Alan Keyes "Slave Reparation" plan

[CraigSca]

Personally, I feel I should receive reparations for watching "Beloved".

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Personally, I feel I should receive reparations for watching "Beloved".

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You would probably be surprised on what you could find with a little effort. Groups for reparations (or just interested in geneology in particular) might have much more information than you think. It probably would be that some would not be able to come up with the info, but I think it would be a pretty small percentage.

You may be correct on that stance, but it all depends on location, circumstances, etc. Let's say there is this Caucasian guy who is about 1/32 or 1/16 Black and also discovers this guy is a former slave. Well Alan Keyes is proposing that Blacks are going to be helped here, but it will help out some Caucasians, a lot more American Indians and anyone else who fornicated with a former slave. What this is going to do is not only tick off a lot of people, but it will also defeat the purpose of the reparations. Isn't his purpose to help out the people who are a majority Black? Imagine the backlash from those who couldn't prove they were descendants and the others who are gaining benefit from it.

[judicial clerk]

I am against reparations generally. I think the injury is too remote and speculative.

That said, I would admit that, based on my limited study of US history, the treament of african slaves in the United States is the greatest injustice perpetrated against any group in the history of the country. Nothing else is even close in my mind. This is not to say that other groups (native Americans, japanese americans imprisoned during world war II, etc.) did not suffer grevious injustices, but the treatment of African slaves is just the worst thing short of geonicide that I might have heard of.

Noop's comment was funny. I am suprised someone in this thread hasn't already minimized the value of his comments because of his age. That dude can't write hello without somebody jumping his shit for being so young.

[Easy Mac]

I just minimized it by attempting to ridicule Harvey Weinstein... he's just an easier target than poon

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Isn't his purpose to help out the people who are a majority Black? Imagine the backlash from those who couldn't prove they were descendants and the others who are gaining benefit from it.

I think the purpose is reparations. I mentioned from the begining it opened problems, and this is one of them. But, any reparation plan is going to run in to those problems, and the vast majority of Blacks are for reparations.

Again, this is already happening among AI. My friend is 1/16th AI, has never lived on a reservation, but is in the process of getting his AI benefits. Proof of ancestry is the main requirement.

[cuervo72]

I think WigFL is about 5/16 AI. Wonder if Wig has done his paperwork.

[Apathetic Lurker]

I demand reparations for all those Polish jokes which have had psychologicaly
crippled us Polish-Americans.

[Solecismic]

The problem I have is that my ancestors demonstrably did not contribute to slavery, so why should I share the burden with everyone else? My father was discriminated against in his job for solely ethnic reasons (it was much more upfront in the 50s and 60s), so I didn't get a leg up solely for having paler skin than most (I burn rather than tan).

If people are to be punished when they clearly were not responsible, then shouldn't all Americans, including black Americans, share the burden of responsibility?

I'm with noop. Let's teach everyone to stand on their own two feet. Create job training programs in areas with high schools that aren't getting the job done. Create incentives for companies to provide jobs in poorer areas (surely that's better than sending the jobs overseas).

We have to stop focusing on skin color 24/7 and start focusing on solutions that benefit all Americans.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Apatheric Lurker

I demand reparations for all those Polish jokes which have had psychologicaly
crippled us Polish-Americans.

Oh, come on. You didn't get most of them.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The problem I have is that my ancestors demonstrably did not contribute to slavery, so why should I share the burden with everyone else? My father was discriminated against in his job for solely ethnic reasons (it was much more upfront in the 50s and 60s), so I didn't get a leg up solely for having paler skin than most (I burn rather than tan).

If people are to be punished when they clearly were not responsible, then shouldn't all Americans, including black Americans, share the burden of responsibility?

I'm with noop. Let's teach everyone to stand on their own two feet. Create job training programs in areas with high schools that aren't getting the job done. Create incentives for companies to provide jobs in poorer areas (surely that's better than sending the jobs overseas).

We have to stop focusing on skin color 24/7 and start focusing on solutions that benefit all Americans.

How are those programs going to be payed for? They will come out of your pocket just as much as a reparations plan. Your parents also weren't involved with the oppression of the AI, yet you are still paying for it. I completely agree that we should stop focusing on skin color, but this issue is not going away any time soon.

(Again, just playing devil's advocate, since no one else will take up this fight)

[Qwikshot]

I'm rich, biyatch!

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Oh, come on. You didn't get most of them.

DOH!!!(smacking forehead)

[revrew]

I had been an Alan Keyes supporter in previous presidentials. Part of his local party rah-rah and all that. Frankly, I dunno what the heck he is doing in Illinois. I consider the whole thing one of the wierdest, if not stupidest political moves I've ever seen.

Something that might not be immediately apparent here is Keyes' previous stance on income taxes in general. Keyes has been fundamentally opposed to the national income tax in general. He makes a good case for the federal income tax being unconstitutional to begin with. He's been in favor of eliminating it for all people.

Hmm...is this his quirky attempt at a first step toward a complete phase-out of income tax? Dunno what to think.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

How are those programs going to be payed for? They will come out of your pocket just as much as a reparations plan. Your parents also weren't involved with the oppression of the AI, yet you are still paying for it. I completely agree that we should stop focusing on skin color, but this issue is not going away any time soon.

(Again, just playing devil's advocate, since no one else will take up this fight)

Presumably, 1) by wasting less money on failing educational programs - tracking students who would otherwise drop out and require more, long-term, in services and getting them valuable skills in schools that lean more toward vocational education (leaving smaller high schools with students more interested in going on to college), and 2) by getting companies to reinvest in urban areas, you reduce the need for other services.

I do not believe Native Americans should receive special benefits. I do not support special casinos, and will not go to one. We can not correct every injustice, starting and not ending with those done to my family. All we can do is aim for justice in the present and future.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Oh, come on. You didn't get most of them.

Gold.

[Apathetic Lurker]

I demand reperations from this board!

[Surtt]

Aside from the issue of reparations, this idea doesn't make sense.

1. Not paying federal income tax dosen't make you more attractive to an employer, it doesn't affect him at all.
2. The people that need the help are low/no income and do not pay much if any income tax now.
3. With the reduction in income tax, the government will be forced to scale back programs for the poor.

The whole thing is self defeating.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Surtt

Aside from the issue of reparations, this idea doesn't make sense.

1. Not paying federal income tax dosen't make you more attractive to an employer, it doesn't affect him at all.
2. The people that need the help are low/no income and do not pay much if any income tax now.
3. With the reduction in income tax, the government will be forced to scale back programs for the poor.

The whole thing is self defeating.

No it wouldn't. You and I would just have to dig deeper into our pockets to please Uncle Sam

[The Afoci]

I am a love slave to my hand. Pay the man.

I got nothing.

[Blackadar]

They don't have to pay, I'm not paying either.

[dfisher]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

If everyone was 1/16th Allen Iverson, we'd all be in some trouble.

The rate he is going, pretty soon the entire country is going to be 1/16th Shawn Kemp.

Dan

[psychedelicate-girl]

Originally Posted by Surtt

Aside from the issue of reparations, this idea doesn't make sense.

1. Not paying federal income tax dosen't make you more attractive to an employer, it doesn't affect him at all.

Well, if the employee does not have to pay any federal income tax, then the employer does not have to take out those taxes and keep up with them, so the employer is affected.

[stevew]

Alan keyes is silly.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by psychedelicate-girl

Well, if the employee does not have to pay any federal income tax, then the employer does not have to take out those taxes and keep up with them, so the employer is affected.

And an employee that isn't paying taxes, may be willing to accept a lower wage.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think the purpose is reparations.

After reading the posted article, and then re-reading again. And then dismissing the possibility that you posted a clever fake from The Onion or similar ... I think the purpose has zero to do with reparations & everything on earth to do with a desparate attempt by Keyes to swing at least a few black votes his way come November.

This may very well qualify as one of the most bizarre flip-flops I've ever seen in politics, in a race that already has more than its fair share of strangeness.

Presuming the article is accurate, and presuming Keyes wasn't suffering from temporary leave of his senses, he can take a long walk off a short pier AFAIC. He just ended any political future he might have had (which I don't believe was much anyway) with this rather pathetic stunt.

[Solecismic]

Given that the whole purpose of running Keyes was to supposedly motivate Republicans to go to the polls in Illinois to help boost their chances in the House races, I think he just shot himself in the foot within the party.

It's not as if he stood even a remote chance against Barack. Unless Barack left his wife to shack up with Jeri Ryan AND demanded reparations for historic prejudice against Hollywood Bimbettes.

[druez]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Presumably, 1) by wasting less money on failing educational programs - tracking students who would otherwise drop out and require more, long-term, in services and getting them valuable skills in schools that lean more toward vocational education (leaving smaller high schools with students more interested in going on to college), and 2) by getting companies to reinvest in urban areas, you reduce the need for other services.

I do not believe Native Americans should receive special benefits. I do not support special casinos, and will not go to one. We can not correct every injustice, starting and not ending with those done to my family. All we can do is aim for justice in the present and future.

The native amercians have their own land, basically governed by themselves. So, I don't think its a special casino its just their casino on their land.

[stevew]

If thus far the US government has discriminated against the Jews, Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, Italians, Germans, Native Americans, and French, who the hell are the racist motherfuckers in charge?

Goddamn anglo saxons.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I think he just shot himself in the foot within the party.

That's not a gunshot wound, that's an artillery shell.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by psychedelicate-girl

Well, if the employee does not have to pay any federal income tax, then the employer does not have to take out those taxes and keep up with them, so the employer is affected.

They would still have to take out S.S., state, and unemployment, so there would be little difference in the amount of bookkeeping.
Not enough to provide a real edge for the applicant.

[Glengoyne]

I haven't exactly given this much serious thought, but on the face ot it, this is the most reasonable approach to reparations I have ever heard of.

[stevew]

The fact that some are paying less, means that others will have to pay more. If you can figure out who has slave ancestry, it should also be rather easy to find out who had ancestors that owned slaves. Tax those motherfuckers, and leave us poor white folk out of the equation.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I haven't exactly given this much serious thought, but on the face ot it, this is the most reasonable approach to reparations I have ever heard of.

How about a free collage education to every black child.
It seams to me something like that would be win-win.

[Crapshoot]

The party hasnt exactly ever given a damn for Keynes- he's a token minority if there ever was one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Surtt

How about a free collage education to every black child.

I'm not sure instruction in an arts-and-crafts discipline is going to really satisfy anybody.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Surtt

How about a free collage education to every black child.
It seams to me something like that would be win-win.

I could support something like that. Its reasonable. But isnt that pretty much the way it is now already, with pell grants and affirmitive action?

[JeffNights]

Sorry, The native American is the most badly treated group...even Chris Rock says so.

Argue with that logic Beeootch!

[stkelly52]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

I am against reparations generally. I think the injury is too remote and speculative.

That said, I would admit that, based on my limited study of US history, the treament of african slaves in the United States is the greatest injustice perpetrated against any group in the history of the country. Nothing else is even close in my mind. This is not to say that other groups (native Americans, japanese americans imprisoned during world war II, etc.) did not suffer grevious injustices, but the treatment of African slaves is just the worst thing short of geonicide that I might have heard of.

Obviously you have a very limited study on US history, and the US's treatment of Indians. Genocide is a very good way to describe the treatment that they received. Tactics like "donating" small pox infected blankets to needy tribes in the winter are hideous and unimaginable to me.

[stkelly52]

My aunt got into geneology back when she was 16. Since then she has traced our herritage back to the 1600's. While I am mostly Irish, and 1/4 caucasian hispanic, one of my ancestors was a slave. That means I get out of paying taxes too!!! Woohoo...oh wait, I havn't had to pay any taxes in 8 years.

[cody8200]

Reparations are such a dumb idea. The reason being---the amount of time gone by. If reparations were made right after the Civil War then so be it, but 150 years later is ridiculous. The German government has paid reparations to Jews and I think it was a good move, but at least their atrocities occured only 60 years ago, not 150! Horowitz also does have a point, American blacks are the richest and freest blacks in the world. While slavery was a travesty, reparations would never make up for something that physically did not occur to anyone living today.

[cody8200]

dola- when I said reparations are such a dumb idea...I meant specifically in the case of American blacks.

[cody8200]

Judicial Clerk, to read up on a bit of Indian misfortune try seraching on google for the "Trail of Tears". You should get quite a bit of good information about atrocity.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by stkelly52

Tactics like "donating" small pox infected blankets to needy tribes in the winter are hideous and unimaginable to me.

Biological warfare. I dare say we may have used that kind of tactic to our benefit in more ways than someone like Hussein ever did.

[Tekneek]

[sarcasm]No reparations. Just return everyone to the descendents of the slave dealers who sold their ancestors originally.[/sarcasm]

[Noop]

Originally Posted by cody8200

Reparations are such a dumb idea. The reason being---the amount of time gone by. If reparations were made right after the Civil War then so be it, but 150 years later is ridiculous. The German government has paid reparations to Jews and I think it was a good move, but at least their atrocities occured only 60 years ago, not 150! Horowitz also does have a point, American blacks are the richest and freest blacks in the world. While slavery was a travesty, reparations would never make up for something that physically did not occur to anyone living today.

Excuse me? Most of the Germans alive today didnt have anything to do with what happen to the Jews and they still pay. Richest blacks in the world you have got to love that statement compared to me your rich, compare to a homeless guy you are rich, compared to Donald Trump your poor. So if the Jews get a land given to them why not the people who have had crimes commited against them? Don't say Africa because most blacks when they were brought up lost their history. I find your view flawed and null invoid... while I respect your right to say your opinion I disagree with you.

[Easy Mac]

yeah, no crimes have been committed against Jews. ANd its not like Germany cut out part of their land to give something to the Jews. There was already Israel, it just wasn't a nation. Its not like someone said... hey you're disadvantaged, lets carve you a fresh place to live... here's Jewville, that will stick it to the Germans.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

yeah, no crimes have been committed against Jews. ANd its not like Germany cut out part of their land to give something to the Jews. There was already Israel, it just wasn't a nation. Its not like someone said... hey you're disadvantaged, lets carve you a fresh place to live... here's Jewville, that will stick it to the Germans.

They gave them the land. Before they got the land illegally and unnaturally they didn't have much problems in the middle east.( If I am wrong please point me in the direction of problems in the middle with the Jews before they were given a state) I didn't say no crime where committed against the Jews I am saying since America was in the giving mood why not create a state for those she raped on the way to being a Superpower.

[Easy Mac]

So, since no lands were legally given to blacks, they're just squatting in Africa then... good to know. Who cares if thats where they're from, because their using it unnaturally... thank God for apartheid so it could help fix that one... how do you roll eyes in quick replies?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So, since no lands were legally given to blacks, they're just squatting in Africa then... good to know. Who cares if thats where they're from, because their using it unnaturally... thank God for apartheid so it could help fix that one... how do you roll eyes in quick replies?

Nice to see your colors.