2007-08 Baseball Offseason

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Exactly. Prospects are great but in 4 years when both are ready to shine, we'll be without a good chunk of our current roster. Give me the 24 year old surefire (or as close as can be) hall of fame 3B and a SP with some talent any day of the week.

I think its a great deal for the Tigers, they are getting an all-star 3B and a proven starter who's had one bad year. I'm not sure why everyone is saying he is a fluke, washed up, or whatever. He has a career ERA of 3.78, pitching at Comerica can only help. Not to mention both are in their mid to early 20s, they still have a lot of time ahead of them.

Sure they are giving up prospects but, there are no gaurantees that Maybin and Miller are going to end up being All-star caliber players.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Balldog

I think its a great deal for the Tigers, they are getting an all-star 3B and a proven starter who's had one bad year. I'm not sure why everyone is saying he is a fluke, washed up, or whatever. He has a career ERA of 3.78, pitching at Comerica can only help. Not to mention both are in their mid to early 20s, they still have a lot of time ahead of them.

Sure they are giving up prospects but, there are no gaurantees that Maybin and Miller are going to end up being All-star caliber players.

Plus, I look at it like this. Five years from now, assuming we tie up Miggy, you have Miguel, Granderson and Verlander as your core. Find me a team that wouldn't want that core.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Balldog

I'm not sure why everyone is saying he is a fluke, washed up, or whatever. He has a career ERA of 3.78, pitching at Comerica can only help.

His trend lines over the last 3 years for ERA, K rate and BB rate are all going the wrong way, and he's moving from the NL to the AL which will also hurt him.

Maybe it's just a temporary slide and he can recover his former effectiveness, but there's no question he's been on a downward slide the last couple of seasons.

[Crapshoot]

The more I read, the more I'm reconsidering my initial opinion - this may not be that bad a deal for the Tigers. Chief amongst my reasons for this is that Willis while borderline bad last year, played in front of what was the worst defense in baseball, with Cabrera and Ramirez a major reason. Now, if the Tigers would swap Guillen (who IMO, was not that bad a SS) and Cabrera across the diamond, their defense is better than the current alignment, and they don't lose anything offensively. Even if Miggy lost weight, he was 2000-2004 Jeter-esque at his position - and that is not a good thing.

[ISiddiqui]

Holy crap, what a big deal!

Have to see how good the prospects are, but the Tigers may have positioned themselves nicely... and more about the Cabrera than the Willis part.

[BishopMVP]

I really don't see this as a bad deal from the Tiger standpoint, in fact I'd say they got the better end. Maybin was overrated and Miller doesn't have the potential of a Porcello or Verlander. I like De La Cruz, maybe even more than Miller, but the other propects are throw-ins. And now Detroit has the best lineup in MLB. It's ridiculous now how much better the AL is than the NL. Red Sox/Tigers/Indians/Angels/Yankees. There's no team in the NL that is up in that level (maybe they can match the Yankees, but I'm pretty sure now NYY has to make a move. Between Hank and the new stadium, they won't be willing to take a year or two off being a WS contender/favorite to rebuild around their young pitching.)

[Chief Rum]

All I know as an Angels fan. With the Tigers making this huge deal and the Sox closing in on Santana, the ante has been upped again. And while Hunter is a legit bat to add to the lineup, we are still a step back at this point. So Reagins better hope one of those "interesting" things he said was happening actually does.

[dawgfan]

Seems like a win-win trade, even accounting for the fact that Willis has been declining and is moving to the AL. Detroit has a number of key players on the wrong side of 30, so making a bold move to improve the team now makes sense for them. Maybe Miller will turn out to be a better long-term value than Willis, maybe Maybin will develop into a star or superstar, maybe some of the other pieces they sent away will become productive major-leaguers - what the Tigers have done is add a huge, huge bat to their lineup. And if Willis stumbles? Well, he wasn't likely to be more than their #4 guy anyway.

And for the Marlins, they (once again) loaded up on multiple well-regarded young players to continue their recycling program, waiting for a new stadium to get built while keeping the system very young but highly promising.

Give Detroit credit - in essence, their willingness to spend market value on draft picks and say "Fuck you" to Selig's attempt to rig draft bonuses has allowed them to make a move like this. Not just that they landed Miller when many teams ahead of them passed, not because of his ability but because they didn't want to cross Selig and pay Miller what he was asking, but because they did it again with Porcello, giving them another arm for the system and making it easier to part with Miller.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Exactly. Prospects are great but in 4 years when both are ready to shine, we'll be without a good chunk of our current roster. Give me the 24 year old surefire (or as close as can be) hall of fame 3B and a SP with some talent any day of the week.

I knew we'd see eye-to-eye on this.

It's possible that all Willis needs is a change of scenery. Not only will the defense behind him be much better in Detroit, he'll be pitching in front of a packed house every night instead of 8,000 or so fans scattered throughout the stadium. He also is pitching in a huge ballpark.

The Tigers have a good core of players and the time is now to start adding to it. It's also not like the Tigers are trading a bunch of great prospects for guys in the twlight of their career. Cabrera and Willis are both young and could get better. They are only a few years older than Miller and Maybin and have already proven they can excel at the major league level.

This isn't Smoltz for Doyle Alexander.

[MikeVic]

The Jays better get Bedard, Bay, and Linececum or whoever they were talking about today. These other teams just keep getting better!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Royals have reached a final contract agreement with Jose Guillen (3 years, $36M), pending a physical. Royals now turn their attention to Andruw Jones, hoping to sign him to a one or two year deal for around $16M/season. Royals are also in talks with Hiroki Kudota (also receiving interest from the Dodgers and Mariners), who is seeking a four year contract for around $12M/season. Carlos Silva is a backup option if talks with Kudota fall through.

The signing of Jose Guillen may also mean that either David DeJesus or Joey Gathright may be traded. The Rangers and Braves are both heavily interested in DeJesus. Atlanta is reportedly offering left-handed starter Chuck James in a straight-up trade for DeJesus.

[RedKingGold]

Nice to see steroid-users still don't take a hit in the pocketbook (BARRY BE DAMNED!)

[Young Drachma]

I'm happy for D-Train to finally get a change of scenery.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I knew we'd see eye-to-eye on this.

It's possible that all Willis needs is a change of scenery. Not only will the defense behind him be much better in Detroit, he'll be pitching in front of a packed house every night instead of 8,000 or so fans scattered throughout the stadium. He also is pitching in a huge ballpark.

The Tigers have a good core of players and the time is now to start adding to it. It's also not like the Tigers are trading a bunch of great prospects for guys in the twlight of their career. Cabrera and Willis are both young and could get better. They are only a few years older than Miller and Maybin and have already proven they can excel at the major league level.

This isn't Smoltz for Doyle Alexander.

D-Train was pitching in a pitcher's park though.

[molson]

Prospects are for losers.

[MrBug708]

No love for Andruw Jones to the Dodgers for two years 36 million?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

No love for Andruw Jones to the Dodgers for two years 36 million?

It appears there was somewhat of a bidding war between the Royals and Dodgers. The Dodgers started at 2 yrs/$31M. The Royals countered twice, but eventually the Dodgers went to a point the Royals were not interested in.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

It'll be a fun team to watch......for a year or two. After that, it'll be the Burnt-out Boxcar Express.

That's right, because the Tigers just traded for two guys in their mid-thir... I mean twenties, and we all know that baseball player's career is pretty much over after 27.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That's right, because the Tigers just traded for two guys in their mid-thir... I mean twenties, and we all know that baseball player's career is pretty much over after 27.

They also gave up 3 pretty darned good pitching prospects along with Maybin and Miller.

Not only that, there's no guarantee that either guy will resign in 2009. That should have been a part of the deal.

[Young Drachma]

I'm all for dealing guys to win now, especially when your window is short. Baseball's playoffs aren't like they used to be and when winning your division is doable, nothing is better than trying to set yourself up for a playoff run.

And I've believed watching Dontrelle for the past two years in limited starts, that a guy who plays with so much enthusiasm can't possibly be enjoying himself in Florida and that it was time for him to be sent somewhere else.

I don't say he's a 20-game winner this year, but I do believe he'll rebound in a big way.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

They also gave up 3 pretty darned good pitching prospects along with Maybin and Miller.

Not only that, there's no guarantee that either guy will resign in 2009. That should have been a part of the deal.

If Willis and Cabrera end up working out in Detroit, they will be re-signed. Trust me.

No, don't trust me. Trust Mr. Illitch.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

No love for Andruw Jones to the Dodgers for two years 36 million?

Excellent deal. Jones should bounce back and the 2-year commitment is perfect for a 30-year old centerfielder. However, it took exactly 1 year for the Pierre deal to become a complete disaster. He's still owed $36 million over 4 years and they're probably going to bump him over to left and have him block Ethier or Kemp, whichever one doesn't win the job in RF.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Excellent deal. Jones should bounce back and the 2-year commitment is perfect for a 30-year old centerfielder. However, it took exactly 1 year for the Pierre deal to become a complete disaster. He's still owed $36 million over 4 years and they're probably going to bump him over to left and have him block Ethier or Kemp, whichever one doesn't win the job in RF.

I really hope we trade Pierre, an OF of Ethier/Jones/Kemp would be awesome.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by dangarion

I really hope we trade Pierre, an OF of Ethier/Jones/Kemp would be awesome.

Err, who to?

I think this was a good deal for the Dodgers - I don't believe Jones is done, and while I don't think he's the player he was 2-3 years ago, he's still pretty damn good. Far better than the Tori Hunter deal IMO. Colletti has a brain - who knew?

Now, for them to trade Matt Kemp for Melvin Mora.

[MrBug708]

I'm sure Pierre will be traded to the Giants shortly

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm sure Pierre will be traded to the Giants shortly

YOU STOP THAT NOW

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I'm sure Pierre will be traded to the Giants shortly

He's still a little old for the Giants. But there are teams out there that wanted an CF.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dangarion

He's still a little young for the Giants. But there are teams out there that wanted an CF.

Fixed

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Fixed

Dammit, that's what I meant!

[TazFTW]

Jose Guillen and Jay Gibbons were suspended 15 games for violating MLB's drug program.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7532310?MSNHPHMA

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

No love for Andruw Jones to the Dodgers for two years 36 million?

Great deal, I think. I would have loved the Royals to go 2/36 on Jones rather than 3/36 on Guillen. Then again, my favorite deal last winter was Jason Schmidt...

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Royals have reached a final contract agreement with Jose Guillen (3 years, $36M), pending a physical. Royals now turn their attention to Andruw Jones, hoping to sign him to a one or two year deal for around $16M/season. Royals are also in talks with Hiroki Kudota (also receiving interest from the Dodgers and Mariners), who is seeking a four year contract for around $12M/season. Carlos Silva is a backup option if talks with Kudota fall through.

Every time I see the Royals linked with Silva for 4/$40, I throw up in my mouth a little. Thanks, Dayton, we already have enough back of the rotation guys competing next year. We don't need to add one at $10M per.

The signing of Jose Guillen may also mean that either David DeJesus or Joey Gathright may be traded. The Rangers and Braves are both heavily interested in DeJesus. Atlanta is reportedly offering left-handed starter Chuck James in a straight-up trade for DeJesus.

I think Dayton needs to be forbidden from trading with Atlanta. At least with useful pieces. It always feels like he's short changing us to give some back to his old buddies.

SI

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Great deal, I think. I would have loved the Royals to go 2/36 on Jones rather than 3/36 on Guillen. Then again, my favorite deal last winter was Jason Schmidt...

SI

Jason Schmidt rules.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Jose Guillen and Jay Gibbons were suspended 15 games for violating MLB's drug program.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7532310?MSNHPHMA

I love how two days ago Olney breaks that Guillen was going to be suspended for 15. Then MLB denies it yesterday. And now it's official...

SI

[sterlingice]

Anyone with any thoughts on the Rule V Draft? Royals didn't pick anyone despite having the #3 pick. Didn't lose anyone in the MLB portion of the draft either.

Tampa makes a quick $150K from the Cubs for picking who they want and then trading him for cash.

SI

[JeffNights]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

It'll be a fun team to watch......for a year or two. After that, it'll be the Burnt-out Boxcar Express.

And the Tigs still won't be able to beat the Sox this year. No bullpen.

I guess being a Spartan fan leaves eternally negative...

The Tigers will win the Series this year, book it.

[MrBug708]

ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports that there are rumblings that the Dodgers have more interest in Erik Bedard than Johan Santana and that they'd be willing to go with a 4-for-1 swap centered around their best pitching prospect, Clayton Kershaw, and either Matt Kemp or Andre Ethier.

Yuck

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JeffNights

I guess being a Spartan fan leaves eternally negative...

The Tigers will win the Series this year, book it.

Hear that everybody? No need to show up this year.

[Young Drachma]

I don't understand how ESPN can trot that Game of Shadows guy out like he's a real journalist, when he sells copies of his book every time he's on screen, trotting out his stories as fact, when they are just one guy's accounts of "evidence." What a sham, even if it's true...the way they're handling it is a big joke. Not a surprise, since it's ESPN, but since that's what we're bombarded with, it's as much off-season news as anything.

[Terps]

Originally Posted by dangarion

I really hope we trade Pierre, an OF of Ethier/Jones/Kemp would be awesome.

That's if they keep both Kemp and Ethier, both are being thrown around in talks with the O's for Bedard. Along with Kershaw, LaRoche, Hu, McDonald and Elbert.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Terps

That's if they keep both Kemp and Ethier, both are being thrown around in talks with the O's for Bedard. Along with Kershaw, LaRoche, Hu, McDonald and Elbert.

I haven't heard any Bedard talk here in LA. Maybe I've missed it.

[Terps]

From what I've heard they're the strongest pursuers for him, along with the Reds and Mariners.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by AP

Eric Gagne and Brewers reach preliminary agreement on 10M deal
By CHRIS JENKINS, AP Sports Writer
December 9, 2007

MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- The Milwaukee Brewers reached a preliminary agreement on a $10 million, one-year contract with free-agent reliever Eric Gagne, giving the team another option at closer after losing Francisco Cordero to free agency.

Gagne's deal, which is subject to him passing a physical, will allow him to earn an additional $1 million in performance bonuses, a person familiar with the negotiations said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the contract has not been finalized.

Gagne's agreement was first reported by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel on its Web site.

"We're not there yet," Brewers general manager Doug Melvin said Saturday night at the Marquette-Wisconsin basketball game.

Melvin said the Brewers' interest in Gagne didn't indicate a lack of confidence in reliever Derrick Turnbow, considered the most logical candidate to take over as the Brewers' closer after Cordero finalized a $46 million, four-year deal with Cincinnati.

"We're just adding depth," Melvin said.

The Brewers were interested in trading for Gagne before last season's trading deadline, but lost out to the Boston Red Sox. Gagne struggled in Boston, going 2-2 with a 6.75 ERA in 20 games after being traded from Texas, but Melvin said he still considered the right-hander a potential closer.

"He's got a history of closing, and he's a guy that can help our bullpen on the back end," Melvin said.

Gagne had 152 saves with the Los Angeles Dodgers from 2002 to 2004, the most in a three-year period in major league history, and won the NL Cy Young Award in 2003. The Canadian's streak of converting 84 consecutive save opportunities in those years is far and away the longest in major league baseball.

AP Baseball Writer Ronald Blum in New York contributed to this report.

I would have thought he could have been had for half that kind of money, in a "have a good healthy year and then lock up a long term contract" sort of thing. Instead, $10M per for 1 year?

SI

[lungs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I would have thought he could have been had for half that kind of money, in a "have a good healthy year and then lock up a long term contract" sort of thing. Instead, $10M per for 1 year?

SI

Although Red Sox fans may disagree, I believe the Brewers' thinking is that it's worth an extra 4-5 million to not have Derrick Turnbow as the closer.

A lot of money came off the books for the Brewers this year and it's a one year deal so I'm pretty sure Doug Melvin wanted to make damn sure he got Gagne even if $10 million is a little out of line. If Gagne has a good year, it was well worth it, considering they were offering Francisco Cordero 4 years for $42 million. If he has a bad year, well, it was only a one year contract

As a Brewer fan, I like this signing. Move Gagne into one of the worst divisions in baseball and I think he can thrive. He'll bridge the gap nicely until the young flamethrower Luis Pena is ready to close.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by lungs

Although Red Sox fans may disagree, I believe the Brewers' thinking is that it's worth an extra 4-5 million to not have Derrick Turnbow as the closer.

A lot of money came off the books for the Brewers this year and it's a one year deal so I'm pretty sure Doug Melvin wanted to make damn sure he got Gagne even if $10 million is a little out of line. If Gagne has a good year, it was well worth it, considering they were offering Francisco Cordero 4 years for $42 million. If he has a bad year, well, it was only a one year contract

As a Brewer fan, I like this signing. Move Gagne into one of the worst divisions in baseball and I think he can thrive. He'll bridge the gap nicely until the young flamethrower Luis Pena is ready to close.

I'm not a red sox fan per say, but what I watched of Gagne this year, he just doesn't have it anymore. He has lost some of his velocity which has caused him to force more which has resulted in a loss of control.. The worst part is he realizes this and it has gotten into his head as well. Unless Gagne has a great offseason to re-discover himself, I think he has become Mark Wholers.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm not a red sox fan per say, but what I watched of Gagne this year, he just doesn't have it anymore. He has lost some of his velocity which has caused him to force more which has resulted in a loss of control.. The worst part is he realizes this and it has gotten into his head as well. Unless Gagne has a great offseason to re-discover himself, I think he has become Mark Wholers.

I saw him a few times with the Rangers and thought he looked fantastic. Granted, the fastball isn't in the upper nineties anymore but it was still in the 92-94 MPH range. The changeup was absolutely filthy. And that's what I've read was his problem was in Boston, an over-reliance on the fastball.

I think he did fine in his time with the Rangers and I'm not going to hold 18 2/3 bad innings against him. In fact, he still struck out over a man per inning with the Sox.

Move him to the inferior league, and a neutral park, and I still think he's got the stuff to be very effective. Not completely dominant like he used to be.

Like I said earlier, the alternatives for the Brewers were not enticing. Derrick Turnbow is good when he is good but absolutely horrible when he's off. There are really no other internal candidates and the asking price in players for guys like Joe Nathan and Chad Cordero were absurd. Washington wanted Rickie Weeks for Chad Cordero. Give me a friggin break. I'd rather spend money on Gagne then give up talented players.

[miked]

Big stage doesn't matter. When you have a 98 MPH fastball, it makes the changeup more devastating. When your fastball starts topping in the low 90s, the change doesn't look so good anymore. For reference see: Foulke, Keith.

[Atocep]

Just read this on FJM; 18 sportswriters were up for induction into the BWAA and 16 were selected. The two that didn't make it were Keith Law and Rob Neyer...

[ISiddiqui]

Hmmm... that's very interesting.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by miked

Big stage doesn't matter. When you have a 98 MPH fastball, it makes the changeup more devastating. When your fastball starts topping in the low 90s, the change doesn't look so good anymore. For reference see: Foulke, Keith.

When did Foulke throw 98 MPH?