Big Brown

[14ers]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I think you have made your "point" by now.

I know, I know, But, why are people now claiming this horse is done? I watched a PTI segment and they were both saying this horse would never win another race. Then they did 5 minutes on Big Brown's defeat and the the expert they were talking to agreed that this horse is through being the dominant horse that he was adn would probably never win another race, and would be out of racing in three races.

I think Big Brown will get back on steroids and immedeiately start winning again. He will be back to his Bad Ass self and will not get pushed around again. That is until they ban steroids from horse racing.

Big Brown has no god given talent what so ever, but on Steroids he is one Bad Ass Mo-Fo.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by 14ers

Good news for Big Brown fans. Bad news for animal lovers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/sp...7dc&ei=5087%0A

I guess it is back to the roids for this horse; after his last place finish. With out the horse going through roid rage he has no heart or desire to win. But, as long as his trainer can keep him pumped full of legal steroids he should be able to win a few more races before the drugs catch up to him and kill him.

Now that we know this horse requires steroids to run, why would anyone want to breed with this horse? Although, I don't know how potent his seed would be; while the horse is all jacked up on steroids? I thought one of the side effects of steroids was that they make you sterile?

Fixed.

I don't know why people have this vision in their heads that steroids are some magic substance that turns normal athletes into super athletes overnight. Like Bonds was a good hitter, but he took steroids and the next day he'd hit 4 homeruns, all at least 500 feet. Steroids allow both humans and animals to recover quicker from an athletic activity. For a baseball/football/etc.. player, that means he can spend a lot more time in the gym and thus get bigger and stronger. Horses don't go to a gym. Steroids allow them to recover quicker and run at their best ability more often.

BB may have recovered more after the preakness and derby had he had his monthly shot, but even with the steroids the 3 races over such a short period still take their toll. There's are several reasons that there have only been 3 triple crown winners in the last 60 years and that's a big one. Of course, the steroids couldn't help the ride he got, or the fact that in the 3 weeks between the preakness and belmont, BB had just a single 5f workout, etc...

I really don't see a reason they should be banned in horse racing other than the court of public opinion - especially given how ignorant on the subject the general public is.

As for breeding, many horses don't have testicles anyways, but for horses that will eventually be put out to stud, Winstrol is shown to have a short-term impact on semen production that goes away once the steroids go away.

[molson]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I know, I know, But, why are people now claiming this horse is done? I watched a PTI segment and they were both saying this horse would never win another race. Then they did 5 minutes on Big Brown's defeat and the the expert they were talking to agreed that this horse is through being the dominant horse that he was adn would probably never win another race, and would be out of racing in three races.

I think Big Brown will get back on steroids and immedeiately start winning again. He will be back to his Bad Ass self and will not get pushed around again. That is until they ban steroids from horse racing.

Big Brown has no god given talent what so ever, but on Steroids he is one Bad Ass Mo-Fo.

Steroids aren't as bad as you think they are.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I think you have made your "point" by now.

you wish him to stop where there are deceased equine to be assailed? surely, you jest.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=3456907

A photo taken during the early stages of the Belmont Stakes has revealed Big Brown was running with a loose shoe as the Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner attempted to become the first Triple Crown winner since 1979, Newsday reported Monday.

According to the New York newspaper, The Blood-Horse magazine published a photo in its June 21 issue showing a dislodged shoe on the horse's right hind hoof about 200 yards into the Belmont.


Michael Iavarone, a co-president of International Equine Acquisitions Holdings -- Big Brown's stable -- told Newsday that freelance photographer Russ Melton e-mailed him two close-up shots, which he opened late Saturday night.

"The picture shocked me," Iavarone said, according to the report. "When the shoe spread, a nail could have been pinching him. Or he could have been stepping on a hot nail, which would have been worse. I'm guessing the nail went back in but not in the same spot. Or it could have been a loose shoe, which would be like trying to run with a wobbly cleat."

"Any of those things would be significant for a horse running a mile and a half. The [deep] track was my original explanation. But now I'm thinking the shoe was dislodged during the race and incorrectly reset while he was running."


In an interview last week with the Thoroughbred Times, Greg Bennett, the primary veterinarian for Rick Dutrow, Big Brown's trainer, confirmed the horse had raced with a loose shoe but minimized the impact it might have had on the Belmont performance.

The bay colt was eased up by jockey Kent Desormeaux in the stretch, ending up last, beaten by eight other horses. Later physical examinations of Big Brown by Dutrow discovered nothing out of the ordinary. Blood tests also revealed nothing abnormal.

"It didn't seem to be any soundness issues with the horse," Bennett said, according to the Thoroughbred Times. "He did loosen [the right] hind shoe, but I don't know how much of a factor that was."

But Bennett said in the Newsday report the loose shoe could help explain Big Brown's abrupt fall from grace.

"When a shoe comes off, it does throw a horse out of balance, but it depends how traumatically it happens and at what stage of the race," Bennett told the paper. "A couple nails can loosen up, which can cause a lot of problems and affect a horse's performance.

"I'm not sure how much of an issue it was with Big Brown. Sometimes horses feel it after the race and are sore, but I'm not aware of that with Big Brown."

Meanwhile, Iavarone told The New York Times that the more than 50 horses owned by his stable would be drug-free by October, and that he would pay for tests to be administered by state or track veterinarians before and after each of their races to prove it.

"I know Big Brown or any of our horses do not need this stuff to win," Iavarone said. "I'm not worried about an uneven playing field, either. The cost of the drug tests are a small price to pay for the integrity of the sport. I'm urging other owners to join us, and let's turn the game around."

Iavarone also said Dutrow backed the self-imposed ban on all medications perceived to be performance-enhancing.

The decision comes three days after Congress held a hearing criticizing the drug policies of the horse racing industry.

The hearing was called after Eight Belles broke down at the Kentucky Derby last month and was euthanized on the track.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Questions from a guy who knows very little about horse racing.

Who is responsible for making sure a horse's shoes are secure? How easy is it for a horse's shoe to become loose during a race?


Oh yeah, when should Kent Desormeaux expect that apology from Rick Dutrow if it turns out that the shoe was the problem, not the ride?

[billethius]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=3456907



Questions from a guy who knows very little about horse racing.

Who is responsible for making sure a horse's shoes are secure? How easy is it for a horse's shoe to become loose during a race?


Oh yeah, when should Kent Desormeaux expect that apology from Rick Dutrow if it turns out that the shoe was the problem, not the ride?

It's not terribly common, but it definitely happens and there's not much that can be done to prevent it beyond standard care.

A horse will run without a shoe - he'd just be sore the next day. Given that he didn't show any soundness issues after the race, I can't imagine this had much effect at all.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by billethius

It's not terribly common, but it definitely happens and there's not much that can be done to prevent it beyond standard care.

A horse will run without a shoe - he'd just be sore the next day. Given that he didn't show any soundness issues after the race, I can't imagine this had much effect at all.

while i did following horse racing for a time, i do not know if this makes a huge difference . . .

but he was not running without a shoe, he was allegedly running with a loose shoe. if the initial source, iavarone, was correct, then he could be running with a shoe flopping around with the nail possibly either lose or occasionally poking him. if i remember correctly, he already had some problems heading into the race (although i do not know if it is the same leg) so this would not help at all.

i'm sure 14er will still find something to gripe about, however. perhaps the shoes are inhumane?

[QuikSand]

I know I mentioned the safety pin in one of our threads prior to the Belmont (referencing Spectacular Bid in 1979), and the parallels here are very strong. Bottom line is we really will never know what exactly happened to Big Brown in that race. If he comes back to race again (I remain shocked that this is really on the table, but the connections say it is) and looks brilliant again, the mystery will really deepen.

Assuming he is training acceptably, and runs against a solid field in the Jim Dandy (or whatever his next race might be) that will be possibly the most intriguing betting line I can ever recall.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I know I mentioned the safety pin in one of our threads prior to the Belmont (referencing Spectacular Bid in 1979), and the parallels here are very strong. Bottom line is we really will never know what exactly happened to Big Brown in that race. If he comes back to race again (I remain shocked that this is really on the table, but the connections say it is) and looks brilliant again, the mystery will really deepen.

Assuming he is training acceptably, and runs against a solid field in the Jim Dandy (or whatever his next race might be) that will be possibly the most intriguing betting line I can ever recall.

As long as he's healthy, I see no reason they wouldn't finish out his 3yo season. Could set up an awesome Classic matchup with Curlin.

[kcchief19]

http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

I wonder how Rick Douchetrow will blame this one on the jockey ...

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

I wonder how Rick Douchetrow will blame this one on the jockey ...

yes. also expect 14er to post that butchers kill cows and should be outlawed.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by billethius

As long as he's healthy, I see no reason they wouldn't finish out his 3yo season. Could set up an awesome Classic matchup with Curlin.

I'm pretty sure Curlin has been taken off the Classic trail, regrettably.

[billethius]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I'm pretty sure Curlin has been taken off the Classic trail, regrettably.

Interesting. The Wikipedia article on him mentions the possibility of the Arc or Japan Cup. I'd be as interested in seeing him run in the Arc as I would a potential matchup with Big Brown.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Big Brown career ending injury

Updated: October 13, 2008, 2:47 PM ET
NEW YORK -- Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner Big Brown's racing career is over after injuring his right front foot during a workout at Aqueduct on Monday.

Trainer Rick Dutrow said the 3-year-old colt, who was preparing for the Breeders' Cup Classic on Oct. 25, appeared to kick himself while working on the turf course at Aqueduct with stablemate Kip Deville. Big Brown was able to complete the six-furlong work when Dutrow noticed blood coming out of the foot.

"It looks like he grabbed himself in a bad spot," Dutrow said.

Though the extent of the injury is unknown, Michael Iavarone of IEAH Stables, co-owners of Big Brown, said the horse who captivated the racing world during his Triple Crown bid will not race again.

"It's in the best interest of the horse to let him recover and move on to his breeding career," Iavarone said.

[Lathum]

not taking any chances

[billethius]

The picture of the hoof wasn't pretty.

The big money in breeding really hurts racing in instances like this. Years ago, Big Brown would have been turned out for the rest of the year and brought back as a 4yo and then probably as a 5yo as well before being retired to stud.

In that light, what Curlin's ownership group has done has been kinda neat.