Pedro to the Mets

[Blackadar]

4 years, $56 million. Good luck, Mets.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Ramzavail

If the Mets don't get a MRI from Pedro, they are stupid.

Case closed.

If you dont sign Vlad b/c of a bad back, why sign Pedro with a bad arm?

Yes, if I were a Mets fan and they let him get away with that, I'd be upset. Sticking your head in the sand about something that serious would be a serious indication of incompetence.

And if he doesn't want an MRI it's pretty obvious that he thinks he has shoulder damage of some sort. You wonder if the Red Sox haven't had the same problem getting him to do it before. Prima donna.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Sheesh, that's like telling a cop it's okay to search your car, but don't look in the trunk.

CR

Yep. And trust me, that never works.

[Bomber]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

That's big. Rumors are strong around here (and they are just rumors) that Pedro has significant shoulder damage and is always just one pitch away from a torn labrum.

Lowe was offered arbitration. In this market, he may well get a nice offer. But there's always the chance he could accept arbitration the way Maddux did in his last year in Atlanta. Then use 2005 to make a case for the big contract.

I've always liked Lowe. I hope it works out that the Sox can keep him.

Jayson Stark has been reporting that he could have up to a 90% tear in his labrum.

[Desnudo]

He's known as a head case with confidence problems which is mainly why I don't think the Red Sox want to keep him. Although he pitched well in the playoffs, you're never sure what Lowe you're going to get. He might thrive in a lower pressure situation though.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I've always liked Lowe. I hope it works out that the Sox can keep him.

Does anyone know anything about his work ethic, in terms of keeping in shape and taking care of his body? He seems like a load, which makes me wonder how he will do as he ages.

I have little respect for the guy as a person, based on what I saw him do at a Twins game at the Metrodome. A friend of mine has great season tickets, in the first row, right beside the visiting bench, and I usually go to one or two of the Red Sox/Twins games each year. Last year, a fan came down and asked Lowe (who was on a rest day) for his autograph between innings. Although I couldn't hear what Lowe said, it was clear that he declined (as I think he should in the middle of a game). Whatever was said, though, the fan went ballistic, completely out of control. He was swearing and yelling at Lowe. I don't deny that the fan was a complete asshole, but all Lowe had to do was walk back into the dugout to get away from the guy, and the first row of seats is high up at the Metrodome, so it wasn't like the guy was anywhere close to Lowe. But Lowe chose to mix it up with the fan, and got into a verbal sparring match for a few minutes. There are lots of kids in the section, and it was an embarrassing performance. At the end of the game, Lowe was walking back into the dugout after congratulating his teammates, and he flashed the guy the finger as he walked off the field, right in front of the couple of hundred people that had assembled to get autographs. Ever since that time, it's been hard for me to respect Lowe. Frankly, he seems like an ass.

[Alan T]

From what I have seen, your experience with him at the Twins game seems pretty accurate for Lowe's personality. He has had a few times where he came off that way while with the Sox.

[Radii]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/041214

Does anyone else read this and think "What the fuck is wrong with Boston fans" ???

I know it's a generalization and a stereotype of the fans in Boston, but jesus christ, we've been hearing for 2 years how pedro can't go more than 6 innings, that he's always complaining and hurt, and now you win a world series and immediately start whining about how you aren't going to get to pay him $50 million for him to be broken on your roster instead of on the Mets roster?

GUH.

[Desnudo]

I think that's a gross generalization. Bill Simmon's really missed the target on fan sentiment in that article. I have complete confidence in Theo Epstein, as do the majority of Boston fans. The majority of fans are glad that Pedro signed with the Mets. He's wrong about David Wells. David Well's contract isn't guaranteed for $16 million, it's for roughly $3 million/year unless he pitches a certain amount of games. If he does that, he'll be worth the $16 million. I really don't know where the bitching is come from in that article, especially considering that free agency isn't close to being over yet. He talks about near misses, but the fact of the matter is that they didn't pan out. You look at what you have, not what might have been.

[Blackadar]

Use the money saved ($12.5m/yr) to sign Milton...and maybe Clements.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think that's a gross generalization. Bill Simmon's really missed the target on fan sentiment in that article. I have complete confidence in Theo Epstein, as do the majority of Boston fans. The majority of fans are glad that Pedro signed with the Mets. He's wrong about David Wells. David Well's contract isn't guaranteed for $16 million, it's for roughly $3 million/year unless he pitches a certain amount of games. If he does that, he'll be worth the $16 million.

I agree completely. Is Simmons on the same planet as the rest of us?

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I think that's a gross generalization. Bill Simmon's really missed the target on fan sentiment in that article. I have complete confidence in Theo Epstein, as do the majority of Boston fans. The majority of fans are glad that Pedro signed with the Mets. He's wrong about David Wells. David Well's contract isn't guaranteed for $16 million, it's for roughly $3 million/year unless he pitches a certain amount of games. If he does that, he'll be worth the $16 million. I really don't know where the bitching is come from in that article, especially considering that free agency isn't close to being over yet. He talks about near misses, but the fact of the matter is that they didn't pan out. You look at what you have, not what might have been.

i am certainly not glad that Pedro signed with the Mets. I would have loved to have him back and will miss him. However, i do not think it would be wise of the Red Sox to pay him the money the Mets are (pending MRI )

So i guess you could say, i'm glad we didn't sign Pedro for that kind of money

[vtbub]

He took the chance to be the go to guy, and the money. He's got his ring. No hard feelings from this lifelong Sox fan.

I would have hoped that he had been able to see the forest through the trees and settle being the Sox 1A-2 starter for 2 or 3 years, take less money and ride the wave of love coming next year in Boston.

In my book, they all have earned a lifetime pass. Way to swindle the Mets, Pede .

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by McSweeny

i am certainly not glad that Pedro signed with the Mets. I would have loved to have him back and will miss him. However, i do not think it would be wise of the Red Sox to pay him the money the Mets are (pending MRI )

So i guess you could say, i'm glad we didn't sign Pedro for that kind of money

That's what I meant to imply. Even the deal the Sox were willing to offer him seemed like too much for such a risk in my eyes. If he'd just take the damn MRI so we'd know what the real deal is...

[McSweeny]

i think this thread over at SOSH really sums up how us Red Sox fans feel about Pedro. Reading through it has brought tears to my eyes on more than one occasion

Link

[Fonzie]

Everything is official now, as it appears Pedro passed his physical(!).

Somebody should lose their job over this. Either Jayson Stark should fire the source of his "90% labrum tear" rumor or the Mets' evaluating physician should be fired for missing a 90% tear of the labrum.

Anyway, it is now being reported that the deal is for 4 years, $53 million. And Pedro is laughing all the way to the bank.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Renteria signs with the Sox!

$40 million for 4 years.

I feel bad that the Cardinals lose Renteria, but I like the move from the Red Sox perspective.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

Everything is official now, as it appears Pedro passed his physical(!).

Somebody should lose their job over this. Either Jayson Stark should fire the source of his "90% labrum tear" rumor or the Mets' evaluating physician should be fired for missing a 90% tear of the labrum.

Anyway, it is now being reported that the deal is for 4 years, $53 million. And Pedro is laughing all the way to the bank.

Did the physical include an MRI? And the guy who should be fired is the GM if he didn't force Pedro to take one.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Did the physical include an MRI? And the guy who should be fired is the GM if he didn't force Pedro to take one.

The AP article I read didn't say, but it did have this tidbit:

Earlier at a children's holiday benefit at Shea Stadium, Mets general manager Omar Minaya avoided questions about the agreement. Dressed in a red turtleneck shirt with a Mets' blue and orange Santa hat in his hand, he said the team generally asks all players with a history of injury to have an MRI exam, saying an exception would be "pretty rare.''

So, take that for what it's worth.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

The AP article I read didn't say, but it did have this tidbit:

Earlier at a children's holiday benefit at Shea Stadium, Mets general manager Omar Minaya avoided questions about the agreement. Dressed in a red turtleneck shirt with a Mets' blue and orange Santa hat in his hand, he said the team generally asks all players with a history of injury to have an MRI exam, saying an exception would be "pretty rare.''

So, take that for what it's worth.

Be interesting to hear the whole interview. From just this, it sounds like an evasive "No".

Don't professional baseball teams carry salary insurance in case of a career-ending injury to a player? And if so, wouldn't any insurance company require their own evaluation of the player, or at the very least to see the results of the official physical at the time the contract was signed? I find it hard to believe that the Mets could get insurance for Martinez without an MRI on his shoulder.

[Fonzie]

From the NYTimes:

As a television news helicopter hovered near Westchester County Airport yesterday and an estimated 50 cameras were positioned outside, Pedro Martínez landed in a private hangar miles away, then went to show the Mets' doctors that his right arm has more than a few fastballs left in it.

Few physical examinations have held as much intrigue. Exams for free agents are generally regarded as formalities, but when it comes to Martínez, nothing seems routine. There were questions about whether he would submit to a magnetic resonance imaging exam and whether damage in the labrum of his right shoulder would scare the Mets away from signing him.

Martínez took the M.R.I., passed the physical and will be introduced as a Met in a news conference at Shea Stadium today at 11 a.m. Omar Minaya, the Mets' general manager, and Fernando Cuza, Martínez's agent, completed a four-year guaranteed contract yesterday that is believed to be worth about $56 million.

---------------------

So, it appears he took an MRI. The article doesn't say what the MRI found, but he at least took one. I'd be surprised if Minaya would (or could, as GB suggested) complete the deal with positive MRI findings, but you never know.

Enjoy your new starting pitcher, Mets fans!

[Desnudo]

That's interesting. I would love to hear what the MRI found, if anything.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

That's interesting. I would love to hear what the MRI found, if anything.

I'm sure those results will be leaked sooner or later. Hopefully sooner, as I'd love to know too.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

I'm sure those results will be leaked sooner or later. Hopefully sooner, as I'd love to know too.

As far as a torn labrum, I don't think you can tell from an MRI. They've been saying only exporatory surgery can determine the potential damage.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz

Is Simmons on the same planet as the rest of us?

No, he lives in Los Angeles. It's the planet just past New York.

[CraigSca]

I just got back home and heard Omar Minaya being interviewed on WFAN. I almost had to pull over and vomit.

First, the interviewers (not Mike and the Mad Dog) were just GUSHING about how Pedro is a superstar and was the best free agent pitcher this year (please). Next, Minaya tried to focus on how this signing means more than just Pedro pitching everything 5th (6th or 7th - ha!) day. He was talking about how having Pedro on the team is going to allow the Mets to attract and sign many more Dominican players in the future. I love the spin on this - as if the Red Sox were Dominican Republic North during Martinez's tenure there.

This is another futile attempt by the Mets to steal the back page from the Yankees, nothing more.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I just got back home and heard Omar Minaya being interviewed on WFAN. I almost had to pull over and vomit.

First, the interviewers (not Mike and the Mad Dog) were just GUSHING about how Pedro is a superstar and was the best free agent pitcher this year (please). Next, Minaya tried to focus on how this signing means more than just Pedro pitching everything 5th (6th or 7th - ha!) day. He was talking about how having Pedro on the team is going to allow the Mets to attract and sign many more Dominican players in the future. I love the spin on this - as if the Red Sox were Dominican Republic North during Martinez's tenure there.

This is another futile attempt by the Mets to steal the back page from the Yankees, nothing more.

Did you hear the press conference? It was one of the funnier things I've heard. After Minaya spoke they wanted to get Pedro and Willie on the stage and I guess they had to move some things and the whole room starts yelling and carrying on. All you can hear is "You have to move it over there Joe! Move it this way." At one point somebody unplugged the mics.

It sounded like there were like 1000 people there with the commotion. The reporters were trying to take pictures and I one guy started yelling "Come on, I've been standing here 20 minutes!"

Total chaos.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I just got back home and heard Omar Minaya being interviewed on WFAN. I almost had to pull over and vomit.

First, the interviewers (not Mike and the Mad Dog) were just GUSHING about how Pedro is a superstar and was the best free agent pitcher this year (please). Next, Minaya tried to focus on how this signing means more than just Pedro pitching everything 5th (6th or 7th - ha!) day. He was talking about how having Pedro on the team is going to allow the Mets to attract and sign many more Dominican players in the future. I love the spin on this - as if the Red Sox were Dominican Republic North during Martinez's tenure there.

This is another futile attempt by the Mets to steal the back page from the Yankees, nothing more.

They do have Ramirez and Ortiz although who knows what the relationship is if any. Ortiz apparently married some girl from Milwaukee and is building a house there so I don't know how much he has in common with Mango Tree.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

They do have Ramirez and Ortiz although who knows what the relationship is if any. Ortiz apparently married some girl from Milwaukee and is building a house there so I don't know how much he has in common with Mango Tree.

There's no doubt that the Red Sox are by far the most popular team in the Dominican. That's largely due to Pedro. I can see where the Mets are coming from but I don't see the Sox popularity changing unless Pedro and the Mets win. Minaya is correct that if they win a World Series it will help their recruiting but I think the whole premise is that Pedro isn't what he once was.

I kind of makes Martinez look foolish with his GM saying that one of the major reasons we got him was to be an ambassador to the Dominican rather than saying we think he can win 20 games.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

There's no doubt that the Red Sox are by far the most popular team in the Dominican. That's largely due to Pedro. I can see where the Mets are coming from but I don't see the Sox popularity changing unless Pedro and the Mets win. Minaya is correct that if they win a World Series it will help their recruiting but I think the whole premise is that Pedro isn't what he once was.

I kind of makes Martinez look foolish with his GM saying that one of the major reasons we got him was to be an ambassador to the Dominican rather than saying we think he can win 20 games.

I read an article about feelings in the Dominican and the general opinion was that Pedro would be considered a traitor to the Red Sox if he left, not vice versa. If he had signed with the Yankees it might have been anarchy. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

[Logan]

Just a bump...

A few of you were ripping into Bill Simmons for his take on this subject, wondering how someone could complain about Pedro's lack of durability, and then rip team management for not giving him 4 years. Well, here's a quote from his "end of the year" column:

Even recently, my column after Pedro left the Red Sox was one of the most incoherent things I've ever turned in -- I'm not even sure what I was trying to say. But that's the thing about columns. You have good days and bad days. It's like being a hitter in baseball. You're not going 4-for-4 every day, and you're not going 0-for-4 every day -- unless you're Michael Gee.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/041228