Tim Tebow ..

[Jughead Spock]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

1. John Fox changed the coaching scheme to accommodate Tebow's strength and limitations. This is the single biggest reason for any improvement, not Tim Tebow.

Couldn't agree more with this, and it's one of the more infuriating things about the whole Tebow hoopla. Fox changed the scheme to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, basically gave them near 50/50 odds to win any game, and put them into a position to win against anyone - if everything rolls right. It did for a few games, especially against teams that already had suspect defenses, or even more woeful offenses.

I've never liked Denver, I've never liked Tebow, but I have all the respect in the world for John Fox, the job he did in Carolina, and the job he did in Denver this year. Hard to argue against Harbaugh for COTY, but Fox is #2 in my mind.

[CrimsonFox]

So here's what i've gleaned about tebow from the brief scimming i've done of articles and footage:
i gleaned that he is a bad quarterback that prays to jesus for touchdowns...and that he doesn't know how to throw a pass and just runs the ball inwhich is what that pittsburgh guy used to do when they moved him from runningback to QB, can't remember his name...Kordell something

and that he gets way more credit than he deserves and in fact more news coverage than he deserves mainly for prayer and being nice to little kids.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

He didn't have 1,000 yards this year, end of story. Simply put, Lloyd simply had one good year and you want to make him out like he's an awesome WR. He's not. And when you look at the rest of the WRs for the Rams versus those in Denver, any NFL coach would take the guys on Denver as a group. The Rams WRs and TEs are simply that bad - in part due to injuries this year. The best receiver on the Rams is easily Stephen Jackson. If you wanted to call the WR corps a wash, that's ok. But in no way are the Rams' WRs worse than those in Denver.

The best receiver on either team is Brandon Lloyd by a wide margin. It's nto even close.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

1. John Fox changed the coaching scheme to accommodate Tebow's strength and limitations. This is the single biggest reason for any improvement, not Tim Tebow. Interestingly enough, Foxy was criticized for changing his offense, but it worked wonders. If Foxy ran that offense behind Orton, there still would have been a marked increase in the running game statistics.

2. Why? As an OL, if you run consistently, the game gets easier as it goes longer. It's easier on the legs to drive block than to pass block and you tend to wear down your opponents. Running begets running. It just doesn't always beget scoring, which has been shown earlier in this thread.

3. Players were learning a new blocking scheme during the first few weeks of the season. It's only natural that they'd improve over the course of the year as they became accustomed to it.

4. Get your facts straight. McGahee gained 100+ yards in 3 of the 5 games Orton started for a 4.51 YPC average. So, in fact, his YPC was higher without Tebow than with him. Considering he didn't start the 1st game and only ran the ball 3 times, his yards per game as a starter was also significantly higher with Orton under center.

Note I'm not saying that Tebow didn't have an impact on the running game. He did. He was the impetus to run the ball more. He also gave them another threat out of the backfield. But trying to give him most of the credit for the vastly improved running game just doesn't fit what was seen on the field. It was entirely a team effort.

1) You don't say? A team played to a player's strength. So the Packers and Saints implementing a pass heavy offense is the reason that their passing statistics are so good, not the Quarterbacks in them. That is what you are saying.

2) So anyone can be an elite running team if they just run it a few more times each game. Better inform all NFL coaches.

3) They just happened to pick up this new blocking scheme the minute Tebow entered the lineup. What a coincidence!

4) No it wasn't. Tebow entered the Chargers game in the 2nd half and McGahee and the rushing attack as a whole was more succesful immediately (maybe the blocking scheme kicked in in the 3rd quarter!).

Originally Posted by Blackadar

The two lines aren't even comparable. No, they certainly didn't play well against NE, but then again they were forced to pass as the defense gave up 35 points by halftime. It's relatively easy to tee off on a QB when you know they have to pass to catch up. You seem to like using single games to try to prove a point. If so, how do you explain the prior week when they didn't give up a sack to the Steelers, who had the best defense in the NFL?

See, before you even answer that, let me help you. In 2011, the Patriots had 5 more sacks than the Steelers did in the regular season. Again, you're drawing incorrect conclusions based on faulty facts.

I already said Denver has a better offensive line. It's not much better though. They were I believe the most penalized in the entire league. They played well against Pittsburgh for sure. They also were able to leave a tight end in a lot to help Orlando Franklin which is something they didn't have the luxury of doing late in the New England game. There is a difference in scheme playing with the lead as opposed to playing from a huge deficit.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

No, the Bears O-Line was already horrible in the passing game - didn't you know that? 49 sacks allowed in 2011 and 56 in 2010. Do you even watch football? As for Caleb Hanie, he sucks. But it was the loss of Matt Forte in the same game when Hanie took over the starting role that permanently doomed that team. Without the threat of a running game and with a poor QB under center, they were extremely easy to defend. So your point is?

You're making my point for me. Jay Cutler and/or Matt Forte are able to make a really shitty offensive line look passable. Just as Tebow's running ability made a below average offensive line look good. The question is how do those lines perform without a player. They looked worse without Cutler and Forte, just as Denver's looked worse without Tebow this year and last.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Bradford, on the other hand, had much less to work with. His OL was, in every single possible statistical way, significantly worse than Denver's. His WR corps, decimated by injuries, was extremely poor and likely significantly worse than the one in Denver. His stud RB was statistically no better than McGahee, whose performance as a starter actually declined with Tebow under center.

His line was worse than Denver's. But Lloyd is a better receiver than anyone on Denver. And if you're honestly trying to tell me that Willis McGahee is a better player than Steven Jackson, I don't know what to say. Bradford at least had a couple playmakers to work with, Tebow didn't.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Finally, how do you explain away last year for Bradford? 60% completion ratio, 3,500 yards, 18tds/15ints...was all of that just a one season wonder? Or is it far more likely that the installation of a new offensive scheme by Josh McDaniels - yeah, the same coach Denver fired - coupled with injuries to the WRs and an OL that was, by far, the worst in the league doomed Bradford's season? FYI, I'm not entirely sold on Bradford. His comp percentage was fine last year, but his YPA was extremely low. That means he threw a bunch of dump off passes. This year was a throw-away for him due to the pathetic offense and ill-fitting scheme that surrounded him. If he doesn't improve under Jeff Fisher, then he's not the answer.

I don't understand everyone touting Bradford's rookie season. Sure it would have been great 10 years ago, but in this era we have guys like Andy Dalton and Cam Newton stepping in putting up much better numbers. It was an acceptable rookie year but he has some major declines. And for the lack of talent, a guy like Kellen Clemens was able to step in and put up similar numbers to Bradford this year. I'd at least like to see my franchise QB have a little seperation from a guy that was picked up in December this year.

And I don't know if you're trying to cut down Josh McDaniels or what. Maybe he's a shitty head coach and poor talent evaluator, but that Broncos team threw the ball pretty well last year with Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow. The difference being that McDaniels runs an offense where you have to read a defense and check off receivers more. Bradford was unable to do that and showed no signs of being able to. Maybe that'll change over his career, but I'm less concerned about his "stats" and "wins" and more concerned that he doesn't look capable of figuring out who to throw the ball to.

Regardless, my entire point was why isn't Tebow treated the same as Sam Bradford? Why isn't he given a pass for having a bad supporting cast? Why isn't he given a pass for having trouble reading a defense and making bad throws? He's had 10 less starts, never gone into a season as the #1, and wasn't the top pick in the entire draft. I can understand people thinking he won't be good (I think he's a career backup), but how little rope he gets is different from what you find with most young QBs.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Regardless, my entire point was why isn't Tebow treated the same as Sam Bradford? Why isn't he given a pass for having a bad supporting cast? Why isn't he given a pass for having trouble reading a defense and making bad throws? He's had 10 less starts, never gone into a season as the #1, and wasn't the top pick in the entire draft. I can understand people thinking he won't be good (I think he's a career backup), but how little rope he gets is different from what you find with most young QBs.

Because the only person who thinks he has such a horrible cast (comparable to the one in St. Louis) is you. Don't you get that by now?

The rest of your post isn't worth responding to because you're either (A) Factually Inaccurate or (B) Restating what you've already stated. Take for example your last paragraph. He's had 14 starts in the regular season, 2 in the playoffs = 16 starts. 16 > 10. It's getting to the point that arguing with you is exasperating because your beliefs are based on entirely incorrect facts. If we can't agree on facts, then there's no use in discussing opinions.

[RainMaker]

Sam Bradford has started 26 games. Tim Tebow has started 16 games. 26 minus 16 is 10 less starts for Tebow. But you're right, if we can't agree on 3rd grade mathematics, there is no use discussing opinions.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't understand everyone touting Bradford's rookie season. Sure it would have been great 10 years ago, but in this era we have guys like Andy Dalton and Cam Newton stepping in putting up much better numbers. It was an acceptable rookie year but he has some major declines. And for the lack of talent, a guy like Kellen Clemens was able to step in and put up similar numbers to Bradford this year. I'd at least like to see my franchise QB have a little seperation from a guy that was picked up in December this year.

This is just ridiculous. A new era for rookie QBs? How was Stafford's rookie year? Mark Sanchez? Josh Freeman? Christian Ponder? Blaine Gabbert?

You named 2 QBs, one of which had somewhat similar numbers to Bradford, and it's a new era of rookie QBs. If the new standard for rookie QBs is Dalton and Cam then where the hell does that put Tebow?

You still won't acknowledge the fact that Bradford tried to play through an injury this season when it was obvious he shouldn't have and it may have had some impact on his play.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Sam Bradford has started 26 games. Tim Tebow has started 16 games. 26 minus 16 is 10 less starts for Tebow. But you're right, if we can't agree on 3rd grade mathematics, there is no use discussing opinions.

That was a reading comprehension error on my part. My apologies.

[Matthean]

Bradford took over a 1-15 team and lead them to a 7-9 season as a rookie. Tebow given most of the season took a 4-12 team and made them 8-8. Now, factor in the sheer absurdity of some of Denver's wins and ugliness of Tebow's play and I can see why people are giving Bradford more of a pass.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

This is just ridiculous. A new era for rookie QBs? How was Stafford's rookie year? Mark Sanchez? Josh Freeman? Christian Ponder? Blaine Gabbert?

You named 2 QBs, one of which had somewhat similar numbers to Bradford, and it's a new era of rookie QBs. If the new standard for rookie QBs is Dalton and Cam then where the hell does that put Tebow?

You still won't acknowledge the fact that Bradford tried to play through an injury this season when it was obvious he shouldn't have and it may have had some impact on his play.

A new era in general. I'm not knocking his rookie season, I just don't see why it's so special and used as some justification for his later failures. He was the #1 pick and those rookie numbers should be what is expected of him.

We are seeing more and more QBs being able to step into the NFL and succeed early. Dalton and Cam were two examples of rookies who were able to play this year. In shorter bursts, we saw guys like TJ Yates and Jake Locker do the same. Joe Flacco and Jay Cutler also were able to step in right away and be succesful.

Out of the guys you mention, I don't think there are a lot of top QBs in there. I'm not sure if you're trying to make my point for me, but listing a guy like Mark Sanchez who is not that good as an example of a guy who struggled early on is not helping the case that Sam Bradford might be good. I'd also add that none of the other guys you mentioned were the #1 pick in the NFL draft.

I'm sure the injury had some impact on his play this year. But he didn't seem like someone who was able to grasp that offense and read a defense properly. The complex offense they put in seemed way over his head. Maybe that will change in the future.

[Chubby]

"new era" = 2 guys. got it.

[Danny]

Im not sure using Locker or Yates as examples is very good. Yates really did not play very well overall despite having a ton of surrounding talent. Locker had too small of a sample size to use an example. That said, there has seemed to be a lot more qb's having success in their first year recently. We'll see if an odd coincidence or a trend in the coming years.

[Ksyrup]

If I didn't know any better, I'd think this article was written by Tebow's press agent, not ESPN. Good Lord.

Source: Tim Tebow played through pain

By Adam Schefter
ESPN

Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow played through considerable pain in Saturday night's AFC divisional playoff game against New England.

At the start of the third quarter, Tebow tore cartilage on his first rib where it attaches to his sternum, bruised his lung and had fluid buildup in the plural space of his chest, according to an NFL source.

The injuries came as the result of a hit in the pocket when Tebow was pressured after throwing a pass. Even so, he was determined to finish the game with his teammates regardless of the score.

The Patriots defeated the Broncos 45-10.

Because of the severe pain, Tebow had trouble sleeping over the weekend, then spent Monday undergoing an MRI on his chest to determine the extent of the damage. He has been undergoing rehab throughout this week.

Even with the injuries, it is believed Tebow will begin his offseason training program according to schedule.

[Logan]

I read that and almost threw up. Too bad they didn't mention the 35-7 score at the time.

[spleen1015]

When ESPN does 60 for 60, Tebow will be 59 of them.

[RomaGoth]

I believe that Tebow has earned his own forum. FOFC mods - MAKE IT HAPPEN!

[molson]

Tebow had the courage and perseverance to suck all the way until the end of that game!

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by molson

Tebow had the courage and perseverance to suck all the way until the end of that game!

And the legend grows...

In a century, Tebow will be mentioned alongside Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

And the legend grows...

In a century, Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed will be mentioned alongside Tim Tebow.

Fixed that for you.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If I didn't know any better, I'd think this article was written by Tebow's press agent, not ESPN. Good Lord.

If true, this also does bring up the fact that his body is going to get the crap beat out of it and it might shorten whatever length of a career he might have.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Fixed that for you.

[BrianD]

So what happens if Tim Tebow and Chuck Norris get into a fight? Does the world just cease to exist?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by BrianD

So what happens if Tim Tebow and Chuck Norris get into a fight? Does the world just cease to exist?

The universe implodes and in the next one it is a combination of Tebow and Norris that serves as God.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by BrianD

So what happens if Tim Tebow and Chuck Norris get into a fight? Does the world just cease to exist?

Chuck doesn't stand a chance. This is, after all, Tebow's world. We all just live in it.

[bhlloy]

QB PLAYS THROUGH INJURY SHOCKER. Barf. Chris Simms says to call him when he nearly dies on the field.

I respect Tebow the person and as a player who has had to fight to get a role in the league but holy shit the media coverage makes me want him to not exist any more.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

QB PLAYS THROUGH INJURY SHOCKER. Barf. Chris Simms says to call him when he nearly dies on the field.

I respect Tebow the person and as a player who has had to fight to get a role in the league but holy shit the media coverage makes me want him to not exist any more.

It is the evil empire that is ESPN.

[JediKooter]

Just imagine how much worse the Tim Tebow coverage would be if he played for an east coast team.

[cartman]

Is it true his rib had a 3/16th of an inch crack?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by cartman

Is it true his rib had a 3/16th of an inch crack?

No. His WHOLE rib fell out and he put it back in all the while calling the next play in the huddle. When McGahee tried to help him, he was like 'I got this bro. I've been practicing a rib replacement all week.'

[cartman]

or was the cartilage tear 3/16ths of an inch? If anything, all of the media attention taught me were the numbers 3 and 16 are significant in regards to all things Tebow.

[Ksyrup]

Desktop Tim Tebow @DesktopTimTebow 36m
Stood tall for the last four games of the season despite a slight tear near my hamstring. One of the risks of being made from paper.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

No. His WHOLE rib fell out and he put it back in all the while calling the next play in the huddle. When McGahee tried to help him, he was like 'I got this bro. I've been practicing a rib replacement all week.'

uhh no. his whole rib fell out, turned into Tebowina and she was whisked away to the vatican

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Chubby

uhh no. his whole rib fell out, turned into Tebowina and she was whisked away to the vatican

Vatican? What are the Papists doing getting involved with a Baptist?......

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

Vatican? What are the Papists doing getting involved with a Baptist?......

He's that transcendent.

[k0ruptr]

So Timmy is coming to Vegas in March (I find this hilarious, I hope he walks the strip and gets mobbed by hookers) and he is going to be doing a VIP invite only motivational speaking thingy at a church down the road, and I somehow got an invite, no idea how but apparently my wife met some one who is friends with the fam and she gave us tickets.

So, I'm not much of a church/religion guy (Who am I kidding, I haven't set foot in a church my entire life) But debating whether I should go anyway.

I told my wife I am going to shake his hand and drop to my knee and Tebow in front of him. She was not amused.

[Ksyrup]

I would love to see him walk by those guys handing the nudie materials on every corner. First corner: "Why thank you, I'll read this when I get a cha....oh. My eyes!"

[k0ruptr]

hahaha. I might pay money just to follow 10 -20 yards behind him while he walks the strip at midnight. It would be like the splitting of the red sea, with all the drunk people stopping and kneeling for a tebow in front of the almighty tebow

I'm not gonna lie, I kinda wanna shake his hand or get a touch in so I can finally get rid of this back pain.

[Drake]

Don't want to check the whole thread. Has this been posted yet?

In Case You Were Wondering If The Guy Who Wrote The St. Elmo's Fire Theme Song Rewrote It For Tim Tebow | Jockular

(John Parr remakes "St. Elmo's Fire" as a Tim Tebow tribute.)

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

hahaha. I might pay money just to follow 10 -20 yards behind him while he walks the strip at midnight. It would be like the splitting of the red sea, with all the drunk people stopping and kneeling for a tebow in front of the almighty tebow

I'm not gonna lie, I kinda wanna shake his hand or get a touch in so I can finally get rid of this back pain.

This would be awesome.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Drake

Don't want to check the whole thread. Has this been posted yet?

In Case You Were Wondering If The Guy Who Wrote The St. Elmo's Fire Theme Song Rewrote It For Tim Tebow | Jockular

(John Parr remakes "St. Elmo's Fire" as a Tim Tebow tribute.)

I think I posted the video on the previous page.

[RomaGoth]

Bump

Tim Tebow and the Jets: What could possibly go wrong? - The Washington Post

[Lathum]

Glad this thread was bumped, we needed another one going.

[JediKooter]

Who the hell is Tim Tebow?

[jeff061]

I was thrilled when Denver beat Pitt, thereby ensuring the pats going to the AFC championship. For similar reasons I'm equally thrilled he's with the Jets.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Who the hell is Tim Tebow?

15 pages in this thread negate your snide comment.

[CrimsonFox]

Looks like the Jets are going to try the ole Two-Quarterback Offense!

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Looks like the Jets are going to try the ole Two-Quarterback Offense!

Because they can't find one.

[Senator]

Brad Smith shakes his head.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

15 pages in this thread negate your snide comment.

Snide? Looks like I need to work on my delivery.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Snide? Looks like I need to work on my delivery.

Wait, are you Tim Tebow?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Wait, are you Tim Tebow?

There have been times where I don't know who the hell I am.