the note I put on people's mailboxes today

[wade moore]

Yeah, this is a total a-hole maneuver to me. If I saw the person doing this a flaming bag of poop would be at the top of my mind.

[Izulde]

I'd have read it, snorted in disgust, then thrown it in the recycle bin.

[Hoosierbuckeye]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

it was on their mailbox, I am not selling anything but I guess it is loosely under the solicit definition, and am a resident subject to the same C&R so I think that legally It'll be alright. Luckily, in this community I was "right" to do what I did. Like most have stated, I doubt it will do any good though.

Then the only thing I'd like to caution is this;

USPS 508 recipients mailbox (etc.), section 3.1.3. below

3.1.3 Use for Mail

Except under 3.2.11, Newspaper Receptacle, the receptacles described in 3.1.1 may be used only for matter bearing postage. Other than as permitted by 3.2.10, Delivery of Unstamped Newspapers, or 3.2.11, no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail.


There are also guidelines on what homeowners should do if they see anyone 'tampering' (I know you weren't tampering, you were doing what you thought was right) and the Postal Inspectors are sensitive to identity theft issues as well as mailbombs, anthrax, etc.

I spent twelve years in the army, and one of my extra duties beyond helicopter maintenance was to supervise the mailroom and the mailroom clerk. I had to know the mail regulations forwards and backwards. (I was the only NCO who's IQ qualified for Mensa, and thereby could pass the security clearance for the USPS as a supervisor of the unit mailroom. . brag brag brag).

just be careful, should you piss off a neighbor who doesn't water their lawn, they'll get you with that flyer and your method of delivery.

[Joe]

I would probably have punched you in the face.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Hoosierbuckeye

Then the only thing I'd like to caution is this;

USPS 508 recipients mailbox (etc.), section 3.1.3. below

3.1.3 Use for Mail

Except under 3.2.11, Newspaper Receptacle, the receptacles described in 3.1.1 may be used only for matter bearing postage. Other than as permitted by 3.2.10, Delivery of Unstamped Newspapers, or 3.2.11, no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail.


There are also guidelines on what homeowners should do if they see anyone 'tampering' (I know you weren't tampering, you were doing what you thought was right) and the Postal Inspectors are sensitive to identity theft issues as well as mailbombs, anthrax, etc.

I spent twelve years in the army, and one of my extra duties beyond helicopter maintenance was to supervise the mailroom and the mailroom clerk. I had to know the mail regulations forwards and backwards. (I was the only NCO who's IQ qualified for Mensa, and thereby could pass the security clearance for the USPS as a supervisor of the unit mailroom. . brag brag brag).

just be careful, should you piss off a neighbor who doesn't water their lawn, they'll get you with that flyer and your method of delivery.

It's not watering that is a big deal but there is one yard that literally is just dirt. Now keeping in mind they dont give a shit those are the people who wouldnt read this anyways. I'll take my chances with the Feds

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Joe

I would probably have punched you in the face.

the market is such that I would willingly take the punch in the face for the money that would follow it.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

the market is such that I would willingly take the punch in the face for the money that would follow it.

LOL

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

did it make a difference? not so far, some people even took it and left their cars in the street They want to completely blame the real estate bubble for their values dropping but if out of 100 potential buyers, 10 cross off this neighborhood because people left their portable basketball courts out, their trash cans out, and cars everywhere then the prices will drop exponentially further than they need to, to get houses sold. They'll be the first to yell at their neighbor but wont take care of their own community. Makes me so frustrated.

Well, aintcha the busybody!

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

Well, aintcha the busybody!

actually Im quite lazy. I take pride in it actually.

[st.cronin]

None of those things mentioned in the note were of even the slightest concern to me when I was shopping for a house, fwiw.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Look, the bottom line is that it comes off as too high and mighty. I'm better than you, this is the way I do it, and so should you.

Which sums up Flasch nicely.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by duckman

Which sums up Flasch nicely.

I havnt talked to one person yet who disagreed with anything in the note. The only thing is that people dont want to hear it. Im tired of people standing aside, all the while griping, but being unwilling to say or do anything about it. Im equal to everyone else and WISH more people would stand up and say what they believe in person or in a flyer. This could be applied to a ton of issues I think. When a person is talking on their cell phone during a movie for a long time and everyone just squirms in their seats unwilling to say or do anything about it. They'll bitch about it on the way home though.

Originally Posted by Duckman's signature

No Excuses. Just results.

Kind of appropriate for being one to stand up and do what is right and speaking one's mind.

[Fidatelo]

If I was your neighbor I'd be hoping someone would leave me a flyer with tips on how to keep douchebags off my property.

Oh I'm sorry, was that rude of me to say? You probably didn't want to hear that, but tough. I can't just keep it bottled up and bitch to my wife about you later.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

If I was your neighbor I'd be hoping someone would leave me a flyer with tips on how to keep douchebags off my property.

Oh I'm sorry, was that rude of me to say? You probably didn't want to hear that, but tough. I can't just keep it bottled up and bitch to my wife about you later.

Your entitled to keeping douches off your property, and your entitled to tell it to the douche. Doing nothing and bitching about it later, im done with.

[MrBug708]

I'm guessing this thread did have the same result and ending that was originally hoped for

[Flasch186]

well, it did enlighten me to one thing. I naively thought that perhaps it would make a difference but, from this thread, I realized that the people who couldnt give two shits about their home, the community, their value that they'll try to tap eventually, the kids in the community, etc. will not give two shits about this flyer. Some people will be pissed to hear it and some people will say Amen. I am not sorry I did it BUT I will not achieve the desired effect that I intended to have in making the community a better and safer place.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

making the community a better and safer place.

Keeping children out of the f'n street would be a good start.

[oliegirl]

I don't think any of us are saying you were wrong to want to better the community, it's just the method that you chose which could come across as rude or offensive. I think it's great you took the initiative, but I think trying to do something more "organized", ie: create a newsletter to distribute - maybe via email, and touch on each point in a different mail-out so it's not an all at once thing. Or create a community webpage and have a "how can I maintain/increase the value of my home" page on it. Something not quite so "in your face".

[miked]

Have you lived there for less than 5 years? I'm assuming this change didn't come about overnight so either a) you didn't look around the neighborhood enough before buying, or b) you falsely expected everyone to prescribe to your vision of a community. I'm not saying your opinions are wrong, they are common sense. But the last thing anyone wants is for people to tell them how they should live to improve the value of their homes. I could tell you in my neighborhood here in Atlanta, all that really matters is what's inside the house. Every neighborhood is going to have people that don't mow, don't water, don't keep their dogs leashed, etc. Just to different degrees.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

well, it did enlighten me to one thing. I naively thought that perhaps it would make a difference but, from this thread, I realized that the people who couldnt give two shits about their home, the community, their value that they'll try to tap eventually, the kids in the community, etc. will not give two shits about this flyer. Some people will be pissed to hear it and some people will say Amen. I am not sorry I did it BUT I will not achieve the desired effect that I intended to have in making the community a better and safer place.

A better community? Or a more expensive community? Your post was directed towards making property values go up, not so much making the community a better one

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

A better community? Or a more expensive community? Your post was directed towards making property values go up, not so much making the community a better one

I felt topics 3ish, 4 and 5 had nothing to do with values but safety for people and children. I guess it could eventually boil to values if we're known as a safe neighborhood but I didn't draw that correlation when i was typing it.

I see the points but I stand by my take that what I did was well intended.

to answer the question above, Ive lived here since the inception of the community and have sold the homes to 1/2 the homeowners and I can tell you that from the person who paid 190K to the ones who paid 416K they all wanted a nice family community to take advantage of the good schools nearby. It wasn't necessarily tops of the list for "affordable" housing in the area, marketed or known as more of a "move up" community (second home). My knowledge base of the community is good.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

to answer some questions:

- enforcement by the HOA and most HOA's is minimal. It is a Felony to apply a "false Lien" so most property managers weigh on the side of caution (because they can be sued personally) and do nothing.

Wow in Orange County failing to follow the HOA rules can get you foreclosed on. I've read too many stories about it here.

One question, did you say you put this message in the mailbox? Because if you did, I think you committed a federal offense...

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Wow in Orange County failing to follow the HOA rules can get you foreclosed on. I've read too many stories about it here.

One question, did you say you put this message in the mailbox? Because if you did, I think you committed a federal offense...

not in, pinched on the side of it. I knew not to put it inside of it.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

- The neighborhood is filled with children. Almost every home has at least 1.

Sorry to post again, but there is your problem. Get rid of the children and you solve the problem.

[Hoosierbuckeye]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

not in, pinched on the side of it. I knew not to put it inside of it.

Not to belabor a point about the mail receptacle, but. .
using any portion of a mailbox is a violation. . .quoted from my previous post

no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle.


Now, what I think would be a better move would be to familiarize yourself with the city ordinances governing home ownership and the responsibilties therein, i.e. mowing, weed and pest control, and then get to know the officials that handle these ordinances. If anyone were to let their lawn go and not mow, or not repair or replace shingles on a roof, or weed their garden, and by doing so violated the ordinances, then a simple phone call to that office with a complaint against that neighbor should be enough.

We have an ordinance control officer that patrols our neighborhoods and they'll issue warnings and citations for unkempt yards, roofs, and homes. The ordinance control officers have to protect the privacy of the person making the complaint, so you're protected from any recriminations or harassment. You first receive a warning and a sufficient time period to correct the problem, then if it's still not corrected, you face a daily fine until it is corrected.

It's okay to want to make your community better, admirable even. But, there are statutes in place already. I'd use them.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

it was anonymous but that wasn't a big deal to me as I was talking to some people while handing them out. I just didnt think about adding a name or anything like that. I completely stand behind every bit of it so if someone were to ask, I'd proudly say it was me....I guess I shouldve added my name. It may have held more or less weight I dunno, I didnt think about it.

I understand what you were trying to do here but you should have signed it. Anonymous letters just come off as threatening, yet cowardly at the same time. As a relatively new homeowner, I would have no problems having a neighbor come over with a friendly corrective to anything I may be doing wrong. I understand that living in a neighborhood does require a level of courtesy to my neighbors.

But, if I got an anonymous letter, I would not consider that courteous behavior from a neighbor. In fact, I would consider that douchebaggery of a pretty high order. It would be over the top to say that it would be at the level of a racist flier left anonymously in my mailbox, but it still does come off as still a little bit hostile and I would be angry just the same.

[Flasch186]

Hoosier - I really wanted to avoid liens and fines and stuff as I thought that that route is worse for a recipient then a simple flyer. It's weird that I view that as being more "douche" like than what I did. I think I'm wrong to feel that way since that is the "appropriate" avenue that is laid out but I do nonetheless.

Klingler - I certainly had no hostile intentions and I hope that the flyer isn't interpreted as such. I do however stand by the verbiage of the letter and, again, left the signature off with no intention of not attributing it to myself as I did it in broad daylight and talked to some homeowners while doing it, sometimes putting it directly in their hand. Oh well, if people want the opposite of what I said to happen than they can continue to go that route too sans the bitching about how the "neighborhood is going downhill" like I hear people say.

[SnDvls]

I think the only way you are going to get through to them is to complain to the HOA and have them fine them. It's sucks that you are the "ratting" neighbor, but it keeps your home value up and in reality theirs too.

You still won't change everyone, some people have $ to throw away or they know if they change it and then wait 30 days and do it again they'll get another "warning" but it will help. Sometimes you can even call the city about exessive weeds/grass and illegal street parking.

BTW I'd be in the Amen group and pissed that my neighbor still doesn't give a crap about the CC&Rs and I am totally against HOA's in general, but I do realize they serve a good purpose when they don't over step their bounds.

good luck

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Klingler - I certainly had no hostile intentions and I hope that the flyer isn't interpreted as such.

I know that you weren't being malicious--I was just pointing out that an anonymous note could be perceived as such.

[molson]

If I got this in my mailbox, I'd think the guy was insane, and probably spying on everyone in the neighborhood.

I can't imagine anyone could think this would change anyone's behavior, even .00001%. And if I was looking at a house in the neighborhood, and I happened to come across such a letter, I'd get the hell out of there as quickly as possible.

People aren't going to know you have it to EVERYONE - they're going to assume you're targeting them individually for something, and that's going to piss them off.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by molson

People aren't going to know you have it to EVERYONE - they're going to assume you're targeting them individually for something, and that's going to piss them off.

I dont know about that except for maybe the last couple to get theirs considering that every mailbox has this big white letter attached to the outside of it. Tough to think youre the only one to get one that way.

[Karlifornia]

I guess Flasch will just have to rely on himself in his hollow, transparent money grab.

Nice try pretending that you care about "the children". That gave me a good laugh. You're using scare tactics to coerce people into doing what you want. You're George W. Bush. Police that hypocrisy.

[Ragone]

Don't feel bad flasch, i got in a shouting match with our local home owner's association about people leaving their car's parked on the road (especially in the winter time, it creates alot of extra issues)

Come to find out 3 of the 5 board member's currently park their some of their cars on the road (they leak oil was the common excuse)

Those cars being in bad spots have nearly caused many people to hit mailboxs,kids,animals etc. I'm wondering myself if i have a legal recourse to get them moved (2 of which are parked 20 feet from a intersection)

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Ragone

Don't feel bad flasch, i got in a shouting match with our local home owner's association about people leaving their car's parked on the road (especially in the winter time, it creates alot of extra issues)

Come to find out 3 of the 5 board member's currently park their some of their cars on the road (they leak oil was the common excuse)

Those cars being in bad spots have nearly caused many people to hit mailboxs,kids,animals etc. I'm wondering myself if i have a legal recourse to get them moved (2 of which are parked 20 feet from a intersection)

thanks. From this thread I now have a firm grasp on the variety of reactions there'll be but it doesnt change that even those that think I went about it the wrong way agree with what was contained within....except Karlifornia. Unfortunately the flyer didnt come with a coupon for him to re-up his porno subscription he cut off in that other thread Karl, there is no hypocrisy to police with you...youre very consistent in almost all of your posts. I figured a scare tactic wouldve been threats of liens and fines. The harshest thing I inferred was the idea of speed bumps....not sure how frightening those are unless you drive a lowrider.

[Passacaglia]

You should have also told them to get better jobs and make more money.

[Flasch186]

I'm not a Republican.

[Schmidty]

I better put away my basketball unit. Big Hatcher is watching....

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Hoosierbuckeye

(I was the only NCO who's IQ qualified for Mensa, and thereby could pass the security clearance for the USPS as a supervisor of the unit mailroom. . brag brag brag)

I have 3 penises. My dick is like a shark's tooth: When I fuck too much, and my cock falls off, I have 2 others waiting to replace it.

So suck my cocks, tough guy.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Sorry to post again, but there is your problem. Get rid of the children and you solve the problem.

Maybe we can organize an experiment to see how many 5 year olds Flasch could take in a fight. Kill two birds with one stone by answering that burning question AND raising the property value in his neighborhood!

[Flasch186]

how big is the typical 5 year old?

EDIT - Update:

I drove around this morning with a camera to take some pictures for you guys and something strange had happened. There was dramatically fewer cars BUT I am under no illusion that I had anything to do with this. Based on this thread I have learned quite a bit about the variety of feelings that will come up and inevitably the lack of response it will get outside of Joe's punch in the face. Being an early holiday morning I thought perhaps there'd be more since many people dont have to work and school's closed but perhaps it's the opposite and more people are away to take advantage of the long weekend.

I did talk to one of the people I spoke to yesterday while handing it out and it looks like it spurned them on to call the HOA about a neighbor whose driveway is on a steep angle and therefore all of the carpet cleaning chemicals inside the van seep out of the back doors of the van all night and run down the gutter in front of their home. They described it as a rainbow of colors all night that goes down the gutter and into the lake behind their house, so that's good if I pushed them to do that since they said they've been worried about it for a long time due to their kids playing near it.

Most of the letters are gone from the boxes so they were picked up but worst of all....

it seems that there must've been an accident between a car parked on the road and another as there is a quite a bit of debris in this one spot where typically a car on the street would be parked. That sucks.



I was going to go clean it up but I think I want people to see it.

[Passacaglia]

Dude, you're so going to get blamed for that.

[Lathum]

Here are a couple of other things I think about it.

There is a possibility your neighbors may talk with about it each other in a negative way and you will be the target of their ridicule, animosity, etc...

Another bigger problem I see is that everytime someone is reprimanded by the association for a violation they are going to assume it was you. This could aactualy cause real problems for you.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Here are a couple of other things I think about it.

There is a possibility your neighbors may talk with about it each other in a negative way and you will be the target of their ridicule, animosity, etc...

Another bigger problem I see is that everytime someone is reprimanded by the association for a violation they are going to assume it was you. This could aactualy cause real problems for you.

I thought about that and decided that I was tired of not saying anything because I dont want to ruffle feathers. Again, I go back to my movie theatre situation as my thoughts on those sort of situations. I weighed those possibilities and decided to do what I thought was right at the risk of being the "jerk". I hold out some hope that perhaps because of my unofficial stature in the community aand that people tend to turn to me to vent and for answers regarding the community and the fact that the verbiage in the letter is apparently agreeable that it might have some intzy bintzy effect. Probably not but that was my initial intent so I'm going to stand by it.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Dude, you're so going to get blamed for that.

Flasch better watch out for one of those flaming bags of poop!

[rkmsuf]

I want someone to put a note in his mailbox that just says

"Thank you, Mr. Helper."

[Toddzilla]

My first impression - geez, what a douchebag. If you got something to say to me about my house/lawn, then be a man and tell me face to face.

After thinking - you got some balls there putting your neck out like that. Good on you for trying to help the 'hood, unfortunately most of the homeowners are going to stop at the first impression...

[Passacaglia]

Are you planning to sell your house? Or might people think that you're planning to sell your house? It's one thing if you want to 'help the community' and all that, but if you're planning to leave it (or even if people think you might be), they'll think you're coming from a much different angle.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Are you planning to sell your house? Or might people think that you're planning to sell your house? It's one thing if you want to 'help the community' and all that, but if you're planning to leave it (or even if people think you might be), they'll think you're coming from a much different angle.

they hope he is now!

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Are you planning to sell your house? Or might people think that you're planning to sell your house? It's one thing if you want to 'help the community' and all that, but if you're planning to leave it (or even if people think you might be), they'll think you're coming from a much different angle.

Actually it's worse: my understanding is he's the real-estate agent, so he's looking to make larger comissions. Classy.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

they hope he is now!

True dat.