

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Travis

Question is, how far past 11 will they reach, and how many more defensive injuries before my job application to play D get answered?

As an Avs fan, I sure hope the answer to the first question is "at least 2"

[Maple Leafs]

So, any thoughts on the Jordan Tootoo punch?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=upeLPWApt6w

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

So, any thoughts on the Jordan Tootoo punch?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=upeLPWApt6w

I haven't watched it yet. I will when I get home, but Tootoo is a punk bitch.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

So, any thoughts on the Jordan Tootoo punch?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=upeLPWApt6w

I think he should be out for as long as Simon

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I think he should be out for as long as Simon

See, to me there's a big difference. In Tootoo's case, the guy was clearly coming after him. He has a right to defend himself. Yes, it was the equivalent of swatting a fly with a baseball bat, but it wasn't a total blindside like Simon's was.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

See, to me there's a big difference. In Tootoo's case, the guy was clearly coming after him. He has a right to defend himself. Yes, it was the equivalent of swatting a fly with a baseball bat, but it wasn't a total blindside like Simon's was.

ok, I can accept that to a point, but it still was a cheap shot and he deserves to miss a lot of time.

[Wolfpack]

Hmm...would would-be attackers be more reticent or more likely to go after him after something like this?

[Ryan S]

Until reading this thread, it had not even occured to me that this incident might have been suspension worthy. If Tootoo had not punched him out, Robidas would have completed the dirty hit. Either way it was a cheap shot.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

See, to me there's a big difference. In Tootoo's case, the guy was clearly coming after him. He has a right to defend himself. Yes, it was the equivalent of swatting a fly with a baseball bat, but it wasn't a total blindside like Simon's was.

Just watched it. Any defense of that is bullshit. Robidas was going to check him. he could take the hit, or he could sidestep. Hell, he can cross check the guy. Instead, he punches him in the chin. Cowardly, bullshit move.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Just watched it. Any defense of that is bullshit. Robidas was going to check him. he could take the hit, or he could sidestep. Hell, he can cross check the guy. Instead, he punches him in the chin. Cowardly, bullshit move.

sure. just a normal check by Robidas. after all, the puck was right there, just, oh, 100 feet away or so.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Robidas was going to check him

Are you by any chance Cam Janssen?

[Travis]

Yes, Robidas was coming in late, but Tootoo obviously knew it was coming, was expecting it to be coming. He's been around long enough and knows that if you put Modano on his ass, somebody is coming looking for you.

That said, with the other options available to him, this was one of the cheapest/dirtiest things he could have done in that situation. Take the hit, sidestep (as has been mentioned), then drop your gloves and go. The utter BS that is Tootoo and Trotz saying, "well, he kept his gloves on" blows me away. I'm not sure if it still is a rule or not, but didn't punching with your gloves on give you an extra penalty previously (or still)?

And how they gave Robidas a 2 minute penalty for charging still blows me away. Sure, the intent was there, but if he never applies the hit, how does he get the minor?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

Until reading this thread, it had not even occured to me that this incident might have been suspension worthy. If Tootoo had not punched him out, Robidas would have completed the dirty hit. Either way it was a cheap shot.

Well, I'm glad I saw the video before I read the posts after it, because if I hadn't, my opinion probably would have been different.

I would say Tootoo was guilty of breaking fighters' etiquette for not waiting to go into full "fight mode" before taking a swing. As the announcers said (and Ryan S commented), if Tootoo remained bent over, or with a knee on the ice and his back to Robidas, there was no way he wouldn't have followed through with the dirty hit. Just because Tootoo had the ability to take a quick glance and see him coming shouldn't negate the fact that Robidas was taking a run at him. Not trying to say that two wrongs make a right, but it shouldn't be overlooked that dirty play #1 occurred.

And by the way, I give the announcers a lot of credit for bringing up the point about Robidas' run and not just going right out and saying Tootoo was a thug.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Logan

And by the way, I give the announcers a lot of credit for bringing up the point about Robidas' run and not just going right out and saying Tootoo was a thug.

well, to be fair, it was Nashville's announcers...

[Logan]

I didn't pay enough attention to it to notice whose announcers they were. I know the Rangers' announcers have no problem with taking our guys to task when they fuck up, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Five games for Tootoo, by the way. No complaint from me.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

well, to be fair, it was Nashville's announcers...

I was going to mention that. It was a tipoff that they went on and on about Modano's mightly slash, while ignoring the dead guy on the ice.

[Pyser]

terrible announcing.

not a good play, either. coward.

[Fidatelo]

Tootoo is not a coward. I like what he did, I don't think too many guys will be running him in the future.

Also, I hate that suspensions are tied so directly to outcome and not intent. This is another one of those suspensions that wouldn't have happened if the guy wasn't laying on the ice twitching. If Robidas has a stronger chin, or sees it coming at the last second and takes only a glancing blow, nothing happens.

Or how about if Tootoo doesn't see him and gets hammered from behind and lays on the ice twitching? Then we're calling Robidas a spineless bastard and he's sitting in the pressbox for a couple weeks. It's just dumb.

[Logan]

Rangers looking good in late regular season.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

sure. just a normal check by Robidas. after all, the puck was right there, just, oh, 100 feet away or so.

I didn't say Robidas was right. He was clearly in the wrong, but Tootoo punching him in the face was worse. Be a man and take you lick for hitting the other teams playmaker.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Logan

Rangers looking good in late regular season.

I realize that this was part in jest (hey Raiders), but it's nice to see that Lundqvist, who struggled late last season, seems to peaking his performance. He's been rock solid after christmas and if it hadn't been for his slow start to the season, his numbers would have been even better than last year.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

I didn't say Robidas was right. He was clearly in the wrong, but Tootoo punching him in the face was worse. Be a man and take you lick for hitting the other teams playmaker.

Um, Modano was wearing skates and on the ice. I don't give a shit if he's the other team's playmaker, he got drilled with a perfectly clean hit. If you want to start some shit for that, fine, but that's why you stand up and drop the gloves. You don't need to take a run at him when his back to you. That made me feel even better about Tootoo drilling him.

Originally Posted by Coder

I realize that this was part in jest (hey Raiders), but it's nice to see that Lundqvist, who struggled late last season, seems to peaking his performance. He's been rock solid after christmas and if it hadn't been for his slow start to the season, his numbers would have been even better than last year.

Not only has Lundqvist been great, but the defense is actually helping him out and not letting him get peppered with shots and making him stand on his head. The whole team has been playing really, really well lately.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Logan

Um, Modano was wearing skates and on the ice. I don't give a shit if he's the other team's playmaker, he got drilled with a perfectly clean hit. If you want to start some shit for that, fine, but that's why you stand up and drop the gloves. You don't need to take a run at him when his back to you. That made me feel even better about Tootoo drilling him.

If you drill a playmaker, especially a pansy like modano, expect to get hit. Punching a guy on the button is a gutless move. Understand this...Robidas was wrong. You shouldn't check from behind. But you also don't punch a guy because you're scared of getting hit.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

Rangers looking good in late regular season.

I don't want to come off as a Pittsburgh homer here, but...

Jagr's goal last night.

If it's in, great. Not the first time Rockin' Rob Scuderi balled up a play in front of the net.

What bother me is, never during the play is that called a goal. Only when Thibault gets up do we see the puck, about 4 inches over the line. Do I believe it was over the line---yeah probably. But, exactly what replay did they watch to call it a goal? If it was never signaled as good during the play on the ice, and the replay shows nothing (unless they have some X-ray cam to see through Thibault's body), where was the definitive view?

[Dr. Sak]

Yeah that goal was a little sketchy, but Rob Scuderi puts more deflections in his own net than anyone I know.

[Maple Leafs]

Here's a replay question: Does the NHL actually have a "if the replay is conclusive the call on the ice stands" rule?

The NFL does, and everyone assume the NHL does too. And they should. But I've seen enough calls get reversed without conclusive evidence that I'm wondering if it's one of those fake rules we've all imaged over the years.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

If you drill a playmaker, especially a pansy like modano, expect to get hit. Punching a guy on the button is a gutless move. Understand this...Robidas was wrong. You shouldn't check from behind. But you also don't punch a guy because you're scared of getting hit.

I'm not really trying to defend him. I said originally that my biggest problem with Tootoo is that he broke "fighter's etiquette" by not dropping the gloves. Do I think it's completely unreasonable for him, in the heat of everything and seeing a guy charging at him, to turn around and throw one square punch? No. It was just unfortunately that Robidas ran right into it. I think the odds of someone throwing a spinning punch and catching a guy square on the chin is pretty low. If it didn't happen, no one is complaining.

Basically, the only reason I'm sticking up for Tootoo in the slightest is because I have a problem with (other) people letting Robidas off the hook.

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I don't want to come off as a Pittsburgh homer here, but...

Jagr's goal last night.

If it's in, great. Not the first time Rockin' Rob Scuderi balled up a play in front of the net.

What bother me is, never during the play is that called a goal. Only when Thibault gets up do we see the puck, about 4 inches over the line. Do I believe it was over the line---yeah probably. But, exactly what replay did they watch to call it a goal? If it was never signaled as good during the play on the ice, and the replay shows nothing (unless they have some X-ray cam to see through Thibault's body), where was the definitive view?

Not sure what replays you saw or didn't see, but I saw a replay of the in-net camera that showed the puck sitting about 4 inches over the line. From the NY Daily News:

It required a video review - aided by a specially placed TV camera low in the back of the net - to confirm Jagr's first goal in nine games and the victory that lifted the Rangers over Carolina into seventh place in the Eastern Conference, one point behind sixth-place Tampa Bay. All three teams have nine games remaining - though only three of the Rangers' are at home.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Here's a replay question: Does the NHL actually have a "if the replay is conclusive the call on the ice stands" rule?

The NFL does, and everyone assume the NHL does too. And they should. But I've seen enough calls get reversed without conclusive evidence that I'm wondering if it's one of those fake rules we've all imaged over the years.

Well, either the rule exists, or announcers believe in a non-existent rule. In back to back Ranger games, this "rule" was cited as to why the non-goals were held up as such. And just for the record, I thought the Islanders deserved that goal that would've tied the game.

[Dr. Sak]

Logan I saw that replay too but it is hard to tell when the puck went over the line. Tibault gets pushed backwards, now does that happen before or after the refs' intent on blowing the whistle? I'm not sure. We're just splitting hairs right now but that call could have really went either way.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Logan I saw that replay too but it is hard to tell when the puck went over the line. Tibault gets pushed backwards, now does that happen before or after the refs' intent on blowing the whistle? I'm not sure. We're just splitting hairs right now but that call could have really went either way.

To me, it sounded more like Suburban never saw any type of replay, just the puck sitting over the line at a random point (hence the comment about an x-ray cam). If what you are saying is what he was going for, yeah I agree that it's up in the air. I haven't watched a ton of league-wide hockey this year, but like I commented in that post, I've seen plenty of times where goals seemed pretty clear (i.e. the back-to-back set two weeks ago, where one would have been against the Rangers, the other for them) but weren't counted because of a lack of conclusive evidence.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

To me, it sounded more like Suburban never saw any type of replay, just the puck sitting over the line at a random point (hence the comment about an x-ray cam). If what you are saying is what he was going for, yeah I agree that it's up in the air. I haven't watched a ton of league-wide hockey this year, but like I commented in that post, I've seen plenty of times where goals seemed pretty clear (i.e. the back-to-back set two weeks ago, where one would have been against the Rangers, the other for them) but weren't counted because of a lack of conclusive evidence.

I watched the game last night...and have checked out replays.

My point is...if the refs are positive that the puck had crossed the line when the play had ended (before Thibault leaned forward) why wasn't the goal call made right then? I still believe it was never made on the ice, until the phone was hung up. There is nobody who can conclusively say it was over (hence the x-ray cam comment).

Again, do I believe it was in? Probably--Thibault made no real quick movements that would have jarred the puck when he sat up. So most likely where it rested, 4 inches across the line, when he got up is where it was while the puck was still covered. But to make the call based on where the puck ended up AFTER the completion of the play is a little odd.

[Maple Leafs]

I think the Belak/Janssen fight just ended.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I think the Belak/Janssen fight just ended.

Sadly, the TV in the computer room was tied up with American Idol, so I had to choose between my computer and the hockey game. I chose the computer and missed the game.

[Pyser]

the leafs handled the retribution perfectly, i must say.

janssen paid his price in game, the fans were happy, the team was happy, and the game went on. good game, too.

devs need to step it up now, though. gotta keep that 2 seed.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I don't know if its the fact that I've watched the Wings get handled quite easily in the playoffs the last three years (swept by Anaheim in round 1, swept by Calgary in round 2, and beaten by Edmonton in 6 in round 1), but I really don't fancy the Wings' chances against any of the other current playoff bound Western Conference teams except Dallas and maybe, maybe Minnesota.

Dallas because the Wings typically play well against Dallas and Turco still hasn't proven he can play in the post-season.

Minnesota because I am just not convinced, despite the fact they are on one hell of a roll right now.

The other five: Nashville, Anaheim, Vancouver, San Jose, and Calgary terrify me. I really don't think the Wings would have much of a chance against Anaheim, Vancouver, or San Jose.

If Colorado were to sneak in, I would feel pretty good going into a series against them.

If the Wings are to be successful in the playoffs the following things must happen:
Zetterberg needs to be healthy.
Bertuzzi needs to be able to regain some of his past form.
Datsyuk needs to perform in the playoffs.
Hasek needs to steal a few games.

I do like this team going into the playoffs much better than the team last year.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

If Colorado were to sneak in, I would feel pretty good going into a series against them.

it would have been easier for us to "sneak in" if you'd beaten the damn Flames last night.

fwiw, Detroit is the team I'd least like to face in round 1 if we do make it. I would prefer to play Nashville, a team we've had success against this year. So, now that you've blown it against Calgary, I hope you lose every game now.

[sachmo71]

Dallas because the Wings typically play well against Dallas and Turco still hasn't proven he can play in the post-season

Bingo. He's the second coming of Eddie Belfour.

Imagine that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

it would have been easier for us to "sneak in" if you'd beaten the damn Flames last night.

fwiw, Detroit is the team I'd least like to face in round 1 if we do make it. I would prefer to play Nashville, a team we've had success against this year. So, now that you've blown it against Calgary, I hope you lose every game now.

I am sorry, DD. There was no way the Wings were going to win last night. None. They always play pretty bad in Northwest Canada. Between that, the injuries and Calgary's record at home, the Wings' odds of winning that game were slim to none.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

it would have been easier for us to "sneak in" if you'd beaten the damn Flames last night.

I'll be at the Oilers'/Avs game Friday night cheering on the Avs...it's ABC-Time here in Edmonton...Anybody But Calgary!!!!!!

[Logan]

About 5 seconds into the game, Colton Orr just knocked Fedoruk the fuck out with one punch.

edit: Not really one punch...a couple minor throws by each before they grappled. He's still down and his neck is being immobilized.

[Dr. Sak]

Fedoruk already had a broken orbital bone earlier in the year from a fight.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Fedoruk already had a broken orbital bone earlier in the year from a fight.

This punch landed squarely on the jaw. Spread the breakage around.

edit: Eager takes a run at Girardi. Orr challenges him. Eager backs off, then comes back, and they drop the gloves. Eager landed most of the punches, and also took a swing to the back of Orr's head while he was lying on the ice.

So yeah, any impartial observers who have MSG might want to check this out. Should be interesting.

[Draft Dodger]

I knew the Oilers were struggling, but wow. They simply looked awful last night.

Colorado is now 9-0-1 since their huge deadline deal (acquiring Scott Parker), and actually control their own destiny - if they win it out (including 2 games against the Flames), they are in no matter what Calgary does. Even if they don't make it, the way they've played in this stretch gives a lot to look forward to next year - this is a team that has barely been able to put together a 3 game winning streak all year, and now they are just rolling, fueld by some terrific team defense and solid goaltending.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Logan

edit: Eager takes a run at Girardi. Orr challenges him. Eager backs off, then comes back, and they drop the gloves. Eager landed most of the punches, and also took a swing to the back of Orr's head while he was lying on the ice.

Orr turned his back and the almost turtled...Eager hit him on the way down.

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I knew the Oilers were struggling, but wow. They simply looked awful last night.

That wasn't the Oilers...we've just reaquired a Major Junior team, the Oil Kings, and it looks like they've started playing a couple of months early!!!

Go Avs, GO!!!!!

In all honesty, very tough to watch the Oilers while there in such disarray, but it will be nice to see Sakic...one of my all time favorite players and who knows how much longer we'll get to see him. I'm also anxious to see young Statsny. I do hope tomorrow night's game is a better one, but with the same result.

[Draft Dodger]

so is MacTavish / Lowe gone after this year?

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

so is MacTavish / Lowe gone after this year?

I wish MacT would be, but he signed a new deal after last season (whereas he would have been fired/resigned had Vancouver not sucked harder than we did to allow us to back into the 8 seed).

As for Lowe, I can see no reason why his job should even be mentioned. He had his hands absolutely tied in both the Pronger and Smyth situations and I still think he did quite a good job in each situation. The fallout of the Pronger situation shouldn't be judged for another season or two. Because of players we now have a bad reputation (potentially) making it harder to get free agents here, so a lot of building in the next couple years has to be done through the draft and via trades. Not always ideal as the latter always involves giving up assets whereas free agency just eats cap space.

Again, I wish there was a way we could simply get rid of MacT, and if that meant losing Lowe (and the old boys club mentality of only bringing in ex Oilers to run the team), then I could live with it. But Lowe strictly as a GM, a keeper thus far who has had to deal with some absolutely horrific situations/fallout.

[Draft Dodger]

I can't really fault him for Pronger, but, from my vantage point it looks like he really messed up with Smyth. From what I understand, Lowe could have extended Smyth last summer, but didn't get it done, and Smyth's price just went up over the season. It's been reported that the team and Smyth were just $100,000 (per season) apart at the deadline, and he even offered to purchase a $100K suite to make up the difference. No deal. To be that close and then trade him seems crazy. Maybe Smyth will re-sign this offseason, but I'd imagine his asking price will be even higher then. Add that to the hefty Hemsky contract and the odd Bergeron trade...I don't know, just seems like he could be doing much better.

[Draft Dodger]

dola, I'm not an x's and o's guy, but I've heard a lot of praise for the way MacT coached the team in the playoffs last year - the vibe I've gotten is that their success had as much to do with his coaching than anything else. I take it that the Edmonton fans don't feel the same?

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Bingo. He's the second coming of Eddie Belfour.

Imagine that.

I recall Eddie won a Stanley Cup for us a few years back.... :P