(Page 2) "Don't like USA Basketball? You MUST be racist!"

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by druez

Well aparently the olympians do and the millions that watch them... Its a tradition that dates back a long time ago well before our professional sports leagues.

The fact that it was a place for people to gather and not fight, but compete on an even playing field.

I don't care who's in the medal lead, and I don't care if one of "our" teams wins. If I root at all, it's for individuals. So don't give me some country music lecture about how I should be rooting for the American team, or else I'm a traitor.

It's fucking sports, for chrissakes. Just because Iran thinks beating the US in soccer is an indictment of our system of goverment and a defeat of the Great Satan, doesn't mean we have to stoop to their pathetic level. It's a sporting event - nothing more, nothing less, IMO.

[Gary Gorski]

dola - and FTR I want our team to win the gold simply because they are representing the USA. If they were representing the NBA as an NBA All-Star team I'd be happy to see them get trounced to show that the current NBA style of play is seriously flawed.

[Passacaglia]

Are you kidding me? So South Korea didn't have an attitude about the judges? You are saying that most countries over there don't want to beat the US? The US is the yankee's or cowboys. You either love em or you don't. I just figured you would want your own country to win at something.

I didn't quite emphasize my point, I think. I was noting that this guy told the Spanish coach that it was his rule. Did the Spanish coach make it up? No. It's part of the rules of international play, which the US is a part of. I don't see the South Korea situation as being the same.

[Radii]

ok. First of all. It is spelled ROOT. You ROOT for a team. You rout an opponent, and you route data. you ROOT for your team.

More thoughtful replies to follow, but that is bugging the shit out of me.

[Huckleberry]

[Random Thought]Damn I wish TJ Ford were healthy. I think having him and, say, JJ Redick on the squad would be worth another 12 points a game. The way he sliced up the Syracuse zone in the Final Four was phenomenal. Of course, we had no answer on defense for Syracuse, but that's another story[/Random Thought]

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by Radii

ok. First of all. It is spelled ROOT. You ROOT for a team. You rout an opponent, and you route data. you ROOT for your team.

More thoughtful replies to follow, but that is bugging the shit out of me.

Well, today has been a banner day at FOFC for typing "your" instead of "you're" but I've stayed quiet so far. NO LONGER!!!

[druez]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Of course they weren't - the Russians were beating up everyone they played and appeared to be on their way to the gold. If our Dream Team was winning like they did in prior Olympics then everyone would either be happy or not care - nobody would be complaining that we're beating up the world by 30 point margins.

And to that point, I'm sure nobody in the Soviet Union was lining up to congratulate their players when they lost to the Americans so why should we be happy about players who are representing our country so poorly?

They can still win the gold. I know I will be happy if they win the gold.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

taking the team with by leaps and bounds the most talent in the games and getting beat by inferior opponents with not one single player good enough to sniff our professional league.

Every team that has beaten us has an NBA starter.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

You know, to be perfectly honest I have wondered if some of the people who talk about how much they hate the NBA, how much they love college ball, how great things used to be, how the "traditional" style is better, etc., were just finding a nice way to say they like basketball more when it's played by white guys.

This may well be true for some, but I, much like vtbub said very well later on, do not care what color person plays the sport.

I also found myself rooting for the pistons, a team I despised when they had Isiah and Laimbeer.

When I say I love the style, I mean that I love the style, there's no hidden agenda behind that. I enjoy watching womens ball, and I enjoy watching college ball. I enjoy a well executed zone.

My favorite team has not a white guy to be found in its starting lineup, Ray Felton, Jawad Williams, Rashad McCants, Sean May and Jackie Manuel(or one of the freshmen). But they play as a team. They play an entertaining style of basketball.


There are those who wish it was a white game I suppose, but (referring to a later comment from druez now, not from ML) saying that those who don't like the NBA are "mostly guys who are in their 50s-60s who still talk about Bob Cousey" is dead wrong, at least on this board. I'm 27, and I hate the NBA, and I long for the days of Magic, Worthy, and Kareem... not the set shots taken by white players in the 50s.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Every team that has beaten us has an NBA starter.

By NBA starter do you mean a starter that plays in the NBA or a player that starts in the NBA?

[druez]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

dola - and FTR I want our team to win the gold simply because they are representing the USA. If they were representing the NBA as an NBA All-Star team I'd be happy to see them get trounced to show that the current NBA style of play is seriously flawed.

Agreed, but if it was an NBA allstar team Gary, a good many of those europians / Asians might be on that team. Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitsky, Steve Nash. I'm sure there are others, but those came to mind first.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Radii

There are those who wish it was a white game I suppose, but (referring to a later comment from druez now, not from ML) saying that those who don't like the NBA are "mostly guys who are in their 50s-60s who still talk about Bob Cousey" is dead wrong, at least on this board. I'm 27, and I hate the NBA, and I long for the days of Magic, Worthy, and Kareem... not the set shots taken by white players in the 50s.

My reference was to the people of my fathers generation. I can't stand to hear him and his racist bs about basketball.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Every team that has beaten us has an NBA starter.

Only Puerto Rico's Arroyo starts in the NBA. Lithuania's Darius Songalia is not an NBA starter.

[Radii]

And the other topic, the olympic team.

There has been a lot of discussion on why an American woudlnt' support his team. Racism and 9/11 cards have both been played. And to those looking for a conspiracy, I think you're seriously looking in the wrong place.


Here is, in the most concise(sp) way I can think to say it the reason I am rooting for the US to get embarrassed:

2nd tier NBA stars cannot dominate the rest of the world anymore. Those putting the team together failed to realize this. If we can get Shaq/Kidd/Duncan/Garnett on the floor together, then we can screw around and dominate and win gold. If we cannot, then we do not put Iverson/Richard Jefferson/Stephon Marbuy/Lamar Odom on the floor and expect the same dominance. We build a TEAM that can play as a TEAM and we dont' rely on our talent to be so great that we roll over the rest of the world. We get tenacious defenders, and we get spot shooters. We get passing point guards. We build our team toward the international style, NOT just build a 2nd tier all-star team.

We were humiliated in the World Championships. Perhaps if we also got humiliated in the Olympics, we'd learn our lessons, and we could easily build a team to dominate in 2008. Instead, we look like we're going to limp into a medal(possibly even the gold) and will likely fuck up the selection again the next time around.


Note that I will not be sad if we win the gold. But I will be happier if we end up with an experience that teaches those that select the team a big lesson.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Only Puerto Rico's Arroyo starts in the NBA. Lithuania's Darius Songalia is not an NBA starter.

I think Songalia OUGHT to start of Chris Webber.

Does that make me a racist?

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I think Songalia OUGHT to start of Chris Webber.

Does that make me a racist?

No - probably just makes you a run of the mill Kings fan or Ohio State/Michigan State fanboy

[Radii]

Originally Posted by druez

My reference was to the people of my fathers generation. I can't stand to hear him and his racist bs about basketball.

I'm sure there are those like that, and that's a totally valid point. But it's not the norm. My dad talks about old school basketball and baseball with fondness, not because of racist tendencies, but because watching the games was a good childhood memory.


My dad was born in 1947, we've never talked about Jackie Robinson or an influx of black players into baseball in the 50s in a positive or a negative light. Like many, he was just a kid that grew up loving the games, just like I did. To many it's quite simply "now vs then" not "now with blacks vs then with whites"

[Huckleberry]

Radii makes a good point on the selection process and what we're all hoping for. The best possible result is a gold medal combined with USA Basketball and the NBA finally realizing what has been obvious all this time. Simply put, we don't have any confidence that both can happen.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

I don't like them because they don't play as a team.

I don't like them because their conduct after every other foul called on them is disgraceful.

I don't like them because they don't scrap for every single loose ball. You don't have to be an All-Star to do that.

I don't like them because I am sick of hearing excuses from their head coach.

Other than that, they are cool with me. Go USA!

Admit it, HFP. You don't like them because you're racist.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Admit it, HFP. You don't like them because you're racist.

Hmm. There's a thread around here somewhere that one could use to hurl accusations at HFP that he couldn't respond to.

[HornedFrog Purple]

haters

The sad thing that I believe will happen is the plethora of excuses coming from Team USA will coverup the more genuine problems this team (and any subsequent teams they send if they keep the same formula) has.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

I don't like them because they don't play as a team.

I don't like them because their conduct after every other foul called on them is disgraceful.

I don't like them because they don't scrap for every single loose ball. You don't have to be an All-Star to do that.

I don't like them because I am sick of hearing excuses from their head coach.

Other than that, they are cool with me. Go USA!

Add to that the lack of passion for the game, and I agree with the Purple Frog 100%

[druez]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Add to that the lack of passion for the game, and I agree with the Purple Frog 100%

Here is a penny go buy a clue. To say that our current team doesn't have passion for the game is an insane and a 100% completely BS statement.

While Iverson may be an ass, he does have a passion for basketball. That guy gives it his all all the time. Tim Duncan and the rest all wanted to go over there.

They have passion, but they just can't hit an open jump shot.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by druez

Here is a penny go buy a clue. To say that our current team doesn't have passion for the game is an insane and a 100% completely BS statement.

While Iverson may be an ass, he does have a passion for basketball. That guy gives it his all all the time. Tim Duncan and the rest all wanted to go over there.

They have passion, but they just can't hit an open jump shot.

I call bullshit on you calling bullshit.

Team USA is physically WAYYY more talented than any other team in the Olympics. Period.

If they're losing it's for one (or both) of two reasons:

1. They don't "get" the international game, and they're not able to apply their skills to a modified set of rules.
2. They're not putting forth sufficient effort to guard players who pass the ball well and shoot with accuracy.

In either case, it's not lack of talent. It's lack of preparation, lack of effort, or both. These guys are being coddled too damned much. They live on cruise ships because they're too good to stay in the Olympic village with the other athletes. They don't practice hard, and they rarely play hard, and for that, they deserve to get beat.

I don't hope they lose, but I certainly don't care if they win, either. I'd rather see a team of amateurs over there representing my country and treating it with the degree of respect and reverence it deserves.

[Huckleberry]

Franklin -

I do have my doubts regarding the talent of most of our players for shooting the basketball. While part of their issues with that is certainly a lack of practice in the NBA game, some of them just don't look very natural shooting the ball.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

You know, to be perfectly honest I have wondered if some of the people who talk about how much they hate the NBA, how much they love college ball, how great things used to be, how the "traditional" style is better, etc., were just finding a nice way to say they like basketball more when it's played by white guys.

Turthfully, I thought the same thing. Everytime I hear someone carping about how wrong it is for (pretty much all black) NBA players to leave school early or skip college, I wonder why the same standard does not apply in baseball. I personally think they all should- their money, their life- but I find people to be more vicious in their disdain for the former as opposed to the latter (which may have something to do with the profiles of the draft as well).

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

The nba has always been predominately black. In fact, there are probably more white players today than ever before. I don't think your point is totally out of the equation but I have to doubt it's a major factor.

No, it hasnt. It used to far more white in the the early 50's and 60's...



edit: realized I was late to this party. Damn productivity!

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

The nba has always been predominately black. In fact, there are probably more white players today than ever before. I don't think your point is totally out of the equation but I have to doubt it's a major factor.

OK, fair enough. I realize most people won't care about the pigments in a player's skin.

That said, there's certainly seems to be a difference in basketball culture that's apparent here. You have the flashy, trash-talking, dunks and no-looks style that came from playgrounds and parking lots. And you have a restrained, pass-first, tactical game that comes from college and prep school programs. And I don't think black and whites are equally represented in those two groups.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Embarrasing us in front of the world by taking the team with by leaps and bounds the most talent in the games and getting beat by inferior opponents with not one single player good enough to sniff our professional league in the sport that our country invented might have something to do with it.

umm- where do you get this Gary ? Puerto Rico's starting point guard is the Jazz's starting point guard- so clearly they "sniff" the league. A bunch of other teams have players that are certainly NBA caliber, but often choose to stay in Europe. You may have had a point, but you took it too far.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Turthfully, I thought the same thing. Everytime I hear someone carping about how wrong it is for (pretty much all black) NBA players to leave school early or skip college, I wonder why the same standard does not apply in baseball. I personally think they all should- their money, their life- but I find people to be more vicious in their disdain for the former as opposed to the latter (which may have something to do with the profiles of the draft as well).

Baseball has always had a minor league system, and for decades, that was normal path to the big leagues. College baseball wasn't an important sport, and it's been a fairly recent development that so many players play in college first before going pro. That's why there's a different standard, not race.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by druez

Here is a penny go buy a clue. To say that our current team doesn't have passion for the game is an insane and a 100% completely BS statement.

While Iverson may be an ass, he does have a passion for basketball. That guy gives it his all all the time. Tim Duncan and the rest all wanted to go over there.

They have passion, but they just can't hit an open jump shot.

Well now Jason you know what you can do with that penny don't you?

Does Iverson and the rest have talent? Yup. Do they deserve credit for going to the Olympics when others wussed out? Absolutely. To say that Iverson has passion for basketball is just a joke. Iverson has passion for himself, the fame, and the cash. I don't see anything other than that when he plays. Same thing with the rest of the NBA.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by clintl

Baseball has always had a minor league system, and for decades, that was normal path to the big leagues. College baseball wasn't an important sport, and it's been a fairly recent development that so many players play in college first before going pro. That's why there's a different standard, not race.

Agreed- I dont think race is a forefront factor in many minds, but I do think it may play a role for a few. I think the relative profiles of the draft may have something to do with it as well, but I still find the hatred and idiocy directed to someone leaving early to be ridiculous.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Well now Jason you know what you can do with that penny don't you?

Does Iverson and the rest have talent? Yup. Do they deserve credit for going to the Olympics when others wussed out? Absolutely. To say that Iverson has passion for basketball is just a joke. Iverson has passion for himself, the fame, and the cash. I don't see anything other than that when he plays. Same thing with the rest of the NBA.

Yes, because we know you to be an expert on the subject..

[SirFozzie]

Aadik: Where the fuck did that come from?

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Aadik: Where the fuck did that come from?

Sorry- that was harsh - my apologies.. Suffice to say that after seeing Farrah discuss how torture was "foreplay" or that groups of brown men on planes must be terrorist, she tends to bring out the worst in me.

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Turthfully, I thought the same thing. Everytime I hear someone carping about how wrong it is for (pretty much all black) NBA players to leave school early or skip college, I wonder why the same standard does not apply in baseball. I personally think they all should- their money, their life- but I find people to be more vicious in their disdain for the former as opposed to the latter (which may have something to do with the profiles of the draft as well).

Raises hand to respond.

I think if players in MLB made the direct jump from High School or Second year at Arizona State to facing the Yankees at Fenway that same season, you probably see more on that.

While the lure of the NBA is untold riches and all the goodies that come with that, players who come out after high school or leave college early have a 4 or 5 year climb to even get into MLB parks, and that's if they are lucky.

A more valid comparison would be tennis stars or golfers. Even, they have to prove themselves week in and week out.

LeBron James has been the only kid I've ever seen that was truly ready to play straight out of high school. Carmelo Anthony benefitted greatly from his season at Syracuse. A lot of the kids who come out early, don't have the talent/maturity/skills that they have been told they have for their entire lives and crash and burn. Kobe and KG are exceptions to the not fitting rule.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Turthfully, I thought the same thing. Everytime I hear someone carping about how wrong it is for (pretty much all black) NBA players to leave school early or skip college, I wonder why the same standard does not apply in baseball. I personally think they all should- their money, their life- but I find people to be more vicious in their disdain for the former as opposed to the latter (which may have something to do with the profiles of the draft as well).

The same standard does not apply because college has always been the entry league into the NBA. Unless you're an international player it's still like that, NBDL notwithstanding.

My thoughts remain the same on players leaving early. If you're not a lottery pick, stay in college. Maybe if your family has serious serious financial hardship, go if you're going to be a first round pick. But there are a large number of players leaving early that will get drafted in the second round where there is little guarentee of anything, or not drafted at all.


This isn't a system where you can take a shot at the big time and if it doesn't work out, you just go play in the minors... if you get shunned on draft day, you're cast out, the "minor leagues"(college in this situation) won't let you back either.

My desire to see players stay in college is purely selfish, as i'm a college basketball fan. But for a large number that go pro early/out of high school, they are making a terrible, terrible life decision that everyone can see but them.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Raises hand to respond.

I think if players in MLB made the direct jump from High School or Second year at Arizona State to facing the Yankees at Fenway that same season, you probably see more on that.

While the lure of the NBA is untold riches and all the goodies that come with that, players who come out after high school or leave college early have a 4 or 5 year climb to even get into MLB parks, and that's if they are lucky.

A more valid comparison would be tennis stars or golfers. Even, they have to prove themselves week in and week out.

LeBron James has been the only kid I've ever seen that was truly ready to play straight out of high school. Carmelo Anthony benefitted greatly from his season at Syracuse. A lot of the kids who come out early, don't have the talent/maturity/skills that they have been told they have for their entire lives and crash and burn. Kobe and KG are exceptions to the not fitting rule.

You're right- tennis and golf are the better examples. IN either case though, the money one can make and the security you can guarantee might make it worthwhile- hell, If I could defer college for 3 years to earn at least a million dollars- well, even if one crashed and burned, its a nice landing. In either case, its their choice- and I can understand anyone going for the gold.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Well now Jason you know what you can do with that penny don't you?

Does Iverson and the rest have talent? Yup. Do they deserve credit for going to the Olympics when others wussed out? Absolutely. To say that Iverson has passion for basketball is just a joke. Iverson has passion for himself, the fame, and the cash. I don't see anything other than that when he plays. Same thing with the rest of the NBA.

The fact that Iverson throws his body around like a volley ball player diving for balls all over the place and plays some great defense should mean something also.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Aadik

umm- where do you get this Gary ? Puerto Rico's starting point guard is the Jazz's starting point guard- so clearly they "sniff" the league. A bunch of other teams have players that are certainly NBA caliber, but often choose to stay in Europe. You may have had a point, but you took it too far.

I already pointed out that Arroyo was the only NBA starter on a team that beat the US. Lithuania has one NBA reserve and teams like Italy have no NBA players whatsoever. Even though that was a pre-Olympic game it was still a game versus international competition.

And I'm dead on about many of these players not being able to sniff the NBA - they are not adept at dunking, standing around on offense and playing one on one basketball. If you put an entire team in the NBA I think they could fare alright but taking one player out of most of the world's talent pool and placing him in the NBA would be a disaster for that player because he would not understand how to play with his NBA teammates and they would not understand how to play with him.

[druez]

Originally Posted by vtbub

Raises hand to respond.

I think if players in MLB made the direct jump from High School or Second year at Arizona State to facing the Yankees at Fenway that same season, you probably see more on that.

While the lure of the NBA is untold riches and all the goodies that come with that, players who come out after high school or leave college early have a 4 or 5 year climb to even get into MLB parks, and that's if they are lucky.

A more valid comparison would be tennis stars or golfers. Even, they have to prove themselves week in and week out.

LeBron James has been the only kid I've ever seen that was truly ready to play straight out of high school. Carmelo Anthony benefitted greatly from his season at Syracuse. A lot of the kids who come out early, don't have the talent/maturity/skills that they have been told they have for their entire lives and crash and burn. Kobe and KG are exceptions to the not fitting rule.

Kobbie did ok also.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Radii

The same standard does not apply because college has always been the entry league into the NBA. Unless you're an international player it's still like that, NBDL notwithstanding.

My thoughts remain the same on players leaving early. If you're not a lottery pick, stay in college. Maybe if your family has serious serious financial hardship, go if you're going to be a first round pick. But there are a large number of players leaving early that will get drafted in the second round where there is little guarentee of anything, or not drafted at all.


This isn't a system where you can take a shot at the big time and if it doesn't work out, you just go play in the minors... if you get shunned on draft day, you're cast out, the "minor leagues"(college in this situation) won't let you back either.

My desire to see players stay in college is purely selfish, as i'm a college basketball fan. But for a large number that go pro early/out of high school, they are making a terrible, terrible life decision that everyone can see but them.

no- they are making a decision that affects your rooting interest for your team. If in my second year of college, someone offered me $3 million over 3 years, I'd damn well jump at it- I know Im smart enough to get my degree if it doesnt work out. This terrible life decision is terrible, why ? If they're good enough, theyll survive- if they dont., they wont. End of story- the lure of that much money and freedom is certainly not a terrible decision, given the potential upside.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Turthfully, I thought the same thing. Everytime I hear someone carping about how wrong it is for (pretty much all black) NBA players to leave school early or skip college, I wonder why the same standard does not apply in baseball. I personally think they all should- their money, their life- but I find people to be more vicious in their disdain for the former as opposed to the latter (which may have something to do with the profiles of the draft as well).

The difference is entirely on how the leagues work; I don't see how race factors into it at all. Baseball has a minor league system which works as the training ground for kids coming out of high school or college. Baseketball and football do not.

As for NBA/NFL kids leaving college early, I think the general disdain for that stems from our love of the college games. People want to see the best college-age talent play college sports, and in turn the players get an education as well as valuable playing experience that will benefit them at the higher level.

As for NBA kids skipping college altogether, I think it's part lamenting what the colleges have lost (or never got) in terms of basketball talent, and part a realization that a good many of these kids have very little chance of succeeding in the NBA - which is something that they appear to be blind to.

In either of these scenarios, I have yet to see how race factors into the criticisms of these players. It's either a criticism about not honoring a commitment to a college for the full 4 years, or it's a criticism of the player's ability to perform in the NBA straight out of high school. Where does race come up at all?

The fact that you're able to distinguish between the sports, as opposed to the type of people, is where the real answer as to the distinction lies.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by druez

The fact that Iverson throws his body around like a volley ball player diving for balls all over the place and plays some great defense should mean something also.

And that goes to his skills as a player - not his passion for the game. I just don't see it.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

And that goes to his skills as a player - not his passion for the game. I just don't see it.

Of course you don't because you don't watch basketball

[clintl]

Originally Posted by vtbub

LeBron James has been the only kid I've ever seen that was truly ready to play straight out of high school. Carmelo Anthony benefitted greatly from his season at Syracuse. A lot of the kids who come out early, don't have the talent/maturity/skills that they have been told they have for their entire lives and crash and burn. Kobe and KG are exceptions to the not fitting rule.

It was a long time ago, so maybe people forgot, but Moses Malone was pretty good straight out of high school, too.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by druez

Of course you don't because you don't watch basketball

Sure I do. Not as much as I did in college, and not as much as I watch college basketball.And why not? Because I don't enjoy watching millionares showboating instead of playing like a team.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

I don't see anything other than that when he plays. Same thing with the rest of the NBA.

You obviously didn't follow the Pistons. I watched every single game last season (and for the past few years) and have NEVER gotten that impression. I'm not going to waste my time, but if you don't like the sport, say you don't like the sport. But don't say make broad indictment of the entire NBA and everyone in it. You're a republican and we live in a capitalistic society, yet you are going to deny these men their market value? Seems hypocritical.

[SlapBone]

Originally Posted by druez

Of course you don't because you don't watch basketball

Farrah...call his wife and he'll stop this shit... or at least he will get bitched at.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Sure I do. Not as much as I did in college, and not as much as I watch college basketball.And why not? Because I don't enjoy watching millionares showboating instead of playing like a team.

Again, apparantly you didn't follow the Pistons.

You should really quit while you're ahead.