Chris Benoit found dead....

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by molson

There's a great documentary, Heroes of World Class, that covers the rise and fall of WCCW (The Von Erichs' wrestling promotion in Dallas). WCCW, was unfortunately, something of a precursor to the problems the WWE has faced the last few years (drugs, premature deaths). It's on Netflix.

Damnit, I'm with the other guys. Stop posting here and arguing with me.

Go write up a new WCCW show! We need to lift the Von Erich curse!

[Neon_Chaos]

dola dola

Booker T with his comments on a video interview. Comments about how the media is going to put a spin on the story.

hxxp://www.khou.com/video/news-index.html?nvid=154648

[Maple Leafs]

Another good article, this one about the WWE's steroid policy:
http://www.nysun.com/article/57511

[SirFozzie]

Anyone see Bill O'Rly? A couple boards that I hang out at stated that O'Rly covered the situation and pretty much blamed the murders.. no not on steroids, or wrestling.. but on Nancy.

[Desmond]

Hey Fozzie, have you been able to get on the Death Valley Driver board at all today? I havn't been able to log on since 6am this morning.

Edit: nm, it's working now.

[Ksyrup]

McMahon was supposedly on a morning show today.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Anyone see Bill O'Rly? A couple boards that I hang out at stated that O'Rly covered the situation and pretty much blamed the murders.. no not on steroids, or wrestling.. but on Nancy.

Didn't see it, but apparently his line of thinking was "She knew he was violent, she had said it was going to end badly, why didn't she get her and the child out of there?"

It's not a completely unfair question, although I can see how people would find it pretty tasteless right now.

[Ksyrup]

If a big part of why this occurred was the stress of raising a mentally and physically challenged child, I cannot for the life of me understand why someone with that kind of money didn't bring in a nanny or someone who understands the problems associated with what this kid was going through to help out. He has to be on the road for his job, OK, but why were the only alternatives that she either deal with it herself or he scale back from his job? That's one of the number of things that don't make sense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Short blurb from the New York Times with some comments from Kevin Sullivan (Nancy's ex) and Chris Nowinski.

I saw that earlier & meant to mention that I had no idea Nowinski did a book on head injuries & athletes. I knew he was a smart guy, Harvard alum and all, just didn't have a clue that's what he was doing now.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If a big part of why this occurred was the stress of raising a mentally and physically challenged child, I cannot for the life of me understand why someone with that kind of money didn't bring in a nanny or someone who understands the problems associated with what this kid was going through to help out. He has to be on the road for his job, OK, but why were the only alternatives that she either deal with it herself or he scale back from his job? That's one of the number of things that don't make sense.

Yeah, I don't get that either. Fragile X is the most common cause of inherited mental retardation and Autism, but people who have money seem to cope just fine by paying for excellent schooling, nannies, etc. It's always the people in lower socioeconomic groups that amaze me with their capacity to handle these demanding children with minimal support. By the way, most kids with Fragile X do have hypotonia but are also usually obese and HGH is not a commonly prescribed medication for kids with Fragile X.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I saw that earlier & meant to mention that I had no idea Nowinski did a book on head injuries & athletes. I knew he was a smart guy, Harvard alum and all, just didn't have a clue that's what he was doing now.

Yes, the NYTimes has done several stories in the past year on the concussion-cognitive deterioration link, all of them quoting Nowinski...

[molson]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Didn't see it, but apparently his line of thinking was "She knew he was violent, she had said it was going to end badly, why didn't she get her and the child out of there?"

It's not a completely unfair question, although I can see how people would find it pretty tasteless right now.

I didn't see it, and don't know what his tone was, but it's a fair disucssion. Domestic violence victims who stay with their abusers is the most frustrating part of my job, it's something I deal with on a weekly basis.

I understand the various reasons for it (psychological, financial, the children), but when I talk to them, I still don't get it. Not at all.

It's not at all uncommon for a state to prosecute a domestic violence case where the defense calls the victim (who denies everything) as a witness. It's just a bizzarre scene, seeing defendant & victim v. state.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Link to comments from RVD, Victoria, and Matt Hardy
http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=25176&p=1

Link to (shorter) comments from Lex Luger & Jillian Hall
http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=25179&p=1

Link to comments from Jim Ross
http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=25177&p=1

Link to comments from Magnum T.A./Terry Allen
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/met...oitmagnum.html

[molson]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Hey buddy, too many posts in this thread, and not enough in the Dynasty Forum. Get back to your hole, and get me some more WCCW Dynasty!

Yes sir......

The updates are mostly going to be put up Thursday-Sunday for the time being, so I should be back tonight.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Didn't see it, but apparently his line of thinking was "She knew he was violent, she had said it was going to end badly, why didn't she get her and the child out of there?"

It's not a completely unfair question, although I can see how people would find it pretty tasteless right now.

Blaming the victim in a domestic violence incident is always unfair.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Blaming the victim in a domestic violence incident is always unfair.

While we haven't agreed much in this thread, I will completely agree with this comment. Damage to domestic violence victims is never just physical and blaming them is like saying a rape victim was asking for it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/met...enoitraid.html

DEA, sheriff's officials raid office of Benoit doctor

The Associated Press
Published on: 06/28/07

Federal drug agents and sheriff's officials raided the office of pro wrestler Chris Benoit's personal physician in search of records and other items in a warrant.

Agent Chuvalo Truesdell, a spokesman for the Drug Enforcement Administration in Atlanta, said today that the raid at Dr. Phil Astin's office in Carrollton, in West Georgia, began last night and concluded early this morning.

Truesdell said a search warrant obtained by the Fayette County Sheriff's Department in connection with the Benoit investigation was executed there.

He said records and other items were being sought, but he said he could not immediately be more specific. Truesdell also was unable to say what was seized. No arrests were made.

Astin did not return repeated calls to his cell phone from The Associated Press today.

Benoit had been under the care of Astin, a longtime friend, for treatment of low testosterone levels. Astin said yesterday the condition likely originated from previous steroid use.

Astin prescribed testosterone for Benoit in the past but would not say what, if any, medications he prescribed when Benoit visited his office on Friday.
...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Drug raids carried out on Benoit's physician.....

Drug Agents Raid Offices of Pro Wrestler Chris Benoit's Personal Physician
Thursday, June 28, 2007


State and federal drug agents staged a late-night raid of the offices of pro wrestler Chris Benoit's personal physician and met with the district attorney investigating the Benoit murder-suicide on Thursday morning to see if any charges should be filed.

The offices of Dr. Phil Astin were raided just before midnight Wednesday, officials said. Astin was at his office at the time of the raid.

Officials said the raid stemmed from the investigation into drugs found in the Benoit home after the bodies of the pro wrestler and his wife, Nancy, and 7-year-old son, Daniel, were found Monday afternoon, Capt. Mike Pruitt said.

Investigators took computers and medical records from Astin's office.

Astin on Wednesday told the Associated Press that he had prescribed testosterone for Benoit. Investigators said there were autographed photos of Benoit and other wrestlers in Astin's office.

Fayette County District Attorney Scott Allard would not comment on the raids but said he had met with local drug task force investigators and the Drug Enforcement Agency.

Meanwhile, prosecutors in upstate New York who have been investigating the deliveries Benoit received from Signature Pharmacy and MedXLife.com, which sold steroids, human growth hormone and testosterone on the Internet.

Terence Kindlon, lawyer for MedXLife co-owner Dr. Gary Brandwein, denied allegations that his client's company sold steroids to Benoit. Brandwein has pleaded not guilty to six counts in New York state court related to the criminal sale of a controlled substance. He was accused of signing and sending prescriptions without ever seeing patients.

McDevitt said the drugs found in Benoit's house were legitimately prescribed. "There's no question, none of these drugs are out there, none of these drugs came from Internet pharmacies," he said.

In addition to causing paranoia and explosive outbursts, steroids can also contribute to deep depression, according to experts.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by BrianD

While we haven't agreed much in this thread, I will completely agree with this comment. Damage to domestic violence victims is never just physical and blaming them is like saying a rape victim was asking for it.

I didn't read any comment here that sounded like blaming her for what happened. What I read was frustration about the fact that victims of domestic abuse who are later murdred don't just get the hell out to begin with, or when they aren't killed, end up recanting their stories. That doesn't mean this woman or any other victim deserves what they get when that happens, but it is certainly unfortunate and frustrating that these deaths, like many others, are preventable.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

If a big part of why this occurred was the stress of raising a mentally and physically challenged child, I cannot for the life of me understand why someone with that kind of money didn't bring in a nanny or someone who understands the problems associated with what this kid was going through to help out. He has to be on the road for his job, OK, but why were the only alternatives that she either deal with it herself or he scale back from his job? That's one of the number of things that don't make sense.

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. He had to be making somewhere between 200-300K per year as a low estimate, and he didn't want to spring for a full time nanny? Just makes no sense whatsoever. These conditions are hell for families, but he did have the resources to where he could have at least gotten their child some extra help.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I didn't read any comment here that sounded like blaming her for what happened. What I read was frustration about the fact that victims of domestic abuse who are later murdred don't just get the hell out to begin with, or when they aren't killed, end up recanting their stories. That doesn't mean this woman or any other victim deserves what they get when that happens, but it is certainly unfortunate and frustrating that these deaths, like many others, are preventable.

It was pretty much just the O'Riley comments that sounded that way, nothing specific from anyone around here. Abuse victims are victims in more ways than one and it is sad that they end up attaching themselves to their abusers in such a detrimental way.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing. He had to be making somewhere between 200-300K per year as a low estimate, and he didn't want to spring for a full time nanny? Just makes no sense whatsoever. These conditions are hell for families, but he did have the resources to where he could have at least gotten their child some extra help.

I hope it wasn't a situation where it threatened his masculinity to ask for help. Some people think asking for help is a big sign of weakness. They are wrong.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Christ, this just keeps getting weirder.........

Web Time Stamps Indicate Benoit Death Reported About 14 Hours Before Police Found Bodies
Thursday, June 28, 2007

By Blane Bachelor


An anonymous user operating a computer traced to Stamford, Conn. — home to World Wrestling Entertainment — posted an entry to pro wrestler Chris Benoit's biography on Wikipedia.org announcing the death of his wife Nancy about 14 hours before police in suburban Atlanta said they found her body along with her husband's and that of their 7-year-old son, FOXNews.com has learned.

Employees at Wikipedia.com said the posting went live on their site on Monday at 12:01 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Police, however, said they found the bodies Monday at 2:30 p.m. EDT.

Wikipedia.org's computers are set to record Standard and Universal Time, a spokesman told FOXNews.com.

The posting reads: “Chris Benoit was replaced by [[Johnny Nitro]] for the ECW Championship match at Vengeance, as Benoit was not there due to personal issues, stemming from the death of his wife Nancy.”

The posting was apparently made in reference to Benoit's scheduled appearance on Sunday night at an Extreme Championship Wrestling event in Texas, with the last phrase noted in red to indicate an edit made to the original entry.

An employee from Wikipedia.org told FOXNews.com that he called and left a message with investigative authorities in Fayetteville, Ga., at around 11 a.m. EDT on Tuesday, after the posting was brought to the attention of the St. Petersburg, Fla.-based Web site.

“I chat with other editors on IRC -- Internet relay chat -- and somebody pointed it out to me on a relay chat and that it came from a Stamford connection, and that it took place at midnight Eastern Standard Time on Monday morning,” said Wikipedia.org volunteer coordinator Cary Bass. “I called and left a message with the police department.”

The computer-generated time and date stamp of the Benoit entry are listed as 4:01, 25 June 2007. Wikipedia.org lists its entries according to Universal Time, also known as Greenwich Mean Time.

A message left by FOXNews.com with Lt. Tommy Pope of the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department was not immediately returned.

Investigators so far have ruled the Benoit killings as a double homicide-suicide.

Wikipedia.org claims to be one of the largest reference Web sites, and is written collaboratively by users from around the world. Approved users can make submissions and change entries that are posted on the site almost immediately. Bass said the site is constantly monitored to correct inaccuracies.

Bass said when there is a high-profile case, such as the Benoit killlings, Wikipedia.org limits postings to registered users, which is now indicated at the top of the Benoit entry. According to the listed history on the Benoit entry, the computer used to post the 12:01 a.m. entry had a Stamford, Conn., Internet Protocol — or IP — address, a numeric designation that is assigned to every computer with an Internet connection, and that same address has been used to post about a dozen other messages on the site, dating back to May 16, 2007.

FOXNews.com also has learned, through widely posted Web reports, that former pro wrestler Sherri Martel, who was found dead on June 15, was linked to former wrestler Kevin Sullivan — ex-husband of Nancy Benoit.

Martel, who had a reputation as one of the top managers in pro wrestling, was found dead at her mother’s home in near Birmingham, Ala., on June 15. She was 49.

Investigators, who have not yet determined Martel's cause of death, say foul play is not suspected but that Martel did not die of natural causes.

[SirFozzie]

Oh cripes, not this crap.

This was a garden variety vandal who had previously added this to a Ron Artest article.

'''Shortly after this, Artest was accused of raping one of the bikini-clad models, which he was found guilty of, but was released on bail. He was accused of raping another one of the models after this but he was found not guilty."

obviously a troll, who was sadly prophetic for once

[st.cronin]

So somebody took a wild guess that his wife had died, and was correct? Color me skeptical.

[Edward64]

In situations with adults, there is some shared responsibility in the outcome. This is not to say Nancy deserved to die because she did not act, but she does have some accountability.

What always chokes me up are the children ... the true innocents.

I cannot imagine a rage, disease, illness where you kill children .. especially your own children.

I hope heaven has a special place for these kids.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

So somebody took a wild guess that his wife had died, and was correct? Color me skeptical.

Not a wild guess.. they were putting what they thought were deliberately false information (I'm an admin over there, I have to deal with one user who's had over 500 accounts and IP's blocked, so I'm used to it.).. and unfortunately, they were right, though they didn't know it.

Since WP is used by a lot of folks, a lot of urban legends have started because of hoax information.. like the Ron Artest information I posted above

[molson]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

So somebody took a wild guess that his wife had died, and was correct? Color me skeptical.

The wiki thing was noticed immediately over at the DVD board, but I thought it had been explained away somehow. I think that thread is blown up now.

[Maple Leafs]

The whole wiki things would have a lot more legs if the anonymous user with the Stanford IP tag was either a new editor, or had contributed any breakings news about wrestling previously. As it stands, it sounds a lot more like a coincidence than some big cover up. I mean, what's the suggestion here -- that the WWE knew about the deaths and posted about them on wiki even as police were covering it up? Whu?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

(I'm an admin over there, I have to deal with one user who's had over 500 accounts and IP's blocked, so I'm used to it.)

Talk about someone who doesn't have a life...(not you, the guy who keeps trying to vandalize Wikipedia ).

[SirFozzie]

heh.

The other guy thinks it's a game at this point, he's using open proxies to try to tweak folks.

And I'm not quite sure about me having a life either

[Fidatelo]

Am I the only one that reads that story about the wiki entry, then gets to the bottom where they reference Kevin Sullivan and starts to think "are they proposing that these deaths are linked, with Sullivan being a suspect?"?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Am I the only one that reads that story about the wiki entry, then gets to the bottom where they reference Kevin Sullivan and starts to think "are they proposing that these deaths are linked, with Sullivan being a suspect?"?

No, you are not alone in that thought.

I haven't the faintest where the heck that last bit comes from. Although it cites something like widespread internet reports, I don't recall seeing that (a link between Sullivan & Martel) anywhere I've surfed until they mentioned it in this article.

[SackAttack]

Just a thought. Let's say, somehow, that the insinuation about Sullivan here is actually the case.

Wouldn't that put the text messages into a whole 'nother context? Dude finds their cell phones after doing the deed, sends messages to people in the cell's phonebook (seems reasonable that co-workers might be in there in a travel-centered business), and leaves the police to connect the dots?

It at least makes the text messages make more sense to me. I can't figure out why Benoit would send those messages if he was offing himself; the bodies would have been discovered eventually.

[Maple Leafs]

The problem with the "somebody else killed them" concept is that Benoit was the last to die. He was home that weekend -- what was he doing while someone else killed his wife and kid. Wrestling may be fake, but I'm pretty sure Chris Benoit could have handled Kevin Sullivan in a shootfight.

[st.cronin]

I don't know what the substance of the text messages is, but I can think of any number of plausible reasons for Benoit to have sent them. Suicide note, attempted alibi, break from reality, etc.

[MikeVic]

The wiki thing is weird. I think it's a coincidence.

Don't they take fingerprints of the cell phone? I guess an outside killer could still put Benoit's prints on it... I highly doubt Kevin Sullivan would go to the trouble of staging all this, and killing Sherri too??

[SackAttack]

Not saying it's a likely scenario, only that if that scenario is in fact what happened, the text messages make more sense to me than they did before.

But the whole thing is just bizarre to begin with.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Link to comments from Joanie Laurer (aka Chyna) appearing on Jim Rome Show.
http://pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=25192&p=1

Gotta love this quote from the recap
After Laurer left the studio, Rome acknowledged that she seemed a little disturbed and that she pretty much contradicted herself throughout the interview.

So in other words it sounded pretty much like most other interviews Laurer has done anywhere over the past several years. She's like the Ultimate Warrior's female alter ego.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't know what the substance of the text messages is, but I can think of any number of plausible reasons for Benoit to have sent them. Suicide note, attempted alibi, break from reality, etc.

I think it was his attempt at a suicide note, of sorts. EF27 probably knows better than anyone here, but the suicide experts I've listened to all say that most people that commit suicide leave some sort of note or something behind and they want to make sure they're discovered. I think the text messages make sense in that regard.

One problem I see from media and a lot of message boards is people try to apply sanity to insane acts. Benoit wasn't thinking rationally when he did this, so its nearly impossible to apply rational thought to what happened.

[molson]

I feel bad for Kevin Sullivan that he'll apparently now always be the target of conspiracy theories (even if they're toungue-in-cheek)

All the guy did make Benoit look like a star in his first high-profile feud, loses his wife to the guy, and THEN books him to win the world title.

[molson]

Meltzer is teasing some new info in Monday's wrestling observer. My guess is that will shed some insight into Benoit's decline over the last year, including taking 4 months off last year for depression:

"Monday's issue is done. It will be about the Benoit case. There will be a tremendous amount in there that I don't believe has been reported anywhere else. I believe that while in the end, there is no way to not be outraged at the situation, nor any valid excuse whatsoever, you will see what is a very complex, sad and horrifying story. I don't believe it's a roid rage story. I don't rule out steroids being one of numerous aspects that could have played a part in the story. There were numerous stresses, personal, professional, and Chris had a dark side."

[saldana]

i call bull shit on the wiki thing....as soon as the first story broke around 5ish on monday, and it was only being reported by wrestling outlets, i checked wiki, and it had already been updated with chris being reported dead...i didnt use it as a reference in the thread, because wiki can be about as reliable as the wrestling sites, and people were asking for a legitimate source...there wasnt shit on there about his wife and son.

[sabotai]

EDIT: nm, those were GMT, not Eastern. Doh. (I see that it actually is there and it was put there at 12:01am and removed at 12:48am)

[molson]

There's no question the wiki edits were made (you could see them in the edit history), but the same person, I've heard, also "reported" that Chavo Guerrero doesn't have a penis. If 500 fake wrestling items are posted on wiki every day, odds are at least one is going to turn out half-right.

[Ksyrup]

Not to mention, if this person really does have a connection to WWE, then he/she might have at least had knowledge of what Benoit told people, which was that his wife and kid were ill with food poisoning, at the hospital, and that his wife was throwing up. Someone could have easily decided, based on that info, to plant a false entry taking that information (at the time, assumed to be true) and stretching it to fit a lie. There's no mention of the manner of death, so it could just as easily be referencing the excuse Benoit gave WWE as it could the true facts, which it appears no one knew.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by molson

There's no question the wiki edits were made (you could see them in the edit history), but the same person, I've heard, also "reported" that Chavo Guerrero doesn't have a penis. If 500 fake wrestling items are posted on wiki every day, odds are at least one is going to turn out half-right.

That's really rude to imply that Chavo Guerrero only has half a penis.

[Ksyrup]

So the guy who edited the Wiki page admitted it and said it was a terrible coincidence. Time to move on.

[Ksyrup]

This is somewhat interesting:

Meanwhile, the parents of Nancy Benoit were contesting a widely-reported aspect of the case -- that Daniel Benoit had an inherted genetic developmental disability.

On Friday, Nancy Benoit's parents said through their attorney that they were unaware that their grandson had a rare medical condition called Fragile X Syndrome, an inherited form of mental retardation often accompanied by autism.

On Thursday, Jerry McDevitt, an attorney for Chris Benoit's employer, World Wrestling Entertainment, said Daniel Benoit had the condition, and added that Chris and Nancy Benoit had argued over whether he should stay home more to take care of their son.

But Atlanta-based lawyer Richard Decker, who represents Paul and Maureen Toffoloni, told ESPN.com's Elizabeth Merrill that the grandparents babysat often for Daniel and noticed no medical issues.

"To them, he's always been a normal, healthy, happy child with no signs of illness," Decker said. "And that's not from a distance. That's from day-to-day contact.




EF27, is it possible he had this and that there were no outward signs? I just assumed he was open about his kid's issues, like Boomer Esiason and Dan Marino, but I guess it sounds like to nearly everyone, this kid was normal. If it's true that he had this condition and they even kept it from their relatives...then I have to surmise that they went out of their way to keep it from being public, which is likely why they argued over care and didn't consider bringing in outside help. Very odd. What was the motivation? A big, tough guy like Benoit can't have a physically or mentally disabled child?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is somewhat interesting:

Meanwhile, the parents of Nancy Benoit were contesting a widely-reported aspect of the case -- that Daniel Benoit had an inherted genetic developmental disability.

On Friday, Nancy Benoit's parents said through their attorney that they were unaware that their grandson had a rare medical condition called Fragile X Syndrome, an inherited form of mental retardation often accompanied by autism.

On Thursday, Jerry McDevitt, an attorney for Chris Benoit's employer, World Wrestling Entertainment, said Daniel Benoit had the condition, and added that Chris and Nancy Benoit had argued over whether he should stay home more to take care of their son.

But Atlanta-based lawyer Richard Decker, who represents Paul and Maureen Toffoloni, told ESPN.com's Elizabeth Merrill that the grandparents babysat often for Daniel and noticed no medical issues.

"To them, he's always been a normal, healthy, happy child with no signs of illness," Decker said. "And that's not from a distance. That's from day-to-day contact.




EF27, is it possible he had this and that there were no outward signs? I just assumed he was open about his kid's issues, like Boomer Esiason and Dan Marino, but I guess it sounds like to nearly everyone, this kid was normal. If it's true that he had this condition and they even kept it from their relatives...then I have to surmise that they went out of their way to keep it from being public, which is likely why they argued over care and didn't consider bringing in outside help. Very odd. What was the motivation? A big, tough guy like Benoit can't have a physically or mentally disabled child?

Are steroids a treatment for the condition? Maybe they made up an illness and went on record with it to explain away any steroids found in the house, but they did not go public with it since it would be harder to keep the illness from being discovered as a fake in that situation.

(And, having just written that, I am now in the "nothing can suprise me about this story anymore" camp.)