Civilization 4 - Page 2

JeeberD · 07-29-2005, 11:36 AM

Sorry, Cel.

I would totally be up for doing one again as well...

MikeVic · 07-29-2005, 11:51 AM

I would too, once I get the game.

jbmagic · 07-29-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Bottom line, IF they pull all this off:

Klnx pls, k, thx.

if they pull all that posted above, it will be great.

but if the AI is not smart and not making good decisions it can ruin the game.

KWhit · 07-29-2005, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I would totally be up for doing one again as well...

Same here. That would be fun.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-29-2005, 01:15 PM

I think many of us are going to be up for a MP game of this if the MP works alright. *keeping fingers crossed*

hukarez · 07-29-2005, 01:27 PM

I've always been fond of the Civilization series, and I can pretty much be rest assured that Civilization 4 (whenever it's released, and whenever I pick it up) will be a good reason for me not getting enough sleep in the future.

Vince · 07-29-2005, 02:07 PM

Like a bunch have said -- I would love to get into an MP game with you all.

Blade · 07-29-2005, 05:02 PM

I would be in as well, though I am sure I will get my ass handed to me...

ISiddiqui · 07-29-2005, 05:17 PM

Another place to get info about the game:

http://civilization4.net/3/74/

The catagories (Gameplay and Non-Gameplay Concepts is where it is at):

Official

Gameplay Concepts

Non-Gameplay Concepts

Civilopedia

Buccaneer · 07-29-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

Awesome. This sounds like the sequel to Civ 2 that everyone wanted Civ 3 to be.

Sounds like it.

Buccaneer · 07-29-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I just hope they fix the problem with resources. I finally broke my CDs in half when I kept getting into a winning position to start discovering endgame technologies and never getting any of the corresponding - and necessary - resources.

Game after game, I would not get plutonium, rubber and oil. Every single time. And they were virtually impossible to trade for. And without the resources themselves, I couldn't build the modern weapons necessary to capture those resources. It was always a Catch-22. Play for 3 or 4 hours only to lose becuase the game continually cheated.

I probably played 20 games. I think I wound up with oil twice, rubber 3 times and never got plutonium. It was a giant friggin' waste of time. I'd love to kick the guy in the nuts - repeatedly - who made that decision.

That and the "revolutions" that would overthrow freshly conquered cities. I'd have my army deep in someone elses' territory and *poof*, the captured city would revert back to its former owner. It wasn't enough that the city would magically revert back to its former owner, but that it would take all of my military units stationed in the city too!!! Like Bagdad would revolt and the USA Army units there would start fighting for Iraq against the USA. Ya, that's going to happen...

Civ 3 was abomonation and ranks in the top 3 of my most disappointing/annoying/send me on a fucking psycho 3 state killing spree rampage-type games of all time.

I remembered all that very well. You were actually the first, both here and at Apolyton, that said that the emperor had no clothes in regarding to gameplay and resources.

I, too, ended up hating Civ3 despite all of my posts about it. There were two game killers for me: static tech eras and a worse scenario development system than Civ2. I see that there will be no static eras in Civ4 (hallelujah!) and that there will be python-scripted events for scenarios. Those alone will make me more a fan of this game desipte all of the needless complexities they felt they had to add (which confused the AI even more).

Buccaneer · 07-29-2005, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Civilization threads....

Bucc's post count is going to increase 10 fold.

I hope so (which would make up for the number of posts I had anticipated for Pirates!2).

Buccaneer · 07-29-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Artificial Intelligence

Perhaps a significant component of good game-play is a good AI. The AI will be much improved in the new game...

Much time is also being spent on the AI (Artificial Intelligence). One goal is to have rulers with distinct personalities. Gandhi will be generous to weaker nations, while the Khan will shy away from any diplomacy at all. If you do not play by your Civilization's leaders, they might get upset with you. For example, if you play aggressively with Gandhi, he might get angry. They key is playing by their styles. Traits also depend on leaders, rather than Civilizations. Each leader will have unique traits and bonuses Ideological conflicts are a definite possibility as a result of the AI leader personalities and their ties to certain religions or civics.
The City Governor AI will also be more improved to assist you better. And that is an important part, because it naturally allows you to micro-manage less. And another main goal of Firaxis is to kill player micro-management.
During the Middle and Late games, the game will be sped up thanks to faster AI moves.
Barbarians will pose a new threat. They will have animal attackers such as lions, bears, jaguars, and wolves. These Animal attackers will probably be present only early on.

This was another failure in Civ3: static nations (re: PREDICTABILITY). I hope, for the main game, that there is the ability to randomize nationality traits. If we are starting a new human history in 4000 bc, who is to say how a nation will develop. Pre-defined traits, attributes or whatever only belong in scenarios.

jbmagic · 07-29-2005, 07:15 PM

are you guys concern about how the AI will be in civ4?

hopefully they will be smart and make the correct decisions.

ISiddiqui · 07-29-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

This was another failure in Civ3: static nations (re: PREDICTABILITY). I hope, for the main game, that there is the ability to randomize nationality traits. If we are starting a new human history in 4000 bc, who is to say how a nation will develop. Pre-defined traits, attributes or whatever only belong in scenarios.

I'm sure you'll be able to randomize traits. Though I'm not sure, since I haven't read much about AI stuff (I like the fluff they've added, myself

. Wonder movies are back and units will talk in the language of the civ when selected... stuff like that), but I believe they'd discussed it ad nauseum at the Apolyton Civ4 forums.

You still remember how to get there, right Bucc?

Buccaneer · 07-29-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

but if the AI is not smart and not making good decisions it can ruin the game.

Let me put it another way. The AI has even more variables to deal with and it has a much harder time than humans because we can easily discern what is important and what is not in making a short-term or long-term decision. We all know that the AI in Civ2 was laughable but except for certain battle elements, it was even worse in Civ3 in relation to the increased complexities it couldn't handle very well.

The mantra for Civ3 was to play it a certain way to get a game out of the AI because more was hard coded. I don't know if the AI is still anywhere close to making simple human deductions in adjusting to changing events or conditions - even with Soren in charge. This was why I react against static national traits (including the stupid golden ages), which not only does that make it easier for the humans to play against, but it forces the AI to cheat in order to be competitive. For a simplistic example, if we suddenly shift gears toward a different research tact (which was easy to do in Civ2, but impossible in Civ3), can the neighboring AI civ recognize that and keep up?

Buccaneer · 07-29-2005, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'm sure you'll be able to randomize traits. Though I'm not sure, since I haven't read much about AI stuff (I like the fluff they've added, myself

. Wonder movies are back and units will talk in the language of the civ when selected... stuff like that), but I believe they'd discussed it ad nauseum at the Apolyton Civ4 forums.

You still remember how to get there, right Bucc?

Imran, I think I shot my wad in the Civ3-General forum way back when. Who was that Korean living in LA (or was it the other way around) that I kept battling?

Now if the scenario developers get excited about Civ4, then I'll be there. It was sad to see the expectations and subsequent rejection of Civ3 by many of our old friends in the scenario community. The modders were always there but that's not what I'm talking about.

ISiddiqui · 07-29-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Who was that Korean living in LA (or was it the other way around) that I kept battling?

Yin? Yeah, he came back and wouldn't you know it, is talking about Civ4 is going to suck

. And he hadn't been around before all the news just came out.

AlexB · 07-29-2005, 08:24 PM

I don't know what it is, but sometimes I have this sixth sense, and right now I'm getting a faint impression that SkyDog is quite looking forward to this game!

Buccaneer · 07-29-2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Yin? Yeah, he came back and wouldn't you know it, is talking about Civ4 is going to suck

. And he hadn't been around before all the news just came out.

Figures.

Ben E Lou · 07-29-2005, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

I don't know what it is, but sometimes I have this sixth sense, and right now I'm getting a faint impression that SkyDog is quite looking forward to this game!

"Guarded optimism" would be the best description at this point. I like the new features. It remains to be seen how they interact with one another and the AI, of course.

Dutch · 07-29-2005, 09:06 PM

I could care less about MP Civ. I know right now I don't have enough time to dedicate to a CIV MP game.

So I hope they are working hard on the AI aspects. I'm with everybody else though, so far, CIV4 looks like it could be awesome.

I admit I was taken back a bit by the 3D graphics. How much development time did they spend on that???

I am encouraged that they may be able to shorten the length of turns later on. Waiting for the AI was always the biggest drag of playing (more so than cleaning up pollution all the time.)

sabotai · 07-29-2005, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

I admit I was taken back a bit by the 3D graphics. How much development time did they spend on that???

Not nearly as much as it would seem. They licensed a graphics engine for Civ4 (Gamebryo I think). They still had to modify it it for what they needed, but still, they didn't build the graphics engine from the ground up so it wouldn't take them nearly as long as it would if they did (like Valve with HL2 or id with Doom 3).

CraigSca · 07-30-2005, 06:28 AM

Will this game have righty/lefty splits?

AlexB · 07-30-2005, 03:45 PM

I really like Civ III when it came out, but it did become one dimensional after a while - I've been trying to keep my eye open on Civ IV developments, and to echo the thoughts of this thread, it does look good. Only downside is the eta of November

Btw, if you were playing as your home nation, and your sports rival city was the default name for your next city, was anyone else as sad as me and made sure it was never built? My hometown wasn't in the list as far as I could work out, so whenever Nottingham was to be built, it was immediately renamed Leicester - preventing the formation of Nottingham F*****t even before the birth of JC!

Eaglesfan27 · 07-30-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

I really like Civ III when it came out, but it did become one dimensional after a while - I've been trying to keep my eye open on Civ IV developments, and to echo the thoughts of this thread, it does look good. Only downside is the eta of November

Btw, if you were playing as your home nation, and your sports rival city was the default name for your next city, was anyone else as sad as me and made sure it was never built? My hometown wasn't in the list as far as I could work out, so whenever Nottingham was to be built, it was immediately renamed Leicester - preventing the formation of Nottingham F*****t even before the birth of JC!

I always renamed cities to make sure that only my favorite cities made it into my nation

Vince · 07-30-2005, 04:16 PM

Whenever I felt I needed a city somewhere for strategic value (either geographically or for a resource) that didn't have a very good outlook from a purely city developing perspective, I'd name it Los Angeles

Dutch · 07-31-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Will this game have righty/lefty splits?

If you're talking about spitballs, probably not.

But if you are takling about distinct differences between Democracy and Socialism/Communism, of course it's already built in to the game.

ISiddiqui · 07-31-2005, 06:51 PM

Speaking of that... my favorite addition so far has been the social engineering model of SMAC is back in Civ4!

CraigSca · 07-31-2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

If you're talking about spitballs, probably not.

But if you are takling about distinct differences between Democracy and Socialism/Communism, of course it's already built in to the game.

It was actually a harmless jab on the whole BB Mogul thread that Skydog started a few months ago. However, I have to give you credit...I think that was a split-fingered fastball on the outside corner of the plate, yet you still managed to hit that one in the seats

Dutch · 07-31-2005, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

It was actually a harmless jab on the whole BB Mogul thread that Skydog started a few months ago. However, I have to give you credit...I think that was a split-fingered fastball on the outside corner of the plate, yet you still managed to hit that one in the seats

Although there is some question about which side of the foul pole it hit.

Blackadar · 08-01-2005, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I remembered all that very well. You were actually the first, both here and at Apolyton, that said that the emperor had no clothes in regarding to gameplay and resources.

I, too, ended up hating Civ3 despite all of my posts about it. There were two game killers for me: static tech eras and a worse scenario development system than Civ2. I see that there will be no static eras in Civ4 (hallelujah!) and that there will be python-scripted events for scenarios. Those alone will make me more a fan of this game desipte all of the needless complexities they felt they had to add (which confused the AI even more).

I remember getting a lot of shit for it over at Apolyton. So much so that I actually traded for a 2nd copy of the game after a few patches and tried to play again. It didn't go much better than the 1st round and the Collector's Edition went into the garbage.

Ben E Lou · 08-13-2005, 05:35 AM

NEW ARTICLE ON GREAT PEOPLE

Sid Meier's Civilization IVSid Meier

Throughout history, men and women have emerged to perform great deeds, thus having profound and lasting effects on the world around them. They are people whose genius, vision, and perseverance set them apart from the rest. The development team at Firaxis wanted to recognize the integral role these visionaries have played throughout history, so we added a new feature in Civilization IV called "Great People". There are five types of Great People in the game: Artists, Engineers, Merchants, Prophets, and Scientists. Each can have a profound impact on your Civilization, just as in real life.

Great People are created at the city level, as each city can generate "great people points" based on conditions and structures in the city. You can affect the amount of people points generated in several ways. One very dramatic way is through the creation of a great wonder. For instance, building the Pyramids will make it more likely the city will generate a Great Engineer, while building Stonehenge will make the city more likely to generate a Great Prophet. You can also generate more great people points by taking city population away from working the land and turning them into specialists. Certain Civics choices can work to make your specialists more productive and that can also have a positive effect on your great people point production.

All Great People share certain common abilities that differ somewhat based on the type of great person. All can be used to immediately research a new technology with the type of technology determined by the great person - Prophets would give you a religion technology like Priesthood, Artists may give you a technology like Literature, and Merchants would perhaps give Banking. All Great People can also settle in a city for a period of time and give a constant boost to that city's production, based on their type. Finally, all Great People can be used to trigger extra golden ages for your Civilization, with each subsequent golden age requiring more Great People. Each use of a great person consumes that unit and it is removed from the game.

In addition to their common abilities, all Great People can also do one "really big thing," for lack of a better term. Each Great Person type has a specific ability and their effects can make an indelible impact on the game. Great Artists can make a great work of art that automatically gives that city a huge culture boost. Great Engineers can "hurry" the production in a city, giving you the ability to build a Great Wonder in one turn perhaps. Great Merchants can conduct a trade mission to a far away city and give you a quick and sizeable boost to your treasury. Great Prophets can create a religious shrine, but only in the city in which the religion was founded. Finally, Great Scientists can construct an Academy, a building which boosts a city's scientific research and culture.

When Great People show up in the game, they are represented by a unit that is only visible to the player. For all but one (Great Prophet), there will be an ancient and a modern representation of the unit. To add flavor, each Great Person will be named after a great person of that type from history. So you may find yourself with the likes of: Shakespeare, Nichola Tesla, Leonardo da Vinci, Marco Polo, Marie Curie, J.S. Bach, or Chuang Tzu, to name but a few! The Firaxis team has been playing Civ IV for over two years now, and we're all really happy with the new level of depth the Great People feature brings to the game. We hope you'll like it too!

Written by: Barry Caudill, Senior Producer, Firaxis Games

NEW ARTICLE ON RELIGION

Religion has always played a critical part in human history. Through religion, man has sought to make sense of the universe around him and to determine his place in it. Religion has inspired, enlightened and ennobled man; in its name men have erected beautiful buildings, written books of great wisdom, and made music of surpassing beauty. In its name men have also murdered and enslaved their fellows. Given the importance of religion throughout history, it seemed fitting that we should try to address it in Civilization IV.

Through our tests, it was determined that the optimal number of religions for gameplay purposes was seven (a number that seems to come up quite often when designing versions of Civilization). We then set about making a list of seven important and recognizable religions. After a lot of deliberation and more testing, we narrowed the list down to these: Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Taoism.

If you are the first to discover the technology associated with a religion, the religion is founded in one of your cities. Religion can spread passively throughout your cities and even into neighboring cities belonging to your opponents. Establishing trade routes can help spread your religion faster and farther. Certain religious buildings can also help this passive spread but if you want to move the process along, you will want to create missionaries. Missionaries are units that you can move to another city (your own or an opponent’s) and attempt to directly convert that city to your religion.

In addition, having cities that have converted to your state religion can give you monetary and happiness bonuses. You can also get some line of sight benefits, and provide yet another interesting decision in a game already filled with interesting decisions.

Written by: Barry Caudill, Senior Producer, Firaxis Games

New Screenshots

Buccaneer · 08-13-2005, 10:14 AM

I am still concerned that while such ideas sound great on paper, in actual gameplay, they might force the user into 'gamey' situations or into a predictable methodology. What I mean is that you have all of these factors like cultural boundaries, religion and their related events (as with Great People), in order for them to be viable in the game, you have to play a certain way. This probably becomes more of an issue with the AI which has a harder time reacting to multi-variate conditions. Again, I personally prefer something that plays more like a civilization-type game than something that attempts to recreate history. If I want a historical gameplay, I will choose a scenario.

jbmagic · 08-13-2005, 11:03 AM

it all sounds great.

only concern is still the AI.

Ben E Lou · date

Most Recent GameSpot Updates

date	type	description
08/19/05	Screens	5 new screens
08/19/05	Preview	Q&A--The Nitpicker's Q&A
08/19/05	Movie	Developer Interview 3

Ben E Lou · 08-20-2005, 12:51 PM

As you can probably tell from its name, Civilization IV is the fourth chapter in the landmark strategy game series that stretches back to 1991. It goes without saying that the Civ formula is one that has withstood the test of time quite well. That's not to say we don't have our issues with the game. We love Civ, but there are little nitpicks that have bugged us for years, like watching spearmen from the Stone Age defeating a modern-day main battle tank or, even worse, a battleship. So with Civ IV currently in testing and balancing for its November ship, we threw some questions at Barry Caudill, the game's senior producer, hoping to find out how Firaxis has improved the gameplay to eliminate those nits.

Build an empire to stand the test of time--but you knew that already.
GameSpot: The news that you've removed the ability to transfer production from one project to another caused a ruckus among Civ fans everywhere. What's the thinking behind that, and how much has it changed the game thus far in testing?

Barry Caudill: Being able to transfer all production from one thing to another (or from one research project to another) has traditionally been one of the big exploits in the series. It doesn't make much sense to be building something like the Colossus for many years and then have all of that simply transfer into a Great Library or an aqueduct. The good news is we understand how much players would hate it if all production or research spent simply went away--it doesn't. Let's say you are building a Buddhist temple and decide that you really need a better defender, so you switch to an archer. If you were to then switch back to the temple, you would find all of your previous production on that temple is still there.

The same would be true for research. If you are researching optics and feel the need to switch, you will still have that research available when you switch back to optics at a later time. This "banking" of resources or research is not infinite, however, as you will start to lose production or research slowly over time. In the case of wonders, where someone else can build it so you are unable to return to it, you will be paid a fair market value in gold for any lost production.

It really hasn't been a big balance issue in tests because everyone (the artificial intelligence included) is on a level playing field in this regard. Plus, you don't have the old "wonder domino" effect from previous versions, where you will see five wonders completed in the same turn as everyone scrambles to change production from the one that was just built.

GS: We've learned that expansionism, or squeezing in as many cities as you possibly can on a continent, is dead, or at least on life support, in Civ IV. What's the reasoning for this change, and what will happen if you try to build cities like mad?

BC: Another big exploit from previous versions was a strategy lovingly referred to as "settler spam." This tactic was based on the player making a settler in each city as soon as possible and then starting new cities. Lather, rinse, repeat. In Civ III, we added corruption to try to address this, but it wasn't so much a solution as an annoying speed bump. In Civ IV, cities require a maintenance amount that increases with each city. That means settler spammers will find themselves going broke, or with very little money left for research.

Of course, people like to play with lots of cities, and we certainly don't want to shut down their enjoyment of the game. Those people will be able to make very large civilizations with many cities, but they will have to do so in a more thoughtful and strategic manner. As cities grow, they are better able to sustain themselves without taxing the overall economy. Players will also be able to use diplomacy, religion, trade networks, and improvements to generate more income, thereby making them better able to handle the ever-increasing maintenance costs.

GS: The combat system has been overhauled, so the infamous "spearmen defeat ultramodern hi-tech main battle tank" problem shouldn't happen anymore. Right? Explain.

BC: The short answer is yes, and the long answer would be fodder for a whole article. The main change is that we brought back a system similar to firepower from Civ II. That system was a bit too complex and many people struggled to understand it; so, like many other things in Civ IV, we decided to streamline the process. Basically, two units of the same relative power will do about 20-percent damage per hit, so it would take five hits to kill another unit. When one unit is much more powerful than another (like in the case of the poor spearman, for instance), the more powerful unit does a higher percentage of damage than the less powerful unit. So if both managed to hit three times in this battle, the spearman would have only done about 40-percent damage to the tank, while the tank would have decimated the spearman.

In addition, there are many more calculations going on under the hood and that makes for fewer "lucky rolls" from the random number generator, and that helps balance it out even more. In the options screen, players can turn on an option that will let them see bars over the units, so you can easily judge your chances before entering into combat.

You can now see every improvement that you build in a city on the main screen, if you look hard enough.
GS: There are certain great wonders in Civ that are simply heads-and-shoulders better than the rest, such as Great Library, and if you got these wonders, you had a huge edge over the competition. How have you addressed this in Civ IV?

BC: We took a long, hard look at all of the wonders from previous games and changed or eliminated anything that was really unbalanced. In the case of the Great Library, we moved its former effect to the Internet wonder, which comes much later in the game, where the impact is less. The "new" Great Library gives the player the ability to have two free scientist specialists and makes the city more likely to generate a great scientist.

Say No to Settler Spam

GS: We've heard that roads no longer grant commerce. What's the reasoning for that? We assume this will cut down on the habit of planting roads and rails in every square inch of your empire. This created such an unseemly sight, as roads and rails littered every square.

Take advantage of the land wisely. Rivers grant defensive bonuses, and mountains are now completely impassable by all land units.
BC: Roads no longer grant commerce because we completely overhauled the trade system and it just didn't make sense, in light of the new rules, to also give roads/railroads a blanket bonus. The other problem with the old way was that there was really only one choice that made sense--you build a road any chance you get--and having only one real choice is not very fun. There are plenty of ways to generate trade in Civ IV and they are more strategic and fun than simply sprinkling roads everywhere. The fact that it will help prevent the "every tile has a road" phenomenon is a bonus.

GS: We know that resources are going to be more fairly distributed in Civ IV than they were in Civ III, but how so? And nothing hacked us off more than seeing our single, precious oil or iron deposit suddenly disappear, only to reappear in a rival's territory. Will we see an end to the migrating resource problem?

BC: There are really three questions here, so I will answer them in turn. Since we are using Python scripts to generate random maps, we have the ability to more easily tweak them, and that gives us much finer control over the placement of resources. The algorithm is fairly complicated, but Soren Johnson (Civ IV's lead designer) has the resources grouped together by what they do and when they are important, and he makes sure that a resource from the same group cannot be within a certain distance of another from that group. That makes similar resources spread out across the map more, and that helps ensure better overall coverage. Regarding resource migration, it will not happen anymore. The third question is implied (at least to me) and I think it is important to answer it: You talk about the "single, precious oil" and I wanted to point out that we have taken great pains to balance the tech tree, resources, and what you can produce in such a way that none of the resources is a "magic bullet" like oil was in Civ III. For instance, if you have no iron or horses early in the game, the new tech tree design makes it much easier for you to make a beeline for gunpowder, and salt peter is no longer required.

GS: What about the cutthroat, ruthless AI that came after you like you had insulted its mother and that knew everything about you, including the location of your every city and military unit? You'd have a huge lead, then suddenly, the AIs would gang up and come after you with a vengeance, even if you had been the most peaceful of neighbors. Have you addressed that in Civ IV?

BC: We have addressed this in several ways. We have given attributes to the leaders instead of to the civilization. That means that some are more warlike, peaceful, trustworthy, etc. than others. Leaders will appreciate other leaders that share their traits and civic or religious choices, and they will tend to form blocs. If you find leaders that share your tendencies, it will be possible to form lasting (even permanent) alliances. Of course, you won't be able to make everyone happy, so you will have to choose your friends wisely. In addition, our beta testers from the Civ community have been helping us balance things for quite a while now, and they are incredibly thorough in their game testing. Finally, Soren is now at the point where he is totally focused on tweaking the AI, and that's a good thing.

GS: We hate having to dicker with the AI when trying to arrange a trade. Instead of actually negotiating, all you do is adjust by one increment the amount of gold you're willing to part with to see if it will bite.

BC: Soren recently added a feature in which you can put a deal on the table and then ask the AI leader to fill in the blanks, no matter what combination is out there. You can also tell when a deal would never happen because the choices will show up in red on the list.

GS: Civ games tend to grind down in the latter stages of a game, because you simply have a ton of cities and units to manage. The result is that turns take longer and longer to resolve. Does Civ IV address this problem in any way?

BC: Well, yes and no. As you note, there will be tons of units and cities at the end of the game, and that has an effect no matter what. On the other hand, we are doing a lot to streamline various aspects of the game, and that will significantly improve the late-game experience. For instance, you will be able to easily group units and command them as one. You can also select multiple cities and give them all the same build orders at the same time. Workers can be grouped together, and then their actions within that group can be queued--so you can tell three workers to build a road to a certain point and not have to mess with them for several turns. Finally, we eliminated the elements that tended to slow down the late game, including pollution cleanup, city riots, and units disbanding because you have money issues. So, the late-game experience should be as much fun as the rest of the game.

Garrison your cities, or else someone will march in and take them from you.
GS: Finally, there are a gazillion other nitpicks out there, but what was your personal nitpick, and how did you address it in Civ IV?

BC: In Civ III, it made me a little crazy watching the AI tromp through my land with a settler/defender stack so they could plant a city on some open square on the other side of my empire. I couldn't get rid of them without starting a war because they would just come back in the next turn. I was left with the option of placing units in squares so they wouldn't think of them as open. In Civ IV, this is addressed two ways. First, the new city maintenance costs make this option less attractive to the AI (and other players in multiplayer), and second, they can't cross your land without declaring war unless you have established an open-borders treaty.

GS: Thanks a lot, Barry!

Buccaneer · 08-20-2005, 01:05 PM

Thanks for posting that, it was very informative. I am still a little uneasy about "leader" traits in always being tied to the same civ. If it is random then that's cool and more than that, I would like to see so random that we may get up to 7 of the same type. This would help in the AI being more unpredictable when playing against as well as replayability.

Ben E Lou · 08-20-2005, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Thanks for posting that, it was very informative. I am still a little uneasy about "leader" traits in always being tied to the same civ. If it is random then that's cool and more than that, I would like to see so random that we may get up to 7 of the same type. This would help in the AI being more unpredictable when playing against as well as replayability.

I'm assuming, as was the case in Civ3, that you can turn these off if you don't want the predictability of the Mongols always being war-like, etc. I saw the Civ3 version as an improvement over Civ2, where the Babylonians were always science-oriented, the Mongols always warlike, etc. I'm further assuming that there will be options as in the Conquests expansion (which was very, very good, by the way) that would allow the player to choose any of five options from "very aggressive AI" to "very passive AI," and also to choose to play against Civs that are oriented a certain way.

Buccaneer · 08-20-2005, 01:30 PM

Understood. I wonder if you couldn't have a clue ahead of time as to the traits of the leader/civ and you have to find out the hard way...and that such traits could unpredictably change without you knowing about it. Even through diplomacy, you wouldn't be able to accurately tell. The point is that this is how the AI sees us.

aran · 08-20-2005, 01:55 PM

I'm looking at some screenshots right now, and one big things that i noticed is that cities are taking up multiple tiles now. Awesome! i'm happy they finally added that into the game.

So far this is looking excellent. The 3d engine, although i was very reserved about it at first, looks like it will really immerse me in the game more.

The religion and cultural improvements looks very strong, and the SMAC-style government changing is outstanding.

sabotai · 08-20-2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

BC: In Civ III, it made me a little crazy watching the AI tromp through my land with a settler/defender stack so they could plant a city on some open square on the other side of my empire. I couldn't get rid of them without starting a war because they would just come back in the next turn. I was left with the option of placing units in squares so they wouldn't think of them as open. In Civ IV, this is addressed two ways. First, the new city maintenance costs make this option less attractive to the AI (and other players in multiplayer), and second, they can't cross your land without declaring war unless you have established an open-borders treaty.

That was one of my biggest problems with CivIII. Good to see it taken care of.

Eaglesfan27 · 08-20-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai

That was one of my biggest problems with CivIII. Good to see it taken care of.

Ditto. That was my biggest problem with CivIII.

Galaxy · 08-21-2005, 04:15 PM

Loving this game. I hope the MP works out well.

I hope they fixed the alliances as well. They weren't very good. One tribe would work have an alliance with me, and they would settle a treaty. Or an alliance would go to war together, then bring in another partner, and one of those guys would go to war with each other.

saldana · 08-21-2005, 04:32 PM

in response to several things throughout this thread

i get civ 3 to work no prob on win xp systems, all i needed was the newest patch, if you cant find it online, pm me, i could set up someway for you to download it from my webpage.

if there is a massive fofc MP game, count me in

and although i mirror everyone elses concerns about the AI, i really want the play balance to be improved. nothing was more annoying to me than when i would attack a city and have my army of 8 or 10 armored knights be beaten one at a time by a single spearman, or even better, when my tanks would lose to a pikeman conscript. the balance needs to be worked out alot more. i would also like to see transport units for ground troops that function on land. i hated having to leave behind mounted troops to secure cities because the foot soldiers were 5 turns behind since they could only move 1 square at a time.

Buccaneer · 08-21-2005, 05:25 PM

You know, I was surprised to see the dreaded spearman beats tank issue so prominently mentioned. I don't recall that being much of any issue in Civ2 (because of FP?).

saldana · 08-21-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

You know, I was surprised to see the dreaded spearman beats tank issue so prominently mentioned. I don't recall that being much of any issue in Civ2 (because of FP?).

short of the 99 yard touchdown play for the cpu in madden 04, the spearman/tank issue is the most frustrating moment in video games, imo

aran · 08-21-2005, 05:58 PM

I think the consolidation of A/D into a single Power rating really fixes that. Hopefully city walls won't be ridiculous, too....

Ben E Lou · 08-31-2005, 08:31 AM

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=27859

Promotions In 'Civilization IV' - Screens

Posted on Tuesday, August 30 @ 16:56:46 PDT

The fourth game in the PC strategy series that has sold over five million copies, Sid Meier's Civilization IV is a bold step forward for the franchise, with spectacular new 3D graphics and all-new single and multiplayer content. Civilization IV will also set a new standard for user-modification, allowing gamers to create their own add-ons using the standard Python and XML scripting languages. Firaxis producer Barry Caudill tells us more about the new Civilization IV promotions feature.

In Civ III, unit promotions involved rising in level from green to veteran to elite and each level added a hit point and a small combat bonus. For Civ IV, we decided to build on this system and make promotions much more intricate and customizable by allowing players to choose from over 20 different bonus types (many with multiple levels, for a total of over 40 available promotions). The numbers and types of available bonuses differ per unit type and only land and sea military units can acquire them (air units are different).

Here’s how it works: Units can gain experience points in several ways. Successful combat is the primary means (note: you get more points from attacking than you do from defending) and the units must be victorious in a unit-to-unit combat, therefore there are no XPs (experience points) from bombarding fortifications or if the opposing unit withdraws. Units can also gain experience from a Barracks (land units), a Drydock (sea units) or a goody hut. In addition, some wonders, civic choices, and leader traits can give units extra experience or even certain promotions. As you might expect, the first promotion comes rather quickly, while each subsequent promotion requires more XP.

The promotions take on many different forms. Some are simple like Combat (5 levels), which gives progressive strength bonuses with some extra healing at the top levels, or City Raider/City Garrison which gives the unit bonuses only when attacking/defending a city. Others give bonuses against a certain type of unit. For instance, Cover gives a bonus against Archery units and Formation gives a similar bonus against Mounted units, while Shock does the same against melee units. Some promotions give bonuses based on the type of terrain in which the unit resides. If your opponent has a lot of woods or jungle, you might choose Woodsman, or if your opponent is surrounded by hills you might choose Guerilla.

All in all, the new promotion system in Civ IV offers players a plethora of interesting new decisions, excellent customization options, and an extra layer of strategy. That’s how we spell fun at Firaxis Games.

Crapshoot · 08-31-2005, 08:41 AM

Going back, I'm hoping he's correct about the AI no longer forming the "All against one" blocs, but rather seperating into distinct, seperate groups. That was my biggest pet peeve in Civ3 - I wanted the AI's to act distinctly in their individiual interests, not as one big group. Galactic Civilizations has done this better than any of the other games.

07-29-2005, 01:15 PM	#55
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I think many of us are going to be up for a MP game of this if the MP works alright. keeping fingers crossed __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-29-2005, 01:27 PM	#56
hukarez College Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chula Vista, CA	I've always been fond of the Civilization series, and I can pretty much be rest assured that Civilization 4 (whenever it's released, and whenever I pick it up) will be a good reason for me not getting enough sleep in the future. __________________ ...what we have here is a man who looks like Tarzan, but fights like Jane! My VG collection \| Xbox 360 Gamertag: ManThol \| PS3 Network ID: hukarez Doce Pares International - San Diego Council Filipino Martial Arts Digest tweet tweet twitter

07-29-2005, 02:07 PM	#57
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	Like a bunch have said -- I would love to get into an MP game with you all. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

07-29-2005, 05:02 PM	#58
Blade College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Edmonton, Alberta	I would be in as well, though I am sure I will get my ass handed to me... __________________ Just trying to get by unnoticed... Loyal fan of the Edmonton Oilers and Philadelphia Eagles.

07-29-2005, 05:17 PM	#59
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Another place to get info about the game: http://civilization4.net/3/74/ The catagories (Gameplay and Non-Gameplay Concepts is where it is at): Official Gameplay Concepts Non-Gameplay Concepts Civilopedia __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-29-2005, 11:51 AM	#52
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	I would too, once I get the game.

07-29-2005, 07:15 PM	#64
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	are you guys concern about how the AI will be in civ4? hopefully they will be smart and make the correct decisions.

07-29-2005, 08:24 PM	#69
AlexB Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newbury, England	I don't know what it is, but sometimes I have this sixth sense, and right now I'm getting a faint impression that SkyDog is quite looking forward to this game! __________________ 'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports!

07-29-2005, 09:06 PM	#72
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	I could care less about MP Civ. I know right now I don't have enough time to dedicate to a CIV MP game. So I hope they are working hard on the AI aspects. I'm with everybody else though, so far, CIV4 looks like it could be awesome. I admit I was taken back a bit by the 3D graphics. How much development time did they spend on that??? I am encouraged that they may be able to shorten the length of turns later on. Waiting for the AI was always the biggest drag of playing (more so than cleaning up pollution all the time.)

07-30-2005, 06:28 AM	#74
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	Will this game have righty/lefty splits? __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

07-30-2005, 03:45 PM	#75
AlexB Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newbury, England	I really like Civ III when it came out, but it did become one dimensional after a while - I've been trying to keep my eye open on Civ IV developments, and to echo the thoughts of this thread, it does look good. Only downside is the eta of November Btw, if you were playing as your home nation, and your sports rival city was the default name for your next city, was anyone else as sad as me and made sure it was never built? My hometown wasn't in the list as far as I could work out, so whenever Nottingham was to be built, it was immediately renamed Leicester - preventing the formation of Nottingham F*****t even before the birth of JC! __________________ 'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports!

07-30-2005, 04:16 PM	#77
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	Whenever I felt I needed a city somewhere for strategic value (either geographically or for a resource) that didn't have a very good outlook from a purely city developing perspective, I'd name it Los Angeles __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

07-31-2005, 06:51 PM	#79
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Speaking of that... my favorite addition so far has been the social engineering model of SMAC is back in Civ4! __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

08-13-2005, 05:35 AM	#83
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	NEW ARTICLE ON GREAT PEOPLE Sid Meier's Civilization IVSid Meier Throughout history, men and women have emerged to perform great deeds, thus having profound and lasting effects on the world around them. They are people whose genius, vision, and perseverance set them apart from the rest. The development team at Firaxis wanted to recognize the integral role these visionaries have played throughout history, so we added a new feature in Civilization IV called "Great People". There are five types of Great People in the game: Artists, Engineers, Merchants, Prophets, and Scientists. Each can have a profound impact on your Civilization, just as in real life. Great People are created at the city level, as each city can generate "great people points" based on conditions and structures in the city. You can affect the amount of people points generated in several ways. One very dramatic way is through the creation of a great wonder. For instance, building the Pyramids will make it more likely the city will generate a Great Engineer, while building Stonehenge will make the city more likely to generate a Great Prophet. You can also generate more great people points by taking city population away from working the land and turning them into specialists. Certain Civics choices can work to make your specialists more productive and that can also have a positive effect on your great people point production. All Great People share certain common abilities that differ somewhat based on the type of great person. All can be used to immediately research a new technology with the type of technology determined by the great person - Prophets would give you a religion technology like Priesthood, Artists may give you a technology like Literature, and Merchants would perhaps give Banking. All Great People can also settle in a city for a period of time and give a constant boost to that city's production, based on their type. Finally, all Great People can be used to trigger extra golden ages for your Civilization, with each subsequent golden age requiring more Great People. Each use of a great person consumes that unit and it is removed from the game. In addition to their common abilities, all Great People can also do one "really big thing," for lack of a better term. Each Great Person type has a specific ability and their effects can make an indelible impact on the game. Great Artists can make a great work of art that automatically gives that city a huge culture boost. Great Engineers can "hurry" the production in a city, giving you the ability to build a Great Wonder in one turn perhaps. Great Merchants can conduct a trade mission to a far away city and give you a quick and sizeable boost to your treasury. Great Prophets can create a religious shrine, but only in the city in which the religion was founded. Finally, Great Scientists can construct an Academy, a building which boosts a city's scientific research and culture. When Great People show up in the game, they are represented by a unit that is only visible to the player. For all but one (Great Prophet), there will be an ancient and a modern representation of the unit. To add flavor, each Great Person will be named after a great person of that type from history. So you may find yourself with the likes of: Shakespeare, Nichola Tesla, Leonardo da Vinci, Marco Polo, Marie Curie, J.S. Bach, or Chuang Tzu, to name but a few! The Firaxis team has been playing Civ IV for over two years now, and we're all really happy with the new level of depth the Great People feature brings to the game. We hope you'll like it too! Written by: Barry Caudill, Senior Producer, Firaxis Games NEW ARTICLE ON RELIGION Religion has always played a critical part in human history. Through religion, man has sought to make sense of the universe around him and to determine his place in it. Religion has inspired, enlightened and ennobled man; in its name men have erected beautiful buildings, written books of great wisdom, and made music of surpassing beauty. In its name men have also murdered and enslaved their fellows. Given the importance of religion throughout history, it seemed fitting that we should try to address it in Civilization IV. Through our tests, it was determined that the optimal number of religions for gameplay purposes was seven (a number that seems to come up quite often when designing versions of Civilization). We then set about making a list of seven important and recognizable religions. After a lot of deliberation and more testing, we narrowed the list down to these: Buddhism, Christianity, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and Taoism. If you are the first to discover the technology associated with a religion, the religion is founded in one of your cities. Religion can spread passively throughout your cities and even into neighboring cities belonging to your opponents. Establishing trade routes can help spread your religion faster and farther. Certain religious buildings can also help this passive spread but if you want to move the process along, you will want to create missionaries. Missionaries are units that you can move to another city (your own or an opponent’s) and attempt to directly convert that city to your religion. In addition, having cities that have converted to your state religion can give you monetary and happiness bonuses. You can also get some line of sight benefits, and provide yet another interesting decision in a game already filled with interesting decisions. Written by: Barry Caudill, Senior Producer, Firaxis Games New Screenshots __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

08-13-2005, 10:14 AM	#84
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I am still concerned that while such ideas sound great on paper, in actual gameplay, they might force the user into 'gamey' situations or into a predictable methodology. What I mean is that you have all of these factors like cultural boundaries, religion and their related events (as with Great People), in order for them to be viable in the game, you have to play a certain way. This probably becomes more of an issue with the AI which has a harder time reacting to multi-variate conditions. Again, I personally prefer something that plays more like a civilization-type game than something that attempts to recreate history. If I want a historical gameplay, I will choose a scenario.

08-13-2005, 11:03 AM	#85
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	it all sounds great. only concern is still the AI.

08-20-2005, 12:51 PM	#87
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	As you can probably tell from its name, Civilization IV is the fourth chapter in the landmark strategy game series that stretches back to 1991. It goes without saying that the Civ formula is one that has withstood the test of time quite well. That's not to say we don't have our issues with the game. We love Civ, but there are little nitpicks that have bugged us for years, like watching spearmen from the Stone Age defeating a modern-day main battle tank or, even worse, a battleship. So with Civ IV currently in testing and balancing for its November ship, we threw some questions at Barry Caudill, the game's senior producer, hoping to find out how Firaxis has improved the gameplay to eliminate those nits. Build an empire to stand the test of time--but you knew that already. GameSpot: The news that you've removed the ability to transfer production from one project to another caused a ruckus among Civ fans everywhere. What's the thinking behind that, and how much has it changed the game thus far in testing? Barry Caudill: Being able to transfer all production from one thing to another (or from one research project to another) has traditionally been one of the big exploits in the series. It doesn't make much sense to be building something like the Colossus for many years and then have all of that simply transfer into a Great Library or an aqueduct. The good news is we understand how much players would hate it if all production or research spent simply went away--it doesn't. Let's say you are building a Buddhist temple and decide that you really need a better defender, so you switch to an archer. If you were to then switch back to the temple, you would find all of your previous production on that temple is still there. The same would be true for research. If you are researching optics and feel the need to switch, you will still have that research available when you switch back to optics at a later time. This "banking" of resources or research is not infinite, however, as you will start to lose production or research slowly over time. In the case of wonders, where someone else can build it so you are unable to return to it, you will be paid a fair market value in gold for any lost production. It really hasn't been a big balance issue in tests because everyone (the artificial intelligence included) is on a level playing field in this regard. Plus, you don't have the old "wonder domino" effect from previous versions, where you will see five wonders completed in the same turn as everyone scrambles to change production from the one that was just built. GS: We've learned that expansionism, or squeezing in as many cities as you possibly can on a continent, is dead, or at least on life support, in Civ IV. What's the reasoning for this change, and what will happen if you try to build cities like mad? BC: Another big exploit from previous versions was a strategy lovingly referred to as "settler spam." This tactic was based on the player making a settler in each city as soon as possible and then starting new cities. Lather, rinse, repeat. In Civ III, we added corruption to try to address this, but it wasn't so much a solution as an annoying speed bump. In Civ IV, cities require a maintenance amount that increases with each city. That means settler spammers will find themselves going broke, or with very little money left for research. Of course, people like to play with lots of cities, and we certainly don't want to shut down their enjoyment of the game. Those people will be able to make very large civilizations with many cities, but they will have to do so in a more thoughtful and strategic manner. As cities grow, they are better able to sustain themselves without taxing the overall economy. Players will also be able to use diplomacy, religion, trade networks, and improvements to generate more income, thereby making them better able to handle the ever-increasing maintenance costs. GS: The combat system has been overhauled, so the infamous "spearmen defeat ultramodern hi-tech main battle tank" problem shouldn't happen anymore. Right? Explain. BC: The short answer is yes, and the long answer would be fodder for a whole article. The main change is that we brought back a system similar to firepower from Civ II. That system was a bit too complex and many people struggled to understand it; so, like many other things in Civ IV, we decided to streamline the process. Basically, two units of the same relative power will do about 20-percent damage per hit, so it would take five hits to kill another unit. When one unit is much more powerful than another (like in the case of the poor spearman, for instance), the more powerful unit does a higher percentage of damage than the less powerful unit. So if both managed to hit three times in this battle, the spearman would have only done about 40-percent damage to the tank, while the tank would have decimated the spearman. In addition, there are many more calculations going on under the hood and that makes for fewer "lucky rolls" from the random number generator, and that helps balance it out even more. In the options screen, players can turn on an option that will let them see bars over the units, so you can easily judge your chances before entering into combat. You can now see every improvement that you build in a city on the main screen, if you look hard enough. GS: There are certain great wonders in Civ that are simply heads-and-shoulders better than the rest, such as Great Library, and if you got these wonders, you had a huge edge over the competition. How have you addressed this in Civ IV? BC: We took a long, hard look at all of the wonders from previous games and changed or eliminated anything that was really unbalanced. In the case of the Great Library, we moved its former effect to the Internet wonder, which comes much later in the game, where the impact is less. The "new" Great Library gives the player the ability to have two free scientist specialists and makes the city more likely to generate a great scientist. Say No to Settler Spam GS: We've heard that roads no longer grant commerce. What's the reasoning for that? We assume this will cut down on the habit of planting roads and rails in every square inch of your empire. This created such an unseemly sight, as roads and rails littered every square. Take advantage of the land wisely. Rivers grant defensive bonuses, and mountains are now completely impassable by all land units. BC: Roads no longer grant commerce because we completely overhauled the trade system and it just didn't make sense, in light of the new rules, to also give roads/railroads a blanket bonus. The other problem with the old way was that there was really only one choice that made sense--you build a road any chance you get--and having only one real choice is not very fun. There are plenty of ways to generate trade in Civ IV and they are more strategic and fun than simply sprinkling roads everywhere. The fact that it will help prevent the "every tile has a road" phenomenon is a bonus. GS: We know that resources are going to be more fairly distributed in Civ IV than they were in Civ III, but how so? And nothing hacked us off more than seeing our single, precious oil or iron deposit suddenly disappear, only to reappear in a rival's territory. Will we see an end to the migrating resource problem? BC: There are really three questions here, so I will answer them in turn. Since we are using Python scripts to generate random maps, we have the ability to more easily tweak them, and that gives us much finer control over the placement of resources. The algorithm is fairly complicated, but Soren Johnson (Civ IV's lead designer) has the resources grouped together by what they do and when they are important, and he makes sure that a resource from the same group cannot be within a certain distance of another from that group. That makes similar resources spread out across the map more, and that helps ensure better overall coverage. Regarding resource migration, it will not happen anymore. The third question is implied (at least to me) and I think it is important to answer it: You talk about the "single, precious oil" and I wanted to point out that we have taken great pains to balance the tech tree, resources, and what you can produce in such a way that none of the resources is a "magic bullet" like oil was in Civ III. For instance, if you have no iron or horses early in the game, the new tech tree design makes it much easier for you to make a beeline for gunpowder, and salt peter is no longer required. GS: What about the cutthroat, ruthless AI that came after you like you had insulted its mother and that knew everything about you, including the location of your every city and military unit? You'd have a huge lead, then suddenly, the AIs would gang up and come after you with a vengeance, even if you had been the most peaceful of neighbors. Have you addressed that in Civ IV? BC: We have addressed this in several ways. We have given attributes to the leaders instead of to the civilization. That means that some are more warlike, peaceful, trustworthy, etc. than others. Leaders will appreciate other leaders that share their traits and civic or religious choices, and they will tend to form blocs. If you find leaders that share your tendencies, it will be possible to form lasting (even permanent) alliances. Of course, you won't be able to make everyone happy, so you will have to choose your friends wisely. In addition, our beta testers from the Civ community have been helping us balance things for quite a while now, and they are incredibly thorough in their game testing. Finally, Soren is now at the point where he is totally focused on tweaking the AI, and that's a good thing. GS: We hate having to dicker with the AI when trying to arrange a trade. Instead of actually negotiating, all you do is adjust by one increment the amount of gold you're willing to part with to see if it will bite. BC: Soren recently added a feature in which you can put a deal on the table and then ask the AI leader to fill in the blanks, no matter what combination is out there. You can also tell when a deal would never happen because the choices will show up in red on the list. GS: Civ games tend to grind down in the latter stages of a game, because you simply have a ton of cities and units to manage. The result is that turns take longer and longer to resolve. Does Civ IV address this problem in any way? BC: Well, yes and no. As you note, there will be tons of units and cities at the end of the game, and that has an effect no matter what. On the other hand, we are doing a lot to streamline various aspects of the game, and that will significantly improve the late-game experience. For instance, you will be able to easily group units and command them as one. You can also select multiple cities and give them all the same build orders at the same time. Workers can be grouped together, and then their actions within that group can be queued--so you can tell three workers to build a road to a certain point and not have to mess with them for several turns. Finally, we eliminated the elements that tended to slow down the late game, including pollution cleanup, city riots, and units disbanding because you have money issues. So, the late-game experience should be as much fun as the rest of the game. Garrison your cities, or else someone will march in and take them from you. GS: Finally, there are a gazillion other nitpicks out there, but what was your personal nitpick, and how did you address it in Civ IV? BC: In Civ III, it made me a little crazy watching the AI tromp through my land with a settler/defender stack so they could plant a city on some open square on the other side of my empire. I couldn't get rid of them without starting a war because they would just come back in the next turn. I was left with the option of placing units in squares so they wouldn't think of them as open. In Civ IV, this is addressed two ways. First, the new city maintenance costs make this option less attractive to the AI (and other players in multiplayer), and second, they can't cross your land without declaring war unless you have established an open-borders treaty. GS: Thanks a lot, Barry! __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

08-20-2005, 01:05 PM	#88
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Thanks for posting that, it was very informative. I am still a little uneasy about "leader" traits in always being tied to the same civ. If it is random then that's cool and more than that, I would like to see so random that we may get up to 7 of the same type. This would help in the AI being more unpredictable when playing against as well as replayability.

08-20-2005, 01:30 PM	#90
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Understood. I wonder if you couldn't have a clue ahead of time as to the traits of the leader/civ and you have to find out the hard way...and that such traits could unpredictably change without you knowing about it. Even through diplomacy, you wouldn't be able to accurately tell. The point is that this is how the AI sees us.

08-20-2005, 01:55 PM	#91
aran High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA	I'm looking at some screenshots right now, and one big things that i noticed is that cities are taking up multiple tiles now. Awesome! i'm happy they finally added that into the game. So far this is looking excellent. The 3d engine, although i was very reserved about it at first, looks like it will really immerse me in the game more. The religion and cultural improvements looks very strong, and the SMAC-style government changing is outstanding.

08-21-2005, 04:15 PM	#94
Galaxy Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2005	Loving this game. I hope the MP works out well. I hope they fixed the alliances as well. They weren't very good. One tribe would work have an alliance with me, and they would settle a treaty. Or an alliance would go to war together, then bring in another partner, and one of those guys would go to war with each other.

08-21-2005, 04:32 PM	#95
saldana Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bethlehem, Pa	in response to several things throughout this thread i get civ 3 to work no prob on win xp systems, all i needed was the newest patch, if you cant find it online, pm me, i could set up someway for you to download it from my webpage. if there is a massive fofc MP game, count me in and although i mirror everyone elses concerns about the AI, i really want the play balance to be improved. nothing was more annoying to me than when i would attack a city and have my army of 8 or 10 armored knights be beaten one at a time by a single spearman, or even better, when my tanks would lose to a pikeman conscript. the balance needs to be worked out alot more. i would also like to see transport units for ground troops that function on land. i hated having to leave behind mounted troops to secure cities because the foot soldiers were 5 turns behind since they could only move 1 square at a time.

08-21-2005, 05:25 PM	#96
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	You know, I was surprised to see the dreaded spearman beats tank issue so prominently mentioned. I don't recall that being much of any issue in Civ2 (because of FP?).

08-21-2005, 05:58 PM	#98
aran High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA	I think the consolidation of A/D into a single Power rating really fixes that. Hopefully city walls won't be ridiculous, too....

08-31-2005, 08:41 AM	#100
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	Going back, I'm hoping he's correct about the AI no longer forming the "All against one" blocs, but rather seperating into distinct, seperate groups. That was my biggest pet peeve in Civ3 - I wanted the AI's to act distinctly in their individiual interests, not as one big group. Galactic Civilizations has done this better than any of the other games.

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