Favre to Retire...

[gstelmack]

Yup, as was pointed out Coles came out of their private meeting and kept it quiet, while Favre blabbed it all over the place. This is supposed to fix the relationship how again?

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Kind of a nice role reversal where the WR is the team guy and the QB is the me-first egomaniac.

You mean Coles who left the Jets for a bigger payday while telling them he was going to stay, then whined his way out of Washington to be traded back to the Jets after 2 years, only to piss and moan about his contract once returning despite severely underpreforming?

TEAM ALL THE WAY!

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

You mean Coles who left the Jets for a bigger payday while telling them he was going to stay, then whined his way out of Washington to be traded back to the Jets after 2 years, only to piss and moan about his contract once returning despite severely underpreforming?

TEAM ALL THE WAY!

Haha, I didn't know his history. Maybe he's turned over a new leaf?

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Yup, as was pointed out Coles came out of their private meeting and kept it quiet, while Favre blabbed it all over the place. This is supposed to fix the relationship how again?

Coles is a hypocrite, he had no problem ditching Pennington when it meant extra $$ in his pocket. Infact, he played more a part in ruining Pennington by having his star WR leave while Chad was just beginning to develope as a good QB than Favre has by getting him off an awful team where he wouldn't even be the starter for the whole year.

It's business, just like what his decisions were. I'd suggest he gets over it quickly, he's no T.O, Ocho Cinco or Randy Moss. Favre had 3 receivers better than him on his former team.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Haha, I didn't know his history. Maybe he's turned over a new leaf?

I think a certain amount of ego comes with the position for alot of players. He doesn't seem like a terrible team guy, but he's not nearly as important as he likes to think he is.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Yes, Favre doesn't make the decisions for the Jets, but he has played the part of whiny malcontent in getting himself out of Green Bay, something he has criticized his own teammates of in the past (Javon Walker for one). I can understand where Coles is coming from in resenting Favre a bit (as well as the organization), and then who knows what was said when the two met? I can see Favre being a bit of an ass and Coles not appreciating it.

What Favre did is nothing like Javon Walker. Walker was holding out, for more money, something Favre has never done. Favre was actually trying to play for the Packers, when they didn't want him then yes he did what he had to do to play somewhere else. Walker simply wanted more money, he didn't care where it came from so the Packers traded him.

Then there is the comment I put in bold. You can see? So you are imagining the scenario between two guys who you actually have no idea of what they are really like, nor do you even know the actual problem between them? I can't argue with that kind of thinking.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Cringer

What Favre did is nothing like Javon Walker. Walker was holding out, for more money, something Favre has never done. Favre was actually trying to play for the Packers, when they didn't want him then yes he did what he had to do to play somewhere else. Walker simply wanted more money, he didn't care where it came from so the Packers traded him.

Then there is the comment I put in bold. You can see? So you are imagining the scenario between two guys who you actually have no idea of what they are really like, nor do you even know the actual problem between them? I can't argue with that kind of thinking.

Favre was trying to play for the Packers? I guess if you believe that, then sure, but I don't buy it for a second.

As for my other comment, I was trying to say that I can understand why Coles resented Favre in before the conversation, and I don't have to imagine any scenarios for that, I can simply go by what I know from what I've read. I can understand why someone might be a little bit hostile to Favre coming in. The "who knows what was said" part just makes me think that the conversation could have easily made things worse, but yes, at that point I'm speculating.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

On NFL Network right now they have Packers vs Bengals... Majkowski just got hurt & this Favre kid is coming into the game.

I didn't know that there were rumors of Majic Man for Marcus Allen... that would have been something...

[Cringer]

Thanks M GO BLUE, this rocks. I love seeing this game, all the old Packers I used to love so much, I am boring the hell out of my daughter telling her about them.

[Senator]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Miami's QB situation isn't much better. Maybe Quincy Carter can be the answer.

or Chad Hutchinson
or Drew Henson

[Cringer]

Brett Favre looking good in preseason.

I am liking tonight's game for the Jets because it shows that Favre is not going to be lost in a new system. I have laughed about idiots I hear on the radio who have only ever talked about the NFL and never been a part of it try to claim that Favre being in a new system after 16 years in Green Bay will make things difficult for him. Looks like handing off the ball and running routes are not too different in other systems, especially for a QB who has played for so long.

And no I am not saying Favre will be great this year based on two drives so far tonight, I am just saying I don't think he will fall flat on his face because he has to learn a new system. I do think he will be pretty good though, and this has never changed for me.

[JetsIn06]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Brett Favre looking good in preseason.

I am liking tonight's game for the Jets because it shows that Favre is not going to be lost in a new system. I have laughed about idiots I hear on the radio who have only ever talked about the NFL and never been a part of it try to claim that Favre being in a new system after 16 years in Green Bay will make things difficult for him. Looks like handing off the ball and running routes are not too different in other systems, especially for a QB who has played for so long.

And no I am not saying Favre will be great this year based on two drives so far tonight, I am just saying I don't think he will fall flat on his face because he has to learn a new system. I do think he will be pretty good though, and this has never changed for me.

He looked great. Seeing passes thrown like that is something I haven't seen as a Jets fan in a while.

[headtrauma]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Thanks M GO BLUE, this rocks. I love seeing this game, all the old Packers I used to love so much, I am boring the hell out of my daughter telling her about them.

You might want to skip the Lynn Dickey years.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Not that Beck being gone would be a bad thing, but Pennington is going to be the starting QB this year.

Yeah, terrible so far. As I stated before, all Pennington ever did was take the Jets to the playoffs a few times. So far this season he has a better rating and as many wins as Favre. Sigh.

[Kodos]

The Dolphins turnaround this season has been pretty impressive.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Kodos

The Dolphins turnaround this season has been pretty impressive.

They have a good chance to beat the best record ever of 9-7 in a season after being 1-15 the previous season.

[Senator]

Who cares - more Favre please.

[Arles]

It looks like we are back on this carousel again. Now, we read that some on the Jets don't want him back:

ESPN - Thomas Jones says Brett Favre's play warranted benching


As I said back in July, this was a big risk for Favre coming back on a different team:

Originally Posted by Arles on july 12

One thing Favre needs to understand is that he is not going to be worshiped by his new team. He won't have fans saying "well, those WRs weren't getting open" or "the line wasn't giving him time" or "the OC is just calling terrible plays".

He will face a fan base with no loyalty to him and no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. They will be paying him decent money to come in and win now and probably have given up a solid draft pick to land him. Favre needs to be real sure that's the situation he wants. Having high expectations, no loyalty, his own age, a new system, new WRs and an offense that was preparing to go to war with someone else 2 weeks ago is not the best fit for a 39-year old QB

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Arles

It looks like we are back on this carousel again. Now, we read that some on the Jets don't want him back:

ESPN - Thomas Jones says Brett Favre's play warranted benching


As I said back in July, this was a big risk for Favre coming back on a different team:

He has done a lot to not just tarnish his legacy, but almost smear it completely. Definitely should have stayed retired.

[Senator]

Just off the top of anyone's head. Has there been a documented case of a football player coming out of retirement (age retirement) and having success?

Wondering if there is any precedent.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

He has done a lot to not just tarnish his legacy, but almost smear it completely. Definitely should have stayed retired.

+1

Originally Posted by the article

A veteran Jets player, quoted anonymously by Newsday, described Favre as a "distant" teammate who, when at the Jets' practice facility, spent his down time away from teammates in an office specially designated for him.
"There was a lot of resentment in the room about him. He never socialized with us, never went to dinner with anyone," the player told Newsday.

sounds like a great teammate and leader...NOT

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Senator

Just off the top of anyone's head. Has there been a documented case of a football player coming out of retirement (age retirement) and having success?

Wondering if there is any precedent.

Top my head? Jordan's first retirement. Of course, he was really young.

[Senator]

football specifically, if there is one.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Senator

football specifically, if there is one.

Matt Zimmerman?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

It looks like we are back on this carousel again. Now, we read that some on the Jets don't want him back:

ESPN - Thomas Jones says Brett Favre's play warranted benching


As I said back in July, this was a big risk for Favre coming back on a different team:

Well how bad is it for him? He made the Pro Bowl and more than doubled his new team's win total. Plus Mangini was obviously the problem since he was the one fired. Brett Favre was just fine.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Senator

Just off the top of anyone's head. Has there been a documented case of a football player coming out of retirement (age retirement) and having success?

Trey Junkin sure as hell didn't.

[larrymcg421]

What's wrong with you people? Don't you know the only stat that matters is wins? It's all about wins, baby. Football rosters may have 46 players, but only one player counts and that's the QB. The performance of everyone else on the team is directly attributable to the QB's leadership.

Sammie Smith actually had great hands, but Marino didn't "lead" him to not fumble on the 1 yard line. Scott Norwood is a clutch kicker. Kelly just didn't "lead" him to make that FG. Meanwhile, Viniateri is actually the shittiest kicker in NFL history, but he was "led" by Tom Brady and Peyton Manning to make clutch kicks. And how about our boy Trent Dilfer. The Ravens defense has never been good enough when needed the most, except for when Trent Dilfer "led" them to the Superbowl. Without a true winner like Dilfer, Ray Lewis is just a random LB who can't win the Superbowl.

[Jas_lov]

Favre is a cancer and Green Bay knew that when they got rid of him. He's going to the hall of fame but nobody wants the guy anymore, and it's kind of sad to see how far he's fallen. Favre will probably get the point now and just retire for good. Should have listened to Ted Thompson and taken the $25 million to ride tractors all day. At least then he can be by himself.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

What's wrong with you people? Don't you know the only stat that matters is wins? It's all about wins, baby. Football rosters may have 46 players, but only one player counts and that's the QB. The performance of everyone else on the team is directly attributable to the QB's leadership.

Sammie Smith actually had great hands, but Marino didn't "lead" him to not fumble on the 1 yard line. Scott Norwood is a clutch kicker. Kelly just didn't "lead" him to make that FG. Meanwhile, Viniateri is actually the shittiest kicker in NFL history, but he was "led" by Tom Brady and Peyton Manning to make clutch kicks. And how about our boy Trent Dilfer. The Ravens defense has never been good enough when needed the most, except for when Trent Dilfer "led" them to the Superbowl. Without a true winner like Dilfer, Ray Lewis is just a random LB who can't win the Superbowl.

This is a good level but I know a few Packer fans who are actually this ignorant. They see commentators on ESPN say, "Brett Favre is Brett Favre and he's a winner" and they say the same things about Ben Rothlisberger, "All Big Ben does is win football games." But these two are vastly overrated and their teams won games this year in spite of the QB play.

Rodgers puts up one hell of a season, "but he only won 6 games" some people say. It was all his fault they won 6 games and the Jets collapse was the fault of the defense, wide receivers, and Mangini. These are the same people who think Jeter is better than A-Rod. I'm sick of these ignorant fans but I guess they'll never go away.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Well how bad is it for him? He made the Pro Bowl and more than doubled his new team's win total. Plus Mangini was obviously the problem since he was the one fired. Brett Favre was just fine.

I don't think it was really that bad of a play for the Jets to bring Favre in. Pennington had been injury prone and had pretty much a 1:1 TD to INT rating over the past several seasons, so taking the 2007-08 Favre minus whatever deterioration due to age, for a shot at improving the position in '08-'09 doesn't seem like too bad of a move prior to the season to me.

Adding Favre improved the Jets at QB and the team's record improved significantly. It sucks for them that he isn't/wasn't late '90s/early 00s Favre, but there is little indication that the Clemens and Pennington of the past few seasons would have been better.

[Swaggs]

Dola...

To simplify, at the beginning of the 2008-09 season, Favre was still one of the best 20-25 QBs in the league and the Jets were not one of the top 20-25 teams in the league at the QB position.

I would guess that many around the league would probably still consider him a top 25 QB in the league. The problem arises when fans, the media, and ESPN consider him a top 5 QB.

[EagleFan]

Eventually this thread could pass the MF thread.

[DaddyTorgo]

top 25? i guess the best to do then is to list the QB's who are worse than favre...

[DaddyTorgo]

worse than favre: thigpen, fitzpatrick in cincy, shaun hill, the revolving door for the browns, jamarcus russell, the revolving door in Detroit

Then again, you could argue that you should disqualify "revolving doors" because that indicates that they have no clear starter

his QB rating for the year was 21/32. But there were at least 3 guys under him that I'd take over him - Joe Flacco, Kerry Collins, Big Ben (ugh it pains me to say that).

Shaun Hill actually had a better QB rating than him.

[DaddyTorgo]

or to stat-geek it more - FO's QB breakdown

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

Favre ranks 27th (out of 41qb's who threw 100 passes this year) in their rankings of QB's in DVOA (value over an average QB)

[Arles]

I see the current GB QB is in their top 10.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I don't think it was really that bad of a play for the Jets to bring Favre in. Pennington had been injury prone and had pretty much a 1:1 TD to INT rating over the past several seasons, so taking the 2007-08 Favre minus whatever deterioration due to age, for a shot at improving the position in '08-'09 doesn't seem like too bad of a move prior to the season to me.

Adding Favre improved the Jets at QB and the team's record improved significantly. It sucks for them that he isn't/wasn't late '90s/early 00s Favre, but there is little indication that the Clemens and Pennington of the past few seasons would have been better.

I would argue that while they improved the physical gifts at the QB position, they hurt the team's offense overall.

[Jas_lov]

The Jets also improved the overall team didn't they? The team that Pennington had in 07 was different than the team Favre had in 08. I don't know all of what they added in the offseason but I know their defense was improved and Thomas Jones had a career year. I know they added Faneca on the o-line and Jenkins on the d-line.

The Jets also played 8 games vs the AFC West and NFC West, the 2 worst divisions in football. And Tom Brady only played 1/2 of a game the whole year!

So you can't just say, Well Favre improved the Jets significantly by himself and Pennington was trash. That obviously turned out not to be true.

[Mike Lowe]

Brett Favre is perhaps the most overrated QB, if not football player, in the history of the NFL; perhaps sports in general. The only thing bigger than his overly exaggerated statistics is his ego. Please retire and please go away.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Brett Favre is perhaps the most overrated QB, if not football player, in the history of the NFL; perhaps sports in general. The only thing bigger than his overly exaggerated statistics is his ego. Please retire and please go away.

+1

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Brett Favre is perhaps the most overrated QB, if not football player, in the history of the NFL; perhaps sports in general. .

Apparently you have never heard of Troy Aikman. Favre has had a rough 3-5 year stretch, but it's pretty hard to argue with what he did before that.

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Please retire and please go away.

Can't argue with that.

[DaddyTorgo]

aikman's career qb rating = 81.6
favre=85.4

[Senator]

3 rings, bitches.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

The Jets also improved the overall team didn't they?

They made significant upgrades in the defense, and Kris Jenkins was considered a key reason they won more games by stuffing the run so well. The tailoff at the end was the defense starting to wear down (starting to give up rushing yards in particular) and thus putting more pressure on Favre, who folded like a house of cards.

[jbergey22]

I wouldnt say the Favre situation was an absolute failure. Any other year they make the playoffs.

I also wouldnt agree with Troy Aikman being overated. A huge part of qb percentage is TD/Att and because the Cowboys had one of the best RB's in NFL history they chose to run in most of their TD's. A more fair stat to look at would be yd/att and Id guess he measures up with the all time greats in that category.

[Senator]

completion percentage

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I wouldnt say the Favre situation was an absolute failure. Any other year they make the playoffs.

As long as that year included 8 games against the weak West divisions and 2 against a Brady-less NE, I might agree. But, we won't be seeing that again anytime soon. So, any other year they face atleast 3 non-divisional teams with a pulse and don't get 8 games against the NFC/AFC trash, they don't make the playoffs either.

I also wouldnt agree with Troy Aikman being overated. A huge part of qb percentage is TD/Att and because the Cowboys had one of the best RB's in NFL history they chose to run in most of their TD's.

yeah, must have been tough to throw with 10 in the box all game because of their HOF RB and pro bowl OL, then look out and see two HOF receivers/TE. That was much less to work with than what the "privileged" other QBs of the era had like Marino, Elway and Favre.

[PackerFanatic]

Brett Favre instructs agent to tell New York Jets he intends to retire - ESPN

I'll believe it when he is no longer on the field.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I'll believe it when he is dead.

My thought process...

[Fighter of Foo]

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes back again so he can pad his interception record.