July console sales numbers, Volume 2........

[Fidatelo]

I don't believe MizzouBBF is a paid schill, only because he was equally 1-sided and oblivious to logic in his quest to have the Penguins relocated to KC.

I do agree that he has made discussing the console war intolerable here though. I now only skim his posts for non-biased info (like new GH3 tracks), and I completely ignore any post that quotes one of his posts (as it is simply a pointless logic-based retort that will be responded to with another ridiculous "read what I wrote, that's not really what I'm saying even though it is totally what I'm saying and I'll say it again in different words" post.

[Fidatelo]

Dola

I will credit MizzouBBF with introducing me to the Bill Harris blog though, that got added to my Google Reader and has some interesting moments.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Seriously?

Well, thanks for the advice, but I can use whatever I want in my buying decisions. One of my main turn-offs toward Sony is their marketing strategy - which up until this point has included lies, lies, and more lies from official Sony executives, fake blogs, offensive YouTube videos, dead goat carcasses, and I suspect, paid messageboard fanbois.

My continued loss of respect for Sony has definitely contributed to my decision-making process.

Once again, your bias shows through in this post despite claiming to be unbiased. You're more than happy to point out Sony's screw-ups (which I totally agree with), yet the fact that Microsoft totally lied (and still does to some degree to this day) that they have a major quality issue with most of their consoles is just as bad of a situation, if not worse. Sony's biggest failing is their executive's mouths. Microsoft kept their mouths shut knowing that they sold millions of customers a product that was inherently flawed.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I don't believe MizzouBBF is a paid schill, only because he was equally 1-sided and oblivious to logic in his quest to have the Penguins relocated to KC.

You forgot about Nashville as well.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Once again, your bias shows through in this post despite claiming to be unbiased. You're more than happy to point out Sony's screw-ups (which I totally agree with), yet the fact that Microsoft totally lied (and still does to some degree to this day) that they have a major quality issue with most of their consoles is just as bad of a situation, if not worse. Sony's biggest failing is their executive's mouths. Microsoft kept their mouths shut knowing that they sold millions of customers a product that was inherently flawed.

"Lied" and "kept their mouths shut" are two different things. I'm sure you'll be able to go dig up something where MS wasn't truthful, but my perception is that Sony executives have been lying through their teeth, whereas MS executives are mostly keeping quiet.

The quality issue is huge, and it really does suck that so many people are having problems with their consoles. MS's silence and non-denials speak volumes, but I don't recall nearly as many times they have been caught lying as Sony has.

And by the way, you calling me biased is pretty funny.

I'm not biased toward one or the other. I don't know why anyone would be, unless Bill Gates killed your dog or something. I really am trying to figure out which one is best for me. Surprisingly, I'm finding that the PS3 would be the better value for me. Just too bad it doesn't have any great games out for it.

[KWhit]

So here's where I am on my thinking on which to buy:

PS3:
Overall, the pros here are the built in BluRay player (which it seems is more likely to win this format war if there is a real winner), built in wireless, and a more powerful processor.

Drawbacks
Not very many games out right now and the pipeline doesn't look quite as strong as the 360's.


XBox 360 (Pro version):
Lots of current games interest me (Bioshock, Dead Rising, Gears of War, Crackdown, NCAA 2007). And the pipeline looks pretty good, especially with Halo coming up.

Drawbacks
I hate having to buy a separate wireless adapter. And that by itself bumps the price up to around $430. That's only $70 less than a 60 gig PS3. So for that $70 I can get a much bigger hard drive and a BluRay player. And if I add a Live membership, that's almost a wash. Oh yeah, and it could die on me with the RROD. At least the warranty is pretty good on this now.



For what I want, it seems that clearly the PS3 is a "cheaper" option now, but I worry about the game selection which is what I would be getting it for. Hmmm.... Difficult decision. Anything I'm missing?

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by KWhit

So here's where I am on my thinking on which to buy:

PS3:
Overall, the pros here are the built in BluRay player (which it seems is more likely to win this format war if there is a real winner), built in wireless, and a more powerful processor.

Drawbacks
Not very many games out right now and the pipeline doesn't look quite as strong as the 360's.


XBox 360 (Pro version):
Lots of current games interest me (Bioshock, Dead Rising, Gears of War, Crackdown, NCAA 2007). And the pipeline looks pretty good, especially with Halo coming up.

Drawbacks
I hate having to buy a separate wireless adapter. And that by itself bumps the price up to around $430. That's only $70 less than a 60 gig PS3. So for that $70 I can get a much bigger hard drive and a BluRay player. And if I add a Live membership, that's almost a wash. Oh yeah, and it could die on me with the RROD. At least the warranty is pretty good on this now.



For what I want, it seems that clearly the PS3 is a "cheaper" option now, but I worry about the game selection which is what I would be getting it for. Hmmm.... Difficult decision. Anything I'm missing?

One other thing, aside from the RROD you already mentioned (and which is why I'd wait til the holiday sesaon to buy a 360 if that's what I were to buy...), if you plan on doing much downloadable content (I'm talking games, movies/tv shows, etc, i.e. taking advantage of what MS already offers and what Sony is saying they're going to offer), the 360 has the added drawback that have you have to buy a special 360-specific hard drive if you run out of room on the 20 gigs you start with...and being Microsoft, they rape you for it.

PS3's you can add on any peripherals just like you would for a computer (more or less), so it's easier to "upgrade."

Also, most of the PS2 games (I want to say all, but I'm not sure) are currently backwards compatible via hardware in the PS3, so if you don't already have a PS2, and you want to play PS2 games, you're in luck (and there are a PLETHORA of fantastic games for the PS2).

/tk

[terpkristin]

Dola,

Forgot to add some stuff.

1. It depends what kinds of games you want to play/if you want any console exclusives, too. For example, Madden 08 is 60 fps on the 360, only 30 fps on the PS3. However, it's being reported that FIFA 08 is going to be 60 fps on both (which leads me to think that the 09 iterations will be 60 fps on both, too). So if you really want good Madden, then maybe the 360 is for you. Or if you want BioShock or Halo, then a 360 is the way to, but if you want Haze or some of the other PS3 exclusives, then that's that...

2. The current PS3's are the ones "guaranteed" to have the hardware backwards compatability. There is a lot of speculation that the next issuance of the PS3 will have that remove, and backwards compatability will be software based, like it is currently on the 360. So if playing PS2 games is important to you, it's worth keeping that in mind...

3. Just for reference, I do consider myself to be more of a Sony fangirl than a Microsoft fangirl. I currently have a PS2, 360 (with problems), DS, and PSP. I got the 360 mostly for some of the exclusives (Halo being the biggest). I haven't picked up a PS3 yet but I plan on it, especially since there will be a way to download on the PS3 and transfer to the PSP. I haven't decided which system I'll buy Oblivion for, other than that I know I won't get it on the PC.

/tk

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by KWhit

For what I want, it seems that clearly the PS3 is a "cheaper" option now, but I worry about the game selection which is what I would be getting it for. Hmmm.... Difficult decision. Anything I'm missing?

I have a frustratingly amount of freeze ups with the 360, to the point that I returned NCAA08 because basically every other game or so would freeze the system... It seems mostly EA games, with only an ocassional one with some other graphic intense games. I've always kept the system in a well ventilated area including at one point pretty close to a fan with no luck.

I know some have used and recommended the intercooler for it, but I've also read many negative things about it such as some people having the intercooler literally melt onto their system, and the fact that one of the versions draws power from the main system. It's also not a supported accesorry by Microsoft (or whatever they call it). It's still been something I've been tempted to try just because having some games (like NCAA) unplayable is frustrating but that's also an additional 20 bucks and the potential damage it could do to the system.

I currently don't own a PS3 but I figure I'll just wait til I do then try playing the games I cannot currently play on my 360 on the PS3. So far the experiences with the 360 for me and other people I know has been very YMMV which is disappointing, some people have no troubles at all, others have a paperweight or something inbetween (like me).

[Eaglesfan27]

FWIW, I've had the intercooler for well over a year and it hasn't melted onto my system or done any harm. I still have never had a freeze up (even with a 8 hour session of Bioshock yesterday which is graphic intensive) and I think the intercooler is helping my cause.

[SackAttack]

Eagles, my only issue with the intercooler is the fact that it draws its power from the Xbox power supply. That means either the system isn't getting all the power it needs for the stuff on board (including the system fans), or that the power brick is being drawn upon for additional power, which increases the risk of the brick overheating...and that overheating is just as likely to cause a freeze-up as the system itself doing so.

[spleen1015]

I've had the intercooler for about 15 months and haven't had a single lock up or any issues.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

FWIW, I've had the intercooler for well over a year and it hasn't melted onto my system or done any harm. I still have never had a freeze up (even with a 8 hour session of Bioshock yesterday which is graphic intensive) and I think the intercooler is helping my cause.

And that's why when I first started having problems with it I had thought about buying one cause I had read here that others had their issues addressed with it but then I read the amazon.com user reviews and I became a bit more reluctant, again it seems YMMV.

[sabotai]

I don't have the intercooler and haven't had any issueas. I keep the 360 in an open area, but I do sometimes feel the heat coming off of it so if you have it an area with limited space, it'll probably be a problem. It's also kind of loud. I never noticed it because my PC was louder, but I just got a new PC that is really quiet and now I really notice the 360 when it's on.

[MikeVic]

A friend got a 360 for Bioshock last week, and bought a couple of original XBox games to play too. Fable and the Street Fighter collection. Fable ran piss-poor. There was slow-down, and it just ran weird and choppy. Street Fighter was more pixelated than it should have been.

I really just want a next-gen console for Rock Band, and considering I'd have to pay for XBox Live and buy a wireless adapter thing... the PS3 as an option has crept back up again. The 360 has some other games I want to play, but I'd also want to play original XBox and PS2 games that I never got the chance to play. If the 360 can't emulate games very well, that's a big blow to me.

Anyone know if most games run like Fable?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Anyone know if most games run like Fable?

The only 2 original XBox games I've played on the 360 have been Forza 1 and Jade Empire. Both of them ran fine. I was thinking of grabbing Fable: The Lost Chapters, too (only $9 on Amazon). I loved the game and have been itching to play it again (traded in the original awhile back) Guess I'll take that off my wish list and just wait for the sequel to get done.

[KWhit]

Can somebody remind me what the big confirmed exclusives for each that are going to be released in the next 6 months?

[SackAttack]

Confirmed exclusives that have been announced for each system:

Xbox 360: Blue Dragon, Halo 3, Eternal Sonata, Mass Effect, Ace Combat 6, Project Gotham Racing 4, Too Human, Alan Wake, Lost Odyssey, Splinter Cell: Conviction

PS3: Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Folklore, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Heavenly Sword, Final Fantasy XIII (although who knows when it will land), MGS4, Tekken 6, SingStar

I didn't list Haze for PS3, even though I'm pretty sure it's an exclusive, because EBGames still says it's coming out for 360. Too Human and Alan Wake are *supposed* to be coming in the specified timeframe, but we'll see what we see.

I don't expect them to hit in the next six months either, but I'm listing FFXI and MGS4 just because Mizzou would flay me if I left them off the list.

[KWhit]

Cool. Thanks.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

A friend got a 360 for Bioshock last week, and bought a couple of original XBox games to play too. Fable and the Street Fighter collection. Fable ran piss-poor. There was slow-down, and it just ran weird and choppy. Street Fighter was more pixelated than it should have been.

I really just want a next-gen console for Rock Band, and considering I'd have to pay for XBox Live and buy a wireless adapter thing... the PS3 as an option has crept back up again. The 360 has some other games I want to play, but I'd also want to play original XBox and PS2 games that I never got the chance to play. If the 360 can't emulate games very well, that's a big blow to me.

Anyone know if most games run like Fable?

There is a list on microsoft's website of which games are Backwards Compatible. Fable is backwards compatible and runs very well on our 360. It's one of my wife's regular games when she gets on the 360.

Edited to add: Ninja Gaiden Black and Winning Eleven 9 both run well for me in BC mode as well. Those are the only BC games that I really play.

[Fidatelo]

Why is Rockband not coming out for the Wii? Does anyone know if there are plans to release it a few months later or something?

It seems to me that games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero shouldn't really need any of the extra graphics horsepower offered by the 360/PS3 to be just as enjoyable.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Why is Rockband not coming out for the Wii? Does anyone know if there are plans to release it a few months later or something?

I've read that this is indeed the case. Not sure when though.

[SackAttack]

Probably a twofold thing.

1) Rock Band in bundle form is going to be close to as much as the Wii itself. That's going to be a tougher sell when a significant portion of the Wii audience is still new to games than to a pair of audiences used to spending bank on the hobby. Put another way - if you spent $600 on your machine, you're going to have less of a problem spending $200 on the game than if you spent $250 on the machine. It's just psychological.

2) Only one USB port, and that's in the back of the system. What gets it? The microphone or the drums? If I'm not mistaken, both the drums and the mic are going to be wired on the PS3 and Xbox 360, probably for timing-based reasons.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I've read that this is indeed the case. Not sure when though.

That would be awesome! The Rock Band track list seems to blow GH3 out of the water (never mind the other instruments, etc).

*crosses fingers*

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Probably a twofold thing.

1) Rock Band in bundle form is going to be close to as much as the Wii itself. That's going to be a tougher sell when a significant portion of the Wii audience is still new to games than to a pair of audiences used to spending bank on the hobby. Put another way - if you spent $600 on your machine, you're going to have less of a problem spending $200 on the game than if you spent $250 on the machine. It's just psychological.

2) Only one USB port, and that's in the back of the system. What gets it? The microphone or the drums? If I'm not mistaken, both the drums and the mic are going to be wired on the PS3 and Xbox 360, probably for timing-based reasons.

Your first point makes sense, but I'm confused on the second point. Couldn't a person just get a little USB hub (or even have one included in the rock band bundle)?

[sterlingice]

The big reason they mentioned, I think it was in Game Informer, is that there was no hard drive for downloadable content as that's going to be a huge part of the game. Tho I'm not sure why using the Wii's SD card would be that much different.

SI

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Your first point makes sense, but I'm confused on the second point. Couldn't a person just get a little USB hub (or even have one included in the rock band bundle)?

The USB port until recently didn't even work with keyboards. I don't know what kind of utility it has at this point in time for actual controllers.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The big reason they mentioned, I think it was in Game Informer, is that there was no hard drive for downloadable content as that's going to be a huge part of the game. Tho I'm not sure why using the Wii's SD card would be that much different.

SI

Wii won't load any game-related stuff off the SD card right now. Game saves, VC games, etc. I really wish they'd change that at least for VC games.

[Big Fo]

Yeah, Nintendo has to do something about the storage at some point. Neo geo games are due on the VC soon, WiiWare games in 2008, people are going to need more space.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

2) Only one USB port

I would imagine it is possible to use the gamecube memory card slots for a microphone or something. That's what you do for Mario Party 7 and it works fine. Making it work in Wii mode might be a trick, but Id imagine they could pull it off if they wanted.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

I would imagine it is possible to use the gamecube memory card slots for a microphone or something. That's what you do for Mario Party 7 and it works fine. Making it work in Wii mode might be a trick, but Id imagine they could pull it off if they wanted.

Well, the other thing I can think of is, how does Boogie's microphone work? Does it plug into the Wiimote the way the Classic Controller and other attachments do? That would help some for the mic, and then all you're dealing with is the drums.

[MJ4H]

Yeah I forgot about that. Im fairly certain that either will be done or has been done.

[MikeVic]

I thought the Wii-mote was revealed to have a microphone in it? The space with the speaker is really a two-way instrument...?

[Crapshoot]

Since these seems to be a good place to ask - anyone heard anything about KOTOR 3 (Sack?) KOTOR ranks up there with Civ2 and FM amongst my favorite games of all time, and the announcement of a KOTOR 3 would almost certainly tip me in favor of buying an XBOX 360 (given the Mass Effect is likely to be on that as well).

[SackAttack]

I don't know.

BioWare lately has had this thing about doing great RPGs and then having Obsidian come in to do the sequel. I'd like to see BioWare come back for KOTOR 3, but as they're busy on Mass Effect, they may not have any interest.

I'm not sure I'd have any interest in a 3rd KOTOR if Obsidian lets LucasArts push them around like they did 2-3 years ago, for that matter.

[Eaglesfan27]

There are rumors that KOTOR 3 is being developed and will be announced after Mass Effect, but they don't make sense to me. I can see why they wouldn't want to release them too close to each other, but the idea that they would hold off announcing it doesn't make sense to me. However, you can find links to the rumors by simply googling KOTOR 3 and checking out the first few links.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Surprisingly, I'm finding that the PS3 would be the better value for me. Just too bad it doesn't have any great games out for it.

I own a PS3 and Wii right now. I'm actually more peeved at the lack of quality games for the Wii than the PS3 right now. I see several games that I'm interested in for the PS3 in the next couple of months. For the Wii, I only saw one game (Brunswick Bowling) that I was interested in. Unfortunately, I heard from someone who has a review copy that it's pretty disappointing, which is EXTREMELY unfortunate. I was really looking forward to a career bowling game on the Wii. The Japanese baseball game will now likely be the game I look forward to at this point.

[spleen1015]

Has anyone picked up Stranglehold?

I played the demo over the weekend and liked it some. My son will really like it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI for the European posters that own a PS3......Lair and Folklore are both being offered pre-order for 15 pounds (normally 40 pounds). It has been confirmed that it is not a price mistake.

Lair
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Lair-PS...141703&sr=1-11

Folklore
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Folklor...141703&sr=1-12

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Gamespot is reporting that Gran Turismo 5 Prologue will be a free download.

http://uk.gamespot.com/events/leipzi...tories;story;2

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FYI for the European posters that own a PS3......Lair and Folklore are both being offered pre-order for 15 pounds (normally 40 pounds). It has been confirmed that it is not a price mistake.

Lair
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Lair-PS...141703&sr=1-11

Folklore
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Folklor...141703&sr=1-12

That's simply horrific news. The quality of both games is probably pretty poor. When you start discounting games by over 50% before they've even been released, it's not a good thing. I was really looking forward to Lair. Ugh.

The Wii has been in a drought. No question about it. I'm hoping Tiger '08 is actually decent for it. I can't believe they screwed up the bowling title so badly.

Haven't come up with a list in the last few weeks, but I'd say that of the 10 games I'm looking forward to most, it'd probably be something like 6x 360, 3x PS3, 1x Wii. (Metroid) I'm hoping some sleeper hits come in and save the Wii, but I'm not sure how it'll play out over the next few months. The 360 has the highest likelihood of "surprise" hits simply because of how many games will be released for the system.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rumors abound that the Halo Wars demo will be out this week on XBL.

Also, the PSN version of Warhawk will be available at 12:00 AM EST tonight. It's $40. The DL version will take up around 800 MB of space on your HDD. Also, Super Puzzle Fighter Turbo HD remix will be available (wife was a big fan of this game).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

That's simply horrific news. The quality of both games is probably pretty poor. When you start discounting games by over 50% before they've even been released, it's not a good thing. I was really looking forward to Lair. Ugh.

Uh, considering they're the only retail outlet to do that, it might be just a bit premature to jump off the bridge. I'm still not totally sure that someone didn't f-up some pricing here. But someone said that they got an e-mail saying that price is legit, so who knows. I just find it amusing that a price break by one site suddenly means the sky is falling.

I'd fall over backwards to get either of those games at that price. It would certainly seem as though this price drop is going to be awfully good PR for these two games for Sony. The pre-orders on these two games have gone through the roof. These two games are going to have a big release number in Europe solely because of this deal.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Uh, considering they're the only retail outlet to do that, it might be just a bit premature to jump off the bridge. I'm still not totally sure that someone didn't f-up some pricing here. But someone said that they got an e-mail saying that price is legit, so who knows. I just find it amusing that a price break by one site suddenly means the sky is falling.

I'd fall over backwards to get either of those games at that price. It would certainly seem as though this price drop is going to be awfully good PR for these two games for Sony. The pre-orders on these two games have gone through the roof. These two games are going to have a big release number in Europe solely because of this deal.

Look Mizzou, no retailer willingly reduces the price of a game that is expected to sell like hotcakes. Much less by over 50%. Combined with the last minute delay of Lair and you have all the signs of a major letdown.

I'm dissapointed in this as Lair was a game I was hoping would be good. I hope I'm wrong and it's as good as Bioshock. But my guess is the game is going to be a major league dissapointment based on the things that have come out so far.

Would I buy the game at that cost? Probably. There has to be some amount of fun in flying a dragon around and setting fire to villages. But this was a game that was pointed at as being better than that. It had some solid buzz around it and nothing points to the game living up to any of the buzz.

Go ahead and tell me I'm an idiot or a PS3 hater or whatever the hell you want. I WANT this game to be great. I just don't like what I'm seeing right now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Look Mizzou, no retailer willingly reduces the price of a game that is expected to sell like hotcakes. Much less by over 50%. Combined with the last minute delay of Lair and you have all the signs of a major letdown.

I'm dissapointed in this as Lair was a game I was hoping would be good. I hope I'm wrong and it's as good as Bioshock. But my guess is the game is going to be a major league dissapointment based on the things that have come out so far.

Would I buy the game at that cost? Probably. There has to be some amount of fun in flying a dragon around and setting fire to villages. But this was a game that was pointed at as being better than that. It had some solid buzz around it and nothing points to the game living up to any of the buzz.

I'm simply stating that it's a bit overboard to jump on a game that hasn't even been reviewed yet because one overseas retailer dropped the price. It's just as nutty for me to make a statement that because the game is selling for $60 every other place except Amazon UK that it must be a great game because every retailer is charging full price.

I'm not guaranteeing anything on what the final product will be like as no one even has a copy of the final build at this point. I'm just saying that a price drop by one retailer before a game is released is no indication of a game's quality. If this price drop occurred a week or two after release, I would agree wholeheartedly that it was a bad sign. In this case, it's pretty premature to make any assumptions.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is a pretty complicated article that I thought the resident developers may be able to assist in translating. My general understanding is that it highlights the tricks that 360 and PS3 developers use to make sub-HD level games look HD......

http://gamers-creed.com/?p=423

Zenji Nishikawa has uploaded the latest issue of his article series about 3D game technologies. The subject of this article is the concern about sub-HD rendering in the next-gen consoles. It also contains anonymous developers’ quotes, all of which has been translated by One.


* The RAM bandwidth of Xbox 360 GPU is almost equal to RADEON X1600 XT and shared with CPU by UMA.
* Without the eDRAM pixel processor doing 4xMSAA, the fillrate of the GPU core itself is 4 billion texel/sec and almost equal to GeForce 7600 GT.
* While the Xbox 360 has a 3.5 times broader bandwidth than the original Xbox, 720p pixels require a 3 times broader memory bandwidth. It leaves only 0.5 times headroom which is insufficient for multiple texture lookups by complex shaders.
* eDRAM is implemented to mitigate the impact of the low memory bandwidth. But FP10 + 2xMSAA requires Predicated Tiling.
* Tile rendering has many performance demerits.
o In games with many chracters like N3 the cost of overlapped geometry grows large unless LOD is implemented.
o Lens effect, refraction, HDR effects such as bloom and glare, and other frame buffer filtering cause overlapped drawing near tile boundaries.
o Objects that cross boundaries can’t use the cache efficiently.
o CPU L2 cache locking is practically unusable.
* Since textures are stored in the shared 512MB RAM, regardless of the eDRAM size or use of tile rendering, texture lookup consumes the shared memory bandwidth. Normal mapping and shadow mapping require many texture lookups.
* So the last resort is to use Display Controller to upscale the image without using tile rendering, for example rendering FP10-32bit / 960*540 / 2xMSAA / 32bit Z (8MB).

Developer A: Even 2xMSAA is not required by Microsoft anymore.

Developer B: FP10-32bit / 880×720 / 32bit Z / 2xMSAA (9.9MB) rendered to look right when upscaled to 16:9 is also possible.

Developer C: You can render it in a certain low-res then to display it you can create a 720p frame by your own shader. In converting the original low-res frame into a 720p frame by the shader you can do color dithering, which may result in smooth color expression or alleviation of the resolution deficiency in FP10.

Developer D: At any rate I want to reduce jaggies. Since the eDRAM pixel processor is penalty-free upto 4xMSAA, it will be interesting if it’s fully exploited. Though it becomes 640×480 with 4xMSAA and FP10-32bit if it’s not tile-rendered, aliasing-free images will be totally different from what we have seen in older games.

Developer E: If you think HDR rendering as a premise, PS3 is worse than Xbox 360.
Since PS3 doesn’t support FP10-32bit buffer, if FP16-64bit HDR is used it requires twice the bandwidth of Xbox 360 but PS3 doesn’t have eDRAM like Xbox 360 to mitigate the impact. It’s possible that pseudo-HDR employed in Xbox and DX8 that use a conventional 32bit buffer (8bit int per ARGB) is often used in PS3. Besides the display controller may be used to upscale sub-HD images to a HD resolution.

Developer F: As for resolution I think if it’s modest it’s OK. Since RSX in the PS3 is a shader monster, adding more information to a pixel by executing ultra-advanced shader and then antialiasing it completely must make it look more real. I’d like to give priority to the reality charged in one pixel rather than to HD resolution.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm simply stating that it's a bit overboard to jump on a game that hasn't even been reviewed yet because one overseas retailer dropped the price. It's just as nutty for me to make a statement that because the game is selling for $60 every other place except Amazon UK that it must be a great game because every retailer is charging full price.

I'm not guaranteeing anything on what the final product will be like as no one even has a copy of the final build at this point. I'm just saying that a price drop by one retailer before a game is released is no indication of a game's quality. If this price drop occurred a week or two after release, I would agree wholeheartedly that it was a bad sign. In this case, it's pretty premature to make any assumptions.

Guess we have differing views. Amazon isn't some small, hole in the wall mom and pop. I can't see them lowering the price on a game before the release if there wasn't some bad indicators out there. If it were a surefire hit with a ton of positive buzz, they'd take the full price on the game and get as much as they could for it.

What it smells like to me is a bomb of a game and they are trying to get as many sales as they can as quickly as they can.

We'll see soon enough which one of us is right. If you are, I'll be the happy owner of the game and will be playing it most nights. If I am, we'll all have cheap coasters available to us within the next few weeks.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Guess we have differing views. Amazon isn't some small, hole in the wall mom and pop. I can't see them lowering the price on a game before the release if there wasn't some bad indicators out there. If it were a surefire hit with a ton of positive buzz, they'd take the full price on the game and get as much as they could for it.

What it smells like to me is a bomb of a game and they are trying to get as many sales as they can as quickly as they can.

We'll see soon enough which one of us is right. If you are, I'll be the happy owner of the game and will be playing it most nights. If I am, we'll all have cheap coasters available to us within the next few weeks.

The problem with that theory is that Folklore has been getting very good reviews and has sold well over in Japan. It doesn't fit the mold your describing at all, nor should it require a price drop to get good sales in Europe. If it were just Lair that had a price drop, I'd be more inclined to agree with your point.

FWIW......you aren't a gamer if you don't have a decent collection of cheap coasters.

[SackAttack]

My guess is that it has to do with the fact that Folklore is going to be more of a niche game. I was incredibly impressed with what I played at E3...but the fact is that it's not a system seller. £15 makes it a must-buy, IMO, and will probably do good things for its overall sales numbers...but I think that kind of niche status is why Amazon would discount it.

It certainly hasn't got anything to do with its quality (IMO).

Lair, on the other hand...I'm a skeptic.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by TroyF

That's simply horrific news. The quality of both games is probably pretty poor. When you start discounting games by over 50% before they've even been released, it's not a good thing. I was really looking forward to Lair. Ugh.

The Wii has been in a drought. No question about it. I'm hoping Tiger '08 is actually decent for it. I can't believe they screwed up the bowling title so badly.

Haven't come up with a list in the last few weeks, but I'd say that of the 10 games I'm looking forward to most, it'd probably be something like 6x 360, 3x PS3, 1x Wii. (Metroid) I'm hoping some sleeper hits come in and save the Wii, but I'm not sure how it'll play out over the next few months. The 360 has the highest likelihood of "surprise" hits simply because of how many games will be released for the system.

You should really give Mario Strikers Charged a try if you haven't.