Tim Tebow ..

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I'm scared as shit for the Steelers. All four games can't end how people think, there's always some upset. Frickin' Tebow.

Never underestimate the power of the terrible towel.

[TroyF]

Tebow regressed badly the final two weeks. Up to the Pats game he was making steady improvements every week. The last two weeks he has been terrible. I see zero way Denver can score on Pittsburgh, much less win the football game.

[Ksyrup]

The only hope we have is in the fact that the Steelers haven't scored much themselves lately. If you throw out the Rams game (although I admit that the Broncos might have more in common with the Rams offense than I want to believe), Pittsburgh hasn't scored more than 20 points on a team other than the Bengals since October. Our best chance is to play them like Cleveland or KC and hope for a few breaks to score 10-16 points. But that might be asking too much.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The only hope we have is in the fact that the Steelers haven't scored much themselves lately. If you throw out the Rams game (although I admit that the Broncos might have more in common with the Rams offense than I want to believe), Pittsburgh hasn't scored more than 20 points on a team other than the Bengals since October. Our best chance is to play them like Cleveland or KC and hope for a few breaks to score 10-16 points. But that might be asking too much.

It might not be. With the Steelers patchwork OL and Mendenhall out, the Steelers' offense is one dimensional. They can't run the ball to the left side out outside, so you pinch the running game and then play the WRs with a safety deep for Wallace/Brown. They're explosive, but still relatively easy to defend.

The Steelers can rack up the yards (12th yards per game), but they can't score inside the 20 - 18th in TD red zone efficiency and 28th in yards per point. They're dead last in takeaways per game (.9). Not to mention that the Steelers are dead last in FG % and on their backup punter.

The Steelers can beat anyone when the turnovers/kicking game is even. But they've consistently put themselves on a long field, don't convert when they get red zone chances and don't force turnovers. That's precisely how Denver won games this year - no turnovers and winning field position. Therefore, as long as Denver doesn't turn the ball over this game will probably stay fairly tight throughout.

[Ksyrup]

But there's also the chance that they just New England us with 30 passes in the 1st half and take a 24-0 lead, too. Our secondary is terrible, especially with the injuries.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm getting in dangerous territory here, because I promised I wouldn't speak of him. . . but I don't think he's running the read option long term. The offense has gotten more conventional each week.

Originally Posted by TroyF

Tebow regressed badly the final two weeks. Up to the Pats game he was making steady improvements every week. The last two weeks he has been terrible. I see zero way Denver can score on Pittsburgh, much less win the football game.

To be fair, I think your earlier statement is true; they were running a more conventional offense...and the experiment failed (at this time, anyhow).

I think Denver can beat Pittsburgh. Their defense is better and if they go back to the read option, they can have some success. It'll be a much closer game than everyone thinks.

[Butter]

More read option, less throwing!

[DeToxRox]

PFT is reporting Brady Quinn took half the first team reps in Broncos practice this week.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Good. In fact, let Matt Prater take some reps at quarterback in practice. As long as the Broncos win the game, I'm happy.

[gkb]

There's been some speculation on the local sports talk radio shows that they might put in a special third-and-long package that has Quinn as QB.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by gkb

There's been some speculation on the local sports talk radio shows that they might put in a special third-and-long package that has Quinn as QB.

He'll then complete two passes in a row and then the Broncos' fans will have found a new savior at quarterback...

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I think Denver can beat Pittsburgh. Their defense is better and if they go back to the read option, they can have some success. It'll be a much closer game than everyone thinks.

Hold on. "Their defense is better"? Better than what? Because I know you're not saying that Denver's D is better than the Steelers (who led the league in yards and points allowed)...

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Hold on. "Their defense is better"? Better than what? Because I know you're not saying that Denver's D is better than the Steelers (who led the league in yards and points allowed)...

+1. Pittsburgh gave up 30+ once. Denver gave up 30+ six times. Denver gave up 40+ four times.

[DanGarion]

+1. Pittsburgh gave up 30+ once. Denver gave up 30+ six times. Denver gave up 40+ four times.

If that is the baseline, the Niners didn't give up more than 27 all season!

[21C]

[CraigSca]

If, after reading this article, you say you hate Tim Tebow, you may need to take a step back and ask yourself, "why?"

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7...ving-tim-tebow

[Ksyrup]

OK, you got me. I hate Rick Reilly much more than I could ever hate Tim Tebow.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

If, after reading this article, you say you hate Tim Tebow, you may need to take a step back and ask yourself, "why?"

Believing in Tim Tebow - ESPN

It's nice to watch someone have fun playing a game.

But when I see stories like this I'm always reminded of The Simpsons.

"Human interest stories, they tug at the heart and fog the mind" - Kent Brockman

Great guy, but I'm more interested in what he does on the field.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

If, after reading this article, you say you hate Tim Tebow, you may need to take a step back and ask yourself, "why?"

Believing in Tim Tebow - ESPN

Wow. Just wow. I'm fully on the Tebow train now. What a great guy!

[Matthean]

Dear New England,

Please win.

Sincerely,

My sanity.

[CrimsonFox]

Believing in Tim Tebow - ESPN

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Dear New England,

Please win.

Sincerely,

My sanity.

"". I worry about Bucc and his religious fervor if Tebow wins.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Believing in Tim Tebow - ESPN

Posting fail.... (aka, read aout 4 posts prior to your post...)

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

If, after reading this article, you say you hate Tim Tebow, you may need to take a step back and ask yourself, "why?"

Believing in Tim Tebow - ESPN

You want me to read an article by Rick Reilly on Tim Tebow? What, will Joe Buck read it out in his monotone? Joe Morgan mention that "he knows how to win?"

Edit: I see Ksyrup made the same point.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Posting fail.... (aka, read aout 4 posts prior to your post...)

but efffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff,
reading is haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard

(and I still don'tknow who this guy is now do i really care)

[Senator]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

What, will Joe Buck read it out in his monotone?

This made me crack up. My 5 year old son walked by the TV a couple of weeks ago during an NFL Buck game and said, "I don't like how that guy talks," and I said, "who, Joe Buck?", and he said, "Yeah, he talks like a robot."

[DougW]

Originally Posted by Senator

This made me crack up. My 5 year old son walked by the TV a couple of weeks ago during an NFL Buck game and said, "I don't like how that guy talks," and I said, "who, Joe Buck?", and he said, "Yeah, he talks like a robot."

Your son is hysterical ! That's awesome.

[Matthean]

Joe Buck Goes On Twitter Blitzkrieg About Call He Made Four Years Ago | January

I think it's interesting he justifies it being a crazy play while defending not adding in the excitement. Still comes across as a jerk as well.

[Mustang]

Tebow the guy. Sounds like a great person. Don't hate him.

Tebow the QB. Interesting on the football field. Makes it exciting in his own way however, I don't want him anywhere near my team.. then again, Aaron Rodgers is the QB of my team so, after watching Aaron QB and then Tebow QB it is like going from Michelangelo to some monkey throwing paint against the wall.

Now.. the media and Tebow cultists that try to make Tebow's story more than it is and becoming angry for not making more of what it is... Ya, those people I hate. So, unfortunately I find myself rooting against Tebow not because I hate the guy, but just because I want the other 5 Million people to shut the f up.

[Raiders Army]

Rick Reilly is an ass most of the time. He's the broken clock and he makes the right call on Tebow.

[Dutch]

E$PN, Fox$ports, etc. have set up the perfect polarizing firestorm for ratings. They have successfully made people love him waaaay more than they would have...and hate him waaaay more than they would have. Then end result? Big-time ratings.

[TroyF]

Here is what people need to understand:

It has never been the Tebow supporters who have driven the guys popularity. Hell, the people who have been in the center of this debate (ya know, the ones who just want to make a fair analysis of his play without resorting to screaming "Tebow Sucks" at every incompletion) look like raving Tebowmanicacs because the hate is so fierce. the 50 year old mother of three who has never watched football isn't doing it now because of religion. She's doing it because she loves the story of a guy who is told he can't do it proving people wrong. Now, my thoughts in a rambling bundle, I understand anyone who doesn't want to read it
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tebow keeps getting compared to perfection. Lets take two throws. On one pass, on a third down at the end of the game, he missed Thomas on an in by about 5 yards. Horrific miss and it could have cost Denver the game. On another pass, on a third and long from inside his 20, he got a little pressure and threw the ball 3 yards behind his TE into the arms of a defender. These throws show he just can't be that accurate. Thing is, he only made one of those throws. Big Ben made the last one. Good QB's make poor throws too. (this just in, even the great Rogers has made poor decisions and throws and don't get me started on Eli Manning)

Here is what is going to happen. Tebow is going to get worked on this offseason. Forget accuracy, footwork or all the other BS you are going to hear about between now and then. The Broncos are going to start throwing more screen passes and designed short throws to the backs. (this is going to come into play because he throws the deep ball so well and DB's will be laying off the Denver receivers on occasion) The Broncos are going to work with Tebow on checkdowns and looking from the deep guy to the short guy on first and second down passes.

His "accuracy" which is so bad will go up to around the 55 to 58% range. Combined with his running skills, his leadership and the other things, the Broncos offense will go up to average or better status. He'll be at the very least an average QB by the numbers and when throwing in the other traits, he'll be an above average QB.

Impossible? Well consider this:

From the SD game to the NE game, he completed 54% of his passes for over 9 yards per attempt during the four game stretch. That was throwing deep passes a majority of the time. You think he can't up the completion rate by a couple of percentage points with some swing passes and keep the yards per attempt around 7? Seriously?

I have to admit some idiocy. I looked at the two games Tebow regressed and started questioning how good he was. Gee, a young QB has a couple of clunkers? OMG, that has NEVER happened before. Outside of about every single freaking QB in history.

I'd rather have Rogers as my QB, but I'm not bothered by him at all as the future QB of this team.

[BYU 14]

Nice analysis Troy

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Rick Reilly is an ass most of the time. He's the broken clock and he makes the right call on Tebow.

Pretty good description of the situation afaic.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by Mustang

just because I want the other 5 Million people to shut the f up.

I'm going to miss Pumpy posting Tebow on his Facebook, that's far more important than how many people are irritating you.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Senator

This made me crack up. My 5 year old son walked by the TV a couple of weeks ago during an NFL Buck game and said, "I don't like how that guy talks," and I said, "who, Joe Buck?", and he said, "Yeah, he talks like a robot."

You've taught him well.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

If, after reading this article, you say you hate Tim Tebow, you may need to take a step back and ask yourself, "why?"

Believing in Tim Tebow - ESPN

Saw this earlier in the week. I don't get the hate for him. Bash ESPN, Fox, or all the sports outlets for giving him too much attention. But he sounds like an incredible guy who does a lot of good for people. I don't get why anyone would wish him bad or hate on him. I don't care about the religion stuff, I just think hating someone like that says something about yourself.

As for his play, I don't know how much more people could expect. It's his 2nd year in the league, his first season seeing major playing time. He wasn't close to their starter in training camp and didn't get an offseason as the #1 guy.

I think he deserves a shot to show what he can do next year. A chance to go through an offseason as the #1, get the reps in training camp, and have an offseason where they can tailor an offense even more to his style. For how poorly he has performed at times, no one points out that they have no talent on that team. The offensive line is poor, the wide receivers are terrible, and the running backs are average at best. It's one of the worst supporting casts any QB in the league has. He isn't an elite QB or anything, but not many guys could perform well with that offense. It's utter shit.

[miked]

You know what may help his development? Not running 90% of the time on 1st down, 80% of the time on 2nd down, and then putting him in 3rd and long.

[Dutch]

Not a hater, but this was too funny. People are so wrong!

[miami_fan]

The similarities between this thread and the Michael Vick threads circa 2000-2004 are amazing. See the post below. Replace "Tebow" with "Vick", switch conferences and this this could have been written today.

I think what pisses me off most about Vick, and me and my brother have had this conversation a couple times, is the freaking hype he gets from the annoucers. They just DON'T SHUT UP about him. The guy can go 10 for 20 with 130 yards passing and 80 yards rushing and he is a god. But 8-10 QB's every week throw for more yards then he throws/rushs for.
He sucks at reading defenses, he sucks at checking multiple targets, and his accurcey is seriously suspect. But i will admit he is amazing to watch sometimes, so from a marketing prospective i can see why Atlanta resigned him.

If the anaylists/annoucers would stop trying to enshrine him in the hall of fame every week i'd start pulling for him more. Peyton deserves the hype, Mcnabb deserves the hype, Vick doesn't... yet.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

yeah, he's not a finished product. by my eyes the thing he's missing is confidence. well, that and a supporting cast.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

As for his play, I don't know how much more people could expect. It's his 2nd year in the league, his first season seeing major playing time. He wasn't close to their starter in training camp and didn't get an offseason as the #1 guy.

I think he deserves a shot to show what he can do next year. A chance to go through an offseason as the #1, get the reps in training camp, and have an offseason where they can tailor an offense even more to his style. For how poorly he has performed at times, no one points out that they have no talent on that team. The offensive line is poor, the wide receivers are terrible, and the running backs are average at best. It's one of the worst supporting casts any QB in the league has. He isn't an elite QB or anything, but not many guys could perform well with that offense. It's utter shit.

This is (one of) the angles I don't quite get. There are many, many QBs that haven't gotten the chance Tebow has. He's already been given an amazing opportunity strictly based on his fame, religion, kindness, other complicated social/cultural factors (it's not just "race", but there's something more complicated going on there where race is a factor). How many former college QBs get to start that many games, perform terribly, and still have people clamoring for him to have a "real chance" with an offseason as the #1 QB? Guys who do get a few years are usually considered big NFL prospects out of college. Tebow was not (IMO, getting drafted 3-4 rounds too early by a guy who was fired shortly thereafter didn't transform him into some huge prospect). If it wasn't for these external "it" factors that have nothing to do with playing football, Tebow would be a 3rd string or practice squad QB who would be developing, and maybe, if he could improve over 3-4 years, he might get a spot when there's an injury situation somewhere (and that's a "shot", not a full offseason as the #1 guy just to see how good he is, I mean, there's hundreds of QBs who would kill for, but would never get that kind of "shot".), or more practically, he could convert to another position.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by molson

This is (one of) the angles I don't quite get. There are many, many QBs that haven't gotten the chance Tebow has. He's already been given an amazing opportunity strictly based on his fame, religion, kindness, other complicated social/cultural factors (it's not just "race", but there's something more complicated going on there where race is a factor). How many former college QBs get to start that many games, perform terribly, and still have people clamoring for him to have a "real chance" with an offseason as the #1 QB? Guys who do get a few years are usually considered big NFL prospects out of college. Tebow was not (IMO, getting drafted 3-4 rounds too early by a guy who was fired shortly thereafter didn't transform him into some huge prospect). If it wasn't for these external "it" factors that have nothing to do with playing football, Tebow would be a 3rd string or practice squad QB who would be developing, and maybe, if he could improve over 3-4 years, he might get a spot when there's an injury situation somewhere (and that's a "shot", not a full offseason as the #1 guy just to see how good he is", I mean, there's hundreds of QBs who would kill for, but would never get that kind of "shot".), or more practically, he could convert to another position.

exactly. not year the excuses will only change to "they didn't believe in him", "they didn't build the offense around him", "they didn't give him any talent to work with"

[Rizon]

Teblow!

[CrimsonFox]

Okay EF I didn't see anyone else post this:

Tebow + Bowie = Tebowie!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

He's already been given an amazing opportunity strictly based on his fame, religion, kindness, other complicated social/cultural factors

Couldn't have had anything to do with him ranking second in NCAA history in passing efficiency or being the all-time SEC leader in completion percentage and TD:INT ratio; i.e. a proven ability to do some rather significant things on the field. And I'm sure that all of those things you mention are why Dungy called him a "top ten pick" or Gruden said he could "revolutionize" pro football.

Couldn't have anything to do with anything football related, uh-uh.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Couldn't have had anything to do with him ranking second in NCAA history in passing efficiency or being the all-time SEC leader in completion percentage and TD:INT ratio; i.e. a proven ability to do some rather significant things on the field. And I'm sure that all of those things you mention are why Dungy called him a "top ten pick" or Gruden said he could "revolutionize" pro football.

Couldn't have anything to do with anything football related, uh-uh.

Revolutionize what? The guy has a problem completing a five-yard crossing route to wide open receivers with any consistency. I've watched him throw it over, behind, at the feet and five yards away from guys on one of the simplest throws to make.

Even running a non-conventional offense, he's going to have to be able to make simple throws on a more consistent basis. Tebow completed nine throws against the Patriots, six of them to Thomas, he has to get more comfortable throwing to someone other than his first read. Defenses will do exactly what the Patriots did on Saturday. Keep Thomas in front of them, be disciplined and make Tebow beat them by marching down the field drive after drive. Which Tebow simply can't do at this point in his career and I'm not sure he'll ever be able to do.

He's a great kid with a big heart who has fun playing the game. But I think he's on the field simply because of media pressures and I still think he's a developmental QB who has a long way to go before he's consistent, even in an offense suited to his talents.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Couldn't have had anything to do with him ranking second in NCAA history in passing efficiency or being the all-time SEC leader in completion percentage and TD:INT ratio; i.e. a proven ability to do some rather significant things on the field. And I'm sure that all of those things you mention are why Dungy called him a "top ten pick" or Gruden said he could "revolutionize" pro football.

Couldn't have anything to do with anything football related, uh-uh.

There were plenty of Heisman trophy winners who weren't even drafted, or who were drafted very late. Tebow was a great running back in college. Not many considered him a great, NFL-caliber passer, or a huge NFL prospect. But he's been hyped more than guys who actually were those things, who were actually taken #1. He's been hyped more than Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, or JeMarcus Russell coming out school, and in his first two seasons.

Let's just look at performance this season. Dalton, Yates, and especially Newton, as rookies, were better than Tebow. They didn't have "a full offseason as the #1 guy". Yet Tebow, even before he became the starter, blew away those guys in hype, at a margin of a million to 1. That margin is not based on anything football related.

Edit: I saw one of the ESPN commentators talking about Alex Smith's TD run, he said "if that was Tim Tebow making that run, we'd have to do an hour special on it". A little exaggeration maybe, but not much.

[BillJasper]

Tim Tebow averaged 5.1 yards per touch in the regular season.

271 attempts for 1,729 passing yards.
33 sacks for negative 225 yards.
122 rushes for 660 yards.

He had 2,164 total yards in 11 starts. Can a modern NFL team survive long term getting less than 200 totals yards per game from their pass offense?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

This is (one of) the angles I don't quite get. There are many, many QBs that haven't gotten the chance Tebow has. He's already been given an amazing opportunity strictly based on his fame, religion, kindness, other complicated social/cultural factors (it's not just "race", but there's something more complicated going on there where race is a factor). How many former college QBs get to start that many games, perform terribly, and still have people clamoring for him to have a "real chance" with an offseason as the #1 QB? Guys who do get a few years are usually considered big NFL prospects out of college. Tebow was not (IMO, getting drafted 3-4 rounds too early by a guy who was fired shortly thereafter didn't transform him into some huge prospect). If it wasn't for these external "it" factors that have nothing to do with playing football, Tebow would be a 3rd string or practice squad QB who would be developing, and maybe, if he could improve over 3-4 years, he might get a spot when there's an injury situation somewhere (and that's a "shot", not a full offseason as the #1 guy just to see how good he is, I mean, there's hundreds of QBs who would kill for, but would never get that kind of "shot".), or more practically, he could convert to another position.

He has started in 16 games in his NFL career. That's less than Andy Dalton, Sam Bradford, and Josh Freeman. Yet when Dalton bombed out in the playoffs, no one said anything except he'll get better. Same goes for Bradford and Freeman on their disappointing seasons.

I guess I'm wondering why he's treated differently than them. Why is it assumed he will not get better at reading a defense or throwing more accurately? Mind you that those guys were the de facto #1 QBs going into the season and took the majority of snaps in training camp and preseason. Tebow did not have that luxury.

With all that said, he took over a 1-4 team and not only helped them make the playoffs, but won them a game. Mind you that this is with the worst offensive supporting cast in football and a mediocre defense.

I don't think he'll be a great NFL QB. I mentioned before I think he'll ultimately be a good backup QB in the league. But I'd still take him over 5-10 other starters in this league. He plays an unorthodox game where he doesn't turn it over and runs a lot. He's more of a game manager type than anything else. That means his stats are not going to blow you away.

If the Broncos have a chance to bring in an elite QB, they should go for it. But I don't see why they wouldn't ride out the Tebow wave while they improve a horrific roster. I'd like to see what Tebow can do with a semi-decent supporting cast. But he doesn't get that pass like Bradford does for some reason.