2007 NBA Playoffs Thread

[st.cronin]

I could've sworn I heard that Bowen got suspended, apparently I was wrong. So, how did the commish justify not suspending Bowen, exactly?

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Hell, or the Houston Rockets of the mid 90s.

SI

Can't the current Spurs work too?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Hell, or the Houston Rockets of the mid 90s.

SI

I find any attempts to compare Yao Ming to the Dream as equally sacrilegious as others find comparisons between LeBron/Jordan and Nowitski/Bird.

For now, comparisons to Kevin Duckworth are as far as I am willing to go.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Listening to some reports earlier today, the Rockets' owner wants the new coach to run a style similar to the system the Suns run. Yao Ming has a lot of conditioning work to do if he is suppose play Amare to.....ummmm....... who exactly would be that Steve Nash wanna be? Mike Bibby?

I've heard that as well, and Les is nuts if he thinks it's gonna work with Yao. He's worked a TON on his conditioning the past four years, but he never going to be the type of player to fly up and down the court...

And some Chinese reporter said that Chauncy Billups told him that he wants to go to Houston, but of course there's no way we could afford him with Yao and TMac already with max contracts.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I've heard that as well, and Les is nuts if he thinks it's gonna work with Yao. He's worked a TON on his conditioning the past four years, but he never going to be the type of player to fly up and down the court...

And some Chinese reporter said that Chauncy Billups told him that he wants to go to Houston, but of course there's no way we could afford him with Yao and TMac already with max contracts.

You could do a sign-and-trade. Then, Billups' Bird years would carry over with him to the Rockets.

[JeeberD]

But then you get into the issue of is a Chauncy/TMac or Chauncy Yao team better than the Yao/TMac team that we have now?

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

And some Chinese reporter said that Chauncy Billups told him that he wants to go to Houston, but of course there's no way we could afford him with Yao and TMac already with max contracts.

Why would Billups want to go to Houston when he's the star of a championship calibur team already. With as important as he is to the team I don't see a problem with him getting the money he wants here like with Ben - he was replaceable and Chauncey would be far more difficult to replace. Besides Houston has nothing to offer trade wise. I guess if Billups went to Dumars and said he wanted out and they wouldn't have much choice but I don't know why he would want to do that.

As an aside I haven't watched many Suns games but does Steve Nash always whine that much? The play where he got stripped and then plowed over Tony Parker he got up and did a mini-Sheed impression when he got called for a foul and seemed to complain every time there was a call that went against him or the Suns. The other thing I noticed was that every time he threw the ball away he made a gesture like he couldn't believe his teammate didn't catch the ball or that he could possibly make a turnover. I didn't think Nash was that kind of guy.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

But then you get into the issue of is a Chauncy/TMac or Chauncy Yao team better than the Yao/TMac team that we have now?

Huh? You could have all 3. If Detroit is going to lose Billups to free agency otherwise, the price for him wouldn't be high (something like Alston and a 1st rounder?)

[Atocep]

Wouldn't be that simple. Detroit would have to sign him to the extention and then Houston would have to match the salary. Also, Alston has a contract running through the 09-10 season, I doubt they'd want him on the books that long.

[Gary Gorski]

If Billups were to leave he's looking at max contract money meaning Houston would have to trade more than Alston who like the previous poster said is on the books until 09/10 and I doubt the Pistons want to spend that kind of money on a backup PG. IF it were to happen I think you'd be looking at Howard, Battier and a 1st rounder. The only problem with that is Battier's contract is even longer and while he would be a contributor its a tough fit for them since they already have Prince and I doubt they really want a backcourt of Hamilton and Battier but a frontcourt of Battier/Prince/Wallace doesn't offer much physical play. Maybe Luther Head would be of interest in a deal too but he's got a small salary which is bad for trade purposes.

[RPI-Fan]

I thought that if someone had more than 3 Bird years, you can give them a deal that puts you over the cap by any amount? So, since Billups would certainly have the requisite Bird years, and you retain Bird years in a trade, Houston wouldn't have to send equivalent salary back over?

[Gary Gorski]

Yes the deal can give Billups any amount up to the max for his experience level in the league but in order to make a trade if both teams are over the salary cap Houston would have to trade at least 85% of the amount of Billups' new contract back to Detroit which is why guys like Howard and Battier would be the likely ones in a deal like that.

[Ajaxab]

It's a bit belated and I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I really enjoyed Van Gundy on ESPN's broadcast on Friday night. Breen and Barry are adequate (even though I much prefer TNT's Albert and Kerr), but Van Gundy really added a lot with some insightful comments. I could listen to him talk hoops all night.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

It's a bit belated and I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I really enjoyed Van Gundy on ESPN's broadcast on Friday night. Breen and Barry are adequate (even though I much prefer TNT's Albert and Kerr), but Van Gundy really added a lot with some insightful comments. I could listen to him talk hoops all night.

I was impressed by him too. I still feel Hubie Brown is the best analyst broadcasting the NBA. I really hope either Brown or Van Gundy are the analyst for the Finals.

[Young Drachma]

Utah Jazz. Bad name, but they sure have made it their own over these years, huh? I was just trying to get past the surrealness of it as they were doing the pre-game and they kept saying it.

[Young Drachma]

Dola --

I like how Mike Wilbon has been integrated into the NBA coverage more and more this year. He's knowledgable and while you get the impression he's just as buddy-buddy with the athletes as Steven A. Smith likes to remind you he is, but he doesn't have to scream to get his point across.

Grant Hill is on the pre-game today and isn't doing terrible. He seems nervous, even though he's trying to hide it. I think he'll come into his own.

Jamal Mashburn hasn't been too terrible in the few studios sessions I've seen him on the ESPN NBA shows either.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Dola --

I like how Mike Wilbon has been integrated into the NBA coverage more and more this year. He's knowledgable and while you get the impression he's just as buddy-buddy with the athletes as Steven A. Smith likes to remind you he is, but he doesn't have to scream to get his point across.

Grant Hill is on the pre-game today and isn't doing terrible. He seems nervous, even though he's trying to hide it. I think he'll come into his own.

Jamal Mashburn hasn't been too terrible in the few studios sessions I've seen him on the ESPN NBA shows either.

It's probably because they are directly compared to TNT, but ESPN's coverage comes across as so stilted and formal compared to TNT's more loose and fun style. ESPN needs to allow these guys to show that they have some personality while at the same time keeping them from degenerating into Stephen A. Smith territory.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

It's probably because they are directly compared to TNT, but ESPN's coverage comes across as so stilted and formal compared to TNT's more loose and fun style. ESPN needs to allow these guys to show that they have some personality while at the same time keeping them from degenerating into Stephen A. Smith territory.

True. I can't say enough about how much I ENJOY listening to the guys on TNT. Even when the veer off track, I just enjoy their commentary immensely more. I just like them doing basketball more, period. ESPN's coverage bothers me. I wish they'd just cover the games as highlights rather than doing all of this coverage of stuff, because it's weird to watch how they do stuff and the MTV analogy is apt.

Everyone on that network seems like they need to be some sort of celebrity for simply being a talking head. On TNT, I don't feel like anyone is trying to outshine anyone else.

Van Gundy is a solid addition to their booth on ESPN, tho.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I was impressed by him too. I still feel Hubie Brown is the best analyst broadcasting the NBA. I really hope either Brown or Van Gundy are the analyst for the Finals.

I like the addition of Van Gundy as well, but why was Hubie demoted and isn't even on the pregame/halftime shows? He'd be better than Barry or Grant Hill.

I concur on TNT's coverage. Albert, Kerr, and Doug Collins should be a great listen for play by play. The studio team is the best around. Charles will often just blurt out what he's thinking while E.J. and Kenny take jabs at him. It's definitely entertaining and I actually look forward to watching their post game show. I wish they did the finals instead of ABC where I'm really getting sick of that stupid song Right Now by the Pussycat Dolls.

[Young Drachma]

Williams had 34 pts. 9 assists and 7 boards for Utah. What a beast.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I could've sworn I heard that Bowen got suspended, apparently I was wrong. So, how did the commish justify not suspending Bowen, exactly?

I believe his statement was "In the interest of ensuring the Spurs win the Western Conference, we will not be suspending Bruce Bowen or any Spur for any action whatsoever."

[Brian Swartz]

Anyone mind explaining what exactly conceivable vested interest the league could possibly have in the Spurs winning?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Anyone mind explaining what exactly conceivable vested interest the league could possibly have in the Spurs winning?

Clean-cut, no problem team.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Anyone mind explaining what exactly conceivable vested interest the league could possibly have in the Spurs winning?

Yeah, this is the question I posed a page or so ago... Spurs-Pistons is a nightmare matchup for the NBA IMO, and Suns & Mavs in particular would be far more attractive teams coming in from the West.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Anyone mind explaining what exactly conceivable vested interest the league could possibly have in the Spurs winning?

None. I don't get all of this the NBA will do anything to get the Spurs to the finals talk either. What they're headed for is another Spurs-Pistons matchup which I think was one of the if not the lowest rated finals ever. Both of their styles of play just aren't appealing to anyone who is not a hardcore basketball fan. And neither team has that big, flashy star player. If anything they would want to keep the Suns in the playoffs because their style of play is more appealing and avoid a Utah-San Antonio matchup. It's stupid to think the NBA wants another Spurs-Pistons matchup when it will not be watched by anyone. They're probably hoping the Cavs can somehow win so they at least have Lebron.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Clean-cut, no problem team.

NBA would prefer high-scoring games involving the Suns or Mavs, or even Warriors, to a clean-cut Spurs team beating the Pistons 92-85 4 games out of 6 one would think.

[Brian Swartz]

Clean-cut, no problem team.

Financially speaking, as others have noted, the Spurs consistent success is a miserable condition for the league. The boneheads repeatedly and intentionally avoid marketing themselves, thinking somehow that winning is more important. Whereas I don't know a single fan who doesn't love watching teams like Phoenix play. If the league was going to be biased in one direction, it sure wouldn't be pro-Spurs, almost no matter who they were playing.

[Chief Rum]

And yet, they continue to make decisions that aid the Spurs.

I may not know why they are doing what they are doing. All I do know is I see the evidence, and I see what it points to. Every decision by the league that I have seen so far has gone toward the Spurs (that could impact them, that is).

I don't need to know why a rat is a rat to call it a rat.

[Brian Swartz]

There are good explanations for every decision made that do not involve pro-Spurs bias. Many of them have been discussed in this thread. Furthermore, far worse offenses elsewhere in the league have also gone unpunished. So I find this to be an assertion with no evidence to support it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

There are good explanations for every decision made that do not involve pro-Spurs bias. Many of them have been discussed in this thread. Furthermore, far worse offenses elsewhere in the league have also gone unpunished. So I find this to be an assertion with no evidence to support it.

More like an assertion with plenty of evidence, but you choose not to believe it.

[bhlloy]

While I won't go as far as to say there is a pro-Spurs bias (the NBA would love to see Nash & the Suns win it all), I am very interested in knowing the difference between an "inadvertent" knee to the groin area by Bruce Bowen and an "inadvertent" elbow to the head by Kobe Bryant. I know which one looked more deliberate, and it sure as hell wasn't Kobe. And I fucking hate Kobe and the Lakers.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

More like an assertion with plenty of evidence, but you choose not to believe it.

I'm a Cavs fan who doesn't care who makes it through in the West, but would prefer the Suns than the Spurs. Every single incident that you consider solid evidence, I consider questionable at best.

What are we looking at:

1) Suspension of ref after run-in with Duncan. I think it was warranted. The ref over-reacted and ended up playing a far bigger part in a game than a ref ever should.

2) Bruce Bowen's achilles-kick. I not only think he did it on purpose, I'm sure he did it on purpose. Having said that, he hasn't been penalised for it before because he is very good at making it look like an accident. I don't know how much of an issue the Suns actually made of it, either. I know that Amare spoke up about it, but did they actually file a complaint to the NBA? I don't know that they did.

3) The suspensions of Amare and Diaw. They left the bench during a scuffle, and were suspended. It may be a dumb rule, but it's in the book, and the NBA enforced it as such. Hopefully it changes over the offseason to make allowances for cases like this, but right now it's the right call.

Am I forgetting anything else?

[Brian Swartz]

More like an assertion with plenty of evidence, but you choose not to believe it.

Not at all. You can't point to one thing that shows any clear bias.

I am very interested in knowing the difference between an "inadvertent" knee to the groin area by Bruce Bowen and an "inadvertent" elbow to the head by Kobe Bryant. I know which one looked more deliberate, and it sure as hell wasn't Kobe. And I fucking hate Kobe and the Lakers.

I totally agree with this, but the NBA(rightly or wrongly) lets more stuff go in the playoffs when the stakes are higher. I'm looking at you, Baron Davis and Jason Richardson. There's definitely an inconsistency there, but one that once again does not show any pro-Spurs bias.

[larrymcg421]

Evidence that the NBA has made decisions that favored the Spurs is not the same thing as evidence that the NBA has a pro-Spurs bias.

[Arles]

The only thing you could point to with the Spurs is maybe they want to be "extra fair" after the Duncan-Crawford thing to end the season. Duncan made a comment like "I hope the refs now treat us fair in the playoffs" after the Joey Crawford incident. There are a handful of incidents that could have gone either way and all went with the Spurs: Bowen's kick to Amare, Bowen's knee to the groin, suspending both Amare and Boris and not suspending Duncan or Bowen for game 5 (even though they were on the court). None of these were that aggrigious, but I would bet that Bowen would have earned a one-game suspension for the knee if the Crawford-Duncan thing would not have happened.

Any event, whether it is "right" or not, forcing two top players from Phoenix to sit a key pivatol game 5 at home is probably a main factor in the Spurs winning. So, while the NBA probably didn't favor the Suns and maybe didn't even make one inproper ruling in the eyes of some, they certainly helped the Spurs advance by not sitting Bowen or Duncan and sitting Amare and Boris. So, the NBA is going to have to deal with some bad press from it even though it may not be warranted (not the end of the world). And it won't be nearly as bad as the ratings for the finals.

[Groundhog]

Some exciting basketball going on in Detroit tonight, as the Cavs and Pistons battle to shoot above 40%.

[amdaily]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Some exciting basketball going on in Detroit tonight, as the Cavs and Pistons battle to shoot above 40%.

Lebron leading the way at 2-9!

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by amdaily

Lebron leading the way at 2-9!

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by amdaily

Lebron leading the way at 2-9!

Well he's waiting until the 4th quarter because apparently that's all that counts.

[Young Drachma]

I'm impressed that the Cavs are still in it, despite LeBron failing to show up. That bodes well for them if they can get their act together.

I'd love to see a Cleveland v. Utah final. Not so much because I want LeBron coronated, as much as it would be a nice departure from the usual predictability of the NBA playoffs.

[cmp]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm impressed that the Cavs are still in it, despite LeBron failing to show up. That bodes well for them if they can get their act together.

I'm quite impressed that Billups has only 3, Prince is shooting 1-9, and Rasheed only has 6 yet Detroit is winning somehow. If those guys get going Cleveland will be in trouble.

[stevew]

Someone needs to cap Eric Snow in the back of the head. He may play decent defense, but he sucks so badly on offense. Coach Brown is in the bottom 5 coaches in the league, so it's not suprising he keeps leaning on Snow.

[stevew]

dola, Detroit is the best team left in the playoffs. This is the NBA finals here in the east....The Cavs swept the Spurs in the regular season, and the Pistons and cavs both have the size to contain duncan. I suppose the Spurs do have the refs in their back pocket, so that may be hard to overcome.

[stevew]

triple dola,

I've been waiting for Andy and Sheed to throw down for the last couple seasons here....I wonder if it'll be this series.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by stevew

dola, Detroit is the best team left in the playoffs. This is the NBA finals here in the east....

Interesting statement.

[stevew]

Eh, there's just so much western conference Bias in this thread, I figured I'd mix it up. I mean, seriously, does ANYONE think the Jazz can handle the Spurs or Pistons? Didn't think so. And the Pistons are so good and have so much experience in the playoffs, that even Webber can't curse them if they get into the finals vs the Spurs. However, Z is actually rested this year and he usually gives the Pistons a tough match up, meaning that I think the Cavs are the only team left that can possibly beat the Pistons. I think the Pistons will win this round again, but I hope the cavs can give them hell this year.

[stevew]

I hate Larry Hughes.

[Groundhog]

I have a 15 year old kid playing on my Thursday night rec league team that I'd rather see taking last minute shots in a Cavs uniform than Larry Hughes.

[Groundhog]

I hope LeBron comes out and drills a 3 right now if for no other reason than for me to gloat in the 'LeBron Chokes...' thread.

[stevew]

Donny's gotta knock that one down. I think kicking it to him there is probably the right move....hell he probably shoots over 50% from that spot.