Official 2007-2008 College Basketball Thread

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by SuperGrover

Three things:

1. If you think Washington is on par with Missouri, Ga Tech and UVa the objective data I've put forth than this argument is over. How is a team with their pedigree better than the teams I've laid out? they aren't.

2. You said Stanford would "quite likely they would finish ahead of those teams in the Pac 10." i don't see how you can interpret any other than way than saying Stanford is better than the other #1 seed. Quite likely = probably. In this case, that means better. there's no other way to spin it.on

3. Stanford is two games behind UCLA with a tough game at USC remaining. they could easily finish three games back. Further, several of the games they won could've went either way (@ Arizona, @ Wash St., vs USC, v Ariz, v Wash). Only this game and the ASU game did they lose closely. UCLA, on the other hand, really only had three games come down to the wire (@ Arizona, vs, Stanford, and @ Oregon). Most other games they were in control of by the 5 minute mark.

Look, I'm done arguing with you because you are blinded by West Coast love. that's fine and dandy. As a UCLA fan, you should have some confidence in your team...to me they are clearly one of the three (maybe four if Louisville keeps playing like this) teams in the nation with KU and UNC. No one else in the conference is, but that is irrelevant.

Sorry you failed to convince me. Better luck next time. I thought you had a chance for a while there.

[Radii]

RPI has Stanford 17th. A buddy of mine has been talking up Sagarin and Pomeroy rankings as much more accurate rankings systems and much more accurate predictors of general postseason chances/success. They rank Stanford 11th and 12th, respectively. Plus, we know how much the committee loves non-conference quality wins and tough non-conference schedules. Stanford has neither, when put up against the resume of the other 1 seed contenders. Stanford gets a 3 before it gets a 1.

Subjectively, I don't think Stanford wins any other major conference in the country with the exception of the SEC, where I think Tennessee and Vandy are highly vulnerable.

Siena is listed as a tourney team now in the latest bracketology Stanford also appropriately IMO is listed as a 3 seed, and I think it would take winning the pac 10 tourney to bump them up to a 2. I don't think there is any reasonable scenario where they could jump to a 1.

Of course this is why college basketball is awesome. Stanford can still win 6 games like anyone else, etc.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

There was only one "easy out" in this conference in Oregon State. Unlike Kansas, UCLA doesn't have an Iowa State, Colorado AND Missouri nor does the Pac 10 feature any other teams besides OSU that lose by 40 like Texas Tech did--twice--in the past week or more. Unlike UNC, UCLA doesn't have four teams like GTech, BC, Virginia and NC State to beat up on. UNC loses two point guards, including Lawson, in ACC play and they can wing it. In the Pac 10, though, there is only one Oregon State. They have to fight tooth and nail to get a win against just about any other conference team (particularly on the road).

I don't know where SuperGrover's going, but this statement is clear homerism/West Coast bias .

RealtimeRPI ranks

Conf 1: 4/8/22/43/50/72/73/96/108/287
Conf 2: 2/6/28/30/58/67/76/98/100/114/120/129
Conf 3: 5/7/32/34/35/47/70/91/92/107/159/187

Conference 1=PAC 10, 2=ACC, 3=Big 12

Yes, the PAC-10 is the best conference right now, but putting Missouri or any of the 4 ACC teams on the level of Oregon St. is ludicrous. In fact NC State is ahead of Washingotn and .0004 behind Cal. Both conferences have the 2 big dogs, then the Big 12 actually takes the lead with 4 sub 50 teams vs. 3 in the Pac10 and 2 in the ACC. 58-76 you have 2 Pac-10, 3 ACC and 1 Big 12. Then the 91-129 range which shouldn't be tough for a top 10 team is 2 Pac-10, 5 ACC and 3 Big12. Finally you have 2 pretty poor teams in the Big 12 and one abysmal one in the Pac 10.

[MrBug708]

http://www.bruinzone.com/b12/messages/71278.shtml

Replay of the play

[Chief Rum]

Oh, no, sorry if that was the impression I gave. I was arguing for the Pac 10 being top to bottom the best in comparison to the other top leagues. But there is no arguing about Oregon State. They are simply awful, perhaps the worst Big Six team in the country. I was more arguing for the quality of the other nine, and also noting that, as bad as OSU is, they are only two games on the schedule.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Oh, no, sorry if that was the impression I gave. I was arguing for the Pac 10 being top to bottom the best in comparison to the other top leagues. But there is no arguing about Oregon State. They are simply awful, perhaps the worst Big Six team in the conference. I was more arguing for the quality of the other nine, and also noting that, as bad as OSU is, they are only two games on the schedule.

Yeah, but you're also implying Cal and Washington are significantly better than Missouri and the bottom 4 ACC schools, which they aren't by computer analysis.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Yeah, but you're also implying Cal and Washington are significantly better than Missouri and the bottom 4 ACC schools, which they aren't by computer analysis.

I never said they were significantly better. And in fact I already said I felt Washington was about on par with a lot of those teams. I do feel Cal is slightly better, based mostly on watching them play and knowing the talent they have on the roster.

One thing no one mentions, BTW, is that these other two conferences have 12 teams, not 10. So not only as you go down the list (1st place against 1st place; 2nd place against 2nd place, etc.) is there a slight numerical bias against the Pac 10, but these teams don't even all play every other team twice. Uneven schedules certainly can factor in here, too.

My main point has always been that the Pac-10 is the best top to bottom conference this year (not by leaps and bounds, but I believe they are), and that Stanford, for all its weak OOC schedule, has performed very well in that same said conference and were a blown refs call away from being right behind UCLA here, a team no one argues is substandard in any way.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

http://www.bruinzone.com/b12/messages/71278.shtml

Replay of the play

The majority of Bruin fans seem to disagree with their own point guard.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

The majority of Bruin fans seem to disagree with their own point guard.

Heh...and people think I'm a homer.

That call was pretty darn obvious(ly wrong).

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

The majority of Bruin fans seem to disagree with their own point guard.

Collison took back what he said at the press conference, once he saw the replay of the video

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Collison took back what he said at the press conference, once he saw the replay of the video

Wait a sec...what is Collison going to learn from the video replay that he doesn't already know? He was there!

[wade moore]

CAA Tourney started yesterday - I watched all 4 games live.

W&M led for about 4 minutes and never led again until a 25 foot shot put them ahead by 1 with 1.6 seconds left and we pull out the win!

Headed back to watch 4 more games today, should be a blast!

[miami_fan]

Big South Final is on ESPN2. Kenny George just looks uncomfortable. 7-7 360lbs

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Big South Final is on ESPN2. Kenny George just looks uncomfortable. 7-7 360lbs

I'm watching this game. The kid is a freak, I would love to see him in the tournament but it won't happen it looks lke

[Lathum]

If someone could actualy teach George to play basketball he would be dangerous

[rjolley]

He'd have to drop some weight as well. Bad thing about being that height and playing basketball is the stress and strain it puts on your knees. Being 360-380lbs won't help that at all.

Edit: His free throws and shooting touch are a lot better than Shaq's.

[timmynausea]

West Virginia hopefully locked up their spot in the tournament with their 11th Big East win today at the Garden over St. Johns. Joe Mazulla drove the length of the floor in the final 5.5 seconds, banking in a layup with 0.3 on the clock to send it to OT, where the Mountaineers finally put the Red Storm away.

6'8" forward Joe Alexander has been one of those guys always mentioned as "1st Round NBA athletic ability if he can ever put everything together." This past week he has put it together with 32 points and 10 rebounds in a loss at UConn, 32 more plus 6 boards in a win over Pitt, and 29 and 10 today. Can't wait to see what he can do in the Big East tournament and beyond.

[SuperGrover]

That WVU win was huge. Without it, they would've been in trouble.

Miami, UAB and St. Joe all crapped the bed today. Of the three, I think Miami is the only one still in, but they had better not lose next Friday when they play against NC State, BC or UVa.

USC handles Stanford easily. USC looks to be the second most dangerous tourney team from the Pac 10 in my opinion. Stanford looking at a 3-4 seed unless they run the table next week.

[Logan]

A shot over the backboard appears to win the game for UCLA. Unreal.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Logan

A shot over the backboard appears to win the game for UCLA. Unreal.

no, a no call from the refs gave them the win.

[Logan]

I love how CBS waited roughly 15 minutes to show that replay.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by SuperGrover

That WVU win was huge. Without it, they would've been in trouble.

Miami, UAB and St. Joe all crapped the bed today. Of the three, I think Miami is the only one still in, but they had better not lose next Friday when they play against NC State, BC or UVa.

USC handles Stanford easily. USC looks to be the second most dangerous tourney team from the Pac 10 in my opinion. Stanford looking at a 3-4 seed unless they run the table next week.

Stanford handled USC easily at Maples, what's your point?

[Scoobz0202]

So..

UCLA is catching a lot of officiating breaks lately, eh?

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Stanford handled USC easily at Maples, what's your point?

I thought his point was fairly clear. In his opinion, USC is the 2nd most dangerous team from the Pac-10 come tourney time. Personally, I agree with that, but Stanford is right up there.

Edit: A 6 point win isn't that easily handled by the way

[Arles]

Assuming ASU can beat Oregon State (which should be a given) and Arizona wins one of their next two (Oregon tonight or OSU in the 1st round of tourney), the Pac-10 should have 6 teams in UCLA, Stanford, USC, WSU, Arizona and ASU. Oregon has an outside chance, but they will need to make a run in the tourney.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And in one of those quirky bits of symmetry, the ACC women's tournament comes down to a Duke-UNC final tomorrow after Duke upset Maryland earlier today.

[miami_fan]

Let's get this out the way early.

Dicky V is going to blow the Dookies all game long.

Duke will get X number of calls throughout the game.

Am I missing anything?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

So..

UCLA is catching a lot of officiating breaks lately, eh?

It's rather refreshing

[Radii]

Its really, really nice seeing Carolina play some defense.

[Lathum]

Speedo Guy, nice

[Radii]

Solid first half. Lawson is nowhere near 100%, a few times he looked like he tried to go by someone but his body won't let him. He got to the basket a couple times though as well. But mainly this is the best I've seen UNC play defense all year I think. They left Paulus way too open a few times but all in all I'm pleased. Duke will make a run and this'll get real close but I'm happy so far.

[MrBug708]

Radii, Tyler isn't very good at passing out of the post is he?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Radii, Tyler isn't very good at passing out of the post is he?

Not at all. He's usually very quick and if the doubleteam isn't there *right* when the ball gets there he has the advantage. But, when the doubleteam gets there or he has a bad angle, he just doesn't kick the ball out well/often at all. He's so strong and has such good touch that he gets away with it a lot. But there are times where I just don't understand why he works SO hard to get his shot when he's being covered by 2 people and you know someone is open and if you kick it out quickly someone's going to get an open shot.

[Radii]

oh man Paulus going right by Lawson makes me sad.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by wade moore

CAA Tourney started yesterday - I watched all 4 games live.

W&M led for about 4 minutes and never led again until a 25 foot shot put them ahead by 1 with 1.6 seconds left and we pull out the win!

Headed back to watch 4 more games today, should be a blast!

Wow. We pull off the shocker in another down to the wire win 63-60 against ODU.

This is the first time W&M has won two conference games or played on Sunday in the conference tourney.

We play #1 VCU (the team that beat Duke in the tourney last year) tomorrow at 3pm.

[Radii]

Duke is really outhustling UNC early in the half. These offensive rebounds are sickening.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Radii

Not at all. He's usually very quick and if the doubleteam isn't there *right* when the ball gets there he has the advantage. But, when the doubleteam gets there or he has a bad angle, he just doesn't kick the ball out well/often at all. He's so strong and has such good touch that he gets away with it a lot. But there are times where I just don't understand why he works SO hard to get his shot when he's being covered by 2 people and you know someone is open and if you kick it out quickly someone's going to get an open shot.

Fair enough. Maybe I'm spoiled by Kevin Love now

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Fair enough. Maybe I'm spoiled by Kevin Love now

Love is awesome(and will make a better pro I'm about 99% sure). Its really hokey but Hansbrough really is as good as he is b/c of his hustle. He's a good player, but by no stretch is he a great one. But he's working harder than anyone else on the court on either team every single play.

[Radii]

Hansbrough with a kick out for a 3!!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

And on the women's side, Tennessee rallies from an early 10 point defecit to beat #21 Vandy 63-48. As expected, it'll be LSU & UT tomorrow for the SEC tournament title.

[st.cronin]

Henderson putting the ball on the floor has absolutely killed Duke in the second half.

[Radii]

With about 3 minutes to go Paulus missed two wide open shots in a row short, when Duke was pulling the ball out to eat up some clock. I think they're tired... Paulus is for sure.

[Lathum]

Man, UNC showed some heart down the stretch

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Man, UNC showed some heart down the stretch

Agreed. Very good display for them down the stretch.

[BishopMVP]

Love the no-call on the Duke player trying to jump into Hansbrough for 3 FT's. I hate when players rely on referees instead of trying to hit a shot.

UMass wins, locks up the #3 seed for the A-10 tournament. They should be in now, but let's get a couple more wins in AC to seal it. This is a team that can do some damage against #4/5/6 seeds.

[Radii]

Huge win. Duke shut down Hansbrough as good as anyone has all season(and Hansbrough was *really* forcing it at times). I'm really impressed with this win. ACC Regular Season champions, woohoo!!!

[INDalltheway]

I like watching this UNC team. Hansbrough definitely has grown on me. You really have to respect how hard he plays. His putback with about 2 minutes left was so expected. I knew when the scrum started that he would end up with the ball and score it. Sure enough, that's what happened.

[Radii]

IM with Duke fan friend(neither of us are really big trash talkers):

About 2 minutes of normal conversation:

Me: Duke did a great job doubleteaming Hansbrough tonight, best defense on him all year I think
Him: Well really just the refs didn't call bullshit fouls all night like usual
Him: But they still let him travel every time he touched the ball


I should wait for a better spot to bring this up b/c i know he's annoyed that his team lost and the point would be better if it wasn't involving my own team. But this happens when we watch games not involving either team pretty much constantly. I know the UCLA games the last few days have had some pretty critical decisions at the end and I've just kept my mouth shut on those, but jesus fucking christ I don't think anyone anywhere thinks their teams ever lose a game b/c of bad play. The refs decide every fucking game that gets played ever.

A better example is Missouri/Kansas' last game, buddy of mine is a Missouri fan, Kansas wins the game by 19, leads the entire way by a good bit. After the game his only comments are about how the refs favor the big school and Missouri doesn't have a chance because they have to play against the refs. Really? In a 19 point god damn loss?

I stay away from team fan sites, even UNC ones, because they are usually filled with such idiocy that I want to root against my own team given how stupid some UNC fans can be, but its the same with any team. But it seems like its everywhere now. We don't watch games for a good game anymore. We watch them to see who gets cheated the least.

If a call that is egregiously bad decides the end of a game, I understand the comments(though I don't think you've ever seen me make one in any sport) and the frustration, but if someone misses a palming call or gets a charge wrong at full speed in the middle of a game, just shut the fuck up about it.

/end rant

(hopefully its clear I'm not talking to anyone here over anything, I'm just frustrated b/c much of the fun of being a fan is watching and discussing games with others, and I feel like that's almost impossible unless you're primarily judging the refs)

[SuperGrover]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I thought his point was fairly clear. In his opinion, USC is the 2nd most dangerous team from the Pac-10 come tourney time. Personally, I agree with that, but Stanford is right up there.

Edit: A 6 point win isn't that easily handled by the way

Thanks Eaglesfan. I thought the sentence was pretty clear.

USC is a dangerous team and has proven as much against KU, Memphis, UCLA and Stanford. They'll be a lower seed (6/7) with a legitimate shot at making the regional final.

[Noop]

I thought the refs were going in UNC's favor. Hansbrough travelled all night basically and a few charges where called blocking fouls. I have no horse in this race but it did seem like UNC was getting most of the calls.