03-20-2006, 06:58 PM | #501 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Quote:
No joke. It really destroys the spirit of the rules. |
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03-20-2006, 07:00 PM | #502 | |
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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Ok, so i'm dumb.. what is the "poison pill"?
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03-20-2006, 07:11 PM | #503 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Honolulu, HI
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Cowboys sign LB Rocky Boiman to a 3 year deal.
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03-20-2006, 07:21 PM | #504 | |
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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lame.
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03-20-2006, 07:21 PM | #505 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada eh
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Quote:
Clause in Hutchinson's contract stating that if he isn't the highest paid offensive lineman on the team, his entire contract becomes guarenteed. On the Seahawks, as of the offer, Walter Jones was being paid more than Hutchinson, and as it turns out, once the offer was signed by Hutchinson, the Seahawks could not then restructure Jones' contract to pay him less on average than Hutchinson. Meanwhile, Hutch would have been the highest paid lineman on the Vikings, so the clause would not have kicked in, and they likely wouldn't have had to worry about it until McKinnie's contract needed to be redone, at which point they'd like restructure Hutchinson's contract as well to avoid the clause that was included. For all intent's and purposes, the clause's intention is to either stick the Hawks with all $49 million on the deal, or (preferably for Minnesota) force them to step back and allow Hutch to walk. |
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03-20-2006, 07:35 PM | #506 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Seattle
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It's a bullshit provision in the first place and an even bigger bullshit decision by the arbitrator to uphold it - by the definition of his ruling, there was no possible way for the Seahawks to "match" the offer since they would have to guarantee the entire deal and the Vikings wouldn't.
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03-20-2006, 07:37 PM | #507 |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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I think it's pretty creative. I like seeing stuff like that from teams when competing for free agents.
It reminds me of what happened with Fedorov and Carolina back 1998 in the NHL. Fedorov was holding out for a long time and then near the end of the season Carolina signed Fedorov, a restricted free agent at the time, to a massive offer sheet that the Wings either had to match or let him go. It was a 6 year, $38 million deal. The "poison pill" in that contract was a clause that trigged a massive bonus ($12 million) if his team reached the Conference finals. Carolina had no hopes of doing that in 1998 and the Wings had a very good chance (they won the Cup that year). The Wings matched the deal and had to cough up $26 million to Fedorov that year: $14 million signing bonus + $12 million that was triggered when they reached the conference finals.
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03-20-2006, 07:40 PM | #508 | |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Quote:
Based on my understanding of the rules of the CBA, the arbitrator got it. In order to "match" a deal a team has to match all the principal provisions of the contract and and clauses that trigger guarantees are considered within that definition.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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03-20-2006, 07:45 PM | #509 |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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All football contracts should be guaranteed, with exception to the stupid motorcycle/other stupid act not otherwise defined clause.
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03-20-2006, 07:57 PM | #510 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The State of Rutgers
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JMO, but the Vikings overpaid for Hutchinson. You don't give that kind of money to an OG.
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03-20-2006, 08:01 PM | #511 | |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Mexico
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Quote:
I agree. Both teams are actually hurt by this move. |
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03-20-2006, 08:08 PM | #512 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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Quote:
Ummm, no.
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03-20-2006, 08:24 PM | #513 | |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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Quote:
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03-20-2006, 08:26 PM | #514 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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Quote:
yes.
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03-20-2006, 08:27 PM | #515 | |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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Quote:
Get rid of the cap. Let the players get paid for the length of their contracts.
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03-20-2006, 08:34 PM | #516 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Edmond, OK
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Quote:
Don't know much about him. I'm assuming this is a depth move rather than picking up a starter. |
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03-20-2006, 08:56 PM | #517 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Honolulu, HI
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Quote:
Hmm, not sure. Ourlads has the starters as Singleton and Ware on the outside and Bradie James and Ayodele on the inside. Ware is a lock and with the money given to Ayodele, he should be a lock. Boiman could compete for the other spots.
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03-20-2006, 09:06 PM | #518 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: May 2001
Location: williamsburg, va
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Quote:
If you're saying you'd like the NFL to be MORE like MLB, then we might as well stop because we have completely different views on what is an enjoyable professional sports league.
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03-20-2006, 09:16 PM | #519 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
Yes, they could have, but they would have to have paid the $13 million bonus immediately, or in any case, take the entire cap hit of the bonus. |
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03-20-2006, 09:16 PM | #520 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
yup. |
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03-20-2006, 09:30 PM | #521 |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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I can understand the enjoyable part, but I still feel players should get what they're signed for, whether it counts to the cap or not.
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03-20-2006, 09:31 PM | #522 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Quote:
I couldn't disagree more. |
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03-20-2006, 09:41 PM | #523 |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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It happens in baseball, I don't know or care about other sports other than football.
Pay the players for what they signed for. I would be ticked if the Navy told me they'd sign me to a six year contract (which I'm currently on) to release me three years in because they have a new sailor they want to break in and he's cheaper. Meh. You want to release a guy? Fine, that money counts to the cap at the rate (if there is one) that it does now, and you have to pay the guy the money he is owed. NFL teams should have to be more responsible with their money than they are. Can the player break the contract? You start letting players break their contract when they want to, and I will be happy.
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03-20-2006, 09:41 PM | #524 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
The Vikings overpaid, but I don't think the contract is that bad for them. Having $30+ million in cap space this year it was unlikely they would have used it all and 13 million of it counts under the cap this season. That means after this season the deal has $36 million remaining over 6 years, which I believe is slightly less per year than Larry Allen's contract pays him, who I believe has a deal that averages more than $6 million a year. So after one year in which money under the cap wasn't an issue, the deal is on par with what had been the going rate for a top guard in the league. |
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03-20-2006, 09:43 PM | #525 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
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You can't have garunteed contracts in the NFL. Injuries are too frequent and severe and it'd bankrupt teams when the average career length is like 4 years. You'd only see 1 year contracts.
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03-20-2006, 09:43 PM | #526 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Catonsville, MD
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Quote:
Me either. There are so many circumstances where a player shouldn't get non-guaranteed money. 1). In real life, I don't get the full value of my contract if I retire, why should an athelete automatically? 2) I don't get the full value of my contract if I am injured, just part of it, so why should an athelete? 3) I don't get the full value of my contract if I misrepresented myself at contract time, so why should an athelete? 4). I don't get the full value of my contract if I'm lazy and fired, why should an athelete? -Anxiety
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03-20-2006, 09:45 PM | #527 |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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1). In real life, I don't get the full value of my contract if I retire, why should an athelete automatically?
Otherwise not defined category. I agree with that. 2) I don't get the full value of my contract if I am injured, just part of it, so why should an athelete? If you're injured as part of your job, you do. 3) I don't get the full value of my contract if I misrepresented myself at contract time, so why should an athelete? Do you get scrutinized as much as the athlete? 4). I don't get the full value of my contract if I'm lazy and fired, why should an athelete? I'd like to know how many of the players released as a salary cap casualty are in the lazy category.
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03-20-2006, 09:45 PM | #528 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
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athlete
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03-20-2006, 09:47 PM | #529 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Catonsville, MD
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Quote:
Heh - what I get for typing and watching the WBC at the same time. -Anxiety
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03-20-2006, 10:40 PM | #530 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Edmond, OK
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Quote:
No way he beats out James. Word from the coaching staff was James had a very good year and is really coming into his own. Singleton has had health issues, though, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him compete there. I had hoped they'd go after someone like Peterson to play opposite Ware. A group with Ware, James, Ayodele and Peterson would not only be very solid but still fairly young as well. |
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03-20-2006, 10:41 PM | #531 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
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03-20-2006, 10:47 PM | #532 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quote:
I'd 100% agree with this. By saying the matching offer has to be automatically back dated from the time the offer sheet is signed, Seattle has to make a greater offer than Minnesota made. They were able to get Jones to redo his deal to not trigger that part of the Hutch deal, but they weren't allowed to basically 'match' the deal instead of being forced into a superior one.
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03-20-2006, 11:07 PM | #533 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada eh
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Seahawks move on?
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9324476 Quote:
A good signing, I'm still holding out hope on the Hutchinson front, but this should really solidify our front seven. Add a corner and if Hamlin returns, could be a very scary defense. |
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03-20-2006, 11:18 PM | #534 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quote:
Seems like it: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2377300 Seahawks let Vikings take Hutchinson for $49M By John Clayton ESPN.com The Seahawks decided Monday not to match the seven-year, $49 million offer sheet on Steve Hutchinson, allowing the All-Pro guard to go to the Minnesota Vikings. The seven-day deadline to match the Vikings' seven-year, $49 million offer sheet expired at midnight ET Monday. The Seahawks did not notify Hutchinson, the Vikings or his agent, Tom Condon, that they were going to match the offer. By letting the deadline pass, Hutchinson became property of the Vikings. As the deadline was passing, the Seahawks entered serious negotiations with 49ers linebacker Julian Peterson. The Seahawks regained $6.391 million of cap room by letting Hutchinson leave for Minnesota. The $6.391 million represented the one-year tender Hutchinson had as a transition player. Earlier Monday, the Seahawks lost a ruling with special master Stephen Burbank in which they wanted to make a slight change in the language of the Vikings' offer sheet to avoid having to guarantee the entire $49 million had they matched. Burbank called the adjustment a change in the principle term of the contract and ruled in favor of Hutchinson and the Vikings. John Clayton is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com.
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03-20-2006, 11:36 PM | #535 |
n00b
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Beaverton, OR, USA
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I've seen some speculation that this Hutchinson affair will essentially remove the transtition tag as an option for teams and make restricted free agency a situation teams may need to avoid: any team that does not have high paid players at a position is free to sign a restricted/transition player from a team that does have a high paid player and throw in a guaranteed provision and voila...
Salary cap/guaranteed contracts: the salary cap almost certainly causes players to be paid more by increasing interest in the league. Contracts have a guaranteed portion: the signing bonus, and to a lesser extent, roster bonuses. I believe players can insure the contract against injury and they can probably buy disability insurance - it's bound to be expensive, but c'mon, skip the Ferrari and insure yourself. Frankly, I think guaranteed contracts simply allow underperforming players to continue to be paid while more deserving players are paid less. |
03-21-2006, 12:07 AM | #536 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
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That's a lot of money for Peterson. This will be his 2nd season after his major achilles injury and he did not play that well last year for the Niners.
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03-21-2006, 12:23 AM | #537 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Agreed. I am shocked to see that number for him. The last I read, he was considering re-signing with S.F. on a one-year deal for like $3-4M. I am really surprised that the Seahawks gave him that much guaranteed money. It seems like they may have been bidding against themselves. |
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03-21-2006, 08:31 AM | #538 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Fixed. Last edited by flere-imsaho : 03-21-2006 at 08:32 AM. |
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03-21-2006, 08:53 AM | #539 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Edmond, OK
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Quote:
After doing a bit of checking, it looks like he'll be a depth guy for the most part, and he's supposedly a monster on special teams. What do you think about Allen? Rumors are flying he's going to get cut... |
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03-21-2006, 09:06 AM | #540 |
Rider Of Rohan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep
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If Peterson plays like he's capable of playing, and they can stay reasonably healthy, that Seahawks defense will be formidable, baby.
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It's not the years...it's the mileage. |
03-21-2006, 09:20 AM | #541 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
One of the bad things that the NFL/NFLPA do is call the agreements that the players sign with the teams "contracts" instead of something more accurate like "CBA sub-agreements." In a normal employment contract, I promise to employ you for 3 years at $50,000 per year. In that instance, you need to work for me (with some exceptions) and I need to pay you. The money is legally guaranteed. But NFL "contracts" are really creatures of the CBA. They are not contracts in the traditional sense. Let's say that the Titans give Eddie George a 4 year deal with a $7,000,000 signing bonus and annual salaries of $2,000,000. Here is what the team and player are really getting: Eddie George gets: 1.) $7,000,000 2.) The right to be paid $2,000,000 for every season that the Titans choose to employ him. The Titans get: 1.) The right to employ Eddie George (and prevent him from being employed by another NFL team) at the rate of $2,000,000 per year for four years. 2.) The unilateral right to end the agreement at any time. Now the key thing to remember is that ALL OF THE PARTIES KNOW HOW THIS WORKS FROM THE BEGINNING. Both Eddie George and the Titans know the rules of the game. That is why Eddie George tries to get as much money as he can as a signing bonus. That is why Eddie George will try to get roster bonuses put into the contract that kick in right before UFA starts (because that will force the team to either pay him more money or release him at a time when other teams can pick him up). And that is why the team will lots of time put huge salaries at the end of agreements--they know that they will never have to pay them and it strokes the player's ego to say he has a "75 million dollar deal." If the contracts were guaranteed, then teams would never agree to the Monopoly money numbers we see at the end of agreements today. Last edited by albionmoonlight : 03-21-2006 at 09:22 AM. |
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03-21-2006, 09:33 AM | #542 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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Quote:
All contracts in life are not guarenteed. They generally do have clauses to allow for early release in certain situations, or buy-outs. These are contracts because they are agreed upon conditions by the teams and the player's association. If the NFL guarenteed contracts, they would be in the mess the MLB baseball is in quickly, and in even worse shape within a few years. It would be the worst thing that could happen to the sport. Luckly, the men involved (including the players) are smart enough to see that. |
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03-21-2006, 11:08 AM | #543 |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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This was taken from profootballtalk.com, so the be mindful of the source:
LIONS FEAR A REVOLT We're told that management of the Detroit Lions is bracing themselves for a backlash once new coach Rod Marinelli begins to apply his military mindset to a locker room containing more than a few guys who might not be inclined to respond to such tactics. Although the hiring of Marinelli won praise in some circles since he's the kind of take-the-bull-by-the-bouncy-things leader that the team needs, there's only so much of the roster that can be turned over in a single offseason. So when guys like receiver Mike Williams (who showed up, we hear, for offseason workouts overweight) or receiver Charles Rogers (who continues to be a lazy turd, we're told) start to piss and moan about Marinelli's manner, other guys might be influenced by their complaints. The other problem is that, if Marinelli and the Lions take liberties with any of the offseason workout rules, one of the guys who haven't bought in to Marinelli's approach could blow the whistle to the NFLPA, which is exactly what happened during Tom Coughlin's first season with the Giants and Denny Green's first year with the Cardinals. So maybe, in the end, the decision to boot quarterback Joey Harrington sooner rather than later was an effort to win over the players, many of whom had decided that Harrington should go. Indeed, the move could win over just enough guys to keep the ones who might be inclined to rebel in check. -------------------------------------- There have been rumblings about this for a while. Apparently Mooch ran things like a country club. Very little hitting, not too demanding, etc. He basically left it up to the players to be disciplined enough to work hard. It was pretty obvious that wasn't working. Quite obvious. As for a revolt, I think a little revolution every now and then is a good thing. These players need a kick in the ass. I don't think it needs to go to a ridiculous, Tom Coughlin/Boot Camp level of things, but this team needs a fire light under its collective ass and needs someone who will push these guys, force them to work hard, and form an identity. As for those players who aren't up for it... the Lions are probably better off without them, even if they include a lot of their "best" players. It will be interesting to see what unfolds. Most likely it wont work and the Lions will continue to suck.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
03-21-2006, 11:20 AM | #544 | |
Rider Of Rohan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep
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Quote:
__________________
It's not the years...it's the mileage. Last edited by WSUCougar : 03-21-2006 at 11:20 AM. |
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03-21-2006, 01:17 PM | #545 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Honolulu, HI
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Quote:
He's gone if they have to free up cap room to sign somebody. The 'boys would save $3.4 million if he were released. They still haven't gone after a kicker. I'm surprised that they haven't gone after Vinatieri or that Vinatieri hasn't gotten any offers besides the Packers.
__________________
"Teams don't want to make the trip anymore," says Hawaii coach June Jones. "They come here, we kick their ass, they go home." Fire Ron Lee. |
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03-21-2006, 02:28 PM | #546 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cinn City
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HB, before you brought him up, I was asking myself, didn't they say the same things about the Giants when Coughlin came in? Things have gone smoothly there. If they win, it will solve everything.
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03-21-2006, 03:03 PM | #547 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada eh
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Quote:
Been reading that Dallas may still make an offer to Josh Brown, which barring some sort of clause making him the highest paid player on the team, I'd imagine the Seahawks would have to match. That said, if Allen gets cut, I wonder (re: hope) if that's an avenue the Seahawks might explore for a short term solution to replacing Hutchinson. |
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03-21-2006, 04:33 PM | #548 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Quote:
I would definitely expect the revolt and I agree it will be a good thing. That is exactly why they hired him. To kick the soft guys in the ass. I am pretty sure someone will complain about the tough practices and workouts. That is a-okay in my book. |
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03-21-2006, 04:45 PM | #549 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Agent says DT Henderson gets big-money deal
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2378389
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Defensive tackle John Henderson signed a six-year contract extension with the Jacksonville Jaguars on Tuesday, locking up another cornerstone of one of the team's defenses. Terms of the deal were not released, but Henderson's agent, Tim McGee, said the new contract gave Henderson more guaranteed money than any other NFL tackle. Henderson is the fourth defensive starter, and third lineman, to sign a long-term contract with the Jaguars since early last year. End Reggie Hayward, cornerback Rashean Mathis and tackle Marcus Stroud each signed five-year contracts that totaled $82 million, including about $30 million guaranteed. Henderson made his lone Pro Bowl in 2004, but coaches believe he has been equally important to the team's success as Stroud, a three-time Pro Bowler. Henderson had three sacks and 70 tackles last season, the most by any interior lineman in the AFC. The 6-foot-7, 328-pound former Tennessee star and first-round draft pick has started every game in four seasons and has 254 tackles and 18½ sacks. So is this the new claim du jour? Instead of getting big signing bonuses, it will be about getting the most guaranteed money. |
03-21-2006, 05:39 PM | #550 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Honolulu, HI
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Adam Vinatieri and the Colts have agreed in principle.
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