Blu-ray/HD-DVD format war discussion thread.......

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I agree that those sales influence the numbers, but you can't discount that purchase just because it was a sale. Sales are created to move units. They're moving units to try to win the format war. I didn't see anyone commenting how the sales of the $99 HD-DVD players should be discounted as not full sales because they were clearance priced to significantly boost the number of stand-alone HD-DVD players. It would be just as silly to state that 150-180K of the HD-DVD units don't count because they were sold at well under the suggested retail price.

Those sales aren't dirty pool nor are they inaccurate numbers. That's the price of doing business and beating out your competitor. You take the smaller profits now with the long term goal of winning the war and making lots of money in a year or two. Dismissing sales because they were sold at a reduced profit or break-even is a very weak stance.

I didn't dismiss the sales, I said they don't accurately show the market. With the BOGO deals and the fact that Walmart numbers aren't included you can't possibly quote 1.5-1 as an accurate reflection of the market.

It would take some major twisting of numbers and a leap of faith to say HDDVD is doing better than Blu-Ray, but the market is closer than the raw numbers suggest.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Pretty sure that was the founder of the site. The writer of this editorial is not the same person, though you are correct that it is the same website.

I think that article was written out of frustration more than anything else. This format war has gone on far longer than it ever should have gone.

Was it Bill that wrote the first one? I guess that wouldn't surprise me. I remember being very disappointed after reading that since it made the site nearly unreadable for me. I won't guess what kind of influence Bill's stance has on other editorials, but there is probably some.

I can understand the frustration that would create the article, but I think it is inappropriate for an editorialist to be asking for one company (or group) to step down just to end a format war which customers seem unwilling to decide. It makes sense to want the war to be over since consumers are better off in that situation, but repeated columns suggesting one competitor just walk away seems childish.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I didn't dismiss the sales, I said they don't accurately show the market. With the BOGO deals and the fact that Walmart numbers aren't included you can't possibly quote 1.5-1 as an accurate reflection of the market.

It would take some major twisting of numbers and a leap of faith to say HDDVD is doing better than Blu-Ray, but the market is closer than the raw numbers suggest.

If you take that stance, then the stand-alone players are much closer than the HD-DVD camp suggests (currently around a 180-200K difference in favor of HD-DVD). They can't possibly claim anywhere close to the lead they are claiming (using the dimished sales percentage logic that you present).

As far as I'm concerned, a sale is a sale. All of this bobbing and weaving over HD-DVD winning the stand-alone war vs. BR having a big lead when PS3's are included vs. more Blu-ray sales are due to BOGO sales is mostly spin and nothing more. As you said, Blu-ray is winning the overall battle at this point.

It should be noted that HD-DVD has received just as many BOGO sales during December as their competitor, yet they still failed to beat BR in any one week. Even when they were on level ground in that regard, HD-DVD still couldn't pull out a weekly win.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Was it Bill that wrote the first one? I guess that wouldn't surprise me. I remember being very disappointed after reading that since it made the site nearly unreadable for me. I won't guess what kind of influence Bill's stance has on other editorials, but there is probably some.

I can understand the frustration that would create the article, but I think it is inappropriate for an editorialist to be asking for one company (or group) to step down just to end a format war which customers seem unwilling to decide. It makes sense to want the war to be over since consumers are better off in that situation, but repeated columns suggesting one competitor just walk away seems childish.

Yes, Bill wrote the original article you were referring to.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If you take that stance, then the stand-alone players are much closer than the HD-DVD camp suggests (currently around a 180-200K difference in favor of HD-DVD). They can't possibly claim anywhere close to the lead they are claiming (using the dimished sales percentage logic that you present).

I really wonder why I bother, but whatever, here goes.

I've ready my 2 posts and your responses over and over and I don't understand what you're trying to argue. Does Blu-Ray have a major retailer who's numbers aren't included in stand-alone sales? Are HDDVD players being given away if you buy a movie?

The reason the numbers are closer than what is being quoted is Walmart numbers are not factored in at all. Also, Sony over the past few months, especially over black friday, has been more aggressive than Toshiba in BOGO offers. That means movie sales numbers aren't accurate. It doesn't mean Sony is made up of evil people who are commiting crimes against humanity and Toshiba is made of people on a holy crusade to rid the planet of all things bad. I'm not spinning anything in anyone's favor, I'm simply trying to look past the spin.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As far as I'm concerned, a sale is a sale. All of this bobbing and weaving over HD-DVD winning the stand-alone war vs. BR having a big lead when PS3's are included vs. more Blu-ray sales are due to BOGO sales is mostly spin and nothing more. As you said, Blu-ray is winning the overall battle at this point.

The definition of sale is a transfer of property for money or credit. Giving something away is not a sale and is a way of getting a larger market share.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It should be noted that HD-DVD has received just as many BOGO sales during December as their competitor, yet they still failed to beat BR in any one week. Even when they were on level ground in that regard, HD-DVD still couldn't pull out a weekly win.

Ok, I don't care. I wasn't making a pro-HDDVD argument. All I said was the movie sales numbers are closer than they appear, but still favor Blu-Ray. Is that inaccurate?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I really wonder why I bother, but whatever, here goes.

I've ready my 2 posts and your responses over and over and I don't understand what you're trying to argue. Does Blu-Ray have a major retailer who's numbers aren't included in stand-alone sales? Are HDDVD players being given away if you buy a movie?

The reason the numbers are closer than what is being quoted is Walmart numbers are not factored in at all. Also, Sony over the past few months, especially over black friday, has been more aggressive than Toshiba in BOGO offers. That means movie sales numbers aren't accurate. It doesn't mean Sony is made up of evil people who are commiting crimes against humanity and Toshiba is made of people on a holy crusade to rid the planet of all things bad. I'm not spinning anything in anyone's favor, I'm simply trying to look past the spin.

Ok, I don't care. I wasn't making a pro-HDDVD argument. All I said was the movie sales numbers are closer than they appear, but still favor Blu-Ray. Is that inaccurate?

Couple of points (and I'm glad you bothered because you do make some good points):

1. The Wal-Mart factor. I've looked into this a bit more just because I didn't have a full understanding of it the last time it came up. I'll agree that it's not included in the NPD numbers. However, they are a neutral retailer in this format war. Are there firm numbers released by Wal-Mart that demonstrate the actual sales numbers? If they're coming out of the Toshiba or HD-DVD camp, I don't want to see them any more than the nutty stats that Sony or the BR camp puts out. Firm numbers from Wal-Mart would obviously clear this up in a big hurry. Also, in regards to Wal-Mart, are you saying only the movie sales aren't included or does that not include the $99 units that were sold either?

2. I still disagree that the sales numbers aren't accurate. BR sold X,XXX units and HD-DVD sold X,XXX units (Wal-Mart or no Wal-Mart). Selling the units at a discounted or package (i.e. BOGO) price does not change the number of units moved. It only changes the profit that was made per unit for each one sold. If you're arguing that Sony didn't make much off the increase in units moved due to BOGO and other deals, then I'd agree, but their purpose isn't profit in that case, which I think you'd also agree.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another BOGO deal at Amazon. Looks like Disney is the main target of the latest sale.........

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.htm...=bluraynews-20

[Marc Vaughan]

I've jumped fully into the BluRay camp since my son got a PS-3 at xmas ... I'm now in the 'wow that looks cool, must hire/buy another movie' camp fully

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I've jumped fully into the BluRay camp since my son got a PS-3 at xmas ... I'm now in the 'wow that looks cool, must hire/buy another movie' camp fully

I actually am a PS3 owner who hasn't bought a single BR movie at this point. Part of my waiting is that I plan on building a home theater in my basement in the coming months. Once I do that and put the PS3 in down there with the full speaker system, I'll likely have much more of a reason to purchase some BR movies.

[Daimyo]

BDA buys Warner exclusivity. War is over.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/04...ray-exclusive/

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

BDA buys Warner exclusivity. War is over.

[Daimyo]

I guess this is official now:

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsr...700383,00.html

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

BDA buys Warner exclusivity. War is over.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/04...ray-exclusive/

Obviously a huge development. With Warner now on Blu-ray, the format war is all but over. Most expect Paramount and Universal to break their exclusive contract with HD-DVD in 6 months or less. Additionally, it's a huge shift for the console market. The PS3 is going to get a boost in market share now that Blu-ray becomes the primary HD standard.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. The dominoes are already falling. HD-DVD has cancelled its entire event at the upcoming CES 2008. Early comments from analysts point to a major upsizing of Blu-ray shelf space in most retailers as soon as the end of January.

http://wesleytech.com/ces-hd-dvd-eve...ouncement/483/

[wade moore]

FWIW - I've never liked my console being my movie player. Even if I had a PS3 I'd want a stand-alone Blu-Ray player when it came time to go Hi Def DVD - I never have my game system on my main TV.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

An article from CNBC stating that HD-DVD will not be able to survive this decision. Surprising that an editorial this strong would come so quickly from a company owned by Universal, who is currently HD-DVD exclusive.............

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22508081

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

FWIW - I've never liked my console being my movie player. Even if I had a PS3 I'd want a stand-alone Blu-Ray player when it came time to go Hi Def DVD - I never have my game system on my main TV.

The PS3 is generally regarded as the best Blu-ray player available on the market outside of models over $1,000. The reason is that the PS3 gets much more regular firmware updates than the stand-alone counterparts. There's some features on the disc that aren't available to some stand-alone players that are already equipped on the PS3.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by wade moore

FWIW - I've never liked my console being my movie player. Even if I had a PS3 I'd want a stand-alone Blu-Ray player when it came time to go Hi Def DVD - I never have my game system on my main TV.

That's old man thinking! Convergence is coming, slowly but surely.

[stevew]

I wish there was backwards compatability in the 400 dollar PS3. I never bought a PS2, there are probably quite a few games I would buy that I didn't play. Not to mention the shitload of kids games available for like 10-15 bucks used. I'll still end up getting one eventually, primarily for hi-def movies, but probably not in the next 6 months. From what I've seen, and I haven't seen all the BD players, the stand alone units are just way too slow for start up and load. I know I could just buy a PS2 for 130 bucks, but I'm basically out of room in my entertainment center, and my component/HDMI TV hookups are pretty much maxed out.

[stevew]

Dola,

Oh, yeah, they totally need to get the multi-format discs out too, that's another hold up. I'm absolutely not going to be buying stuff on BD and DVD, just so they can watch it in the kids room.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

That's old man thinking! Convergence is coming, slowly but surely.

It's only old-man thinking if the player is actually any good (which it sounds like the PS3 is). For instance, the 360 is a terrible DVD player, so I still use my 8 year old Toshiba.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by stevew

Dola,

Oh, yeah, they totally need to get the multi-format discs out too, that's another hold up. I'm absolutely not going to be buying stuff on BD and DVD, just so they can watch it in the kids room.

Lack of hybrid discs
Region locked
Expensive
Immature standard (how many current BD players will be made obsolete by profile 1.1 and 2?)

Why did people claim BR was better technology again?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The PS3 is generally regarded as the best Blu-ray player available on the market outside of models over $1,000. The reason is that the PS3 gets much more regular firmware updates than the stand-alone counterparts. There's some features on the disc that aren't available to some stand-alone players that are already equipped on the PS3.

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

That's old man thinking! Convergence is coming, slowly but surely.

My expectation is that the stand-alones will quickly surpass the PS3 if BD really has won. For me personally (and I'm not trying to generalize for the rest of the country) I don't even have an HD TV besides the 19" I bought for my XBOX 360. I'm at least a year away from having a TV that I would even be considering a BD Player for.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like the cards may fall much quicker than anyone had anticipated. Paramount has already issued a press release stating that they can get out of the HD-DVD deal if they want to do so. Universal has also release a press release stating that they have no contractual obligation to remain a HD-DVD exclusive studio and can switch at any point. Couple that with the fact that Bill Gates made no mention of HD-DVD in his keynote speech (originally, the speech was supposed to be 30% about HD-DVD) and it appears that the format war may end rather quickly.

Bill over at the Digital Bits has also said that the Blu-ray studios may be planning an exchange program to ease tension among HD-DVD adopters. The studios would allow HD-DVD owner to exchange some of their HD-DVD movies for a Blu-ray version. No specific details have emerged at this point.

[BrianD]

For people in the Blu-Ray market, now might be a good time to jump on the BOGO sales. If HD-DVD falls out of the mix, one would think that Sony could shift out of their market-share sales mode and more into a profit mode. They probably won't raise prices, but there won't be as much incentive to offer great deals.

[Flasch186]

Microsoft just had their guy on CNBC and he did not seem very positive regarding HDDVD going forward, lots of "We'll see, we dont know, we hope, etc." I thought I heard something about Blu-ray and Microsoft but I missed that part.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Two more exclusive BR announcements at CES 2008. First, Apple has announced that Blu-ray will be the sole HD drive available for Apple computers. I'm not sure this is too much of a surprise as the last thing they'd want to do is support a Microsoft-backed format.

Also, the President of Phillips let the word slip at CES 2008 today that Target will be removing HD-DVD from its shelves and will exclusively stock Blu-ray players and movies.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/l...s-press-event/

President of Philips Consumer Electronics, Stewart Muller, announced that Target will go Blu-ray exclusive.

It does seem a little weird, an announcement like this not being announced by Sony first. However, Muller announced this at Philips' CES press conference. We will let you know directly when Target confirms this.

Along with this announcement he announced a new Blu-ray player, the BDP7200 Blu-ray player. We can't name any specifications as of right now.

We will have more on the Target going Blu-ray exclusive, as soon as it is released. And stay tuned for more news from CES 2008!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

Lack of hybrid discs
Region locked
Expensive
Immature standard (how many current BD players will be made obsolete by profile 1.1 and 2?)

Why did people claim BR was better technology again?

1. Blu-ray discs will have a playable movie file on each disc by the end of the year that can be used on any digital media outputs (video MP3 players, PC's, personal video players, etc.). It's not technically a hybrid disc, but it allows the user a lot of options. Also, movies can be streamed directly from the PS3 onto standard definition devices such as the PSP.

2. Blu-ray regions are set up much differently than DVD regions. Most of the west Asian countries and all of the American continents are in the same region. So U.S. users can watch Asian films without worrying about any region locks. Here's the 3 regions:

A North America, Central America, South America, Japan, Taiwan, North Korea, South Korea, Hong Kong, and Southeast Asia.

B Europe, Greenland, French territories, Middle East, Africa, Australia, and New Zealand.

C India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Mainland China, Pakistan, Russia, Central, and South Asia.

3. The average Blu-ray player is only $35 more than its HD-DVD counterpart. While the expense argument held up a year ago, it doesn't hold much water at this point.

4. Most BR players can be fully upgraded via firmware updates.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

3. The average Blu-ray player is only $35 more than its HD-DVD counterpart. While the expense argument held up a year ago, it doesn't hold much water at this point.

That's really not true, i mean it might be a fact from a staff meeting or something, but the gap for the average consumer, and the average unit sold is much greater. The entry level market is still at a 100-150 dollar price difference at any given time. I guess if you wanted the 1080p HDDVD, then it becomes closer, although I bet they primarily sell a ton more HDA-3's than HDA-30(5)'s

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

That's really not true, i mean it might be a fact from a staff meeting or something, but the gap for the average consumer, and the average unit sold is much greater. The entry level market is still at a 100-150 dollar price difference at any given time. I guess if you wanted the 1080p HDDVD, then it becomes closer, although I bet they primarily sell a ton more HDA-3's than HDA-30(5)'s

If you look at the bargain units, the HD-DVD baseline unit is $199 while the Blu-ray is $299. The comparison is somewhat futile at this point, as the HD-DVD player won't be much more than a upconverting DVD player by the end of this year. Also, the baseline Blu-ray player is expected to sell for $150-200 in retail stores by the end of this calendar year.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Also, the baseline Blu-ray player is expected to sell for $150-200 in retail stores by the end of this calendar year.

Was that expectation set before or after the recent HD-DVD news? Sony is still losing money on their players, right? Are they going to be able to make a profit on a $150-$200 unit?

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

1. Blu-ray discs will have a playable movie file on each disc by the end of the year that can be used on any digital media outputs (video MP3 players, PC's, personal video players, etc.). It's not technically a hybrid disc, but it allows the user a lot of options. Also, movies can be streamed directly from the PS3 onto standard definition devices such as the PSP.

I don't see how the first is near comparable to HDDVD hybrid discs to the average user. The latter is a benefit of a specific player/media device and not of BR in general.

2. Blu-ray regions are set up much differently than DVD regions. Most of the west Asian countries and all of the American continents are in the same region. So U.S. users can watch Asian films without worrying about any region locks. Here's the 3 regions:

No region coding >>> improved region coding

3. The average Blu-ray player is only $35 more than its HD-DVD counterpart. While the expense argument held up a year ago, it doesn't hold much water at this point.

I'll call BS on this one. Cheapest HDDVD player is regulary $190-200. The cheapest BR player I've seen is $300. You can get a very good HDDVD player for $250-300. I don't think there are any comparable BR players for under $500.

4. Most BR players can be fully upgraded via firmware updates.

The way you worded that, it is technically true since most BR players are PS3s and PS3s can be upgraded (although not the limited audio codec support which may start to suck with HD DTS is taking off). However, most of the people who purchased standalone BR players will simply be out of luck for profile 1.1 and 2.0.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Was that expectation set before or after the recent HD-DVD news? Sony is still losing money on their players, right? Are they going to be able to make a profit on a $150-$200 unit?

I don't think they have a choice. Winning the format war was the easy part. They still have to compete against all the other HD offerings (cable, VOB, IPTV, etc) as well as regular old SD DVDs. That would have been true for whichever format prevailed. If BR can't get players down to <$200 and media retailing for <$20 they will never go mainstream.

I think the hope is that now that the format war is decided more people will adopt BR and they can take advantage of that volume to lower production costs and get to a mass market price point quicker. If nothing else HDDVD proved that a significant market exists for <$200 standalone HD players. The various BOGO deals showed there is a market for reasonable priced HD media.

[rowech]

Getting closer and closer to buying a PS3 now. If XBOX developed a BR player for the 360, I'd buy it right now.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

I think the hope is that now that the format war is decided more people will adopt BR and they can take advantage of that volume to lower production costs and get to a mass market price point quicker. If nothing else HDDVD proved that a significant market exists for <$200 standalone HD players. The various BOGO deals showed there is a market for reasonable priced HD media.

Out of curiosity, why is it that Sony is losing money on the Blu-Ray format? Is it because they have lots of unused production capacity adding to overhead costs? If so, increased production should help. Or is it that this technology is still so new that all of the production components are still expensive? If this is the case, I would expect higher production to put them farther in the hole.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Out of curiosity, why is it that Sony is losing money on the Blu-Ray format? Is it because they have lots of unused production capacity adding to overhead costs? If so, increased production should help. Or is it that this technology is still so new that all of the production components are still expensive? If this is the case, I would expect higher production to put them farther in the hole.

No, it's not like the PS3 where the pieces cost more than what they sell it for. Sony is losing money on it right now because they are spending a ton on marketing and PR along with the unused capacity that you mentioned. On a strictly per unit basis, they're making money on each unit sold assuming they can win this war, resulting in ramped up production and lower PR costs because they aren't fighting a format war.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Paramount will announce possibly as soon as today that they are buying out of their exclusive contract due to a release clause that triggered when Warner went Blu-ray. Financial Times of London is reporting that Universal may follow suit as soon as the end of this week.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dc409afa-b...nclick_check=1

Paramount in HD DVD blow
By Matthew Garrahan and Mariko Sanchanta in Las Vegas

Published: January 8 2008 02:49

Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD after Warner Brothers’ recent backing of Sony’s Blu-ray technology, in a move that will sound the death knell of HD DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end.

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation, which makes the Shrek films, came out in support of HD DVD last summer, joining General Electric’s Universal Studios as the main backers of the Toshiba format.

However, Paramount, which is owned by Viacom, is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to switch sides in the event of Warner Bros backing Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation.

Paramount is set to have a bumper 2008 with several likely blockbusters, including the latest instalment in the Indiana Jones franchise.

Paramount joining the Blu-ray camp would leave HD DVD likely to suffer the same fate as Sony’s now obsolete Betamax video technology, which lost out to VHS in a similar format war in the 1980s.

Warners decision last week to throw its weight behind Blu-ray saw it join Walt Disney, 20th Century Fox and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer as backers of the Sony format.

The Warners move gives Blu-ray about 70 per cent of Hollywood’s output, although the format’s grip on film content will increase further when Paramount comes aboard.

It is unclear whether DreamWorks Animation has the same get-out clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp.

However, Paramount and DreamWorks have a close relationship, with Paramount distributing DreamWorks Animation films. The two companies also signed their HD DVD contracts at the same time. Meanwhile, Universal has declined to comment on its next-generation DVD plans since the Warners move.

Sir Howard Stringer, chief executive of Sony, on Monday held out an olive branch, saying the company would be “open to dialogue” with the HD DVD camp to “grow the market”. The move came as new figures showed that Blu-ray had opened up a decisive lead over the rival home entertainment format.

Sir Howard said: “We are not going to push people around. We’ll talk to anyone ... we have a lot of work to do to grow the market. We’ll be systematic and open to dialogue at all times.”

He added that Sony still had “a lot of work” to do to get Blu-ray “widely accepted” among American consumers.

“With Warner’s support you saw billboards going up in different places and you saw television commercials getting more and more sophisticated and that’s what we’ll continue doing,” said Sir Howard.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony shows off a PS3 running with Blu-ray 2.0 at CES 2008, making the PS3 the only BR player with 2.0 capability. This firmware allows studios to include standard def versions of the movie on the BR disc which can be copied onto any memory stick/card and viewed on the go. The 2.0 firmware will likely be released sometime this summer..........

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006194.html

Sony Demos Copying From Blu-ray Disc

LAS VEGAS -- The concept of copying a lower-resolution version of a film from a packaged media disc to a portable device is not new--in fact, late last year, Fox and Warner released the first standard definition titles to offer this capability (on Live Free, Die Hard and Harry Potter: The Order of the Phoenix, respectively).

Sony today demonstrated the next level of disc copying. At the company's booth at CES, Sony demonstrated how you could put a Blu-ray Disc movie into a Playstation 3 and copy the film to a Playstation Portable or a Memory Stick. "This way, you can have a portable copy you can take with you," explains David Bishop, president of Sony Pictures Home Entertainment.

"There was always the promise of greater interactivity. You'll see that coming in the new year," Bishop added. In addition to the PSP copying example, Sony also demonstrated how you could download ring tones and new content to a BD Live player, using Men in Black as the example.

BD Live is proving to be a big catchphrase at the show: Panasonic announced its BD Live player yesterday, Fox showcased an early version of its Alien vs. Predator multiplayer game at the Blu-ray Disc Association's booth, and Sony showed its interactive Men in Black trivia game. The game was being played by two people in two locations on a Playstation 3.

[stevew]

Wow, that's basically useless to me. Not going to buy a psp anytime in this lifetime.

I'm guessing that you can't just put the dvd onto a memory stick, and then create a DVD from it either.

Still nowhere close to as good as HD-DVD, which at least had the right idea on the whole mess. Not every device in the house is going to be a blu ray player for at least 10 more years. Most people are not going to want to buy multiple copies of the same movie so that it plays on the various players in the house.

Worst comes to worst, at least create cheap technology where I can play the blu ray on my ps3, and have it stream to an SD set in my childrens room.

[stevew]

Also out of CES-

Sad to see that Sony is discontinuing their RPTV's, including the SXRD line. Now if you want a Sony bigger than 52", you'll have to go up to the 70" XBR LCD which costs around 33k.

RPTV's were a bit of a pain in the ass, when it comes to bulb replacement. We rarely sell them anymore at work, last year they sold like hotcakes.

Also, it does look like they're finally making a 37" LCD in the XBR series.. Should be great for a lot of people with a TV cabinent that they don't want to replace. Most entertainment centers limit you to about a 37" wide tv.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

Wow, that's basically useless to me. Not going to buy a psp anytime in this lifetime.

I'm guessing that you can't just put the dvd onto a memory stick, and then create a DVD from it either.

Still nowhere close to as good as HD-DVD, which at least had the right idea on the whole mess. Not every device in the house is going to be a blu ray player for at least 10 more years. Most people are not going to want to buy multiple copies of the same movie so that it plays on the various players in the house.

Worst comes to worst, at least create cheap technology where I can play the blu ray on my ps3, and have it stream to an SD set in my childrens room.

Incorrect. The standard def can be copied onto any memory card format and played on anything that will take digital files. He used PSP as an example because he's a Sony pimp, but you can play it on a iPod, Zune, PC, laptop, etc. Also, the standard def movie contains no copyright DRM protection, so it's easily copied and burned to a DVD if you choose to do so.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Incorrect. The standard def can be copied onto any memory card format and played on anything that will take digital files. He used PSP as an example because he's a Sony pimp, but you can play it on a iPod, Zune, PC, laptop, etc. Also, the standard def movie contains no copyright DRM protection, so it's easily copied and burned to a DVD if you choose to do so.

Can you just pop it into a reg DVD player and watch the low def version?

[Daimyo]

Again, that is pretty useless.

What percent of the population have video devices that accept memory sticks? (the only flash memory mentioned in the article) What percentage of the population have the ability and/or hardware and software to put that file on a standard DVD?

What percent of the population have a standard DVD player?

You really want to argue that this is anywhere near equivalent to HDDVD hybrid discs?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Incorrect. The standard def can be copied onto any memory card format and played on anything that will take digital files. He used PSP as an example because he's a Sony pimp, but you can play it on a iPod, Zune, PC, laptop, etc. Also, the standard def movie contains no copyright DRM protection, so it's easily copied and burned to a DVD if you choose to do so.

I get absolutely none of that info out of the article. All i see is that you can transfer it to a memory stick, ie the sony standard one that's on average 2-3 times more expensive than an SD card, to play it on PSP. If all of that other stuff is true, then great. But there's nothing in that article about DRM free copies, etc. And it's still a much bigger pain in the ass than simply flipping the disk over and playing it in an SD player.

[cartman]

yep, the term "Memory Stick" isn't generic, and refers to the Sony format.

[stevew]

I'd also imagine it'll be a significantly compressed copy unless you're required to use a 4 gig memory stick(tm) for transfer.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by stevew

Also out of CES-

Sad to see that Sony is discontinuing their RPTV's, including the SXRD line. Now if you want a Sony bigger than 52", you'll have to go up to the 70" XBR LCD which costs around 33k.

RPTV's were a bit of a pain in the ass, when it comes to bulb replacement. We rarely sell them anymore at work, last year they sold like hotcakes.

Also, it does look like they're finally making a 37" LCD in the XBR series.. Should be great for a lot of people with a TV cabinent that they don't want to replace. Most entertainment centers limit you to about a 37" wide tv.

This is a very sad development. It was bad enough when CRT RPTVs went away, but at least SXRDs were approaching a reasonable substitute. Losing that technology as well really hurts.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'd also imagine it'll be a significantly compressed copy unless you're required to use a 4 gig memory stick(tm) for transfer.

I don't think that's actually a big deal... compression has come along way since DVD. Presumably they're using H.264/mpeg4 which would give file sizes of around 1GB at DVD resolution with small loss of quality or ~300MB at the PSP's resolution.

[Fidatelo]

The real sad day will be when Plasma's disappear.

[Daimyo]

I never really understood RPTVs... at least not in the last two years when LCDs and Plasmas started getting reasonably priced. If you really want size/money value go front projection. Otherwise LCD/Plasma just seem so much better.