2007 NBA Playoffs Thread

[Neuqua]

There is some ugly basketball going on right now, the Bulls just seem to want it more in the first half. You know Detroit's going to make a run though, hopefully the Bulls can withstand it.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Fouts

I agree with this. Hardly looks intentional to me. More like somebody is trying hard to make it into something.

I don't know. There is no logical explanation for kicking a guy's achilles while he goes up for a dunk. I mean he even pulls the rest of his body back to make it less visible:

[bulletsponge]

wow that foot to the leg does look intentional, it doesnt look like a natural extension of the leg, but more like a kick. you can tell because he puts all his weight and balance on his left foot when kicking his right at the guys leg.

right now im leaning 75% intentional

[miami_fan]

Detroit's run in the second half yesterday was very impressive.

[stevew]

Bruce Bowen did it on purpose cause he's a piece of shit, and would probably be in jail if he wasn't playing basketball. IE that whole vince carter thing, where if Vince wasn't such a pussy he should have beat his ass.

Stern needs to sit his ass down for shit like that.

[bulletsponge]

the more i look at it, the more sure that it was 100% intentional. its the only explanation for it

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Arles

Amare thinks it was deliberate:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...ory?id=2866789

"He kicked me purposely in the back of my Achilles. I almost came down wrong and he almost caused an injury," Stoudemire said after Thursday's practice. "He's known for doing that. I just hope the NBA and the commissioner take a look at that because it's definitely a dirty play."

I think Bowen was certainly trying to kick Amare, the video shows him doing a "leg sweep" in slo mo at his achilles.

Ya he does now after seeing the tape. I guess I could see his point of view, but at the game he didn't really react at all. I'm a hugh Suns fan, but I don't think it was intentional. Slow-mo really makes it look bad, but in real time think about what the thought process would have been to try and do that and be successful at it too.

[SnDvls]

dola - this doesn't mean I don't think Bowen isn't a dirty player either

[heybrad]

He's earned the nickname Bruce Lee Bowen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAakQjpFibg

[kingfc22]

I was able to score some tix for the game tonight. The arena definitley has a buzz, which can be witnessed by the multiple Utah Sucks chants and Let's Go Warriors chants during warmups.

[kingfc22]

dolasome hotties to the right of the espn crew courtside

[Logan]

Get off your god damn Treo and go drink some beers.

[miami_fan]

Looks like Ellis is going to play this game. Bad third foul by Jackson there.

[pennywisesb]

Wow, what a game by the Warriors! I haven't seen shooting like that in a long time. Hopefully we can keep up the intensity in game 4 and tie this thing up.

[kingfc22]

That dunk by Baron was INSANE!!! It almost brought the house down.

[Julio Riddols]

Baron Davis is playing some Jordan-like basketball this postseason. He's carrying that team like it doesn't weigh a thing.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Ya he does now after seeing the tape. I guess I could see his point of view, but at the game he didn't really react at all. I'm a hugh Suns fan, but I don't think it was intentional. Slow-mo really makes it look bad, but in real time think about what the thought process would have been to try and do that and be successful at it too.

It would seem that how one looks at this comes down to who you'd rather see advance. If you're a Suns fan, you're screaming bloody murder and bringing out the 'Bowen is a dirty player' tape from the files. You're pulling out the video showing Isaiah going nuts at MSG last year over a Bowen undercut.

If you're a Spurs fan, you're wondering why, if it was such a serious event, Stoudemire and the Suns did absolutely nothing right after it happened. There was no Isaiah Thomas kind of reaction. It would seem being kicked in the Achilles would really hurt and if there's no immediate reaction from the player being kicked, then claiming it's a big deal seems to be much ado about nothing.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

It would seem that how one looks at this comes down to who you'd rather see advance. If you're a Suns fan, you're screaming bloody murder and bringing out the 'Bowen is a dirty player' tape from the files. You're pulling out the video showing Isaiah going nuts at MSG last year over a Bowen undercut.

If you're a Spurs fan, you're wondering why, if it was such a serious event, Stoudemire and the Suns did absolutely nothing right after it happened. There was no Isaiah Thomas kind of reaction. It would seem being kicked in the Achilles would really hurt and if there's no immediate reaction from the player being kicked, then claiming it's a big deal seems to be much ado about nothing.

But I am I Suns fan and don't think it was intentional so I guess that theory is gone.

[Eaglesfan27]

Ginobli's eye injury there looks really nasty in HD. I wouldn't be surprised if that swells shut if they don't cut it.

[hoopsguy]

Might quiet in this thread when Golden State is losing ...

No, I'm not a Jazz fan (although rooting for them out West) but figured I would see if I can get some NBA talk going again.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Might quiet in this thread when Golden State is losing ...

No, I'm not a Jazz fan (although rooting for them out West) but figured I would see if I can get some NBA talk going again.

Well, it's kind of hard for me to post when I'm not anywhere near a computer. I think it being Mother's Day also had some effect.

Anyway....Golden State just flat out lost, and Utah played extremely gutsy in the fourth quarter. No excuses....the refs....dirty play...the Jazz just played a much better game.

Stephen Jackson is great to watch when he's doing good things, but the whole world can tell when he gets in that "I'm not passing it to anyone" mode. And he usually ends up trying to penetrate through two guys...and usually ends up turning it over. Just frustrating to watch. I still like him as a player, but I just wish Don Nelson would step in and say "Don't penetrate again unless you plan on doing something positive".

It seems like Carlos Boozer never misses a shot..this is why he's an all-star...Derek Fisher made a lot of big shots as well. Just a couple absolute daggers in the 4th quarter. The Warriors had some open looks that they've been making this past month and half not quite go down. Maybe it was another case of running out of gas, and not having the legs to finish it off.

A lot of people are probably going to say the series is over.....I understand that viewpoint, with the Warriors having to into a tough Energy Solutions Arena. However, it is a series, but you still take it one game at a time. It wouldn't shock me to see the Warriors win three straight and shock the world once more, but it also wouldn't shock me if the Warriors play three tough quarters, only to fade in a sea of powder blue, setting the sun on a wonderful season.

Good game, Jazz.

[Vince]

I was at the game, and it was an incredible experience. That arena rocks like no other, and it takes NOTHING to get the crowd going. Karlifornia has it right, the Jazz simply outplayed us. Jason Richardson was a non-factor in the game, and our free throw shooting (as usual) completely sucked. I'm very disappointed in the elbow that Baron Davis threw...completely unnecessary and quite dirty in my opinion. And I'm a big BD fan.

I think the team just ran out of steam at the end. Derek Fisher hit three big three pointers in the fourth, but he was also wide-freaking-open on all of them. There were some dumb mental mistakes and turnovers as well at the end, and it seemed like the refs were out to get us for some reason. That's in no way an excuse; even with the calls that I thought were missed, we lose that game. It just didn't help, and took the energy out of the Warriors.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Well, it's kind of hard for me to post when I'm not anywhere near a computer. I think it being Mother's Day also had some effect.

Anyway....Golden State just flat out lost, and Utah played extremely gutsy in the fourth quarter. No excuses....the refs....dirty play...the Jazz just played a much better game.

Stephen Jackson is great to watch when he's doing good things, but the whole world can tell when he gets in that "I'm not passing it to anyone" mode. And he usually ends up trying to penetrate through two guys...and usually ends up turning it over. Just frustrating to watch. I still like him as a player, but I just wish Don Nelson would step in and say "Don't penetrate again unless you plan on doing something positive".

It seems like Carlos Boozer never misses a shot..this is why he's an all-star...Derek Fisher made a lot of big shots as well. Just a couple absolute daggers in the 4th quarter. The Warriors had some open looks that they've been making this past month and half not quite go down. Maybe it was another case of running out of gas, and not having the legs to finish it off.

A lot of people are probably going to say the series is over.....I understand that viewpoint, with the Warriors having to into a tough Energy Solutions Arena. However, it is a series, but you still take it one game at a time. It wouldn't shock me to see the Warriors win three straight and shock the world once more, but it also wouldn't shock me if the Warriors play three tough quarters, only to fade in a sea of powder blue, setting the sun on a wonderful season.

Good game, Jazz.

Boozer just does not take many bad shots. He may miss shots, but I don't remember seeing him take a shot that is outside of his range.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Vince

I was at the game, and it was an incredible experience. That arena rocks like no other

I must say that Oracle was rocking a whole lot louder and more consistent in Game 3 than Game 4 (I was at both). Yea, the Warriors came out on fire in the 2nd quarter in game 3, but even in the first quarter which played out very similar in both games the crowd seemed much louder to me on Friday than they were yesterday.

The W's clearly ran out of gas late in the game and not having an answer at all to Boozer hurt as well. Hopefully they can get this back to Oakland for Game 6, but it's definately going to be a challenge.

[Young Drachma]

That Jazz v. Warriors series has been entertaining though if nothing else.

[Groundhog]

The best thing about the Warriors and Suns success is that it might show teams that it's OK to break away from the defensively orientated slow-down half-court teams that have dominated the past decade.

I think perhaps teams and talent scouts have gotten a little carried away with height in retrospect, and that players who can shoot have been undervalued as a result of it.

[miami_fan]

Go to the basket LeBron! Stop settling for that jumper!

[Groundhog]

R E B O U N D

[amdaily]

Classic late game, crunch time Lebron. Two chances to all but put the game away in the final 1:05 and his misses two jumpers.

Please Mike Brown get the ball in someone else's hands!

[larrymcg421]

Yeah take it out of the hands of the guy who carried your team to this point, and is the leading scorer of the night with the highest shooting % on the team (except Varejao at 2-2). The negativity that LeBron gets completely baffles me.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by amdaily

Classic late game, crunch time Lebron. Two chances to all but put the game away in the final 1:05 and his misses two jumpers.

Please Mike Brown get the ball in someone else's hands!

I think Nets fans are saying the same thing about Vince Carter right now.

[Young Drachma]

Glad the Nets lost. Lest Brooklyn's team get further along. I wish they'd lose so they can decide whether they're going to get Kidd a title or ship him out for parts.

[TazFTW]

WTF?!?!? Punk Ass Rob

[IMetTrentGreen]

that horry bush league move will overshadow the awful officiating handing that game to phoenix. nobody is going to sympathize with us now.

[bhlloy]

Lost a lot of respect for Horry tonight. Not just the pussy foul, but the punch/forearm to Bell afterwards as well. Just accept you made a bad mistake and leave the floor. Complete BS if Stoudemire and Diaw get suspended.

I didn't see too much awful officiating in Phoenix's favor to be honest. Would be interesting to hear specific incidents you are thinking about.

[larrymcg421]

Stoudamire and Diaw knew the rules. They should have been happy that Horry did that and sat their asses down on the bench with a big smile on their faces. They were about to have game 5 at home against a Spurs team that would be a man down. Very stupid to leave the bench.

Note: I should add that I don't like zero tolerance policies like this one, but if it's there, then you're stupid for not following it, especially during the playoffs.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Stoudamire and Diaw knew the rules. They should have been happy that Horry did that and sat their asses down on the bench with a big smile on their faces. They were about to have game 5 at home against a Spurs team that would be a man down. Very stupid to leave the bench.

Note: I should add that I don't like zero tolerance policies like this one, but if it's there, then you're stupid for not following it, especially during the playoffs.

The problem is that in a situation like this, you can't stop yourself from leaving the bench, because the tension is so high. It's easy to criticize the players for leaving the bench, but we aren't sitting on the bench watching Horry act like an ass to one of our teammates.

[Groundhog]

Is it just me, or does Nash look like a hobo dwarf in this photo?

[RGunner]

does nash really think he can take horry? horry barely touched him (shouldnt have done it but he didnt just level him) and he flew 5 feet

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

The problem is that in a situation like this, you can't stop yourself from leaving the bench, because the tension is so high. It's easy to criticize the players for leaving the bench, but we aren't sitting on the bench watching Horry act like an ass to one of our teammates.

Agreed 100%. You just saw the 8th or 9th guy on the Spurs bench trying to take your best player out of the game. No matter what the league does to Horry, it really doesn't matter to the Spurs.

[RGunner]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Agreed 100%. You just saw the 8th or 9th guy on the Spurs bench trying to take your best player out of the game. No matter what the league does to Horry, it really doesn't matter to the Spurs.

Horry may not be the most important person on the spurs but he is VERY helpful to them, he guards Stoudemire alot, makes timely shots....so yes it will matter to the spurs, not as much as to the suns if stoudemire or diaw get suspended but its not right to say he doesnt mean anything basically to the spurs

[larrymcg421]

Do you want to win a title or not? Is the urge to come off the bench greater than your dreams of winning title? If so, then you don't deserve one. I think it's a stupid rule, but its there and they knew it.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Do you want to win a title or not? Is the urge to come off the bench greater than your dreams of winning title? If so, then you don't deserve one. I think it's a stupid rule, but its there and they knew it.

Yeah, and as I said, if you had the time to rationally think about it then of course you wouldn't rush off the bench. The point is that you don't have time to think about it in situations like that - you just react.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Yeah, and as I said, if you had the time to rationally think about it then of course you wouldn't rush off the bench. The point is that you don't have time to think about it in situations like that - you just react.

So you think it's impossible?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So you think it's impossible?

No, I don't think it's impossible. Clearly not every player leapt off the Suns bench and went after Horry. I'm just saying that in the heat of the moment people do things that they wouldn't usually do, because you are running on instincts and emotion, not rationality.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

No, I don't think it's impossible. Clearly not every player leapt off the Suns bench and went after Horry. I'm just saying that in the heat of the moment people do things that they wouldn't usually do, because you are running on instincts and emotion, not rationality.

And what I'm saying is if you want to win an NBA championship under the current rules, then you need to prepare yourself for moments like this. The better team will be able to control themselves better. The rule may be stupid but its there, and if you retire without a ring you can say "well, that's only because I didn't get to play in game 5 of the 2007 conference semifinals because of a stupid rule", but I don't think anyone will care.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

And what I'm saying is if you want to win an NBA championship under the current rules, then you need to prepare yourself for moments like this. The better team will be able to control themselves better. The rule may be stupid but its there, and if you retire without a ring you can say "well, that's only because I didn't get to play in game 5 of the 2007 conference semifinals because of a stupid rule", but I don't think anyone will care.

An interesting argument was raised, seeing as how this never became a brawl and amere and raja never got close enough. How is it any different then the bench players stepping on the court when their cheering a dunk of something(which happens more then you think). They dont suspend all of those players(from an SI article).

I believe if they left Bowen slide for the achilles and groin kick, they have to let amare and raja slide

[larrymcg421]

I should make clear that I do not want them suspended. I'm actually rooting for Phoenix.

However, I don't quite buy that explanation. They were clearly headed for Horry, and would have got to him if not held back by the Spurs coaches. Who knows what would have happened at that point.

Bottom line is if they don't leave the bench, then there's no discussion.

[miami_fan]

Hopefully common sense prevails. I don't think they should be suspended. But if you are part of the "rules are rules" crowd, then they have to be suspended.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12...av=ArticleList

From the NBA rulebook
During an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be suspended, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $35,000. The suspensions will commence prior to the start of their next game

Just as interesting is the question of how long will Horry get. James Posey got a game for a similar shot last year for the Heat. If the Suns players get a game, does Horry have to get two or more? If the Suns players don't get suspended, does that mean Horry will only get one game?